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Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

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  • Sid Boyce
    I ve replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know. Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 29, 2011
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      I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
      Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
      What was the difficult part of it?
      73 ... Sid.

      On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:
       

      Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

      Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

      Thanks for your consideration,

      Brent, AB1LF



      -- 
      Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
      Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
      Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
      Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
      
    • Jas Strong
      They re unnecessarily small pads and you have to deform the leads quite a lot to get them to fit. Couldn t it just use ordinary TO92 footprints? They re much
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 29, 2011
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        They're unnecessarily small pads and you have to deform the leads quite a lot to get them to fit.

        Couldn't it just use ordinary TO92 footprints?  They're much larger and more widely spaced.  Or, like, dude, get over the fear of SMT and use the SOT23-  we have to solder that SOT23 (or whatever it is) regulator anyway.

        -J.

        On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
         

        I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
        Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
        What was the difficult part of it?
        73 ... Sid.



        On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:
         

        Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

        Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

        Thanks for your consideration,

        Brent, AB1LF



        -- 
        Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
        Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
        Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
        Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
        


      • Ethan Miller K8GU
        ... I had this problem with one of the transformer pads when I removed the transformer for test and rework. But, I ve replaced a lot of parts without
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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          > ...compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors... Has anyone else had a similar issue?

          I had this problem with one of the transformer pads when I removed the
          transformer for test and rework. But, I've replaced a lot of parts
          without difficulty.

          >  Or, like, dude, get over the fear of SMT and use the SOT23-  we have to solder that SOT23 (or whatever it is) regulator anyway.

          Is the SMT version of the BS170 capable of enough dissipation to be
          used in the PA?  Does it have enough surface area to be effectively
          heatsunk?  I can conjecture answers to those questions, but the point
          remains that SMT components are not universally superior to their
          through-hole counterparts just as I pointed out with the inductors.

          I don't know why many of the design decisions in the SoftRocks were
          made, but the choice of certain parts and footprints strikes me as a
          minor irritation at worst.

          73,

          --Ethan, K8GU/3.


          --
          http://www.k8gu.com/
          Repair.  Re-use.  Re-purpose.  Recycle.
        • Brent DeWitt
          Clearing the holes for the new part. -----Original Message----- From: Sid Boyce Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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            Clearing the holes for the new part.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Sid Boyce
            Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

             

            I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
            Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
            What was the difficult part of it?
            73 ... Sid.

            On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

             

            Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

            Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

            Thanks for your consideration,

            Brent, AB1LF



            -- 
            Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
            Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
            Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
            Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
            

            
            
          • Tony Parks
            I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife s sewing kit to clear the small holes. The pin has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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              I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

              Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

              I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

              73,
              --
              Tony Parks
              kb9yig@...
              http://www.kb9yig.com
              
              


              On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 09:49 -0500, Brent DeWitt wrote:
               
              Clearing the holes for the new part.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Sid Boyce
              Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

               
              I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
              Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
              What was the difficult part of it?
              73 ... Sid.

              On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

               
              Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

              Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

              Thanks for your consideration,

              Brent, AB1LF






              -- 
              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
              


              
              
            • Sid Boyce
              The size of the desoldering iron didn t look particularly suitable, so I cut the legs off and removed them one by one without clearing the holes. Next I
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                The size of the desoldering iron didn't look particularly suitable, so I cut the legs off and removed them one by one without clearing the holes.

                Next I offered an outer leg and soldered it a little ways into the hole, then did the same for each of the other 2 legs and repeated the process until all 3 legs were fully through and the excess could be clipped off.

                Quite a bit more protracted than working with the MMBF170 SMT version but the SMT version's power dissipation is only 300mW against 830mW for the BS170.
                73 ... Sid.

                On 30/11/11 14:49, Brent DeWitt wrote:  

                Clearing the holes for the new part.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sid Boyce
                Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                 

                I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
                Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
                What was the difficult part of it?
                73 ... Sid.

                On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

                 

                Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

                Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

                Thanks for your consideration,

                Brent, AB1LF



                -- 
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                


                -- 
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                
            • cbayona
              I have a small hand drill, basically a shaft with a bit holder one end and a pad that allows the shaft to rotate freely. It does take a little practice so you
              Message 7 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                I have a small hand drill, basically a shaft with a bit holder one end and a pad that allows the shaft to rotate freely. It does take a little practice so you drill the lead and not the hole. But once the skill is mastered it's awful handy not to have to keep re-heating the pad and possibly cause damage to it.

                Something similar to this, mine is a little more compact;
                http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/exl/exl55661.htm  
                >

                At 09:19 AM 11/30/2011, you wrote:


                I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

                Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

                I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

                73,
                --
                Tony Parks
                kb9yig@...
                
                http://www.kb9yig.com
                

                Cecil
                k5nwa
                http://www.softrockradio.org/ > <  http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ >
                http://parts.softrockradio.org/ >

                Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

              • Sid Boyce
                I suppose a shaved down toothpick would do the job equally well. 73 ... Sid. ... -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot, Emeritus
                Message 8 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                  I suppose a shaved down toothpick would do the job equally well.
                  73 ... Sid.
                   
                  On 30/11/11 15:19, Tony Parks wrote:
                   

                  I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

                  Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

                  I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

                  73,

                  --
                  Tony Parks
                  kb9yig@...
                  http://www.kb9yig.com
                  
                  


                  On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 09:49 -0500, Brent DeWitt wrote:

                   
                  Clearing the holes for the new part.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sid Boyce
                  Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                   
                  I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
                  Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
                  What was the difficult part of it?
                  73 ... Sid.

                  On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

                   
                  Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

                  Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

                  Thanks for your consideration,

                  Brent, AB1LF






                  -- 
                  Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                  Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                  




                  -- 
                  Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                  Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                  
                • Brent DeWitt
                  VERY fun and useful Tony! Please understand that I greatly appreciate your great little radio and all the fun that comes with using it. I ll get one of those
                  Message 9 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                    VERY fun and useful Tony!  Please understand that I greatly appreciate your great little radio and all the fun that comes with using it.  I'll get one of those pins......

                    73,
                    Brent, AB1LF

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Tony Parks
                    Sent: Nov 30, 2011 10:19 AM
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                     

                    I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

                    Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

                    I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

                    73,

                    --
                    Tony Parks
                    kb9yig@...
                    http://www.kb9yig.com
                    
                    


                    On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 09:49 -0500, Brent DeWitt wrote:

                     
                    Clearing the holes for the new part.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Sid Boyce
                    Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                     
                    I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
                    Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
                    What was the difficult part of it?
                    73 ... Sid.

                    On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

                     
                    Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

                    Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

                    Thanks for your consideration,

                    Brent, AB1LF






                    -- 
                    Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                    Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                    Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                    Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                    


                    
                    
                  • Roger Critchlow
                    ... held with needle nosed pliers in one hand while the other hand wields the soldering iron. -- rec --
                    Message 10 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                      On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Brent DeWitt <bdewitt@...> wrote:
                       

                      VERY fun and useful Tony!  Please understand that I greatly appreciate your great little radio and all the fun that comes with using it.  I'll get one of those pins......

                      A piece of cut off lead from another installed part will often do the job, held with needle nosed pliers in one hand while the other hand wields the soldering iron.

                      -- rec --
                    • Jasmine Strong
                      Oh absolutely, it s a nifty little radio for sure. But we are engineers and we always want to improve everything, don t we? -J.
                      Message 11 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                        Oh absolutely, it's a nifty little radio for sure.  But we are engineers and we always want to improve everything, don't we?

                        -J.

                        On 30 Nov 2011, at 09:34, Brent DeWitt wrote:

                         

                        VERY fun and useful Tony!  Please understand that I greatly appreciate your great little radio and all the fun that comes with using it.  I'll get one of those pins......

                        73,
                        Brent, AB1LF

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Tony Parks
                        Sent: Nov 30, 2011 10:19 AM
                        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                         

                        I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

                        Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

                        I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

                        73,

                        --
                        Tony Parks
                        kb9yig@...
                        http://www.kb9yig.com
                        
                        


                        On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 09:49 -0500, Brent DeWitt wrote:

                         
                        Clearing the holes for the new part.



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sid Boyce
                        Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
                        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                         
                        I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
                        Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
                        What was the difficult part of it?
                        73 ... Sid.

                        On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

                         
                        Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

                        Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

                        Thanks for your consideration,

                        Brent, AB1LF






                        -- 
                        Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                        Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                        Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                        Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                        





                      • Preston Douglas
                        Problem with all those techniques is that you risk damaging the through-hole plating or the little rings at the top or bottom of the hole. I guess I cheat on
                        Message 12 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                          Problem with all those techniques is that you risk damaging the through-hole plating or the little rings at the top or bottom of the hole.  

                          I guess I cheat on this!  I use a Pace power vacuum desoldering machine.  It cleans the hole, right around the lead, and allows the old part to be lifted clean out, and leaves a clean hole for the new part.  I bought mine with spare tips and filters on Ebay for about a hundred dollars.  Very worth it.  Mainly it is a soldering iron with a hole in the tip connected by tubing to a box with a heater control and a small vacuum motor.  Not much to it, but when you need it, it's really good to have in the shack.  Too bad it's less effective on surface mount parts, but those can be removed pretty easily with other techniques anyway.


                          Preston Douglas

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Roger Critchlow <rec@...>
                          To: softrock40 <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:13 am
                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                           


                          On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Brent DeWitt <bdewitt@...> wrote:
                           
                          VERY fun and useful Tony!  Please understand that I greatly appreciate your great little radio and all the fun that comes with using it.  I'll get one of those pins......

                          A piece of cut off lead from another installed part will often do the job, held with needle nosed pliers in one hand while the other hand wields the soldering iron.

                          -- rec --
                        • Alan
                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size ... A stainless pin or needle is far better, it will not tin. You can leave it in place until the
                          Message 13 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size


                            >>
                            >> A piece of cut off lead from another installed part will often do the
                            >> job,
                            > held with needle nosed pliers in one hand while the other hand wields the
                            > soldering iron.
                            >

                            A stainless pin or needle is far better, it will not tin. You can leave it
                            in place until the solder freezes.
                            Sometimes solder braid will work.
                            The boards are good quality, it does (usually) take a lot to damage them.

                            73 Alan G4ZFQ
                          • Ken Chase
                            I always use a pointy toothpick and wick once the toothpick is through the other side. 73 Ken ... From: Sid Boyce To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 14 of 15 , Nov 30, 2011
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                              I always use a pointy toothpick and wick once the toothpick is through the other side.
                               
                              73
                               
                              Ken
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Sid Boyce
                              Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:42 AM
                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                               

                              I suppose a shaved down toothpick would do the job equally well.
                              73 ... Sid.
                               
                              On 30/11/11 15:19, Tony Parks wrote:

                               

                              I use a stainless steel sewing pin from my wife's sewing kit to clear the small holes.  The pin  has a plastic ball on one end and has a diameter just a bit greater than the component lead diameter so it provides clearance for the next lead to go in the hole.  Sometimes it is a bit of a pain to get the old lead out but pushing one the end of the lead to be removed with the pin in conjunction with soldering iron heat has always worked for me.

                              Sorry about the small hole sizes and the problems people have had with the present version of the circuit boards.

                              I do hope the kits are fun and useful.

                              73,

                              --
                              Tony Parks
                              kb9yig@...
                              http://www.kb9yig.com
                              
                              


                              On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 09:49 -0500, Brent DeWitt wrote:

                              Clearing the holes for the new part.



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Sid Boyce
                              Sent: Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM
                              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] kit transistor annular rig size

                               
                              I've replaced 3 without difficulty. No one else has raised the issue as far as I know.
                              Finding that some pairs were not closely matched, a number of guys have replaced them.
                              What was the difficult part of it?
                              73 ... Sid.

                              On 30/11/11 03:09, BD wrote:

                              Having put together a couple of different kits now, my impression is that the SMD soldering is child's play compared to the tiny annular ring size for discrete transistors. I haven't found it a problem for initial build, but replacing a bad BS170 can be a real strain. Has anyone else had a similar issue?

                              Tony, would it be possible to use a slightly larger layout pattern for the discrete transistors?

                              Thanks for your consideration,

                              Brent, AB1LF






                              -- 
                              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                              Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                              




                              -- 
                              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
                              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                              Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                              

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