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Hardrock 50 driver amp relay question

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  • Chris Wilson
    19/09/2012 09:04 Has anyone written up detailed instructions for adding a transmit / receive relay to the 5 Watt driver stage kit that was recently offered?
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 19, 2012
      19/09/2012 09:04

      Has anyone written up detailed instructions for adding a transmit /
      receive relay to the 5 Watt driver stage kit that was recently
      offered? Mine arrived incredibly quickly here in the UK and I would
      like to get the rest of the bits together to commence finishing it.
      Thanks.

      --
      Best Regards,
      Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
      mailto: chris@...
    • John Williams
      Chris, I was working on an amp when I found out about Jim s driver board. I have a schematic that is very similar to Jim s design (and very similar to the amp
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 19, 2012
      Chris,

      I was working on an amp when I found out about Jim's driver board. I
      have a schematic that is very similar to Jim's design (and very similar
      to the amp in the Mobo). I added a portion of the circuit that feeds 5V
      to the bias side using S12V or /PTT as well as switches a relay for
      RX/TX. I plan to use one of those kitsandparts.com prototype boards to
      wire this and then use molex connectors to connect it to the driver
      board. Attached is my schematic. Since this has not been breadboarded
      yet, it may have errors, so comments are welcome.

      I bought 2 boards, 1 for a standalone 5W amp and one for a driver for my
      second run amp.

      John - ke5ssh

      On 9/19/2012 3:11 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
      >
      > 19/09/2012 09:04
      >
      > Has anyone written up detailed instructions for adding a transmit /
      > receive relay to the 5 Watt driver stage kit that was recently
      > offered? Mine arrived incredibly quickly here in the UK and I would
      > like to get the rest of the bits together to commence finishing it.
      > Thanks.
      >

      --

      John Williams

      KE5SSH - ham since 2007
      WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
    • jim.veatch@verizon.net
      The next run of PCB s that we do will have an updated driver PCB which will add unpopulated areas for: 1. T/R relay 2. On board bias regulator and switching 3.
      Message 3 of 11 , Sep 19, 2012
        The next run of PCB's that we do will have an updated driver PCB which will add unpopulated areas for:

        1. T/R relay
        2. On board bias regulator and switching
        3. 5 element lowpass filters

        I'll try to get updated XFMR to show how to wind it 1:3 instead of 1:2 to get 10 watts output.

        The schematic for the driver is posted here:

        https://sites.google.com/site/hardrock50beta/home/using-the-driver-as-a-5w-pa

        I know that it doesn't directly answer your question but it may shed some light and I'll be hapy to address specific issues.

        73's
        Jim WA2EUJ

        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
        >
        > Chris,
        >
        > I was working on an amp when I found out about Jim's driver board. I
        > have a schematic that is very similar to Jim's design (and very similar
        > to the amp in the Mobo). I added a portion of the circuit that feeds 5V
        > to the bias side using S12V or /PTT as well as switches a relay for
        > RX/TX. I plan to use one of those kitsandparts.com prototype boards to
        > wire this and then use molex connectors to connect it to the driver
        > board. Attached is my schematic. Since this has not been breadboarded
        > yet, it may have errors, so comments are welcome.
        >
        > I bought 2 boards, 1 for a standalone 5W amp and one for a driver for my
        > second run amp.
        >
        > John - ke5ssh
        >
        > On 9/19/2012 3:11 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
        > >
        > > 19/09/2012 09:04
        > >
        > > Has anyone written up detailed instructions for adding a transmit /
        > > receive relay to the 5 Watt driver stage kit that was recently
        > > offered? Mine arrived incredibly quickly here in the UK and I would
        > > like to get the rest of the bits together to commence finishing it.
        > > Thanks.
        > >
        >
        > --
        >
        > John Williams
        >
        > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
        > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
        >
      • John Williams
        Hi Jim, Can you explain the bias switching? John ... -- John Williams KE5SSH - ham since 2007 WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
        Message 4 of 11 , Sep 19, 2012
          Hi Jim,

          Can you explain the bias switching?

          John

          On 9/19/2012 9:15 AM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
           

          The next run of PCB's that we do will have an updated driver PCB which will add unpopulated areas for:

          1. T/R relay
          2. On board bias regulator and switching
          3. 5 element lowpass filters

          I'll try to get updated XFMR to show how to wind it 1:3 instead of 1:2 to get 10 watts output.

          The schematic for the driver is posted here:

          https://sites.google.com/site/hardrock50beta/home/using-the-driver-as-a-5w-pa

          I know that it doesn't directly answer your question but it may shed some light and I'll be hapy to address specific issues.

          73's
          Jim WA2EUJ

          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
          >
          > Chris,
          >
          > I was working on an amp when I found out about Jim's driver board. I
          > have a schematic that is very similar to Jim's design (and very similar
          > to the amp in the Mobo). I added a portion of the circuit that feeds 5V
          > to the bias side using S12V or /PTT as well as switches a relay for
          > RX/TX. I plan to use one of those kitsandparts.com prototype boards to
          > wire this and then use molex connectors to connect it to the driver
          > board. Attached is my schematic. Since this has not been breadboarded
          > yet, it may have errors, so comments are welcome.
          >
          > I bought 2 boards, 1 for a standalone 5W amp and one for a driver for my
          > second run amp.
          >
          > John - ke5ssh
          >
          > On 9/19/2012 3:11 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
          > >
          > > 19/09/2012 09:04
          > >
          > > Has anyone written up detailed instructions for adding a transmit /
          > > receive relay to the 5 Watt driver stage kit that was recently
          > > offered? Mine arrived incredibly quickly here in the UK and I would
          > > like to get the rest of the bits together to commence finishing it.
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          >
          > --
          >
          > John Williams
          >
          > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
          > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
          >


          -- 
          
          John Williams
          
          KE5SSH - ham since 2007
          WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
          
        • jim.veatch@verizon.net
          Hi John, The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my experience you can t quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to work fine. In
          Message 5 of 11 , Sep 20, 2012
            Hi John,

            The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of putting 5V across VR201during TX.

            One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201, (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground through a 1K resistor (R209).

            I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will work with this circuitry.

            73's
            Jim WA2EUJ

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jim,
            >
            > Can you explain the bias switching?
            >
            > John
            >
          • John Williams
            We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt... so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the softrock might be
            Message 6 of 11 , Sep 20, 2012
              We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt... so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V directly into the board.

              Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v gell-cell vs. a 13.8V supply?

              John - ke5ssh

              On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
               

              Hi John,

              The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of putting 5V across VR201during TX.

              One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201, (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground through a 1K resistor (R209).

              I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will work with this circuitry.

              73's
              Jim WA2EUJ

              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jim,
              >
              > Can you explain the bias switching?
              >
              > John
              >


              -- 
              
              John Williams
              
              KE5SSH - ham since 2007
              WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
              
            • jim.veatch@verizon.net
              Hi John, Thanks I ll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is regulated and shouldn t come out of regulation until the voltage drops below 10V, this
              Message 7 of 11 , Sep 21, 2012
                Hi John,

                Thanks I'll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is regulated and shouldn't come out of regulation until the voltage drops below 10V, this could be improved at the cost of an increase of a few mA of idle current. Don't worry about it too much because my experience with these MOSFETs is that they aren't too sensitive to IDQ anyway.

                73's
                Jim WA2EUJ

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
                >
                > We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt...
                > so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the
                > softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V directly
                > into the board.
                >
                > Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v gell-cell
                > vs. a 13.8V supply?
                >
                > John - ke5ssh
                >
                > On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi John,
                > >
                > > The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my
                > > experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to
                > > work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the
                > > Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using
                > > the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of
                > > putting 5V across VR201during TX.
                > >
                > > One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201,
                > > (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can
                > > supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I
                > > use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the
                > > 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground
                > > through a 1K resistor (R209).
                > >
                > > I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may
                > > QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will
                > > work with this circuitry.
                > >
                > > 73's
                > > Jim WA2EUJ
                > >
                > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Jim,
                > > >
                > > > Can you explain the bias switching?
                > > >
                > > > John
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                >
                > John Williams
                >
                > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                >
              • jim.veatch@verizon.net
                Hi John, On the new driver PCB if you populate Q7 with a 2N2222 or 2N3904 NPN transistor and swap E and C, use a 220 ohm for R209 then the amplifier will key
                Message 8 of 11 , Sep 21, 2012
                  Hi John,

                  On the new driver PCB if you populate Q7 with a 2N2222 or 2N3904 NPN transistor and swap E and C, use a 220 ohm for R209 then the amplifier will key up with 12V applied to PTT in rather than pulling it to ground.

                  Another thing to think about with running on low voltage is power output, it's related to Vd squared.

                  Po = Vd^2/(2*Zd)

                  With a 1:3 T201 winding we're lookng at a Zd = 50/9 = 5.55 ohms

                  So at 13.8V the max power is 17.1 watts, at 11V a max of only 11W.

                  The actual output is less because the formula doesn't account for various losses around the circuit. With 13.8V I was seeing at least 10W nice and linear as much as 13 or 14W if you don't mind compression (CW, FSK). With 11V these figures will be lower.

                  73's
                  Jim WA2EUJ

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi John,
                  >
                  > Thanks I'll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is regulated and shouldn't come out of regulation until the voltage drops below 10V, this could be improved at the cost of an increase of a few mA of idle current. Don't worry about it too much because my experience with these MOSFETs is that they aren't too sensitive to IDQ anyway.
                  >
                  > 73's
                  > Jim WA2EUJ
                  >
                  > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt...
                  > > so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the
                  > > softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V directly
                  > > into the board.
                  > >
                  > > Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v gell-cell
                  > > vs. a 13.8V supply?
                  > >
                  > > John - ke5ssh
                  > >
                  > > On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi John,
                  > > >
                  > > > The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my
                  > > > experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to
                  > > > work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the
                  > > > Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using
                  > > > the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of
                  > > > putting 5V across VR201during TX.
                  > > >
                  > > > One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201,
                  > > > (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can
                  > > > supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I
                  > > > use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the
                  > > > 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground
                  > > > through a 1K resistor (R209).
                  > > >
                  > > > I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may
                  > > > QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will
                  > > > work with this circuitry.
                  > > >
                  > > > 73's
                  > > > Jim WA2EUJ
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Jim,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Can you explain the bias switching?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > John
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > >
                  > > John Williams
                  > >
                  > > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                  > > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                  > >
                  >
                • John Williams
                  Jim, thanks for the change, will give it a try... my end concept is to house this in a k5mh case to match my 40/30/20 rxtx and try to fill the holes to make it
                  Message 9 of 11 , Sep 21, 2012
                    Jim,
                    thanks for the change, will give it a try...

                    my end concept is to house this in a k5mh case to match my 40/30/20 rxtx and try to fill the holes to make it look like a companion amp. Can I build the filter with 3 caps and 1 toroid like the 50W 2nd run amp and use it for 20/30 operation? I never seem to run on 40 but if I do I can make an external filter for that.

                    I think you said D201 is a 5.1V Zener. What is R208 value?

                    Are you winding T201 bifilar to make the 3:1 transformer?

                    John
                    On 9/21/2012 10:15 AM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                     

                    Hi John,

                    On the new driver PCB if you populate Q7 with a 2N2222 or 2N3904 NPN transistor and swap E and C, use a 220 ohm for R209 then the amplifier will key up with 12V applied to PTT in rather than pulling it to ground.

                    Another thing to think about with running on low voltage is power output, it's related to Vd squared.

                    Po = Vd^2/(2*Zd)

                    With a 1:3 T201 winding we're lookng at a Zd = 50/9 = 5.55 ohms

                    So at 13.8V the max power is 17.1 watts, at 11V a max of only 11W.

                    The actual output is less because the formula doesn't account for various losses around the circuit. With 13.8V I was seeing at least 10W nice and linear as much as 13 or 14W if you don't mind compression (CW, FSK). With 11V these figures will be lower.

                    73's
                    Jim WA2EUJ

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi John,
                    >
                    > Thanks I'll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is regulated and shouldn't come out of regulation until the voltage drops below 10V, this could be improved at the cost of an increase of a few mA of idle current. Don't worry about it too much because my experience with these MOSFETs is that they aren't too sensitive to IDQ anyway.
                    >
                    > 73's
                    > Jim WA2EUJ
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt...
                    > > so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the
                    > > softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V directly
                    > > into the board.
                    > >
                    > > Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v gell-cell
                    > > vs. a 13.8V supply?
                    > >
                    > > John - ke5ssh
                    > >
                    > > On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi John,
                    > > >
                    > > > The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my
                    > > > experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to
                    > > > work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the
                    > > > Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using
                    > > > the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of
                    > > > putting 5V across VR201during TX.
                    > > >
                    > > > One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201,
                    > > > (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can
                    > > > supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I
                    > > > use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the
                    > > > 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground
                    > > > through a 1K resistor (R209).
                    > > >
                    > > > I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may
                    > > > QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will
                    > > > work with this circuitry.
                    > > >
                    > > > 73's
                    > > > Jim WA2EUJ
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Jim,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Can you explain the bias switching?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > John
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > >
                    > > John Williams
                    > >
                    > > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                    > > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                    > >
                    >


                    -- 
                    
                    John Williams
                    
                    KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                    WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                    
                  • John Greusel
                     John, That is an excellent idea to use an additional case. I ll bet you could order one with no holes if you were willing to wait a bit. John KC9OJV
                    Message 10 of 11 , Sep 21, 2012

                       John,

                      That is an excellent idea to use an additional case.
                      I'll bet you could order one with no holes if you were willing to wait a bit.

                      John
                      KC9OJV




                      From: John Williams <KE5SSH@...>
                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:21 PM
                      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Hardrock 50 driver amp relay question

                       
                      Jim,
                      thanks for the change, will give it a try...

                      my end concept is to house this in a k5mh case to match my 40/30/20 rxtx and try to fill the holes to make it look like a companion amp. Can I build the filter with 3 caps and 1 toroid like the 50W 2nd run amp and use it for 20/30 operation? I never seem to run on 40 but if I do I can make an external filter for that.

                      I think you said D201 is a 5.1V Zener. What is R208 value?

                      Are you winding T201 bifilar to make the 3:1 transformer?

                      John
                      On 9/21/2012 10:15 AM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                       
                      Hi John,

                      On the new driver PCB if you populate Q7 with a 2N2222 or 2N3904 NPN transistor and swap E and C, use a 220 ohm for R209 then the amplifier will key up with 12V applied to PTT in rather than pulling it to ground.

                      Another thing to think about with running on low voltage is power output, it's related to Vd squared.

                      Po = Vd^2/(2*Zd)

                      With a 1:3 T201 winding we're lookng at a Zd = 50/9 = 5.55 ohms

                      So at 13.8V the max power is 17.1 watts, at 11V a max of only 11W.

                      The actual output is less because the formula doesn't account for various losses around the circuit. With 13.8V I was seeing at least 10W nice and linear as much as 13 or 14W if you don't mind compression (CW, FSK). With 11V these figures will be lower.

                      73's
                      Jim WA2EUJ

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi John,
                      >
                      > Thanks I'll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is regulated and shouldn't come out of regulation until the voltage drops below 10V, this could be improved at the cost of an increase of a few mA of idle current. Don't worry about it too much because my experience with these MOSFETs is that they aren't too sensitive to IDQ anyway.
                      >
                      > 73's
                      > Jim WA2EUJ
                      >
                      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during ptt...
                      > > so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the
                      > > softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V directly
                      > > into the board.
                      > >
                      > > Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v gell-cell
                      > > vs. a 13.8V supply?
                      > >
                      > > John - ke5ssh
                      > >
                      > > On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi John,
                      > > >
                      > > > The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my
                      > > > experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA seems to
                      > > > work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier to the
                      > > > Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are using
                      > > > the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of
                      > > > putting 5V across VR201during TX.
                      > > >
                      > > > One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201,
                      > > > (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can
                      > > > supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I
                      > > > use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the
                      > > > 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground
                      > > > through a 1K resistor (R209).
                      > > >
                      > > > I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces but may
                      > > > QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX that will
                      > > > work with this circuitry.
                      > > >
                      > > > 73's
                      > > > Jim WA2EUJ
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Jim,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Can you explain the bias switching?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > John
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > >
                      > > John Williams
                      > >
                      > > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                      > > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                      > >
                      >


                      -- 
                      
                      John Williams
                      
                      KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                      WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                      


                    • jim.veatch@verizon.net
                      R208 should be 1K and the zener will stay in regulation down to 10.5 Volts on it draws 9mA if you want to regulate lower try a 680 ohm but it ll draw a little
                      Message 11 of 11 , Sep 22, 2012
                        R208 should be 1K and the zener will stay in regulation down to 10.5 Volts on it draws 9mA if you want to regulate lower try a 680 ohm but it'll draw a little more current if that matters to you.

                        With the binocular core I didn't think that bifilar winding was necessary so I put 1 loop of #22 teflon insulated wire through the core and connected one end to the 13.8V and the other to the drian of the MOSFET then soldered another piece of the #22 Teflon to the drain wound it twice through the core (in the same direction as the first loop) then connected it to C208. Turned the amp on put in some RF and 10 watts comes out, except on 6M where it only gets a little more than 5W but that's all it got before so at least there's no loss.

                        10W is probably a lot to ask of a BN202-43 core so if anyone sees one fail let us know what happened.

                        Curtis has agrees to put 2 drivers of the PCB set so with the next run we'll have lots to sell. And it will have placed for all the REV B circuitry, T/R relay, bias requlator, enhanced RF filtering. Just add a few parts and your got 10 dB gain for your Softrock.

                        73's
                        Jim WA2EUJ



                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Jim,
                        > thanks for the change, will give it a try...
                        >
                        > my end concept is to house this in a k5mh case to match my 40/30/20 rxtx
                        > and try to fill the holes to make it look like a companion amp. Can I
                        > build the filter with 3 caps and 1 toroid like the 50W 2nd run amp and
                        > use it for 20/30 operation? I never seem to run on 40 but if I do I can
                        > make an external filter for that.
                        >
                        > I think you said D201 is a 5.1V Zener. What is R208 value?
                        >
                        > Are you winding T201 bifilar to make the 3:1 transformer?
                        >
                        > John
                        > On 9/21/2012 10:15 AM, jim.veatch@... wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi John,
                        > >
                        > > On the new driver PCB if you populate Q7 with a 2N2222 or 2N3904 NPN
                        > > transistor and swap E and C, use a 220 ohm for R209 then the amplifier
                        > > will key up with 12V applied to PTT in rather than pulling it to ground.
                        > >
                        > > Another thing to think about with running on low voltage is power
                        > > output, it's related to Vd squared.
                        > >
                        > > Po = Vd^2/(2*Zd)
                        > >
                        > > With a 1:3 T201 winding we're lookng at a Zd = 50/9 = 5.55 ohms
                        > >
                        > > So at 13.8V the max power is 17.1 watts, at 11V a max of only 11W.
                        > >
                        > > The actual output is less because the formula doesn't account for
                        > > various losses around the circuit. With 13.8V I was seeing at least
                        > > 10W nice and linear as much as 13 or 14W if you don't mind compression
                        > > (CW, FSK). With 11V these figures will be lower.
                        > >
                        > > 73's
                        > > Jim WA2EUJ
                        > >
                        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, jim.veatch@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi John,
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks I'll look into S12V for keying the driver. The bias is
                        > > regulated and shouldn't come out of regulation until the voltage drops
                        > > below 10V, this could be improved at the cost of an increase of a few
                        > > mA of idle current. Don't worry about it too much because my
                        > > experience with these MOSFETs is that they aren't too sensitive to IDQ
                        > > anyway.
                        > > >
                        > > > 73's
                        > > > Jim WA2EUJ
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > We use a signal called S12V from the softrock that is +12V during
                        > > ptt...
                        > > > > so I use a npn transistor to invert it. since you are targeting the
                        > > > > softrock might be good to add an unpop'ed section to take S12V
                        > > directly
                        > > > > into the board.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Will the bias need to be re-calibrated if the supply is a 12v
                        > > gell-cell
                        > > > > vs. a 13.8V supply?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > John - ke5ssh
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 9/20/2012 12:16 PM, jim.veatch@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi John,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The bias for the MOSFET should be a drain current of 500mA. In my
                        > > > > > experience you can't quite get there with 5V but 400-450 mA
                        > > seems to
                        > > > > > work fine. In the Hardrock-50 a switched 5V source is supplier
                        > > to the
                        > > > > > Driver PCB from the AMP PCB via the 'PWR' connector. If you are
                        > > using
                        > > > > > the Driver PCB as a stand-alone amp you need some external way of
                        > > > > > putting 5V across VR201during TX.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > One way to do this is put a 5V zener across Pins 1 and 3 of VR201,
                        > > > > > (actually 5.1V) then add a series 1K resistor (R208) now you can
                        > > > > > supply a switched 12V source (which is what the relay needs too). I
                        > > > > > use a PNP switching transistor 2N3906 or similar which switches the
                        > > > > > 13V on to the relay and bias circuit by pulling it's base to ground
                        > > > > > through a 1K resistor (R209).
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I can't remember what like of TX signal the Softrock produces
                        > > but may
                        > > > > > QRP rigs have an open contact pull ground arrangement for TX
                        > > that will
                        > > > > > work with this circuitry.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > 73's
                        > > > > > Jim WA2EUJ
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Williams <KE5SSH@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Hi Jim,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Can you explain the bias switching?
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > John
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > >
                        > > > > John Williams
                        > > > >
                        > > > > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                        > > > > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > John Williams
                        >
                        > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                        > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                        >
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