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Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

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  • Kevin Kleinfelter
    To tag on to this discussion… If I were to purchase a scope, I d be looking at a digital scope. What would be minimum specs to be successful for use with
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
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      To tag on to this discussion…   If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be looking at a digital scope.  What would be minimum specs to be successful for use with radio kits? 

      5M samples/sec?  50M samples/sec?
      50V peak-to-peak max?  500V peak-to-peak max?
      What about a stand-alone scope versus a PC-based USB scope?

      I'm not going to afford a state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line lab scope.  I'm looking for advice regarding specs for a "You can get pretty far using a scope with these specs in most amateur radio scenarios."
      TIA

      On Thursday, August 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM, KENNETH CHASE wrote:

       

      Hi Chris
       
      I as well needed a refresher since college(long time ago). I happen to pick up a used Tektronix, the same model I learned on. I downloaded the manuals and that's all I needed.
       
      73
       
      Ken VA3ABN

      From: Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...>
      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:12:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
       
      I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

      --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:

      From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

       
      Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off. Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems. I wouldn't trade my two for anything else. 73 ... Sid.   On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
       
      I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
      submission:

      I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
      joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
      installed.

      HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
      about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
      especially educational.

      What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
      advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
      what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
      where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
      recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
      spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
      actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
      flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
      bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
      the RF.

      In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
      need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
      troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
      do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

      At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
      shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
      the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
      just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
      trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
      that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

      - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

      --  
      Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
      Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
      Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
      Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
      


    • Rick Simpson
      Go to YouTube and search on oscilloscope . There are a dozen or more tutorials that demonstrate every aspect of scope usage. Rick ... From: KENNETH CHASE To:
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
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        Go to YouTube and search on "oscilloscope". There are a dozen or more tutorials that demonstrate every aspect of scope usage.
         
        Rick
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:17 PM
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

         

        Hi Chris
         
        I as well needed a refresher since college(long time ago). I happen to pick up a used Tektronix, the same model I learned on. I downloaded the manuals and that's all I needed.
         
        73
         
        Ken VA3ABN

        From: Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...>
        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:12:19 PM
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
         
        I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

        --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:

        From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

         
        Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off. Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems. I wouldn't trade my two for anything else. 73 ... Sid.   On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
         
        I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
        submission:

        I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
        joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
        installed.

        HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
        about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
        especially educational.

        What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
        advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
        what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
        where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
        recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
        spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
        actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
        flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
        bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
        the RF.

        In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
        need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
        troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
        do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

        At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
        shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
        the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
        just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
        trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
        that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

        - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

        -- 
        Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
        Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
        Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
        Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
        

      • Jasmine Strong
        I have a couple hundred bucks worth of Rigol 2-channel DSO. It s all you re likely to need for radio stuff up to VHF. -J. ... I have a couple hundred bucks
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
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          I have a couple hundred bucks worth of Rigol 2-channel DSO.  It's all you're likely to need for radio stuff up to VHF.

          -J.

          On 2 Aug 2012, at 09:37, Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...> wrote:

           

          To tag on to this discussion…   If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be looking at a digital scope.  What would be minimum specs to be successful for use with radio kits? 

          5M samples/sec?  50M samples/sec?
          50V peak-to-peak max?  500V peak-to-peak max?
          What about a stand-alone scope versus a PC-based USB scope?

          I'm not going to afford a state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line lab scope.  I'm looking for advice regarding specs for a "You can get pretty far using a scope with these specs in most amateur radio scenarios."
          TIA

          On Thursday, August 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM, KENNETH CHASE wrote:

           

          Hi Chris
           
          I as well needed a refresher since college(long time ago). I happen to pick up a used Tektronix, the same model I learned on. I downloaded the manuals and that's all I needed.
           
          73
           
          Ken VA3ABN

          From: Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...>
          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:12:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
           
          I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

          --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:

          From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

           
          Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off. Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems. I wouldn't trade my two for anything else. 73 ... Sid.   On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
           
          I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
          submission:

          I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
          joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
          installed.

          HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
          about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
          especially educational.

          What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
          advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
          what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
          where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
          recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
          spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
          actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
          flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
          bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
          the RF.

          In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
          need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
          troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
          do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

          At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
          shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
          the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
          just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
          trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
          that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

          - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

          --  
          Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
          Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
          Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
          Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
          




        • Stephen West-Fisher
          It s handy if you go further to have a scope that has a bandwidth which can handle your clock speed so you can see the digital signals. Not a requirement,
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

            It’s handy if you go further to have a scope that has a bandwidth which can handle your clock speed so you can see the digital signals. Not a requirement, because you can still tell from the blur that a clock signal is working. I just finished troubleshooting a HPSDR transmitter with an ancient USM-281A so it can be done.

             

            --

            Stephen West-Fisher

            N4IK

             

            From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Strong
            Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:05 PM
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

             

             

            I have a couple hundred bucks worth of Rigol 2-channel DSO.  It's all you're likely to need for radio stuff up to VHF.

             

            -J.

             

            On 2 Aug 2012, at 09:37, Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...> wrote:



             

             

            To tag on to this discussion…   If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be looking at a digital scope.  What would be minimum specs to be successful for use with radio kits? 

             

            5M samples/sec?  50M samples/sec?

            50V peak-to-peak max?  500V peak-to-peak max?

            What about a stand-alone scope versus a PC-based USB scope?

             

            I'm not going to afford a state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line lab scope.  I'm looking for advice regarding specs for a "You can get pretty far using a scope with these specs in most amateur radio scenarios."

            TIA

            On Thursday, August 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM, KENNETH CHASE wrote:

             

             

            Hi Chris

             

            I as well needed a refresher since college(long time ago). I happen to pick up a used Tektronix, the same model I learned on. I downloaded the manuals and that's all I needed.

             

            73

             

            Ken VA3ABN

             

            From: Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...>
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:12:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

             

            I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

            --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:


            From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

             

            Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off.Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems. I wouldn't trade my two for anything else.73 ... Sid. On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:

             

            I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
            submission:

            I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
            joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
            installed.

            HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
            about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
            especially educational.

            What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
            advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
            what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
            where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
            recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
            spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
            actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
            flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
            bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
            the RF.

            In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
            need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
            troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
            do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

            At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
            shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
            the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
            just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
            trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
            that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

            - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

            --  
            Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
            Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
            Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
            Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks

             

             

             

             

          • Jasmine Strong
            Yes, my Rigol has 100 MHz analogue bandwidth and 1 GHz sample rate, so it can easily handle anything that comes out of an HF Softrock. It s also small and
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
            • 0 Attachment

              Yes, my Rigol has 100 MHz analogue bandwidth and 1 GHz sample rate, so it can easily handle anything that comes out of an HF Softrock.  It's also small and light, and has USB for trace storage, handy for keeping lab notes.

              It'd be a bit less useful for VHF, but scopes with more than 100 MHz bandwidth are substantially more expensive.

              -J.

              On 2 Aug 2012, at 11:14, Stephen West-Fisher <steve@...> wrote:

               

              It’s handy if you go further to have a scope that has a bandwidth which can handle your clock speed so you can see the digital signals. Not a requirement, because you can still tell from the blur that a clock signal is working. I just finished troubleshooting a HPSDR transmitter with an ancient USM-281A so it can be done.

               

              --

              Stephen West-Fisher

              N4IK

               

              From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Strong
              Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:05 PM
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

               

               

              I have a couple hundred bucks worth of Rigol 2-channel DSO.  It's all you're likely to need for radio stuff up to VHF.

               

              -J.

               

              On 2 Aug 2012, at 09:37, Kevin Kleinfelter <kevin@...> wrote:



               

               

              To tag on to this discussion…   If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be looking at a digital scope.  What would be minimum specs to be successful for use with radio kits? 

               

              5M samples/sec?  50M samples/sec?

              50V peak-to-peak max?  500V peak-to-peak max?

              What about a stand-alone scope versus a PC-based USB scope?

               

              I'm not going to afford a state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line lab scope.  I'm looking for advice regarding specs for a "You can get pretty far using a scope with these specs in most amateur radio scenarios."

              TIA

              On Thursday, August 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM, KENNETH CHASE wrote:

               

               

              Hi Chris

               

              I as well needed a refresher since college(long time ago). I happen to pick up a used Tektronix, the same model I learned on. I downloaded the manuals and that's all I needed.

               

              73

               

              Ken VA3ABN

               

              From: Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...>
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:12:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

               

              I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

              --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:


              From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

               

              Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off.Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems. I wouldn't trade my two for anything else.73 ... Sid. On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:

               

              I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
              submission:

              I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
              joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
              installed.

              HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
              about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
              especially educational.

              What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
              advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
              what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
              where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
              recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
              spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
              actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
              flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
              bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
              the RF.

              In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
              need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
              troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
              do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

              At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
              shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
              the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
              just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
              trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
              that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

              - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB

              --  
              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks

               

               

               

               



            • Sid Boyce
              An excellent tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74FWPxg5Q1s&feature=related 73 ... Sid. ... -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                An excellent tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74FWPxg5Q1s&feature=related
                73 ... Sid.

                On 02/08/12 17:12, Chris Tucker wrote:
                 

                I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?

                --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:

                From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 7:52 PM

                 

                Working with Softrock and ancilliary gear, most recently with the K5BCQ SWR/Power meter it was a scope that allowed me to describe what was not happening in the circuit to where K5BCQ was able to pinpoint the source of the problem straight off.

                Over the years I have found a scope invaluable in building radio gear and in troubleshooting mainframe problems.
                I wouldn't trade my two for anything else.
                73 ... Sid.
                 
                On 20/07/12 20:30, Jerry Kaidor wrote:
                 

                I'd like to comment on the debate about scopes versus inspecting into
                submission:

                I'm sure it's true that most problems are inspect-able. Bad solder
                joints, solder splashes, components in backwards, wrong parts
                installed.

                HOWEVER, I think most of us are in this to have fun, and to learn a bit
                about electronics. Intensive inspection IMHO is not fun, nor is it
                especially educational.

                What's educational AND fun is logical troubleshooting. And nothing will
                advance your understanding faster than having that visual window into
                what the electrons are doing. You might pop along the stages and see
                where the signal stops. Or, you might look at a single node, and
                recognize an open circuit or short circuit. Or you might look at some
                spot where there should be no RF, and see RF - with a scope, you can
                actually SEE it. Bypass cap not installed? You can see a stage that's
                flat-topping and go round the transistor looking at - not only the DC
                bias that you would see with a meter - but also the peaks and troughs of
                the RF.

                In a sense, the scope is a crutch. Where an inexperienced guy might
                need a scope, a spectrum analyzer and a synthesized generator to
                troubleshoot some specific problem, an experienced and smart tech might
                do it with a wet fingertip. (NB: don't try that with tube circuitry! )

                At its heart, the scope is a very simple piece of equipment. It just
                shows you a picture of electricity per unit time. There's a knob for
                the sensitivity, and a knob for the time. All the other fancy stuff is
                just elaborations on this theme. Triggering controls, dual trace, quad
                trace, delayed sweep etc etc - 90% of the time, you don't use any of
                that stuff, and it is generally easily ignored.

                - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB



                -- 
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                



                -- 
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                
              • Mike WA8BXN
                Check out Oscilloscope Basics here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43021514/CWTD/TeamspeakChat.html 73/72 - Mike WA8BXN
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Check out "Oscilloscope Basics" here:

                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43021514/CWTD/TeamspeakChat.html


                  73/72 - Mike WA8BXN
                • sunswept12001
                  An excellent resource I think everyone in this group would enjoy (if they don t already know about it) is W2AEW s You Tube channel and also his web site. He
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    An excellent resource I think everyone in this group would enjoy (if they don't already know about it) is W2AEW's You Tube channel and also his web site.

                    He did the "Scopes for Dopes" video on YT posted by the New Jersey Antique Radio Club, and has (51 and counting) excellent videos covering everything from introductory oscilloscope tutorials to advanced scope uses to spectrum analyzers to ham related to... well, you just have to see.

                    Alan is an RF Applications field engineer for Tektronix, an avid ham and he knows his stuff but he makes sure to simply and clearly explain everything, even advanced topics, in a way beginners can grasp and that even old veterans can learn new tricks from.

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?
                  • Gordon JC Pearce
                    ... I find digital scopes to be worse than useless for RF work. For less than 50 quid you can pick up a decent second-hand analogue dual-trace scope which
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 2, 2012
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                      On 02/08/12 17:37, Kevin Kleinfelter wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > To tag on to this discussion… If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be
                      > looking at a digital scope. What would be minimum specs to be
                      > successful for use with radio kits?

                      I find digital 'scopes to be worse than useless for RF work. For less
                      than 50 quid you can pick up a decent second-hand analogue dual-trace
                      'scope which will do pretty near anything you're likely to need, for now.

                      For RF, you almost never need to see *actual* RF waveforms, so don't
                      sweat it if you can't get something that goes to 200MHz. You need to
                      see if it's oscillating. On a digital 'scope, this will appear as a
                      noisy pattern of dots and lines unless you've got an insane sample rate,
                      and on an analogue 'scope it will appear as a broad "ribbon" across the
                      screen with the top and bottom edges distinctly brighter. You can
                      estimate symmetry by comparing how bright the edges are, if you need to.

                      You can never have too many 'scopes. Pick up a cheap second-hand one
                      now, and you can get the DSO later if you really feel you need it.
                      Buying off eBay is absolutely fine, but pick one that's for sale near
                      where you live and go and collect it - make sure you get a demo before
                      you hand over the cash! If the seller isn't prepared to show you it
                      running and let you try it out a bit, don't bother.

                      I have two main 'scopes. My two-channel 20MHz Iwatsu is pretty much
                      never turned off. My four-channel 100MHz Tek DSO has probably been on
                      twice this year...

                      --
                      Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                    • Zack Widup
                      Someone sold me a Hitachi 30 MHz dual-channel scope for $5 at a hamfest a few years ago because it didn t work. I spent maybe a half hour digging into it and
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 3, 2012
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                        Someone sold me a Hitachi 30 MHz dual-channel scope for $5 at a
                        hamfest a few years ago because it didn't work. I spent maybe a half
                        hour digging into it and found a bad 7805 in the power supply section.
                        It's worked great ever since.

                        73, Zack W9SZ

                        On 8/3/12, Gordon JC Pearce <gordon@...> wrote:
                        > On 02/08/12 17:37, Kevin Kleinfelter wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> To tag on to this discussion… If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be
                        >> looking at a digital scope. What would be minimum specs to be
                        >> successful for use with radio kits?
                        >
                        > I find digital 'scopes to be worse than useless for RF work. For less
                        > than 50 quid you can pick up a decent second-hand analogue dual-trace
                        > 'scope which will do pretty near anything you're likely to need, for now.
                        >
                        > For RF, you almost never need to see *actual* RF waveforms, so don't
                        > sweat it if you can't get something that goes to 200MHz. You need to
                        > see if it's oscillating. On a digital 'scope, this will appear as a
                        > noisy pattern of dots and lines unless you've got an insane sample rate,
                        > and on an analogue 'scope it will appear as a broad "ribbon" across the
                        > screen with the top and bottom edges distinctly brighter. You can
                        > estimate symmetry by comparing how bright the edges are, if you need to.
                        >
                        > You can never have too many 'scopes. Pick up a cheap second-hand one
                        > now, and you can get the DSO later if you really feel you need it.
                        > Buying off eBay is absolutely fine, but pick one that's for sale near
                        > where you live and go and collect it - make sure you get a demo before
                        > you hand over the cash! If the seller isn't prepared to show you it
                        > running and let you try it out a bit, don't bother.
                        >
                        > I have two main 'scopes. My two-channel 20MHz Iwatsu is pretty much
                        > never turned off. My four-channel 100MHz Tek DSO has probably been on
                        > twice this year...
                        >
                        > --
                        > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                        >
                      • KQ8M
                        Why can t I ever find a deal like that. The closest I ever got was buying a non working Micronta power supply from Radio Shack back in 1977. Got it for 75%
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 3, 2012
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                          Why can't I ever find a deal like that. The closest I ever got was buying a "non" working Micronta power supply from Radio Shack
                          back in 1977. Got it for 75% off. It only needed the breaker reset. That's the last and only time. lol

                          73,
                          Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                          Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                          kq8m@...

                          AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                          User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                          Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zack Widup
                          Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:03 AM
                          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Oscilloscopes

                          Someone sold me a Hitachi 30 MHz dual-channel scope for $5 at a
                          hamfest a few years ago because it didn't work. I spent maybe a half
                          hour digging into it and found a bad 7805 in the power supply section.
                          It's worked great ever since.

                          73, Zack W9SZ

                          On 8/3/12, Gordon JC Pearce <gordon@...> wrote:
                          > On 02/08/12 17:37, Kevin Kleinfelter wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> To tag on to this discussion. If I were to purchase a scope, I'd be
                          >> looking at a digital scope. What would be minimum specs to be
                          >> successful for use with radio kits?
                          >
                          > I find digital 'scopes to be worse than useless for RF work. For less
                          > than 50 quid you can pick up a decent second-hand analogue dual-trace
                          > 'scope which will do pretty near anything you're likely to need, for now.
                          >
                          > For RF, you almost never need to see *actual* RF waveforms, so don't
                          > sweat it if you can't get something that goes to 200MHz. You need to
                          > see if it's oscillating. On a digital 'scope, this will appear as a
                          > noisy pattern of dots and lines unless you've got an insane sample rate,
                          > and on an analogue 'scope it will appear as a broad "ribbon" across the
                          > screen with the top and bottom edges distinctly brighter. You can
                          > estimate symmetry by comparing how bright the edges are, if you need to.
                          >
                          > You can never have too many 'scopes. Pick up a cheap second-hand one
                          > now, and you can get the DSO later if you really feel you need it.
                          > Buying off eBay is absolutely fine, but pick one that's for sale near
                          > where you live and go and collect it - make sure you get a demo before
                          > you hand over the cash! If the seller isn't prepared to show you it
                          > running and let you try it out a bit, don't bother.
                          >
                          > I have two main 'scopes. My two-channel 20MHz Iwatsu is pretty much
                          > never turned off. My four-channel 100MHz Tek DSO has probably been on
                          > twice this year...
                          >
                          > --
                          > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                          >


                          ------------------------------------

                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • chrismwilsonuk
                          ... I found this video, poor sound quality apart, excellent. Alan is an ex Tek guy and also has a superb series of scope videos on specific subjects in the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 3, 2012
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                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Chris Tucker <kc9szf@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I used an Oscilloscope in School but don't remember much about them.  Is there  website for people like myself that describes different scope options and gives a primer on uses?


                            I found this video, poor sound quality apart, excellent. Alan is an ex Tek guy and also has a superb series of scope videos on specific subjects in the second link.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKMrzTGxLQ

                            http://www.youtube.com/user/w2aew?feature=g-user-u

                            He has been a Godsend to me wile I learn about my scope and spectrum analyser.
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