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LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils

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  • pauldebono@rocketmail.com
    I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC and the LM311, are not
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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      I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC and the LM311, are not good enough. So are these commercial multimeter types.

      I came across the M3 or M-Cubed LCZR meter, which Monty, N5ESE, has reviewed and compared with the top, industry standard, the Philips PM6303 LCR Meter (now made by Fluke). Unfortunately , this meter kit is no longer in production. See: http://www.n5ese.com/M3LCR_meter.htm

      However, a Metacrawler search, came up with an updated version of this meter:
      (It is in French, but their sales department have an English version of the manual.)
      http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html

      Paul
    • Chris Wilson
      ... 13/11/2012 12:05 I know they are costly, and I have found support is pretty naff, but my AIM4170C antenna analyser is great for inductor verification. I
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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        >
        > I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low
        > RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC
        > and the LM311, are not good enough. So are these commercial multimeter types.

        > I came across the M3 or M-Cubed LCZR meter, which Monty, N5ESE, has
        > reviewed and compared with the top, industry standard, the Philips
        > PM6303 LCR Meter (now made by Fluke). Unfortunately , this meter kit
        > is no longer in production. See: http://www.n5ese.com/M3LCR_meter.htm

        > However, a Metacrawler search, came up with an updated version of this meter:
        > (It is in French, but their sales department have an English version of the manual.)
        > http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html

        > Paul

        >


        13/11/2012 12:05

        I know they are costly, and I have found support is pretty naff, but
        my AIM4170C antenna analyser is great for inductor verification. I can
        measure the effect of spreading the windings around the toroids, and
        do a sanity check if `er indoors interrupts me half way through
        winding a coil and I lose count of the turns. Plus, of course, it's
        amazingly useful for many other tasks. Its capabilities far exceed my
        knowledge, which makes it pretty future proof, too.

        --
        Best Regards,
        Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
      • Sid Boyce
        ... Before I had a LC meter I used the MFJ-295B successfully and before that over decades I just wound the toroids as specified. In the case of LPF s I used to
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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          On 13/11/12 12:08, Chris Wilson wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low
          >> RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC
          >> and the LM311, are not good enough. So are these commercial multimeter types.
          >> I came across the M3 or M-Cubed LCZR meter, which Monty, N5ESE, has
          >> reviewed and compared with the top, industry standard, the Philips
          >> PM6303 LCR Meter (now made by Fluke). Unfortunately , this meter kit
          >> is no longer in production. See: http://www.n5ese.com/M3LCR_meter.htm
          >> However, a Metacrawler search, came up with an updated version of this meter:
          >> (It is in French, but their sales department have an English version of the manual.)
          >> http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html
          >> Paul
          >
          > 13/11/2012 12:05
          >
          > I know they are costly, and I have found support is pretty naff, but
          > my AIM4170C antenna analyser is great for inductor verification. I can
          > measure the effect of spreading the windings around the toroids, and
          > do a sanity check if `er indoors interrupts me half way through
          > winding a coil and I lose count of the turns. Plus, of course, it's
          > amazingly useful for many other tasks. Its capabilities far exceed my
          > knowledge, which makes it pretty future proof, too.
          >
          Before I had a LC meter I used the MFJ-295B successfully and before that
          over decades I just wound the toroids as specified.
          In the case of LPF's I used to TX and check the output across the range
          and adjusted the turns by spreading or compressing until I got very
          reasonable results - the wound toroids were never far off.
          73 ... Sid.

          --
          Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
          Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
          Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
          Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
        • Rick Simpson
          The July/August 2012 issue of QEX featured an article titled A Linear Scale Millohm Meter that just uses three transistors. The article includes a PCB layout
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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            The July/August 2012 issue of QEX featured an article titled "A Linear Scale Millohm Meter" that just uses three transistors. The article includes a PCB layout and detailed discussion of the circuit. Let me know if you have trouble in finding the issue of QEX.
             
            Rick
            K3IND
          • Rick Simpson
            Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries! Rick
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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              Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
               
              Rick
            • Tim G3PJD
              Rick It s really quite simple. Henry s Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm s Radio is not. 73 Tim G3PJD/KN6WQ
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                Rick

                It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's Radio is not.

                73

                Tim
                G3PJD/KN6WQ

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                >
                > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
                >
                > Rick
                >
              • Rick Simpson
                Ohm s Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met with too much sales resistance. ... From: Tim G3PJD To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                  Ohm's Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met with too much sales resistance.
                   
                  :)
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Tim G3PJD
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:30 AM
                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils

                   

                  Rick

                  It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's Radio is not.

                  73

                  Tim
                  G3PJD/KN6WQ

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
                  >
                  > Rick
                  >

                • Tim G3PJD
                  Apart from that, they had little capacity. Sorry, it had to be said!
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                    Apart from that, they had little capacity.

                    Sorry, it had to be said!

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ohm's Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met with too much sales resistance.
                    >
                    > :)
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Tim G3PJD
                    > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:30 AM
                    > Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Rick
                    >
                    > It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's Radio is not.
                    >
                    > 73
                    >
                    > Tim
                    > G3PJD/KN6WQ
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
                    > >
                    > > Rick
                    > >
                    >
                  • KQ8M
                    They couldn t conduct business very well. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M Charter Member North Coast Contesters kq8m@kq8m.com AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org User Ports:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                      They couldn't conduct business very well.

                       

                      73,

                      Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                      Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                      kq8m@...

                       

                      AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                      User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                      Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                       

                      From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim G3PJD
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:38 AM
                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils

                       

                       

                      Apart from that, they had little capacity.

                      Sorry, it had to be said!

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ohm's Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met with too much sales resistance.
                      >
                      > :)
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Tim G3PJD
                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:30 AM
                      > Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Rick
                      >
                      > It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's Radio is not.
                      >
                      > 73
                      >
                      > Tim
                      > G3PJD/KN6WQ
                      >
                      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
                      > >
                      > > Rick
                      > >
                      >

                    • junius fox
                      Chris, AADE makes a LC meter that is very accurate. I think that Neil s name for AADE is almost all digital electronics (?) Junius ... From: Chris Wilson
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                        Chris, AADE makes a LC meter that is very accurate. I think that Neil 's
                        name for AADE is almost all digital electronics (?)

                        Junius
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Chris Wilson" <chris@...>
                        To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:08 AM
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils


                        >
                        >
                        >>
                        >> I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low
                        >> RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC
                        >> and the LM311, are not good enough. So are these commercial multimeter
                        >> types.
                        >
                        >> I came across the M3 or M-Cubed LCZR meter, which Monty, N5ESE, has
                        >> reviewed and compared with the top, industry standard, the Philips
                        >> PM6303 LCR Meter (now made by Fluke). Unfortunately , this meter kit
                        >> is no longer in production. See: http://www.n5ese.com/M3LCR_meter.htm
                        >
                        >> However, a Metacrawler search, came up with an updated version of this
                        >> meter:
                        >> (It is in French, but their sales department have an English version of
                        >> the manual.)
                        >> http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html
                        >
                        >> Paul
                        >
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > 13/11/2012 12:05
                        >
                        > I know they are costly, and I have found support is pretty naff, but
                        > my AIM4170C antenna analyser is great for inductor verification. I can
                        > measure the effect of spreading the windings around the toroids, and
                        > do a sanity check if `er indoors interrupts me half way through
                        > winding a coil and I lose count of the turns. Plus, of course, it's
                        > amazingly useful for many other tasks. Its capabilities far exceed my
                        > knowledge, which makes it pretty future proof, too.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Best Regards,
                        > Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Malti
                        There is nothing special about the AADE. The circuit is identical to the scores of PIC and Lm311 based kits When it comes to very low inductances for RF,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                          There is nothing special about the  AADE. The circuit is identical to the scores of PIC and Lm311   based kits

                           When it comes to very low inductances for RF, all the LM311 and PIC based L meters are not that accurate. For C , may be another story !

                          Paul

                          On 13 November 2012 18:05, junius fox <jfox05@...> wrote:
                          Chris, AADE makes a LC meter that is very accurate.  I think that Neil 's
                          name for AADE is almost all digital electronics (?)

                          Junius
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Chris Wilson" <chris@...>
                          To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:08 AM
                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils


                          >
                          >
                          >>
                          >> I am searching for a good L meter, that can measure low to very low
                          >> RF inductances. The various kits and models around based on a PIC
                          >> and the LM311, are not good enough. So are these commercial multimeter
                          >> types.
                          >
                          >> I came across the M3 or M-Cubed LCZR meter, which Monty, N5ESE, has
                          >> reviewed and compared with the top, industry standard, the Philips
                          >> PM6303 LCR Meter (now made by Fluke). Unfortunately , this meter kit
                          >> is no longer in production. See: http://www.n5ese.com/M3LCR_meter.htm
                          >
                          >> However, a Metacrawler search, came up with an updated version of this
                          >> meter:
                          >> (It is in French, but their sales department have an English version of
                          >> the manual.)
                          >> http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html
                          >
                          >> Paul
                          >
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > 13/11/2012 12:05
                          >
                          > I know they are costly, and I have found support is pretty naff, but
                          > my AIM4170C antenna analyser is great for inductor verification. I can
                          > measure the effect of spreading the windings around the toroids, and
                          > do a sanity check if `er indoors interrupts me half way through
                          > winding a coil and I lose count of the turns. Plus, of course, it's
                          > amazingly useful for many other tasks. Its capabilities far exceed my
                          > knowledge, which makes it pretty future proof, too.
                          >
                          > --
                          >       Best Regards,
                          >                   Chris Wilson.   2E0ILY
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >



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                        • R. R. (Robby) Robson
                          And exactly what induced you to say that? ... -- Cheers, Robby Richard R. (Robby) Robson LTC USA (RET) www.wb5rvz.com www.wb5rvz.org www.rafino.org
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                            And exactly what induced you to say that?

                            On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Tim G3PJD <jet.noise@...> wrote:
                             

                            Apart from that, they had little capacity.

                            Sorry, it had to be said!



                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Ohm's Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met with too much sales resistance.
                            >
                            > :)
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Tim G3PJD
                            > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:30 AM
                            > Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Rick
                            >
                            > It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's Radio is not.
                            >
                            > 73
                            >
                            > Tim
                            > G3PJD/KN6WQ
                            >
                            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and henries!
                            > >
                            > > Rick
                            > >
                            >




                            --
                            Cheers,
                            Robby
                             
                            Richard R. (Robby) Robson
                            LTC USA (RET)

                          • Brad Thompson
                            ... Hello, Robby and the group-- IIRC, the capacitor salesforce was the first to be discharged. That occurred the morning after the group attended a party
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                              On 11/13/2012 7:24 PM, R. R. (Robby) Robson wrote:
                              > And exactly what induced you to say that?

                              Hello, Robby and the group--

                              IIRC, the capacitor salesforce was the first to be discharged.

                              That occurred the morning after the group attended a party
                              during which copious quantities of alcoholic beverages were
                              consumed, leaving the group with massive hangovers and
                              tardy arrivals at the shop. The manager asked, "Wire you
                              insulate?"....<g>

                              73--

                              Brad AA1IP
                              ************************************************************
                              >
                              > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Tim G3PJD <jet.noise@...
                              > <mailto:jet.noise@...>> wrote:
                              >
                              > __
                              >
                              > Apart from that, they had little capacity.
                              >
                              > Sorry, it had to be said!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Rick Simpson"
                              > <goatguy101@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Ohm's Radio closed their doors some time ago. They said they met
                              > with too much sales resistance.
                              > >
                              > > :)
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Tim G3PJD
                              > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:30 AM
                              > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: LCR meter to measure the Ensemble coils
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Rick
                              > >
                              > > It's really quite simple. Henry's Radio is in Edgware Road. Ohm's
                              > Radio is not.
                              > >
                              > > 73
                              > >
                              > > Tim
                              > > G3PJD/KN6WQ
                              > >
                              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Rick Simpson" <goatguy101@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Cancel that. I really DO know the difference between ohms and
                              > henries!
                              > > >
                              > > > Rick
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Cheers,
                              > Robby
                              > Richard R. (Robby) Robson
                              > LTC USA (RET)
                              > www.wb5rvz.com <http://www.wb5rvz.com>
                              > www.wb5rvz.org <http://www.wb5rvz.org>
                              > www.rafino.org <http://www.rafino.org>
                              >
                              >
                            • rifkum
                              Quote-- When it comes to very low inductances for RF, all the LM311 and PIC based L meters are not that accurate. For C , may be another story ! End Quote.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 13, 2012
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                                Quote-->>
                                When it comes to very low inductances for RF, all the LM311 and PIC based L meters are not that accurate. For C , may be another story !
                                End Quote.

                                as I wound each toroid for my Ensemble RX II, I measured each one and found the measured inductance to be within 1-2% of what the build plans said they should be. I doubt that was a coincidence.

                                I also measured most all of the capacitors and found them equally within tollerance.

                                Why would you say the pic/comparator based meters are inaccurate??

                                What kind of accuracy do you believe one needs to build a radio reciever?

                                For me... the $27 (delivered) I spent on my ebay LCR meter (see other recent thread) is one little piece of test equipment I am VERY pleased with.

                                The re-assurance that I had not made an error while winding the toroids was well worth it. It made building the kit more enjoyable. And now I can be more certain when I dig through my junk box I can test/verify that old capicator or inductor.

                                I regularly work with test equipment at work that cost 20,000 to 40,000 dollars, But for the Radio hobbiest I think the pic based LCR meters are actually VERY adequate.

                                just my .02

                                Dwight
                                N7KBC
                              • Malti
                                Look what I found ! If what they claim is correct, both the price and performance from small rf coils is the ideal
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 14, 2012
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                                  Look what I found ! If what they claim is correct, both the price and performance from small rf coils is the ideal

                                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LC301-SMD-nH-inductance-tester-meter-/190649692728?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3450789443300401684%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D190649692728%26


                                  Paul

                                  On 14 November 2012 05:00, rifkum <rifkum@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Quote-->>
                                  When it comes to very low inductances for RF, all the LM311 and PIC based L meters are not that accurate. For C , may be another story !
                                  End Quote.

                                  as I wound each toroid for my Ensemble RX II, I measured each one and found the measured inductance to be within 1-2% of what the build plans said they should be. I doubt that was a coincidence.

                                  I also measured most all of the capacitors and found them equally within tollerance.

                                  Why would you say the pic/comparator based meters are inaccurate??

                                  What kind of accuracy do you believe one needs to build a radio reciever?

                                  For me... the $27 (delivered) I spent on my ebay LCR meter (see other recent thread) is one little piece of test equipment I am VERY pleased with.

                                  The re-assurance that I had not made an error while winding the toroids was well worth it. It made building the kit more enjoyable. And now I can be more certain when I dig through my junk box I can test/verify that old capicator or inductor.

                                  I regularly work with test equipment at work that cost 20,000 to 40,000 dollars, But for the Radio hobbiest I think the pic based LCR meters are actually VERY adequate.

                                  just my .02

                                  Dwight
                                  N7KBC


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