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Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

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  • Lawrence Galea
    An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun. You may also use some toothpaste. Not to be used when you have
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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      An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun.
      You may also use some toothpaste.
      Not to be used when you have trimmers and other items that can be damaged by water ingress.
      Regards
      Lawrence


      Da: Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...>
      A: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      Inviato: Sabato 1 Settembre 2012 18:44
      Oggetto: [softrock40] Removing Flux

       
      Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove flux from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I hope it will live happily ever after)?

      I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read sales drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a mildly conductive salt.  Is this a realistic concern?  If so, what do you use to wash the back side of the board?
      Thanks,
      Kevin /K4KPK


    • Thomas Horsten
      Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent is not worth the trouble. Small amounts of toothpaste, water and whatever may become
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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        Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent is not worth the trouble. Small amounts of toothpaste, water and whatever may become trapped under components, in cracks under solder joints etc. and cause corrosion and trouble. Proper flux cleaner is inexpensive and cleans the PCB completely, leaving no residue, and dries out in seconds.

        I'd say if you haven't used any flux other than what's inside your multicore solder you may get away without doing any cleaning. But for SoftRock kits with the many SMT components, not using flux is like trying to pick a tooth with a knitting needle. Solder bridges on surface mount chips are easily avoided by applying liberal amounts of flux, and just running the tinned tip of the iron along the edge, I'm sure it can be done without flux but one mistake and you have a very hard-to-correct situation, unless you apply some flux and touch it up.

        73, Thomas M0TRN

        On 2 September 2012 10:31, Lawrence Galea <galea_lawrence@...> wrote:
        An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun.
        You may also use some toothpaste.
        Not to be used when you have trimmers and other items that can be damaged by water ingress.

      • Zack Widup
        I ve been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to be safe on all non-plastic
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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          I've been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer
          chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to
          be safe on all non-plastic electronic parts - IC's, chip caps and
          resistors, through-hole caps and resistors, etc. I am always very
          careful around trimmer caps with plastic cases; I just carefully swab
          around the soldered contacts to get as much of the flux off as I can.

          73, Zack W9SZ


          On 9/1/12, Thomas Horsten <thomas@...> wrote:
          > Never leave the flux on. It is corrosive and conductive and can cause
          > problems if left in place. In addition a clean PCB is far easier to
          > visually inspect for problems.
          >
          > I use Chemtronix Flux-Off, it comes in a spray can with an attached brush
          > and is a very quick and easy way to clean up the board after soldering and
          > making a mess with flux.
          >
          > 73, Thomas M0TRN
          >
          > On 1 September 2012 17:44, Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove flux
          >> from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I hope
          >> it
          >> will live happily ever after)?
          >>
          >> I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read sales
          >> drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a mildly
          >> conductive salt. Is this a realistic concern? If so, what do you use to
          >> wash the back side of the board?
          >> Thanks,
          >> Kevin /K4KPK
          >>
          >>
          >
        • KQ8M
          I use Puretronics Flux Remover. Does the trick for me. I also use a toothbrush with it but most of the time I don t even need that. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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            I use Puretronics Flux Remover. Does the trick for me. I also use a toothbrush with it but most of the time I don't even need that.

             

            73,

            Tim Herrick, KQ8M

            Charter Member North Coast Contesters

            kq8m@...

             

            AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

            User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

            Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

             

            From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kaidor
            Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:34 PM
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

             

             

            > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent

            > is
            > not worth the trouble.

            *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
            stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
            doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

            - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

          • Jerry Kaidor
            ... *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely, doesn t
            Message 5 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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              > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent
              > is
              > not worth the trouble.

              *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
              stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
              doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

              - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
            • Ronald Wagner
              Apparently the strong kind is not available in California. Ron - ki6fhb From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
              Message 6 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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                Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.

                 

                Ron – ki6fhb

                 

                From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kaidor
                Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:34 AM
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

                 

                 

                > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent

                > is
                > not worth the trouble.

                *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
                stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
                doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

                - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

              • Jerry Kaidor
                ... *** Um, I think it is. I ll go down and check my can.... The description reads: Denatured Alcohol High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and
                Message 7 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
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                  > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                  *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                  The description reads:

                  Denatured Alcohol
                  High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                  Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                  store.

                  - Jerry, KF6VB
                • mtnredhed
                  I think you ll find that s ethanol you have. The problem with isopro is that if you buy 99%, (and I just saw it in a NorCal Fry s) it will absorb water vapor
                  Message 8 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                    I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.

                    The problem with isopro is that if you buy 99%, (and I just saw it in a NorCal Fry's) it will absorb water vapor till it reaches 91%. Its still not bad and dries pretty quick.

                    I just use a commercial flux cleaner

                    --- In softrock40@..., "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                    > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                    > The description reads:
                    >
                    > Denatured Alcohol
                    > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                    >
                    > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                    > store.
                    >
                    > - Jerry, KF6VB
                    >
                  • Zack Widup
                    In other words, to discourage people from drinking it. ... 73, Zack W9SZ
                    Message 9 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                      In other words, to discourage people from drinking it.
                      :-)

                      73, Zack W9SZ


                      On 9/3/12, Jerry Kaidor <jerry@...> wrote:
                      >> I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.
                      > *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to "denature" it.
                      >
                      > - Jerry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jerry Kaidor
                      ... *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to denature it. - Jerry
                      Message 10 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                        > I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.
                        *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to "denature" it.

                        - Jerry
                      • Keith Carter
                        I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early 80 s. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely.
                        Message 11 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                          I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                          KF4BI


                          On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                           

                          > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                          *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                          The description reads:

                          Denatured Alcohol
                          High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                          Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                          store.

                          - Jerry, KF6VB

                          No virus found in this message.
                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12


                        • rlramirez77
                          Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal. I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent
                          Message 12 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                            Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.

                            I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.

                            In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use rosin in case you wondered.

                            I hope this was at least interesting.

                            Russ
                            K0WFS

                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                            > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                            > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                            > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                            > KF4BI
                            >
                            >
                            > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                            > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                            > > The description reads:
                            > >
                            > > Denatured Alcohol
                            > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                            > >
                            > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                            > > store.
                            > >
                            > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > No virus found in this message.
                            > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                            > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                            > >
                            >
                          • KQ8M
                            Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure seems to clean the board very
                            Message 13 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                              Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning  Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?

                               

                              73,

                              Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                              Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                              kq8m@...

                               

                              AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                              User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                              Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                               

                              From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                              Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                               

                               

                              Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.

                              I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.

                              In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use rosin in case you wondered.

                              I hope this was at least interesting.

                              Russ
                              K0WFS

                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                              > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                              > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                              > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                              > KF4BI
                              >
                              >
                              > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                              > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                              > > The description reads:
                              > >
                              > > Denatured Alcohol
                              > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                              > >
                              > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                              > > store.
                              > >
                              > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > No virus found in this message.
                              > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                              > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                              > >
                              >

                            • rlramirez77
                              That s a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It s a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the
                              Message 14 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                                That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                Russ
                                K0WFS

                                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > 73,
                                >
                                > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                >
                                > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                >
                                > kq8m@...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                >
                                > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                >
                                > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                >
                                > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                >
                                > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                > rosin in case you wondered.
                                >
                                > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                >
                                > Russ
                                > K0WFS
                                >
                                > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                > > KF4BI
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                > > > The description reads:
                                > > >
                                > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                > > >
                                > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                > > > store.
                                > > >
                                > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > No virus found in this message.
                                > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • KQ8M
                                Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding. It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I
                                Message 15 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                                  Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                   

                                  It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                   

                                  It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                   

                                  73,

                                  Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                  Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                  kq8m@...

                                   

                                  AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                  User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                  Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                   

                                  From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                  Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                   

                                   

                                  That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                  I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                  Russ
                                  K0WFS

                                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                  > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                  > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 73,
                                  >
                                  > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                  >
                                  > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                  >
                                  > kq8m@...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                  >
                                  > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                  >
                                  > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                  > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                  > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                  >
                                  > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                  > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                  > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                  >
                                  > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                  > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                  > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                  > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                  > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                  > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                  > rosin in case you wondered.
                                  >
                                  > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                  >
                                  > Russ
                                  > K0WFS
                                  >
                                  > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                  > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                  > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                  > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                  > > KF4BI
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                  > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                  > > > The description reads:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                  > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                  > > > store.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > No virus found in this message.
                                  > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                  > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >

                                • Jasmine Strong
                                  The spot remover dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you re into mixing your own… -J. ... The spot
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    The "spot remover" dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you're into mixing your own…

                                    -J.

                                    On 3 Sep 2012, at 10:52, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                     

                                    It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                     

                                    It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                     

                                    73,

                                    Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                    Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                    kq8m@...

                                     

                                    AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                    User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                    Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                     

                                    From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                    Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                     

                                     

                                    That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                    I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                    Russ
                                    K0WFS

                                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                    > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                    > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 73,
                                    >
                                    > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                    >
                                    > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                    >
                                    > kq8m@...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                    >
                                    > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                    >
                                    > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                    > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                    > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                    >
                                    > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                    > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                    > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                    >
                                    > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                    > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                    > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                    > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                    > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                    > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                    > rosin in case you wondered.
                                    >
                                    > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                    >
                                    > Russ
                                    > K0WFS
                                    >
                                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                    > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                    > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                    > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                    > > KF4BI
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                    > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                    > > > The description reads:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                    > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                    > > > store.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > No virus found in this message.
                                    > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                    > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >



                                  • KQ8M
                                    Naw, If I mix my own I would probably blow myself up. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M Charter Member North Coast Contesters kq8m@kq8m.com AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                                      Naw, If I mix my own I would probably blow myself up.

                                       

                                      73,

                                      Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                      Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                      kq8m@...

                                       

                                      AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                      User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                      Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                       

                                      From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Strong
                                      Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:29 PM
                                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      The "spot remover" dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you're into mixing your own…

                                       

                                      -J.

                                       

                                      On 3 Sep 2012, at 10:52, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:



                                       

                                       

                                      Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                       

                                      It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                       

                                      It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                       

                                      73,

                                      Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                      Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                      kq8m@...

                                       

                                      AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                      User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                      Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                       

                                      From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                      Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                       

                                       

                                      That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                      I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                      Russ
                                      K0WFS

                                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                      > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                      > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 73,
                                      >
                                      > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                      >
                                      > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                      >
                                      > kq8m@...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                      >
                                      > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                      >
                                      > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                      > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                      >
                                      > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                      > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                      > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                      >
                                      > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                      > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                      > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                      > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                      > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                      > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                      > rosin in case you wondered.
                                      >
                                      > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                      >
                                      > Russ
                                      > K0WFS
                                      >
                                      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                      > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                      > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                      > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                      > > KF4BI
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                      > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                      > > > The description reads:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                      > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                      > > > store.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > No virus found in this message.
                                      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                      > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                       

                                       

                                    • Jerry Kaidor
                                      ... *** It s a small world. My wife Marina is a paint chemist - she works for kelly-Moore. - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > I used to own a paint company
                                        *** It's a small world. My wife Marina is a paint chemist - she works
                                        for kelly-Moore.

                                        - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB


                                        >> On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                        >> >
                                        >> > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                        >> > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                        >> > The description reads:
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Denatured Alcohol
                                        >> > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                        >> > store.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> > No virus found in this message.
                                        >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                        >> > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date:
                                        >> 09/03/12
                                        >> >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • cc_photo
                                        For what it is worth ... I usually remove excess flux using dental picks. Easy to get all flux out without the chemical problems that can crop up. Just blow
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          For what it is worth ... I usually remove excess flux using dental
                                          picks. Easy to get all flux out without the chemical problems that can
                                          crop up. Just blow scrapped flux off/out with a little compressed air.

                                          Roland, KB8XI

                                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I've been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer
                                          > chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to
                                          > be safe on all non-plastic electronic parts - IC's, chip caps and
                                          > resistors, through-hole caps and resistors, etc. I am always very
                                          > careful around trimmer caps with plastic cases; I just carefully swab
                                          > around the soldered contacts to get as much of the flux off as I can.
                                          >
                                          > 73, Zack W9SZ
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 9/1/12, Thomas Horsten thomas@... wrote:
                                          > > Never leave the flux on. It is corrosive and conductive and can
                                          cause
                                          > > problems if left in place. In addition a clean PCB is far easier to
                                          > > visually inspect for problems.
                                          > >
                                          > > I use Chemtronix Flux-Off, it comes in a spray can with an attached
                                          brush
                                          > > and is a very quick and easy way to clean up the board after
                                          soldering and
                                          > > making a mess with flux.
                                          > >
                                          > > 73, Thomas M0TRN
                                          > >
                                          > > On 1 September 2012 17:44, Kevin Kleinfelter kevin@... wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >> Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove
                                          flux
                                          > >> from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I
                                          hope
                                          > >> it
                                          > >> will live happily ever after)?
                                          > >>
                                          > >> I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read
                                          sales
                                          > >> drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a
                                          mildly
                                          > >> conductive salt. Is this a realistic concern? If so, what do you
                                          use to
                                          > >> wash the back side of the board?
                                          > >> Thanks,
                                          > >> Kevin /K4KPK
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Tim Campbell
                                          Keith, Were you in the Marines? If so what year did you attend the Metrology school? Tim KB2MFS
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
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                                            Keith,

                                            Were you in the Marines?  If so what year did you attend the Metrology school?

                                            Tim KB2MFS



                                            On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                            KF4BI




                                            On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                             

                                            > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                            *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                            The description reads:

                                            Denatured Alcohol
                                            High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                                            Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                            store.

                                            - Jerry, KF6VB

                                            No virus found in this message.
                                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12



                                          • Keith Carter
                                            Hi Tim, No, I was Army; but worked in the Metrology division at USMCLB Albany as a civilian afterward for a short while. I was communications NCO during the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Sep 4, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Tim,
                                              No, I was Army; but worked in the Metrology division at USMCLB Albany as a civilian afterward for a short while. I was communications NCO during the early '70's.
                                              Keith


                                              On 9/3/2012 10:37 PM, Tim Campbell wrote:
                                               

                                              Keith,


                                              Were you in the Marines?  If so what year did you attend the Metrology school?

                                              Tim KB2MFS



                                              On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                              KF4BI




                                              On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                               

                                              > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                              *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                              The description reads:

                                              Denatured Alcohol
                                              High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                                              Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                              store.

                                              - Jerry, KF6VB

                                              No virus found in this message.
                                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                              Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12



                                              No virus found in this message.
                                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                              Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5248 - Release Date: 09/04/12


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