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Re: Toroid Inductance

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  • Sam Ammons
    Yes, that is how it works. You can get a cheap meter that measures inductance and play around with the windings but what I found the easiest to do was wind the
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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      Yes, that is how it works. You can get a cheap meter that measures inductance and play around with the windings but what I found the easiest to do was wind the chokes first, they are good practice since they are so easy. Then wind the primaries on the other transformers, thats easy too. After winding the primary and the chokes, strip and tin the leads, maybe label them p1/p2 on the transformers. Next wind the secondaries and strip and tin the ends. Identify the s1/s2 and label them too. Check for shorts as well when identifying because it is much easier to do this before mounting the transformer. Also a lot easier to repair before installing on a pcb. You could get some different color finger nail polish to identify the leads too.

      One thing to do is to make a chart on a piece of paper with the 3 toroids traced on the paper. 3 different sizes and it is easy to wind the wrong wire on the wrong toroid. The #30 wire is the thinest wire.

      The toroids are not hard to do if you take your time and before starting, read the tutorials available in the links on the assembly notes page.

      Sam

      (not an expert, just telling what I learned)
    • Bernie Hunt
      http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Digital-Inductance-Capacitance-VC6243/dp/B0 0063SAQW These are pretty handy and the price is pretty good. Bernie From:
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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        http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Digital-Inductance-Capacitance-VC6243/dp/B00063SAQW

         

        These are pretty handy and the price is pretty good.

         

        Bernie

         

         

        From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Ammons
        Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:21 PM
        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [softrock40] Re: Toroid Inductance

         

         

        Yes, that is how it works. You can get a cheap meter that measures inductance and play around with the windings but what I found the easiest to do was wind the chokes first, they are good practice since they are so easy. Then wind the primaries on the other transformers, thats easy too. After winding the primary and the chokes, strip and tin the leads, maybe label them p1/p2 on the transformers. Next wind the secondaries and strip and tin the ends. Identify the s1/s2 and label them too. Check for shorts as well when identifying because it is much easier to do this before mounting the transformer. Also a lot easier to repair before installing on a pcb. You could get some different color finger nail polish to identify the leads too.

        One thing to do is to make a chart on a piece of paper with the 3 toroids traced on the paper. 3 different sizes and it is easy to wind the wrong wire on the wrong toroid. The #30 wire is the thinest wire.

        The toroids are not hard to do if you take your time and before starting, read the tutorials available in the links on the assembly notes page.

        Sam

        (not an expert, just telling what I learned)

      • Jasmine Strong
        If you have a capacitance meter function on your multimeter- a lot do these days- a little math and a dummy cap can measure inductors :-) -J., wheatstone
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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          If you have a capacitance meter function on your multimeter-  a lot do these days-  a little math and a dummy cap can measure inductors :-)

          -J.,
          wheatstone bridge enthusiast

          On 2 Feb 2012, at 13:18, John Williams wrote:

           

          99.9999% of the kit builders do not have fancy test equipment...

          Wind the inductors per the directions, tin the ends and use a VOM to insure you have good solder connections to the board and you will be good to go... 

          A suggestion - on the transformer winding, I have begun using different color wire on the secondaries. You can get green #30 wire at radio shack. I find it easier to keep them sorted out that way.

          John - ke5ssh

          On 2/2/2012 2:59 PM, lopezd2@... wrote:

           

          I am at the point where I need to start winding my toroids but I don't have an inductance meter. How do people handle this? Do I just take it for granted that the number of turns will give the proper inductance?

          Thanks de N6RI


          -- 
          
          John Williams
          
          KE5SSH - ham since 2007
          WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
          


        • Sam Ammons
          You can get those off ebay from hong kong for $32 delivered, inductance/capacitance/resistance/transistor checker. The surface mount probes can be had for $5.
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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            You can get those off ebay from hong kong for $32 delivered, inductance/capacitance/resistance/transistor checker. The surface mount probes can be had for $5.
            Sam
          • G4FAW
            I bought one of these from China (e-bay 260816756900) Brilliant, measures very small caps and inductors. Have used it for building an Ensemble RxTx and found
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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              I bought one of these from China (e-bay 260816756900) Brilliant, measures very small caps and inductors. Have used it for building an Ensemble RxTx and found that the number of turns specified in the instructions is perfect. Take one turn off or add one turn and it is very obvious.........

              Hope this helps someone

              73 de Dave G4FAW

              On 02/02/2012 22:15, Sam Ammons wrote: You can get those off ebay from hong kong for $32 delivered, inductance/capacitance/resistance/transistor checker. The surface mount probes can be had for $5.
              Sam
            • falcongsr
              On my RX Ensemble, I swept all of my band pass filters with a 2-port VNA and found that the pass band is so wide that it doesn t matter in the ham bands. I
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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                On my RX Ensemble, I swept all of my band pass filters with a 2-port VNA and found that the pass band is so wide that it doesn't matter in the ham bands.

                I might have been able to eek out 1-2 dB of RX performance at the switch points of the ABPF (one such switch point is at 8MHz) but it isn't worth the trouble since you're S/N ratio is determined by atmospheric conditions at that frequency, instead of RX performance.

                When I originally built the kit I didn't have access to an LC meter or anything, so I just followed the number of turns and put it together.

                On my HF Packer amp low-pass filter, I used an LC meter when winding the toroids and then used the 2-port VNA to verify, and I found my 10m filter had a little more insertion loss despite getting the right number of windings and measured inductance. It turns out the way I mounted them and spread the coils was not as shown in the instructions so I dorked up the inductance when I mounted them. I pulled them off the board and re-wound and re-mounted correctly and it was spot on.

                Just some food for thought.

                Joe KJ6QBA

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "lopezd2@..." <brewgod23@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am at the point where I need to start winding my toroids but I don't have an inductance meter. How do people handle this? Do I just take it for granted that the number of turns will give the proper inductance?
                >
                > Thanks de N6RI
                >
              • Taka Sugi
                I usually use URL site: http://toroids.info/ This site is very usefull to calculate Troide Inductance. Of courese,I usually@check actual Troide by simple
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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                  I usually use URL site:
                  http://toroids.info/
                  This site is very usefull to calculate Troide Inductance.
                  Of courese,I usually@check actual Troide by simple LC-meter kit
                  http://www.aade.com/lcmeter.htm
                  and "SDR-Kits VNWA".

                  73 DE JA1TLH/Taka
                • Curtis Tooley
                  yep
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 2, 2012
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                    yep
                  • Chris
                    Hi Taka/All, Thanks for the info on http://toroids.info/. Out of curiosity and being prone to asking stupid questions :) it doesn t seem to ask for the size of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                      Hi Taka/All,

                      Thanks for the info on http://toroids.info/.

                      Out of curiosity and being prone to asking stupid questions :) it doesn't seem to ask for the size of wire, does it not matter what thickness of wire is used i.e. #30.

                      As an electroncs beginner I would have thought it would need that to calculate inductance would it not?

                      73

                      Chris
                      EI1628


                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Taka Sugi" <taka_sugi1206@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I usually use URL site:
                      > http://toroids.info/
                      > This site is very usefull to calculate Troide Inductance.
                      > Of courese,I usually@check actual Troide by simple LC-meter kit
                      > http://www.aade.com/lcmeter.htm
                      > and "SDR-Kits VNWA".
                      >
                      > 73 DE JA1TLH/Taka
                      >
                    • Albert Gerheim
                      just count the turns, and don t put in any extra kinks or curls. All the magnetic flux goes into the toroid. The force be with you! On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                        just count the turns, and don't put in any extra kinks or curls.  All the magnetic flux goes into the toroid.  

                        The force be with you!  


                        On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 3:59 PM, lopezd2@... <brewgod23@...> wrote:
                         

                        I am at the point where I need to start winding my toroids but I don't have an inductance meter. How do people handle this? Do I just take it for granted that the number of turns will give the proper inductance?

                        Thanks de N6RI




                        --
                        Al Gerheim
                        Adopt a Homeless Pet
                        http://www.petfinder.com
                      • Leon Heller
                        ... If you look at the inductance formulae you will see that the wire size has a negligible effect on inductance. It does affect the Q value of the inductor,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                          On 03/02/2012 13:12, Chris wrote:
                          > Hi Taka/All,
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info on http://toroids.info/.
                          >
                          > Out of curiosity and being prone to asking stupid questions :) it
                          > doesn't seem to ask for the size of wire, does it not matter what
                          > thickness of wire is used i.e. #30.
                          >
                          > As an electroncs beginner I would have thought it would need that to
                          > calculate inductance would it not?

                          If you look at the inductance formulae you will see that the wire size
                          has a negligible effect on inductance. It does affect the Q value of the
                          inductor, thinner wire reduces the Q.

                          73, Leon
                          --
                          Leon Heller
                          G1HSM
                        • Bernie Hunt
                          The bigger wire size issue is how many turns will that wire size make on the specified toroid. I ve seen a couple of calculators around the will determine how
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                            The bigger wire size issue is how many turns will that wire size make on the specified toroid. I’ve seen a couple of calculators around the will determine how many winds a wire size will make on a specific toroid.

                             

                            Bernie

                             

                            From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leon Heller
                            Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:38 AM
                            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Toroid Inductance

                             

                             

                            On 03/02/2012 13:12, Chris wrote:

                            > Hi Taka/All,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the info on http://toroids.info/.
                            >
                            > Out of curiosity and being prone to asking stupid questions :) it
                            > doesn't seem to ask for the size of wire, does it not matter what
                            > thickness of wire is used i.e. #30.
                            >
                            > As an electroncs beginner I would have thought it would need that to
                            > calculate inductance would it not?

                            If you look at the inductance formulae you will see that the wire size
                            has a negligible effect on inductance. It does affect the Q value of the
                            inductor, thinner wire reduces the Q.

                            73, Leon
                            --
                            Leon Heller
                            G1HSM

                          • Alan
                            ... From: Bernie Subject: RE: [softrock40] Re: Toroid Inductance ... Like this one 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Bernie
                              Subject: RE: [softrock40] Re: Toroid Inductance


                              > I've seen a couple of calculators around the will
                              > determine how many winds a wire size will make on a specific toroid.
                              >

                              Like this one <http://www.dl5swb.de/html/mini_ring_core_calculator.htm>

                              73 Alan G4ZFQ
                            • Taka Sugi
                              Hello, Chris Cu wire dia does not matter for HF low power circuit, less than 30MHz/1w. Dia affects to the Q(quality factor) and resistance of the coil. DE
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 5, 2012
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                                Hello, Chris

                                Cu wire dia does not matter for HF low power circuit,
                                less than 30MHz/1w. Dia affects to the Q(quality factor)
                                and resistance of the coil.

                                DE JA1TLH/Taka
                              • Chris
                                OK, thanks for the info Taka. 73 Chris EI1628
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 6, 2012
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                                  OK, thanks for the info Taka.

                                  73

                                  Chris
                                  EI1628

                                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Taka Sugi" <taka_sugi1206@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hello, Chris
                                  >
                                  > Cu wire dia does not matter for HF low power circuit,
                                  > less than 30MHz/1w. Dia affects to the Q(quality factor)
                                  > and resistance of the coil.
                                  >
                                  > DE JA1TLH/Taka
                                  >
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