Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

Expand Messages
  • Alan
    ... Subject: [softrock40] Removing Flux ... Kevin, I ve never bothered. The usual multicore solder is what I use with no additional flux. I cannot remember
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      Subject: [softrock40] Removing Flux


      > Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove flux from
      > my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I hope it will
      > live happily ever after)?
      >
      >but I've read sales drivel

      Kevin,

      I've never bothered. The usual multicore solder is what I use with no additional flux. I cannot remember having any problems.
      But some have strong opinions opposing my view...

      73 Alan G4ZFQ
    • Gordon JC Pearce
      ... I use either IPA, proprietary special flux cleaner or just plain ordinary de-icer to clean it off. Yes, de-icer, like you spray on your windscreen. I ve
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        On 01/09/12 17:44, Kevin Kleinfelter wrote:

        > I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read sales
        > drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a mildly
        > conductive salt. Is this a realistic concern? If so, what do you use
        > to wash the back side of the board?
        > Thanks,
        > Kevin /K4KPK

        I use either IPA, proprietary special flux cleaner or just plain
        ordinary de-icer to clean it off. Yes, de-icer, like you spray on your
        windscreen.

        I've noticed that some boards have whitish salty deposits presumably
        from incompletely removed flux. Tait seem to be bad for this. It
        doesn't appear to do any harm but it *does* look exactly like water damage!

        --
        Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ
      • Lawrence Galea
        An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun. You may also use some toothpaste. Not to be used when you have
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun.
          You may also use some toothpaste.
          Not to be used when you have trimmers and other items that can be damaged by water ingress.
          Regards
          Lawrence


          Da: Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...>
          A: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Inviato: Sabato 1 Settembre 2012 18:44
          Oggetto: [softrock40] Removing Flux

           
          Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove flux from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I hope it will live happily ever after)?

          I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read sales drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a mildly conductive salt.  Is this a realistic concern?  If so, what do you use to wash the back side of the board?
          Thanks,
          Kevin /K4KPK


        • Thomas Horsten
          Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent is not worth the trouble. Small amounts of toothpaste, water and whatever may become
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent is not worth the trouble. Small amounts of toothpaste, water and whatever may become trapped under components, in cracks under solder joints etc. and cause corrosion and trouble. Proper flux cleaner is inexpensive and cleans the PCB completely, leaving no residue, and dries out in seconds.

            I'd say if you haven't used any flux other than what's inside your multicore solder you may get away without doing any cleaning. But for SoftRock kits with the many SMT components, not using flux is like trying to pick a tooth with a knitting needle. Solder bridges on surface mount chips are easily avoided by applying liberal amounts of flux, and just running the tinned tip of the iron along the edge, I'm sure it can be done without flux but one mistake and you have a very hard-to-correct situation, unless you apply some flux and touch it up.

            73, Thomas M0TRN

            On 2 September 2012 10:31, Lawrence Galea <galea_lawrence@...> wrote:
            An old toothbrush, liquid soap and water, rinse well and dry with a hair blower or in the sun.
            You may also use some toothpaste.
            Not to be used when you have trimmers and other items that can be damaged by water ingress.

          • Zack Widup
            I ve been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to be safe on all non-plastic
            Message 5 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I've been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer
              chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to
              be safe on all non-plastic electronic parts - IC's, chip caps and
              resistors, through-hole caps and resistors, etc. I am always very
              careful around trimmer caps with plastic cases; I just carefully swab
              around the soldered contacts to get as much of the flux off as I can.

              73, Zack W9SZ


              On 9/1/12, Thomas Horsten <thomas@...> wrote:
              > Never leave the flux on. It is corrosive and conductive and can cause
              > problems if left in place. In addition a clean PCB is far easier to
              > visually inspect for problems.
              >
              > I use Chemtronix Flux-Off, it comes in a spray can with an attached brush
              > and is a very quick and easy way to clean up the board after soldering and
              > making a mess with flux.
              >
              > 73, Thomas M0TRN
              >
              > On 1 September 2012 17:44, Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...> wrote:
              >
              >> Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove flux
              >> from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I hope
              >> it
              >> will live happily ever after)?
              >>
              >> I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read sales
              >> drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a mildly
              >> conductive salt. Is this a realistic concern? If so, what do you use to
              >> wash the back side of the board?
              >> Thanks,
              >> Kevin /K4KPK
              >>
              >>
              >
            • KQ8M
              I use Puretronics Flux Remover. Does the trick for me. I also use a toothbrush with it but most of the time I don t even need that. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M
              Message 6 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
              • 0 Attachment

                I use Puretronics Flux Remover. Does the trick for me. I also use a toothbrush with it but most of the time I don't even need that.

                 

                73,

                Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                kq8m@...

                 

                AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                 

                From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kaidor
                Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:34 PM
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

                 

                 

                > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent

                > is
                > not worth the trouble.

                *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
                stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
                doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

                - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

              • Jerry Kaidor
                ... *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely, doesn t
                Message 7 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent
                  > is
                  > not worth the trouble.

                  *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
                  stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
                  doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

                  - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
                • Ronald Wagner
                  Apparently the strong kind is not available in California. Ron - ki6fhb From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
                  Message 8 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.

                     

                    Ron – ki6fhb

                     

                    From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kaidor
                    Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:34 AM
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Removing Flux

                     

                     

                    > Frankly, saving a few dollars by not buying a proper flux cleaning agent

                    > is
                    > not worth the trouble.

                    *** I use Isopropyl alcohol. The strong kind that they sell at the paint
                    stores. Anhydrous ( no water ). Cleans well, evaporates completely,
                    doesn't give me a headache. Cheap as dirt.

                    - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

                  • Jerry Kaidor
                    ... *** Um, I think it is. I ll go down and check my can.... The description reads: Denatured Alcohol High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and
                    Message 9 of 27 , Sep 2, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                      *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                      The description reads:

                      Denatured Alcohol
                      High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                      Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                      store.

                      - Jerry, KF6VB
                    • mtnredhed
                      I think you ll find that s ethanol you have. The problem with isopro is that if you buy 99%, (and I just saw it in a NorCal Fry s) it will absorb water vapor
                      Message 10 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.

                        The problem with isopro is that if you buy 99%, (and I just saw it in a NorCal Fry's) it will absorb water vapor till it reaches 91%. Its still not bad and dries pretty quick.

                        I just use a commercial flux cleaner

                        --- In softrock40@..., "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                        > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                        > The description reads:
                        >
                        > Denatured Alcohol
                        > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                        >
                        > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                        > store.
                        >
                        > - Jerry, KF6VB
                        >
                      • Zack Widup
                        In other words, to discourage people from drinking it. ... 73, Zack W9SZ
                        Message 11 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In other words, to discourage people from drinking it.
                          :-)

                          73, Zack W9SZ


                          On 9/3/12, Jerry Kaidor <jerry@...> wrote:
                          >> I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.
                          > *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to "denature" it.
                          >
                          > - Jerry
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Jerry Kaidor
                          ... *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to denature it. - Jerry
                          Message 12 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > I think you'll find that's ethanol you have.
                            *** Yes indeed. With four percent wood alcohol to "denature" it.

                            - Jerry
                          • Keith Carter
                            I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early 80 s. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                              KF4BI


                              On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                               

                              > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                              *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                              The description reads:

                              Denatured Alcohol
                              High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                              Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                              store.

                              - Jerry, KF6VB

                              No virus found in this message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12


                            • rlramirez77
                              Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal. I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent
                              Message 14 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.

                                I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.

                                In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use rosin in case you wondered.

                                I hope this was at least interesting.

                                Russ
                                K0WFS

                                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                > KF4BI
                                >
                                >
                                > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                > > The description reads:
                                > >
                                > > Denatured Alcohol
                                > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                > >
                                > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                > > store.
                                > >
                                > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > No virus found in this message.
                                > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                > >
                                >
                              • KQ8M
                                Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure seems to clean the board very
                                Message 15 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning  Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?

                                   

                                  73,

                                  Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                  Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                  kq8m@...

                                   

                                  AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                  User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                  Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                   

                                  From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                  Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                   

                                   

                                  Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.

                                  I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.

                                  In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use rosin in case you wondered.

                                  I hope this was at least interesting.

                                  Russ
                                  K0WFS

                                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                  > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                  > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                  > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                  > KF4BI
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                  > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                  > > The description reads:
                                  > >
                                  > > Denatured Alcohol
                                  > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                  > >
                                  > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                  > > store.
                                  > >
                                  > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > No virus found in this message.
                                  > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                  > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                  > >
                                  >

                                • rlramirez77
                                  That s a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It s a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                    I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                    Russ
                                    K0WFS

                                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                    > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                    > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 73,
                                    >
                                    > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                    >
                                    > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                    >
                                    > kq8m@...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                    >
                                    > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                    >
                                    > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                    > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                    > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                    >
                                    > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                    > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                    > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                    >
                                    > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                    > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                    > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                    > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                    > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                    > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                    > rosin in case you wondered.
                                    >
                                    > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                    >
                                    > Russ
                                    > K0WFS
                                    >
                                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                    > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                    > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                    > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                    > > KF4BI
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                    > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                    > > > The description reads:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                    > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                    > > > store.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > No virus found in this message.
                                    > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                    > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • KQ8M
                                    Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding. It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                       

                                      It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                       

                                      It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                       

                                      73,

                                      Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                      Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                      kq8m@...

                                       

                                      AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                      User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                      Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                       

                                      From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                      Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                       

                                       

                                      That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                      I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                      Russ
                                      K0WFS

                                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                      > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                      > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 73,
                                      >
                                      > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                      >
                                      > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                      >
                                      > kq8m@...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                      >
                                      > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                      >
                                      > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                      > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                      >
                                      > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                      > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                      > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                      >
                                      > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                      > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                      > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                      > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                      > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                      > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                      > rosin in case you wondered.
                                      >
                                      > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                      >
                                      > Russ
                                      > K0WFS
                                      >
                                      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                      > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                      > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                      > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                      > > KF4BI
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                      > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                      > > > The description reads:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                      > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                      > > > store.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > No virus found in this message.
                                      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                      > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • Jasmine Strong
                                      The spot remover dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you re into mixing your own… -J. ... The spot
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        The "spot remover" dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you're into mixing your own…

                                        -J.

                                        On 3 Sep 2012, at 10:52, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                         

                                        It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                         

                                        It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                         

                                        73,

                                        Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                        Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                        kq8m@...

                                         

                                        AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                        User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                        Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                         

                                        From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                        Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                         

                                         

                                        That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                        I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                        Russ
                                        K0WFS

                                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                        > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                        > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > 73,
                                        >
                                        > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                        >
                                        > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                        >
                                        > kq8m@...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                        >
                                        > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                        >
                                        > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                        > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                        > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                        >
                                        > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                        > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                        > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                        >
                                        > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                        > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                        > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                        > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                        > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                        > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                        > rosin in case you wondered.
                                        >
                                        > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                        >
                                        > Russ
                                        > K0WFS
                                        >
                                        > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                        > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                        > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                        > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                        > > KF4BI
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                        > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                        > > > The description reads:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                        > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                        > > > store.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > No virus found in this message.
                                        > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                        > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >



                                      • KQ8M
                                        Naw, If I mix my own I would probably blow myself up. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M Charter Member North Coast Contesters kq8m@kq8m.com AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          Naw, If I mix my own I would probably blow myself up.

                                           

                                          73,

                                          Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                          Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                          kq8m@...

                                           

                                          AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                          User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                          Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                           

                                          From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Strong
                                          Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:29 PM
                                          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          The "spot remover" dry-cleaning fluid you can get in the supermarket is usually deodorised isohexane, if you're into mixing your own…

                                           

                                          -J.

                                           

                                          On 3 Sep 2012, at 10:52, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:



                                           

                                           

                                          Does your wife know about that? Lol Just kidding.

                                           

                                          It is from PureTronics and is labeled as a flux remover. I was just wondering if it was really any good. I guess from what you are saying it will do the trick.

                                           

                                          It sure has a quite a few warnings on it. Do not eat, do not spray in eyes, do not breathe, and so on and so forth. The usual warnings.

                                           

                                          73,

                                          Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                                          Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                                          kq8m@...

                                           

                                          AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                                          User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                                          Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                                           

                                          From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                          Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:43 PM
                                          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic

                                           

                                           

                                          That's a nice blend, good for all kinds of things :-) It's a spray flux remover with difluoroethane as a propellant? The Toluene is best for the rosin, the Heptane (gasoline is mainly hexane, heptane and octane) is good for aliphatic resins/gums that could be used to stabilize the rosin.

                                          I once used a hexane-based contact cleaner to remove makeup from a new sweater - worked perfectly.

                                          Russ
                                          K0WFS

                                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Actually it is very interesting, Russ. The stuff I use contains Toluene, Heptane, Isopropyl Alcohol and Difluoroethane. It sure
                                          > seems to clean the board very easily. How does that stack up to cleaning Rosin core Kester 44 from about 20 or 30 years ago. Not
                                          > when it was soldered but how long ago I bought the solder?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 73,
                                          >
                                          > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                                          >
                                          > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                                          >
                                          > kq8m@...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                                          >
                                          > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                                          >
                                          > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlramirez77
                                          > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:33 PM
                                          > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Removing Flux - even further off topic
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Just an FYI if anyone has difficulty using or obtaining alcohols for flux removal.
                                          >
                                          > I used to own a paint company and had to understand solubility and solvent chemistry quite well. Most store bought denatured alcohol
                                          > will work the best because it is often denatured with small amounts of gasoline or toluene. Also quite common is 'recovery' solvent
                                          > from use in the electronics industry where the solvent is blended into ethanol to denature it.
                                          >
                                          > In chemistry there is a phrase 'like dissolves like' because organic substances and their matching solvents are in the same chemical
                                          > family. For example, aromatic hydrocarbon resins like rosin (which is a complex blend of molecules) are *best* dissolved by solvents
                                          > that are also aromatic. Pure ethanol (200 proof) would not do a very good job if you could try it. In fact, the shellac resin still
                                          > sold today sometimes is extended with rosin and will not dissolve in alcohol, but remains in suspension at the bottom of a
                                          > container. Hexane (used in some contact cleaners) is actually an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but still is a bit closer to what would
                                          > ideally dissolve colophony resin (rosin), which would be substances like turpentine or xylene. Solders like Kester 44 still use
                                          > rosin in case you wondered.
                                          >
                                          > I hope this was at least interesting.
                                          >
                                          > Russ
                                          > K0WFS
                                          >
                                          > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Carter <kcarter49@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All
                                          > > the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured
                                          > > alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems
                                          > > because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                          > > KF4BI
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                          > > > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                          > > > The description reads:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Denatured Alcohol
                                          > > > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                          > > > store.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > No virus found in this message.
                                          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                          > > > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >

                                           

                                           

                                        • Jerry Kaidor
                                          ... *** It s a small world. My wife Marina is a paint chemist - she works for kelly-Moore. - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            > I used to own a paint company
                                            *** It's a small world. My wife Marina is a paint chemist - she works
                                            for kelly-Moore.

                                            - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB


                                            >> On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                            >> >
                                            >> > > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                            >> > *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                            >> > The description reads:
                                            >> >
                                            >> > Denatured Alcohol
                                            >> > High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.
                                            >> >
                                            >> > Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                            >> > store.
                                            >> >
                                            >> > - Jerry, KF6VB
                                            >> >
                                            >> >
                                            >> >
                                            >> > No virus found in this message.
                                            >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                            >> > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date:
                                            >> 09/03/12
                                            >> >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • cc_photo
                                            For what it is worth ... I usually remove excess flux using dental picks. Easy to get all flux out without the chemical problems that can crop up. Just blow
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              For what it is worth ... I usually remove excess flux using dental
                                              picks. Easy to get all flux out without the chemical problems that can
                                              crop up. Just blow scrapped flux off/out with a little compressed air.

                                              Roland, KB8XI

                                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I've been using MEK and Q-tips. I know there are a lot of safer
                                              > chemicals around but I use it in a well-ventilated area. It seems to
                                              > be safe on all non-plastic electronic parts - IC's, chip caps and
                                              > resistors, through-hole caps and resistors, etc. I am always very
                                              > careful around trimmer caps with plastic cases; I just carefully swab
                                              > around the soldered contacts to get as much of the flux off as I can.
                                              >
                                              > 73, Zack W9SZ
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On 9/1/12, Thomas Horsten thomas@... wrote:
                                              > > Never leave the flux on. It is corrosive and conductive and can
                                              cause
                                              > > problems if left in place. In addition a clean PCB is far easier to
                                              > > visually inspect for problems.
                                              > >
                                              > > I use Chemtronix Flux-Off, it comes in a spray can with an attached
                                              brush
                                              > > and is a very quick and easy way to clean up the board after
                                              soldering and
                                              > > making a mess with flux.
                                              > >
                                              > > 73, Thomas M0TRN
                                              > >
                                              > > On 1 September 2012 17:44, Kevin Kleinfelter kevin@... wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >> Aesthetics aside, is there a practical reason why I should remove
                                              flux
                                              > >> from my circuit board, before ensconcing my RXTX in a case (where I
                                              hope
                                              > >> it
                                              > >> will live happily ever after)?
                                              > >>
                                              > >> I don't care what it looks like inside the case, but I've read
                                              sales
                                              > >> drivel which suggests that the flux may degrade over time into a
                                              mildly
                                              > >> conductive salt. Is this a realistic concern? If so, what do you
                                              use to
                                              > >> wash the back side of the board?
                                              > >> Thanks,
                                              > >> Kevin /K4KPK
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • Tim Campbell
                                              Keith, Were you in the Marines? If so what year did you attend the Metrology school? Tim KB2MFS
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Sep 3, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Keith,

                                                Were you in the Marines?  If so what year did you attend the Metrology school?

                                                Tim KB2MFS



                                                On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                                KF4BI




                                                On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                                 

                                                > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                                *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                                The description reads:

                                                Denatured Alcohol
                                                High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                                                Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                                store.

                                                - Jerry, KF6VB

                                                No virus found in this message.
                                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12



                                              • Keith Carter
                                                Hi Tim, No, I was Army; but worked in the Metrology division at USMCLB Albany as a civilian afterward for a short while. I was communications NCO during the
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Sep 4, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi Tim,
                                                  No, I was Army; but worked in the Metrology division at USMCLB Albany as a civilian afterward for a short while. I was communications NCO during the early '70's.
                                                  Keith


                                                  On 9/3/2012 10:37 PM, Tim Campbell wrote:
                                                   

                                                  Keith,


                                                  Were you in the Marines?  If so what year did you attend the Metrology school?

                                                  Tim KB2MFS



                                                  On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith Carter <kcarter49@...> wrote:
                                                   

                                                  I worked for the USMC in the Metrology division in the early "80's. All the circuit boards that we manufactured were cleaned with denatured alcohol routinely. Must have been known to cause no long term problems because we soaked boards in the stuff.
                                                  KF4BI




                                                  On 9/2/2012 4:15 PM, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                                                   

                                                  > Apparently the strong kind is not available in California.
                                                  *** Um, I think it is. I'll go down and check my can....
                                                  The description reads:

                                                  Denatured Alcohol
                                                  High grade fuel for alcohol burning chafing dishes and marine stoves.

                                                  Sounds like the strong kind to me. Bought it at the local house paint
                                                  store.

                                                  - Jerry, KF6VB

                                                  No virus found in this message.
                                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                  Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5245 - Release Date: 09/03/12



                                                  No virus found in this message.
                                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                  Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5248 - Release Date: 09/04/12


                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.