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Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only

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  • Alan
    ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only ... Dave, Unfortunately in a list like this confusion reigns! We get posts
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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      ----- Original Message -----
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only


      > The following two paragraphs from from
      > http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/ensemble/07_opamp.htm
      >
      > "In both the RX op amp and TX QSE sections, the jumper links on the
      > I/Q input and outputs should ideally be fitted crossed over....

      Dave,

      Unfortunately in a list like this confusion reigns!
      We get posts from those that understand and from those that think they understand.
      At the time Robby wrote that, when the Ensemble was introduced, there was a LOT of confusion, some were convinced their soundcard
      L/R was reversed from the normal standard. Perhaps it needs re-writing.

      My Ensembles have TX crossed, RX straight.
      I confirm that this works with all versions of PSDR and Rocky. I've just looked at Rocky, it is set Left/Right = Q/I which I presume
      is the way it works. I have used PSK TX but not recently......
      Right, seeing other comments.
      Rocky 3.6 Correct.
      Rocky 3.7 Correct.
      PSDR has always been correct for all versions, from 1.9 to 2.4.
      Correct means that it TXs on the same frequency as RX.

      > provides compatibility with all versions of PowerSDR. For Rocky and
      > Winrad it is necessary to use the 'swap IQ' functions in their set up.
      > If you jumper them straight across fine for Rocky and Winrad, but you
      > will not be able to use any version of PSDR. (Author wired for Rocky)"

      In this configuration RX/TX will not be correct for PSDR or any software except those that have separate RX and TX switches.

      > "Some builders (author included) have encountered issues in this setup
      > and siscovered that the only the TX leads should be crossed, leaving
      > the RX leads uncrossed. Be prepared to change these should you
      > encounter this issue."

      Robby got it right in the end. But some were not convinced.

      >
      > I own a SoftRock RXTX Ensemble and wiring them as per the first
      > paragraph, with both crossed, left me in a situation where Rocky was
      > impossible to set up.
      Yes.

      Making the change in the second paragraph allows
      > use on Rocky, but PowerSDR was impossible.

      TX crossed? Now this I do not understand. This is the correct way.

      >
      > I have tested many different applications with the Peaberry and would
      > love a design that didn't require i/Q reversal. Unfortunately, this
      > doesn't seem possible when two very popular applications appear in
      > direct conflict with each other and are inflexible with their
      > configuration.

      David, if this is really true then surely there would have been something said in the 5 years I have been with this group?
      I repeat, once the IQ is setup for PSDR then just the software switches on ALL other software is all that is required.

      >
      > To everyone who transmits with both PowerSDR and Rocky on a RXTX
      > Ensemble: What versions are you using? How are your jumpers set up?
      >

      Let's hope we get some other input.....
      Which seems just as confusing! I just do not understand how any extra crossovers are needed.

      73 Alan G4ZFQ
    • Dave Watson
      David, Did you look at your output on another SDR radio while you were transmitting? I couldn t get any PSK responses when I first started using my Peaberry on
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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        David,

         

        Did you look at your output on another SDR radio while you were transmitting? I couldn't get any PSK responses when I first started using my Peaberry on PowerSDR 2.4.4 so I fired up a SoftRockRXTX on another computer (antenna attenuated) to see what my signal looked like. To my surprise I was on the wrong side of the center line. I switched to LSB on the SoftRock and my PSK decoder started decoding my transmission. No wonder nobody replied to me. I was below them. So I switched the SoftRock back to USB and the Peaberry to LSB and restarted my calling CQ. The SoftRock decoded my transmission on USB and I started getting responses to my calling CQ. I made about 30 contacts that evening and had reports for a solid clean signal. I've been flipping USB/LSB since I found that solution.

         

        Dave (W4DJW)

         

        From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan
        Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53 PM
        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only

         

         


        ----- Original Message -----
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only

        > The following two paragraphs from from
        > http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/ensemble/07_opamp.htm
        >
        > "In both the RX op amp and TX QSE sections, the jumper links on the
        > I/Q input and outputs should ideally be fitted crossed over....

        Dave,

        Unfortunately in a list like this confusion reigns!
        We get posts from those that understand and from those that think they understand.
        At the time Robby wrote that, when the Ensemble was introduced, there was a LOT of confusion, some were convinced their soundcard
        L/R was reversed from the normal standard. Perhaps it needs re-writing.

        My Ensembles have TX crossed, RX straight.
        I confirm that this works with all versions of PSDR and Rocky. I've just looked at Rocky, it is set Left/Right = Q/I which I presume
        is the way it works. I have used PSK TX but not recently......
        Right, seeing other comments.
        Rocky 3.6 Correct.
        Rocky 3.7 Correct.
        PSDR has always been correct for all versions, from 1.9 to 2.4.
        Correct means that it TXs on the same frequency as RX.

        > provides compatibility with all versions of PowerSDR. For Rocky and
        > Winrad it is necessary to use the 'swap IQ' functions in their set up.
        > If you jumper them straight across fine for Rocky and Winrad, but you
        > will not be able to use any version of PSDR. (Author wired for Rocky)"

        In this configuration RX/TX will not be correct for PSDR or any software except those that have separate RX and TX switches.

        > "Some builders (author included) have encountered issues in this setup
        > and siscovered that the only the TX leads should be crossed, leaving
        > the RX leads uncrossed. Be prepared to change these should you
        > encounter this issue."

        Robby got it right in the end. But some were not convinced.

        >
        > I own a SoftRock RXTX Ensemble and wiring them as per the first
        > paragraph, with both crossed, left me in a situation where Rocky was
        > impossible to set up.
        Yes.

        Making the change in the second paragraph allows
        > use on Rocky, but PowerSDR was impossible.

        TX crossed? Now this I do not understand. This is the correct way.

        >
        > I have tested many different applications with the Peaberry and would
        > love a design that didn't require i/Q reversal. Unfortunately, this
        > doesn't seem possible when two very popular applications appear in
        > direct conflict with each other and are inflexible with their
        > configuration.

        David, if this is really true then surely there would have been something said in the 5 years I have been with this group?
        I repeat, once the IQ is setup for PSDR then just the software switches on ALL other software is all that is required.

        >
        > To everyone who transmits with both PowerSDR and Rocky on a RXTX
        > Ensemble: What versions are you using? How are your jumpers set up?
        >

        Let's hope we get some other input.....
        Which seems just as confusing! I just do not understand how any extra crossovers are needed.

        73 Alan G4ZFQ

      • David Turnbull
        Dave, I use the bandscope from an analog radio, not an SDR. It s wide and sensitive enough to show the main signal, LO, and image all at once. This eliminates
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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          Dave, I use the bandscope from an analog radio, not an SDR. It's wide and sensitive enough to show the main signal, LO, and image all at once. This eliminates any possible misconfiguration of the other SDR or misinterpretation of what is where. Switching USB/LSB won't flip you to the other side of the center, you would have to change the LO for that. Something else is going on with your situation.

          Alan, I just tested my RXTX again with PowerSDR. Straight on RX and crossed on TX is indeed the correct setting. I have configured the Peaberry to match this by default. Multiple customers have reported PowerSDR working and needing to reverse receive to get Rocky 3.7 working. I have needed the same. My RXTX also needs a crossover cable for Rocky. John has stated that he needs a crossover cable. You and Jose say you don't.

          Using the default Peaberry settings, and the straight on RX and crossed on TX for RXTX, I can receive properly with Rocky 3.7 when set to Left/Right=Q/I. However the transmission is on the wrong side of center. If I change to Left/Right=I/Q then the receiver is backwards and the transmission is correct. Are you seeing this behavior, or does transmit stay the same when you switch this setting?

          For a default Peaberry, WSPR in I/Q mode needs no reversal and HDSDR needs RX reversal but not TX reversal.

          We really need to hear from more people who transmit using both applications and have proper test equipment. 

          73 David AE9RB

        • Dave Watson
          David, I just retested on a Kenwood TS-2000 and a Flex-5000A. No possibility of misconfiguration there as I m simply listening to what is being transmitted. On
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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            David,

            I just retested on a Kenwood TS-2000 and a Flex-5000A. No possibility of misconfiguration there as I'm simply listening to what is being transmitted. On the TS-2000, I hear the signal on LSB and I don't hear the signal on USB. On the Flex, I see the signal below the center frequency on USB and above the center frequency on LSB.

            When you test with PowerSDR are you using the Flex built executable v2.4.4 with TNF capability?

            Dave (W4DJW)

             

            From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Turnbull
            Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 6:16 PM
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only

             

             

            Dave, I use the bandscope from an analog radio, not an SDR. It's wide and sensitive enough to show the main signal, LO, and image all at once. This eliminates any possible misconfiguration of the other SDR or misinterpretation of what is where. Switching USB/LSB won't flip you to the other side of the center, you would have to change the LO for that. Something else is going on with your situation.

             

            Alan, I just tested my RXTX again with PowerSDR. Straight on RX and crossed on TX is indeed the correct setting. I have configured the Peaberry to match this by default. Multiple customers have reported PowerSDR working and needing to reverse receive to get Rocky 3.7 working. I have needed the same. My RXTX also needs a crossover cable for Rocky. John has stated that he needs a crossover cable. You and Jose say you don't.

             

            Using the default Peaberry settings, and the straight on RX and crossed on TX for RXTX, I can receive properly with Rocky 3.7 when set to Left/Right=Q/I. However the transmission is on the wrong side of center. If I change to Left/Right=I/Q then the receiver is backwards and the transmission is correct. Are you seeing this behavior, or does transmit stay the same when you switch this setting?

             

            For a default Peaberry, WSPR in I/Q mode needs no reversal and HDSDR needs RX reversal but not TX reversal.

             

            We really need to hear from more people who transmit using both applications and have proper test equipment. 

             

            73 David AE9RB

             

          • David Turnbull
            Dave, I m using the executable built by SV1EIA that was in the zip fie for making 2.4.4 work for homebrew. When you toggle the TS-2000 from USB to LSB then you
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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              Dave,

              I'm using the executable built by SV1EIA that was in the zip fie for making 2.4.4 work for homebrew.

              When you toggle the TS-2000 from USB to LSB then you are tuning in a completely different 3kHz of spectrum. I think you're mistaking beat frequency for the local oscillator. The line displayed PowerSDR is not the LO or center frequency, it is the beat frequency. The LO in PowerSDR is always 8kHz below the beat frequency. This is very different from traditional radios.

              It sound like your Si570 may be mis-calibrated. You can use CFGSR to set the calibration and make sure all your applications are reset to defaults or zero.

              73 David AE9RB

              On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Dave Watson <davewatson@...> wrote:


              David,

              I just retested on a Kenwood TS-2000 and a Flex-5000A. No possibility of misconfiguration there as I'm simply listening to what is being transmitted. On the TS-2000, I hear the signal on LSB and I don't hear the signal on USB. On the Flex, I see the signal below the center frequency on USB and above the center frequency on LSB.

              When you test with PowerSDR are you using the Flex built executable v2.4.4 with TNF capability?

              Dave (W4DJW)


            • Dave Watson
              David, I did use CFGSR to calibrate for receive but not for transmit. I think you have identified the issue. I may be too low on TX in USB and too high on TX
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 31, 2012
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                David,

                 

                I did use CFGSR to calibrate for receive but not for transmit. I think you have identified the issue. I may be too low on TX in USB and too high on TX in LSB. If that is the case, that should be a lot easier than reprogramming. Thanks for putting up me figuring this out.

                 

                Dave (W4DJW)

                 

                From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Turnbull
                Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:24 PM
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only

                 

                 

                Dave,

                 

                I'm using the executable built by SV1EIA that was in the zip fie for making 2.4.4 work for homebrew.

                 

                When you toggle the TS-2000 from USB to LSB then you are tuning in a completely different 3kHz of spectrum. I think you're mistaking beat frequency for the local oscillator. The line displayed PowerSDR is not the LO or center frequency, it is the beat frequency. The LO in PowerSDR is always 8kHz below the beat frequency. This is very different from traditional radios.

                 

                It sound like your Si570 may be mis-calibrated. You can use CFGSR to set the calibration and make sure all your applications are reset to defaults or zero.

                 

                73 David AE9RB

                 

                On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Dave Watson <davewatson@...> wrote:

                 

                David,

                I just retested on a Kenwood TS-2000 and a Flex-5000A. No possibility of misconfiguration there as I'm simply listening to what is being transmitted. On the TS-2000, I hear the signal on LSB and I don't hear the signal on USB. On the Flex, I see the signal below the center frequency on USB and above the center frequency on LSB.

                When you test with PowerSDR are you using the Flex built executable v2.4.4 with TNF capability?

                Dave (W4DJW)

                 

              • Alan
                ... From: David Turnbull Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only ... And the Peaberry does TX on the same sideband as
                Message 7 of 28 , Nov 1, 2012
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "David Turnbull"
                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Peaberry using PowerSDR2.4.4 I/Q Reverse on TX only


                  >
                  > Alan, I just tested my RXTX again with PowerSDR. Straight on RX and crossed
                  > on TX is indeed the correct setting. I have configured the Peaberry to
                  > match this by default.

                  And the Peaberry does TX on the same sideband as RX?

                  Multiple customers have reported PowerSDR working
                  > and needing to reverse receive to get Rocky 3.7 working. I have needed the
                  > same. My RXTX also needs a crossover cable for Rocky. John has stated that
                  > he needs a crossover cable. You and Jose say you don't.

                  From what Dave says this seems as if the Peaberry is TXing on the wrong sideband. Not with crossed IQ?
                  I have re-checked both versions of Rocky and confirm it does TX PSK on USB, just above the tuned frequency. But not the other side
                  of centre.

                  Confusion about IQ or QI has been with us for a long time. Switching Rocky when transmitting has only appeared with the Peaberry.

                  The Ensemble with crossed TX jumpers is the same as early Softrocks. With WSPR-IQ Reverse TX IQ needs to be ticked.

                  73 Alan G4ZFQ



                  > Using the default Peaberry settings, and the straight on RX and crossed on
                  > TX for RXTX, I can receive properly with Rocky 3.7 when set to
                  > Left/Right=Q/I. However the transmission is on the wrong side of center. If
                  > I change to Left/Right=I/Q then the receiver is backwards and the
                  > transmission is correct. Are you seeing this behavior, or does transmit
                  > stay the same when you switch this setting?
                  >
                  > For a default Peaberry, WSPR in I/Q mode needs no reversal and HDSDR needs
                  > RX reversal but not TX reversal.
                  >
                  > We really need to hear from more people who transmit using both
                  > applications and have proper test equipment.
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