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Ensemble RXTX Rx I / Q

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  • Joel Black
    Ok, I am at my wit s end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing, everything is in
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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      Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
      build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
      everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
      PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.

      Yes, I followed the directions on this page:
      http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/ensemble/07_opamp.htm. About 1/3 down the
      page, Robby has the following, "In both the RX op amp and TX QSE
      sections, the jumper links on the I/Q input and outputs should ideally
      be fitted crossed over. That provides compatibility with all versions of
      PowerSDR. For Rocky and Winrad it is necessary to use the 'swap IQ'
      functions in their set up. If you jumper them straight across fine for
      Rocky and Winrad, but you will not be able to use any version of PSDR.
      (Author wired for Rocky). Some builders (author included) have
      encountered issues in this setup and discovered that the only the TX
      leads should be crossed, leaving the RX leads uncrossed. Be prepared to
      change these should you encounter this issue."

      As a matter of fact, I started crossed, moved to straight and had the
      same problem. I went back to crossed, same problem. Back to straight,
      same problem. I have rolled left and right (tip and ring) on the
      soundcard multiple times. When I have the soundcard input incorrect, I
      receive nothing, when it's right, it's all on the wrong sideband. What
      am I missing?

      I can use WinradHD and swap the I / Q channels, but then I'm about 3MHz
      low in frequency. I know next to nothing about WinradHD as I have been
      using PowerSDR since I built the SR Lite.

      Thanks,
      Joel - W4JBB
    • Dave Matthews
      ... Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it. I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky. I couldn t figure
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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        On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
         

        Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
        build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
        everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
        PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.

        Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


        Dave
         
      • John Greusel
        Joel, I think you may have only one half of the IQ signal present. Switching the tip and ring shouldn t completely mute the receiver it should invert the
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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          Joel,
          I think you may have only one half of the IQ signal present.
          Switching the tip and ring shouldn't completely mute the receiver it
          should invert the sideband position. Check your soldering from the
          computer side of the audio cable up through the connector and into the
          receiver.
          John
          Kc9ojv

          Sent from John's Ipod
        • Joel Black
          Yeah, I ve done that - multiple times. Right now, I m listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847. To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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            Yeah,

            I've done that - multiple times.

            Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847.  To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.  This would be correct if it's a USB to LSB thing.  BTW, the FT-847 is good to go.

            Tired of screwing with this for now...

            w4jbb

            On 3/31/2011 9:37 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:

            On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
             

            Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
            build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
            everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
            PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.

            Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


            Dave
             

            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


            -- 
            Joel
            
            "Common sense is like deodorant...
            Those who need it most don't use it."
            --Unknown
          • Tony Parks
            Hi Joel, It sounds like you have not calibrated the Si570 with Fred s CFGSR utility. I typically zero beat the 10 MHz WWV signal with Rocky s center frequency
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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              Hi Joel,

              It sounds like you have not calibrated the Si570 with Fred's CFGSR utility.  I typically zero beat the 10 MHz WWV signal with Rocky's center frequency offset 10 kHz from10 MHz.  Rocky will indicate what frequency it is receiving the WWV signal.   The calibrate tab on Fred's utility may then be used to calibrate the Si570 so that WWV comes in at exactly 10 MHz with Rocky.

              73,
              --
              Tony Parks
              kb9yig@...
              http://www.kb9yig.com
              
              


              On Thu, 2011-03-31 at 21:47 -0500, Joel Black wrote:
               
              Yeah,

              I've done that - multiple times.

              Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847.  To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.  This would be correct if it's a USB to LSB thing.  BTW, the FT-847 is good to go.

              Tired of screwing with this for now...

              w4jbb

              On 3/31/2011 9:37 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:



              On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
               
              Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
              build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
              everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
              PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.



              Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


              Dave
               




              No virus found in this message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


              -- 
              Joel
              
              "Common sense is like deodorant...
              Those who need it most don't use it."
              --Unknown
              


            • Alan
              ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Rx I / Q ... Joel, Calibration is easily done with Winrad
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 31, 2011
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                ----- Original Message -----
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Rx I / Q
                >
                > Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847. To hear the
                > same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.

                Joel,

                Calibration is easily done with Winrad
                <https://sites.google.com/site/g4zfqradio/calibrating-the-softrock-si570-usb-controller>

                I think you must have got the IQ set correctly now.
                If not, note that crossed IQ only affects reversal of tuning direction and
                sidebands.
                It does NOT make the RX dead. If it goes dead then you have done something
                wrong.
                As it says on Robby's page set the jumpers so the sidebands are correct with
                PSDR.

                73 Alan G4ZFQ
              • JOHN GREUSEL
                Joel, You re getting good information all around. Set PSDR aside for a moment, set the jumpers/audio cables/IQ settings on Winrad so that USB is correct and
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 1 3:55 AM
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                  Joel,
                  You're getting good information all around. Set PSDR aside for a moment, set the jumpers/audio cables/IQ settings on Winrad so that USB is correct and then calibrate via ExtIO so the SI570 is zero beat on 5,10 or 15mhz WWV. If you can do that and go back and forth USB to LSB (20 to 40 meters say) then it is working correctly. The fact that switching the audio cables mutes receive is not good though. Try unplugging one and the other audio cable when you can hear and see if it makes any difference. Remember software configurations are usually more daunting than building the radio!

                  John
                  KC9OJV

                  --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:

                  From: Joel Black <w4jbb@...>
                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Rx I / Q
                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 9:47 PM

                   

                  Yeah,

                  I've done that - multiple times.

                  Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847.  To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.  This would be correct if it's a USB to LSB thing.  BTW, the FT-847 is good to go.

                  Tired of screwing with this for now...

                  w4jbb

                  On 3/31/2011 9:37 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:



                  On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
                   

                  Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
                  build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
                  everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
                  PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.

                  Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


                  Dave
                   

                  No virus found in this message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


                  -- 
                  Joel

                  "Common sense is like deodorant...
                  Those who need it most don't use it."
                  --Unknown
                • Joel Black
                  Once again, a million thanks, Tony. The calibrate utility worked. I thought I had calibrated it by tuning to a local FM station as was mentioned in the build
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 1 4:06 AM
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                    Once again, a million thanks, Tony.  The calibrate utility worked.  I thought I had calibrated it by tuning to a local FM station as was mentioned in the build notes.  I also went to 10MHz and got full quieting on my FT-847.  It was broad enough to give full quieting, but was not on freq - I was 1.1kHz low.

                    73,
                    Joel - W4JBB

                    On 3/31/2011 10:36 PM, Tony Parks wrote:
                    Hi Joel,

                    It sounds like you have not calibrated the Si570 with Fred's CFGSR utility.  I typically zero beat the 10 MHz WWV signal with Rocky's center frequency offset 10 kHz from10 MHz.  Rocky will indicate what frequency it is receiving the WWV signal.   The calibrate tab on Fred's utility may then be used to calibrate the Si570 so that WWV comes in at exactly 10 MHz with Rocky.

                    73,
                    --
                    Tony Parks
                    kb9yig@...
                    http://www.kb9yig.com
                    
                    


                    On Thu, 2011-03-31 at 21:47 -0500, Joel Black wrote:
                     
                    Yeah,

                    I've done that - multiple times.

                    Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847.  To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.  This would be correct if it's a USB to LSB thing.  BTW, the FT-847 is good to go.

                    Tired of screwing with this for now...

                    w4jbb

                    On 3/31/2011 9:37 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:



                    On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
                     
                    Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
                    build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
                    everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
                    PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.



                    Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


                    Dave
                     




                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


                    -- 
                    Joel
                    
                    "Common sense is like deodorant...
                    Those who need it most don't use it."
                    --Unknown
                    



                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


                    -- 
                    Joel
                    
                    "Common sense is like deodorant...
                    Those who need it most don't use it."
                    --Unknown
                  • Joel Black
                    I think I misspoke about the audio completely muting. What it would do was put somewhere else in the band. Not sure where. The only thing I changed was the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 1 4:38 AM
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                      I think I misspoke about the audio completely muting.  What it would do was put somewhere else in the band.  Not sure where.  The only thing I changed was the stereo cable (1/8") to the airplane headphone connector (found at radio shack - takes a stereo 1/8" input and gives me separate tip and ring outputs.  I run these to 1/8" to 1/4" adapters.  Works great (if I can get past the headspace errors...  HI HI...)

                      After calibrating the Si570, I am pleasantly listening to 40m SSB (on the correct sideband).

                      I *really* appreciate all the help.

                      Looking forward to finishing the radio up.

                      73,
                      Joel - W4JBB

                      On 4/1/2011 5:55 AM, JOHN GREUSEL wrote:
                      Joel,
                      You're getting good information all around. Set PSDR aside for a moment, set the jumpers/audio cables/IQ settings on Winrad so that USB is correct and then calibrate via ExtIO so the SI570 is zero beat on 5,10 or 15mhz WWV. If you can do that and go back and forth USB to LSB (20 to 40 meters say) then it is working correctly. The fact that switching the audio cables mutes receive is not good though. Try unplugging one and the other audio cable when you can hear and see if it makes any difference. Remember software configurations are usually more daunting than building the radio!

                      John
                      KC9OJV

                      --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:

                      From: Joel Black <w4jbb@...>
                      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Rx I / Q
                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 9:47 PM

                       

                      Yeah,

                      I've done that - multiple times.

                      Right now, I'm listening to 7.1345MHz LSB on my FT-847.  To hear the same thing on the Ensemble, I have to tune to 7.133MHz LSB.  This would be correct if it's a USB to LSB thing.  BTW, the FT-847 is good to go.

                      Tired of screwing with this for now...

                      w4jbb

                      On 3/31/2011 9:37 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:



                      On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
                       

                      Ok, I am at my wit's end. I have completed the Rx Opamps stage of the
                      build. All tests were good and I receive fine except for one thing,
                      everything is in the opposite sideband of where it should be. I'm using
                      PowerSDR (SV1EIA version) and an E-MU 1212.

                      Reverse the lines to the sound card or flip them in your software if it supports it.  I had the same problem with my RXTX 6.3 in Rocky.  I couldn't figure out why nobody was in the PSK31 frequencies but there was lots of PSK31 up a few khz.


                      Dave
                       

                      No virus found in this message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


                      -- 
                      Joel
                      
                      "Common sense is like deodorant...
                      Those who need it most don't use it."
                      --Unknown

                      No virus found in this message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3543 - Release Date: 03/31/11


                      -- 
                      Joel
                      
                      "Common sense is like deodorant...
                      Those who need it most don't use it."
                      --Unknown
                    • Gordon JC Pearce
                      ... Right, okay, here s a bit of lateral thinking for you: Get a 3.5mm stereo jack and a 3.5mm stereo line socket. Wire the plug and socket together crossed
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 1 3:56 PM
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                        On Thu, 2011-03-31 at 21:47 -0500, Joel Black wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Yeah,
                        >
                        > I've done that - multiple times.

                        Right, okay, here's a bit of lateral thinking for you:

                        Get a 3.5mm stereo jack and a 3.5mm stereo line socket. Wire the plug
                        and socket together crossed over. Use this to switch between crossed
                        and uncrossed without constantly pratting about with the links.

                        I'm sure someone said a while back that the Windows software was easier
                        to use. I definitely heard that somewhere... ;-)

                        Gordon MM0YEQ
                      • g8voip
                        Hi all, The biggest problem is people do not take the time to actually read or understand how the SDR gear works in its most basic way. A few minutes spent
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 2 12:12 AM
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                          Hi all,

                          The biggest problem is people do not take the time to actually read or understand how the SDR gear works in its most basic way. A few minutes spent doing that would help no end in setting up and configuring both the hardware and software.

                          For the I/Q signals there are simply only two choices on receive and transmit as far as the hardware is concerned. The most basic understanding will allow someone to easily determine whether what they are seeing and hearing is right or wrong, sidebands swapped over or spectrum display reversed high to low.

                          I gave a talk at my local radio club just 6 weeks after first reading about SDR and acquiring a SoftRock kit from Tony. Although that was well over 5 years ago, the basic information is still valid and hopefully still of some use in helping explain the basics at a beginners level, which I certainly was myself at that time.

                          http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/

                          Alan, G4ZFQ has started to refine the information on his web page and produced new pages specific to issues that seem to be the areas many have problems with and questions frequently arise. For the sound card and I/Q problems take a look at:

                          http://sites.google.com/site/g4zfqradio/sdr-with-soundcard-basic-faults

                          There is only so much those offering assistance can do to help, the rest is down to the individual themselves. After all, part of the process is or should be 'self learning'. Thats what amateur radio is all about, isn't it?

                          73, Bob G8VOI
                        • Joel Black
                          Bob, et al, My problem was actually an LO that was not properly calibrated. Tony pointed me to that. I had followed the instructions at the build site by
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 2 2:13 PM
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                            Bob, et al,

                            My problem was actually an LO that was not properly calibrated. Tony
                            pointed me to that.

                            I had followed the instructions at the build site by Robby, WB5RVZ, and
                            they are great. I'm not complaining. However, the Si570 is a tad
                            broader than I expected. So yes, I had "calibrated" it, but it wasn't
                            even close... I'm getting to that.

                            When I got to that step, I didn't use a freq counter as I should have, I
                            used a local FM broadcast station. When I tuned the Si570 to 98.1MHz, I
                            got full quieting on the FM radio (later, I tried this on 10MHz and got
                            the same result). Problem is, the LO was 1.1kHz high. So, everything
                            appeared to be LSB (1.5kHz below the carrier). No amount of me crossing
                            and uncrossing the I and Q jumpers or moving soundcard inputs was going
                            to solve that.

                            Tony told me to go back and tune to WWV and re-calibrate. I did that
                            and it all worked out. It has been stable since.

                            73,
                            Joel - W4JBB

                            On 4/2/2011 2:12 AM, g8voip wrote:
                            > Hi all,
                            >
                            > The biggest problem is people do not take the time to actually read or understand how the SDR gear works in its most basic way. A few minutes spent doing that would help no end in setting up and configuring both the hardware and software.
                            >
                            > For the I/Q signals there are simply only two choices on receive and transmit as far as the hardware is concerned. The most basic understanding will allow someone to easily determine whether what they are seeing and hearing is right or wrong, sidebands swapped over or spectrum display reversed high to low.
                            >
                            > I gave a talk at my local radio club just 6 weeks after first reading about SDR and acquiring a SoftRock kit from Tony. Although that was well over 5 years ago, the basic information is still valid and hopefully still of some use in helping explain the basics at a beginners level, which I certainly was myself at that time.
                            >
                            > http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/
                            >
                            > Alan, G4ZFQ has started to refine the information on his web page and produced new pages specific to issues that seem to be the areas many have problems with and questions frequently arise. For the sound card and I/Q problems take a look at:
                            >
                            > http://sites.google.com/site/g4zfqradio/sdr-with-soundcard-basic-faults
                            >
                            > There is only so much those offering assistance can do to help, the rest is down to the individual themselves. After all, part of the process is or should be 'self learning'. Thats what amateur radio is all about, isn't it?
                            >
                            > 73, Bob G8VOI
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----
                            > No virus found in this message.
                            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3545 - Release Date: 04/01/11
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Joel

                            "Common sense is like deodorant...
                            Those who need it most don't use it."
                            --Unknown
                          • g8voip
                            Hi Joel, I think the intention of the check with listening on a FM receiver is only tell you the Si570 is oscillating, certainly no way of determining the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 2 2:30 PM
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                              Hi Joel,

                              I think the intention of the check with listening on a FM receiver is only tell you the Si570 is oscillating, certainly no way of determining the frequency with any accuracy within a few 10's of kHz due to the width of the BC receivers filters.

                              We can only work on the information given and you seemed to be pointing to a problem with resolving upper or lower sideband hence the focus by me and others on the I/Q settings. Simply having an error in the frequency calibration would not affect the signal you were trying to tune, only the absolute dial frequency.

                              Frequency calibration is a completely separate process.

                              Guess sometimes it is not possible to describe the problem or symptoms accurately enough to enable the correct solution to be given.

                              Anyway, glad you managed to resolve your problem via a roundabout route.

                              73, Bob G8VOI


                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Joel Black <w4jbb@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bob, et al,
                              >
                              > My problem was actually an LO that was not properly calibrated. Tony
                              > pointed me to that.
                              >
                              > I had followed the instructions at the build site by Robby, WB5RVZ, and
                              > they are great. I'm not complaining. However, the Si570 is a tad
                              > broader than I expected. So yes, I had "calibrated" it, but it wasn't
                              > even close... I'm getting to that.
                              >
                              > When I got to that step, I didn't use a freq counter as I should have, I
                              > used a local FM broadcast station. When I tuned the Si570 to 98.1MHz, I
                              > got full quieting on the FM radio (later, I tried this on 10MHz and got
                              > the same result). Problem is, the LO was 1.1kHz high. So, everything
                              > appeared to be LSB (1.5kHz below the carrier). No amount of me crossing
                              > and uncrossing the I and Q jumpers or moving soundcard inputs was going
                              > to solve that.
                              >
                              > Tony told me to go back and tune to WWV and re-calibrate. I did that
                              > and it all worked out. It has been stable since.
                              >
                              > 73,
                              > Joel - W4JBB
                              >
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