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Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the transformers in RX II?

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  • g8voip
    Hi, Well if you ACTUALLY read the postings you would have seen one of the first comments I made was that Tom has a degree in RF engineering, which is a far
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
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      Hi,

      Well if you ACTUALLY read the postings you would have seen one of the first comments I made was that Tom has a degree in RF engineering, which is a far higher qualification than most of us have, including myself, yet that does not preclude us having a good working knowledge of basic electronics and design.

      People of all abilities contribute to this group from those which the kit is the first thing they have ever built, through to University Doctors and Professors. Together the pool of resources is available to all, and together increases all of our knowledge.

      If you do not feel welcome, that's up to you, ultimately its only you who looses out. You seem to have a similar opinion of all ham groups, so perhaps we are not unique and it is your own perception or expectation that is the problem?

      73, so long,

      Bob G8VOI

      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "randynnc@..."<randynnc@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gentlemen, I joined this group in the hopes of learning enough about SDR to
      > venture into building, adjusting and operating such a marvel of modern
      > technology. What I've obtained instead is the realization that, even though
      > I managed to obtain and retain enough knowledge of electronics from my 20
      > year stint in the military to allow me to pass the technician and general
      > tests, I will never come up to the standard necessary to be a functioning
      > member of the amateur radio fraternity. Since I do not possess a degree in
      > anything, much less in electronics, I feel ill equipped to be a member of
      > this or any other amateur radio group. So I suppose I shall take my
      > undereducated self over to one of the CB forums where I belong. I now
      > understand why so many people are not stampeding to the pearly gates of
      > hamdom. I will be removing myself from the roster of this prestigious
      > gathering just as soon as my feeble brain can figure out the keystrokes.
      >
      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
      >
      > -----Original message-----
      > From: g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>
      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 04:34:16 EDT
      > Subject: Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the transformers in
      > RX II?
      >
      > Hi Reg,
      >
      > I fully appreciate your comments and perhaps a posting taken in isolation
      > might appear to be somewhat rude, that certainly was not the intention.
      >
      > If you have been following the threads over the past few months I think you
      > might appreciate the sentiments behind the comments a little more.
      >
      > Tom appeared on the forum asking if the SoftRock kit would provide him with
      > a tool to learn more about RF design, along with a list of parameters he
      > wished to investigate and measure.
      >
      > Many of the parameters on that list were only appropriate to digital
      > transmissions, things like bit error rates etc. With even the most basic of
      > appreciation of sound card SDR and the SoftRock kits it would be obvious
      > that everything up until the soundcard is analogue, so BER is not relavent.
      >
      > Many of us have tried to answer all of his questions with the best answers
      > we can, but it has become pretty obvious by his responses on many occasions
      > that he is attempting to start at too higher level and needs to go back and
      > get a good grounding in the basics of electronics and receivers in order to
      > fully appreciate the answers and learn from.
      >
      > The recent threads regarding using LTSpice to simulate the band pass filters
      > is a classic example. In order to use those tools you need to have a good
      > appreciation of the circuit function beyond the obvious simple schematic and
      > components. I am sure the thread however benefitted many as it became a
      > teach in for using the software.
      >
      > These days
      >
    • g8voip
      Hi Gordon, I find a house brick works well on pickle jars :) 73, Bob G8VOI
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
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        Hi Gordon,

        I find a house brick works well on pickle jars :)

        73, Bob G8VOI

        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Gordon JC Pearce <gordon@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 01/07/12 12:13, randynnc@... wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Gentlemen, I joined this group in the hopes of learning enough about SDR
        > > to venture into building, adjusting and operating such a marvel of
        > > modern technology. What I've obtained instead is the realization that,
        > > even though I managed to obtain and retain enough knowledge of
        > > electronics from my 20 year stint in the military to allow me to pass
        > > the technician and general tests, I will never come up to the standard
        > > necessary to be a functioning member of the amateur radio fraternity.
        > > Since I do not possess a degree in anything, much less in electronics, I
        > > feel ill equipped to be a member of this or any other amateur radio
        > > group.
        >
        > See, the problem is not the lack of a degree, the problem is the lack of
        > common sense. You may be familiar with "pickles" - fresh out of
        > graduate officer training, could tell you how to calculate the square
        > root of a jar of pickled onions but you'd have to show them how to get
        > the lid off.
        >
        > You don't need a degree to be an expert in radio and electronics. You
        > need to be able to assess the problem in front of you and apply a little
        > gumption and Google.
        >
        > --
        > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
        >
      • Bruce Tanner
        Randy, with your General ticket you have already cleared the greatest hurdle along the path of escape from Citizens Band land. I have tinkered with radio and
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
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          Randy, with your General ticket you have already cleared the greatest hurdle along the path of escape from Citizens Band land. I have tinkered with radio and electronics since age 12 during the Boy Scout years and have enjoyed the hobby all my life. I have had no formal training along the way, flunked enough math to bar me from entry to the EE program of my choice and instead became a Psychologist in practice for a 30 year career. Never looked back at that when I retired twelve years ago but I still enjoy hours devoted to ham radio activities every day and as I pass the 70 year mark soon, I hope to do so until the end!

          BTW,  (With no offense to the Brits listening in...) on this eve of the Fourth of July, Thank You, for your 20 years of service to our Country.  I am assuming that is the U.S.A.  Just that makes you a taller man than I, so as others have commented, 'Stay with us'... and find the enjoyment and knowledge you can find here.  No one has indicted that the membership on this list should in any way be limited.  If it were I would be among those long ago banned from the reception of the gifts these gentlemen have to offer.

          With sincere regards,

          Bruce, K2BET
          ---------------
          On 7/1/2012 7:13 AM, randynnc@... wrote:
           
          Gentlemen, I joined this group in the hopes of learning enough about SDR to venture into building, adjusting and operating such a marvel of modern technology.  What I've obtained instead is the realization that, even though I managed to obtain and retain enough knowledge of electronics from my 20 year stint in the military to allow me to pass the technician and general tests, I will never come up to the standard necessary to be a functioning member of the amateur radio fraternity.  Since I do not possess a degree in anything, much less in electronics, I feel ill equipped to be a member of this or any other amateur radio group.  So I suppose I shall take my undereducated self over to one of the CB forums where I belong.  I now understand why so many people are not stampeding to the pearly gates of hamdom.  I will be removing myself from the roster of this prestigious gathering just as soon as my feeble brain can figure out the keystrokes. 

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


          -----Original message-----
          From: g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>
          To:
          softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Sent:
          Sun, Jul 1, 2012 04:34:16 EDT
          Subject:
          Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the transformers in RX II?

           

          Hi Reg,

          I fully appreciate your comments and perhaps a posting taken in isolation might appear to be somewhat rude, that certainly was not the intention.

          If you have been following the threads over the past few months I think you might appreciate the sentiments behind the comments a little more.

          Tom appeared on the forum asking if the SoftRock kit would provide him with a tool to learn more about RF design, along with a list of parameters he wished to investigate and measure.

          Many of the parameters on that list were only appropriate to digital transmissions, things like bit error rates etc. With even the most basic of appreciation of sound card SDR and the SoftRock kits it would be obvious that everything up until the soundcard is analogue, so BER is not relavent.

          Many of us have tried to answer all of his questions with the best answers we can, but it has become pretty obvious by his responses on many occasions that he is attempting to start at too higher level and needs to go back and get a good grounding in the basics of electronics and receivers in order to fully appreciate the answers and learn from.

          The recent threads regarding using LTSpice to simulate the band pass filters is a classic example. In order to use those tools you need to have a good appreciation of the circuit function beyond the obvious simple schematic and components. I am sure the thread however benefitted many as it became a teach in for using the software.

          These days with the wealth of information available at your fingertips there is so much you can do for yourself in assisting the learning process.

          Simply pasting a description of the functions of a transformer and stating you understand its purpose, but then going on to post a question that shows you obviously did not understand sort of proves the point.

          People are always willing to assist and provide their time, information and pass on experience. Ultimately for every questino asked and answered many people benefit from the replies.

          I think all I was trying to suggest, primarily for Tom's own benefit was that he learned to walk before sprinting. Without a good foundation in the basics it will be considerably harder to progress.

          73, Bob G8VOI

          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Reginald Beardsley <pulaskite@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm a research geophysicist.  So I've been doing signal processing for 25+ years.  After a 15 yr hiatus, I'm trying to get started playing w/ electronics and especially radio again. 
          >
          > I recently got an Ensemble II RX.  This will be the second kit I've ever built.  The first was a 5 tube AM radio my Dad gave me around age 13.  In the interim I've built from published schematics in the cases where I didn't design the circuit myself.  I've also repaired radios and stereos in addition to my Tek 465 and other gear. 
          >
          > I was a bit appalled by the treatment Tom Hong got.
          >
          > First of all, his name would lead me to think that English might not be his native language.  In such cases, I think it appropriate to make some allowances.  I am beginning to feel the need to make such allowances for native speakers as well, but that's another matter.
          >
          > He asked some simple questions about why specific analog design choices were made.
          >
          > Engineering is an exercise in tradeoffs. Why someone chose to do things a certain way is almost always worth understanding. The single exception being, "We've always done it that way."
          >
          > He attempted to demonstrate that he was capable of understanding a proper answer.  His phrasing was a bit clumsy, but it seemed to me intelligible. 
          >
          > I thought the response rather rude.
          >
          > Radio is dominated by mathematics.  The entire point of a software defined radio is to move as much of the mathematics from the analog domain to the digital domain as possible.  Any recent EE graduate specializing in RF would be expected to be able to write out the equations relevant to many types of modulation.
          >
          > I think it quite unlikely that a recent RF engineer graduate even 20 years ago would be able to do that. They didn't code a convolution. They used a mixer.
          >
          > Geophysicists coded convolutions, but the computers were barely fast enough to do 0-125 Hz, so RF engineers didn't. Consequently, after graduation, most forgot much of the math underlying radio.
          >
          > How many of you can write out the Bessel series expansion for FM modulation?  How about direct sequence spread spectrum?    More important still, can you code the operations correctly? 
          >
          > I don't get the impression that very many people here can write signal processing code.  There are probably some, but lots of people seem very dependent on someone else to write the software. 
          >
          > I would expect a recent MS in EE w/ an emphasis in RF to have spent far more time on DSP than analog details such as the relative merits of transformer and capacitive coupling. Neither of which is *always* the best choice.
          >
          > I don't know anything about Tom Hong beyond his attempt to ask a simple question. But it's entirely possible that he knows a great deal about the software part of SDR, all that math and programming.
          >
          > So perhaps some of you should stop praying on the street corner and look to the mote in thine own eye.
          >
          > Have Fun!
          > Reg
          >



        • Gordon JC Pearce
          ... That s quite alright, I m Scottish not British - and on the 4th of July I ll drink a toast to us getting rid of you bloody horrible lot! -- Gordonjcp
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
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            On 01/07/12 16:09, Bruce Tanner wrote:

            > BTW, (With no offense to the Brits listening in...)

            That's quite alright, I'm Scottish not British - and on the 4th of July
            I'll drink a toast to us getting rid of you bloody horrible lot!

            --
            Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
          • Bruce Tanner
            I love that, Gordon! It is really ironic that I had actually typed in a sentence to the effect that the Brits might well be celebrating as well, for that
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
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              I love that, Gordon!  It is really ironic that I had actually typed in a sentence to the effect that the 'Brits' might well be celebrating as well, for that very reason. Then I deleted it... for fear of offending...mostly my own countrymen!  Seems it gets more poignant as the years go by! :-)

              Regards,
              Bruce, K2BET


              On 7/1/2012 3:36 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
               

              On 01/07/12 16:09, Bruce Tanner wrote:

              > BTW, (With no offense to the Brits listening in...)

              That's quite alright, I'm Scottish not British - and on the 4th of July
              I'll drink a toast to us getting rid of you bloody horrible lot!

              --
              Gordonjcp MM0YEQ



              __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 7262 (20120701) __________

              The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

              http://www.eset.com


            • tomshong
              Hi all, Over the weekend, I managed to get my RX II to pick up signal. I took it to a local ham radio store and hooked it up to one of their big antenna on the
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 2, 2012
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                Hi all,

                Over the weekend, I managed to get my RX II to pick up signal. I took it to a local ham radio store and hooked it up to one of their big antenna on the roof. Turn out it was a simple driver issue with the HDSDR talking to AtTiny.

                I appreciate all the criticisms, and I will take them to heart. I am sure some of my questions may seen rather rudimentary to the experts here, but I also know there are plenty of young men who are aspired to learn all there is about RF but are too intimidated to overcome the learning curve. I am sure people like us will benefit greatly from the vast experience passed on by experts like you.

                So please, be patient with us young folks. we all gotta start somewhere. :P

                I do apologize if I came across if though I am expecting someone to solve the problems for me. I am not. I am only asking for direction to navigate thru the maze of information that are available out there. And to make sure I stay on the right track. If that make sense.

                Yes, English is not my first language, but it has been my primary language the last 20 years of my life.

                A little about my background. Yes, I do have a MS in Electrical engineering, however, I have a very limited hands on experience with the actual hardware. I designed build and tested my first LNA and differential filter when I was interning at a RF group at Conextant way back in 1999. I will say it was this RF engineer from Cambridge UK in my group that got me interested in pursuit my MS in RF later.

                However, since then, most of my school projects were design simulations (ADS, Spice, etc), and most of my last day job at Boeing entails project management and technical writing where Excel sheets and PowerPoint dominates my day to day life. It wasn't until I start spending my own time and dime since the start of my unemployment that I start playing with the hardware. Better sooner or later.

                Here's my resume, should you be interested to see it.

                http://www.flickr.com/photos/52479207@N05/7490230376/in/photostream

                I think, at this point, I probably have done enough investigation on the hardware side of the SDR. I am going to try spend most of July analyze the uC and software side of things that make the SDR tick.

                Enjoy your 4th of July if you are in the US. Think I might to Vegas for the day.

                Stay cool.

                Tom





                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <randynnc
                > Subject: Re: Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the transformers in RX II?
                >
                >
                > I've never had any formal training so there's no hope for me.
                > But one thing I've learned in these groups is to ignore posts I read that seem offensive, they were most likely not meant that way.
                > Or "Send" was pressed before reason kicked in.
                >
                > And if threads become boring then there is no need to read further.
                >
                > Stay with us, your help may be needed some day.
                >
                > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                >
                > > Gentlemen, I joined this group in the hopes of learning enough about SDR to
                > > venture into building, adjusting and operating such a marvel of modern
                > > technology. What I've obtained instead is the realization that, even though
                > > I managed to obtain and retain enough knowledge of electronics from my 20
                > > year stint in the military to allow me to pass the technician and general
                > > tests, I will never come up to the standard necessary to be a functioning
                > > member of the amateur radio fraternity. Since I do not possess a degree in
                > > anything, much less in electronics, I feel ill equipped to be a member of
                > > this or any other amateur radio group. So I suppose I shall take my
                > > undereducated self over to one of the CB forums where I belong. I now
                > > understand why so many people are not stampeding to the pearly gates of
                > > hamdom. I will be removing myself from the roster of this prestigious
                > > gathering just as soon as my feeble brain can figure out the keystrokes.
                > >
                > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
                > >
                > > -----Original message-----
                > > From: g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>
                > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 04:34:16 EDT
                > > Subject: Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the transformers in
                > > RX II?
                > >
                > > Hi Reg,
                > >
                > > I fully appreciate your comments and perhaps a posting taken in isolation
                > > might appear to be somewhat rude, that certainly was not the intention.
                > >
                > > If you have been following the threads over the past few months I think you
                > > might appreciate the sentiments behind the comments a little more.
                > >
                > > Tom appeared on the forum asking if the SoftRock kit would provide him with
                > > a tool to learn more about RF design, along with a list of parameters he
                > > wished to investigate and measure.
                > >
                > > Many of the parameters on that list were only appropriate to digital
                > > transmissions, things like bit error rates etc. With even the most basic of
                > > appreciation of sound card SDR and the SoftRock kits it would be obvious
                > > that everything up until the soundcard is analogue, so BER is not relavent.
                > >
                > > Many of us have tried to answer all of his questions with the best answers
                > > we can, but it has become pretty obvious by his responses on many occasions
                > > that he is attempting to start at too higher level and needs to go back and
                > > get a good grounding in the basics of electronics and receivers in order to
                > > fully appreciate the answers and learn from.
                > >
                > > The recent threads regarding using LTSpice to simulate the band pass filters
                > > is a classic example. In order to use those tools you need to have a good
                > > appreciation of the circuit function beyond the obvious simple schematic and
                > > components. I am sure the thread however benefitted many as it became a
                > > teach in for using the software.
                > >
                > > These days
                > >
                >
              • Jerry Kaidor
                ... *** Here s something to read: http://www.arrl.org/software-defined-radio Go down the page to Signals, Samples and Stuff: A DSP Tutorial by Doug Smith,
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  >
                  > I think, at this point, I probably have done enough investigation on the
                  > hardware side of the SDR. I am going to try spend most of July analyze the
                  > uC and software side of things that make the SDR tick.

                  *** Here's something to read:

                  http://www.arrl.org/software-defined-radio

                  Go down the page to
                  Signals, Samples and Stuff: A DSP Tutorial by Doug Smith, KF6DX/7

                  ... Which is a four part QEX article that goes through the math
                  underlying an SDR. Maybe you can explain it to me after you read it :).

                  - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB






                  >
                  > Enjoy your 4th of July if you are in the US. Think I might to Vegas for
                  > the day.
                  >
                  > Stay cool.
                  >
                  > Tom
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: <randynnc
                  >> Subject: Re: Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the
                  >> transformers in RX II?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I've never had any formal training so there's no hope for me.
                  >> But one thing I've learned in these groups is to ignore posts I read
                  >> that seem offensive, they were most likely not meant that way.
                  >> Or "Send" was pressed before reason kicked in.
                  >>
                  >> And if threads become boring then there is no need to read further.
                  >>
                  >> Stay with us, your help may be needed some day.
                  >>
                  >> 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                  >>
                  >> > Gentlemen, I joined this group in the hopes of learning enough about
                  >> SDR to
                  >> > venture into building, adjusting and operating such a marvel of modern
                  >> > technology. What I've obtained instead is the realization that, even
                  >> though
                  >> > I managed to obtain and retain enough knowledge of electronics from my
                  >> 20
                  >> > year stint in the military to allow me to pass the technician and
                  >> general
                  >> > tests, I will never come up to the standard necessary to be a
                  >> functioning
                  >> > member of the amateur radio fraternity. Since I do not possess a
                  >> degree in
                  >> > anything, much less in electronics, I feel ill equipped to be a member
                  >> of
                  >> > this or any other amateur radio group. So I suppose I shall take my
                  >> > undereducated self over to one of the CB forums where I belong. I now
                  >> > understand why so many people are not stampeding to the pearly gates
                  >> of
                  >> > hamdom. I will be removing myself from the roster of this prestigious
                  >> > gathering just as soon as my feeble brain can figure out the
                  >> keystrokes.
                  >> >
                  >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
                  >> >
                  >> > -----Original message-----
                  >> > From: g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>
                  >> > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  >> > Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 04:34:16 EDT
                  >> > Subject: Flag this message [softrock40] Re: why we need the
                  >> transformers in
                  >> > RX II?
                  >> >
                  >> > Hi Reg,
                  >> >
                  >> > I fully appreciate your comments and perhaps a posting taken in
                  >> isolation
                  >> > might appear to be somewhat rude, that certainly was not the
                  >> intention.
                  >> >
                  >> > If you have been following the threads over the past few months I
                  >> think you
                  >> > might appreciate the sentiments behind the comments a little more.
                  >> >
                  >> > Tom appeared on the forum asking if the SoftRock kit would provide him
                  >> with
                  >> > a tool to learn more about RF design, along with a list of parameters
                  >> he
                  >> > wished to investigate and measure.
                  >> >
                  >> > Many of the parameters on that list were only appropriate to digital
                  >> > transmissions, things like bit error rates etc. With even the most
                  >> basic of
                  >> > appreciation of sound card SDR and the SoftRock kits it would be
                  >> obvious
                  >> > that everything up until the soundcard is analogue, so BER is not
                  >> relavent.
                  >> >
                  >> > Many of us have tried to answer all of his questions with the best
                  >> answers
                  >> > we can, but it has become pretty obvious by his responses on many
                  >> occasions
                  >> > that he is attempting to start at too higher level and needs to go
                  >> back and
                  >> > get a good grounding in the basics of electronics and receivers in
                  >> order to
                  >> > fully appreciate the answers and learn from.
                  >> >
                  >> > The recent threads regarding using LTSpice to simulate the band pass
                  >> filters
                  >> > is a classic example. In order to use those tools you need to have a
                  >> good
                  >> > appreciation of the circuit function beyond the obvious simple
                  >> schematic and
                  >> > components. I am sure the thread however benefitted many as it became
                  >> a
                  >> > teach in for using the software.
                  >> >
                  >> > These days
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
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