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Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble

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  • Alan
    ... From: JOHN GREUSEL Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble ... I m certainly not an expert but I don t think so. I
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble


      >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
      >different sound cards or the other way around?


      I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
      I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
      soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!

      73 Alan G4ZFQ
    • g8voip
      Hi Michael, Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly? If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband,
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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        Hi Michael,

        Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?

        If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.

        73, Bob G8VOI



        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
        > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
        >
        >
        > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
        > >different sound cards or the other way around?
        >
        >
        > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
        > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
        > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
        >
        > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
        >
      • hoffmann194629
        Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it s really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something. In fact, let s assume that i am
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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          Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
          In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
          In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
          Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
          So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
          so Bob...........i think you've got it.
          I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
          Unti then; take care.
          Michael, ON4MI

          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Michael,
          >
          > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
          >
          > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
          >
          > 73, Bob G8VOI
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
          > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
          > >
          > >
          > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
          > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
          > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
          > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
          > >
          > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
          > >
          >
        • Van W1WCG
          Michael, Just a thought -- could it be noise/AC hum from a ground loop condition between the SR and other components getting into the audio line and modulating
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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            Michael,

            Just a thought -- could it be noise/AC hum from a ground loop condition between the SR and other components getting into the audio line and modulating the signal along with the desired stuff?  Can you listen to your own signal and get some idea of what's in those wide sidebands?

            73, Van W1WCG


            On 12/4/2010 11:24 AM, hoffmann194629 wrote:
             

            Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
            In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
            In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
            Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
            So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
            so Bob...........i think you've got it.
            I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
            Unti then; take care.
            Michael, ON4MI

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Michael,
            >
            > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
            >
            > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
            >
            > 73, Bob G8VOI
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
            > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
            > >
            > >
            > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
            > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
            > >
            > >
            > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
            > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
            > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
            > >
            > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
            > >
            >

          • g8voip
            Hi Michael, Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m. When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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              Hi Michael,

              Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.

              When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.

              I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.

              Hope you sort out the problem quickly.

              73, Bob G8VOI



              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
              > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
              > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
              > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
              > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
              > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
              > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
              > Unti then; take care.
              > Michael, ON4MI
              >
              > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Michael,
              > >
              > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
              > >
              > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
              > >
              > > 73, Bob G8VOI
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
              > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
              > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
              > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
              > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
              > > >
              > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • sv1eia
              Michael, In situations where someone is monitoring with a normal receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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                Michael,

                In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.

                On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.

                I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.

                73,
                Christos SV1EIA



                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Michael,
                >
                > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                >
                > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                >
                > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                >
                > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                >
                > 73, Bob G8VOI
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                > > Unti then; take care.
                > > Michael, ON4MI
                > >
                > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Michael,
                > > >
                > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                > > >
                > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                > > >
                > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                > > > >
                > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • hoffmann194629
                Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn t mean that TX is
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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                  Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn't mean that TX is Ok, the "channels" are not the same. I didn't thought about this.
                  I come back for a report
                  73's Michael, ON4MI

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Michael,
                  >
                  > In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.
                  >
                  > On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                  > In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.
                  >
                  > I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > Christos SV1EIA
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Michael,
                  > >
                  > > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                  > >
                  > > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                  > >
                  > > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                  > >
                  > > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                  > >
                  > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                  > > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                  > > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                  > > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                  > > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                  > > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                  > > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                  > > > Unti then; take care.
                  > > > Michael, ON4MI
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Michael,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                  > > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                  > > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                  > > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                  > > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • sv1eia
                  Michael, Also, one thing that needs to be noted is that in normal mid-ranged receivers the receiving passband is not so strinct or in other words the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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                    Michael,

                    Also, one thing that needs to be noted is that in 'normal' mid-ranged receivers the receiving passband is not so 'strinct' or in other words the filter 'skirts' have not so good rejection eventually letting you think that a station has excessive bandwidth whereas it is the receiver itself that has the problem.
                    In some receivers, specially in those that their operators want to have 'high fidelity' reception, it is common to use large (6KHz) or even larger passbands. Do not trust them.
                    Only another SDR or a rig with a bandscope can show you what is going on.

                    73,
                    Christos SV1EIA



                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn't mean that TX is Ok, the "channels" are not the same. I didn't thought about this.
                    > I come back for a report
                    > 73's Michael, ON4MI
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Michael,
                    > >
                    > > In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.
                    > >
                    > > On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                    > > In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.
                    > >
                    > > I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.
                    > >
                    > > 73,
                    > > Christos SV1EIA
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Michael,
                    > > >
                    > > > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                    > > >
                    > > > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                    > > >
                    > > > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                    > > >
                    > > > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                    > > >
                    > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                    > > > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                    > > > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                    > > > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                    > > > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                    > > > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                    > > > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                    > > > > Unti then; take care.
                    > > > > Michael, ON4MI
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Michael,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                    > > > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                    > > > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                    > > > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                    > > > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • wa9cgz
                    Without a way of analyzing your signal it s difficult to find whats wrong. Take a look at the project below but keep in mind another computer and sound card
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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                      Without a way of analyzing your signal it's difficult to find whats
                      wrong. Take a look at the project below but keep in mind another
                      computer and sound card are required.

                      http://www.oz1jte.dk/20 Dollar Spectrum analysator/20 dollars spectrum analyzer


                      BTW of course another SDR receiver if it's well shielded will also do.


                      Joe wa9cgz
                    • hoffmann194629
                      I agree Christos, when i received some advises from other OM s the reported Bandwidth goes from 6khz up to 10 khz, so nothing really precise. But on the other
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 4, 2010
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                        I agree Christos, when i received some advises from other OM's the reported Bandwidth goes from 6khz up to 10 khz, so nothing really precise.
                        But on the other hand, when i connect the TRX to a dummy with 500mW output i can hear my voice in my TS 2000 spreading from -5khz up to +4khz with regards to the set frequency.
                        But i find something else very strange when i tested the LINE OUT connection:
                        Explanation:
                        When i built the transceiver some weeks ago i used "flying jumpers" with goldplated PC male/female contacts to have the possibility to swap them over.
                        From the very beginning i have to connect the LINE IN jumpers NOT crossed, otherwise i received in USB when LSB is checked on the PowerSDR.
                        Now i operate also in TX, in this case the LINE OUT jumpers must stay crossed, otherwise i transmit in USB.
                        To make it short: LINE IN = not crossed
                        Line OUT= crossed
                        otherwise it didn't work.

                        So, perhaps i introduce an hardware error during building, but apart from this, the TXRX is working perfectly.

                        I have checked the Line out cable, it's very easy with the "flying jumpers".
                        I disconnect one jumper at a time, when the signal disappears with only one jumper connected, thats the broken wire.
                        But the connection is OK.

                        Perhaps the non crossed or crossed jumpers are giving you some more information?


                        Best regards,
                        Michael, ON4MI



                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Michael,
                        >
                        > Also, one thing that needs to be noted is that in 'normal' mid-ranged receivers the receiving passband is not so 'strinct' or in other words the filter 'skirts' have not so good rejection eventually letting you think that a station has excessive bandwidth whereas it is the receiver itself that has the problem.
                        > In some receivers, specially in those that their operators want to have 'high fidelity' reception, it is common to use large (6KHz) or even larger passbands. Do not trust them.
                        > Only another SDR or a rig with a bandscope can show you what is going on.
                        >
                        > 73,
                        > Christos SV1EIA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn't mean that TX is Ok, the "channels" are not the same. I didn't thought about this.
                        > > I come back for a report
                        > > 73's Michael, ON4MI
                        > >
                        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Michael,
                        > > >
                        > > > In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.
                        > > >
                        > > > On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                        > > > In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.
                        > > >
                        > > > I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.
                        > > >
                        > > > 73,
                        > > > Christos SV1EIA
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi Michael,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                        > > > > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                        > > > > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                        > > > > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                        > > > > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                        > > > > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                        > > > > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                        > > > > > Unti then; take care.
                        > > > > > Michael, ON4MI
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Hi Michael,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                        > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                        > > > > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                        > > > > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                        > > > > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • hoffmann194629
                        Thanks Joe for this info, please verify the link, he didn t work for me. 73 s Michael ON4MI
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks Joe for this info, please verify the link, he didn't work for me.
                          73's
                          Michael ON4MI

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "wa9cgz" <joeprice@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Without a way of analyzing your signal it's difficult to find whats
                          > wrong. Take a look at the project below but keep in mind another
                          > computer and sound card are required.
                          >
                          > http://www.oz1jte.dk/20 Dollar Spectrum analysator/20 dollars spectrum analyzer
                          >
                          >
                          > BTW of course another SDR receiver if it's well shielded will also do.
                          >
                          >
                          > Joe wa9cgz
                          >
                        • Sid Boyce
                          Go to http://www.oz1jte.dk and you will see all. 73 ... Sid. ... -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 5, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Go to http://www.oz1jte.dk and you will see all.
                            73 ... Sid.

                            On 06/12/10 00:16, hoffmann194629 wrote:
                            > Thanks Joe for this info, please verify the link, he didn't work for me.
                            > 73's
                            > Michael ON4MI
                            >
                            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > "wa9cgz" <joeprice@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Without a way of analyzing your signal it's difficult to find whats
                            > > wrong. Take a look at the project below but keep in mind another
                            > > computer and sound card are required.
                            > >
                            > > http://www.oz1jte.dk/20 Dollar Spectrum analysator/20 dollars
                            > spectrum analyzer
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > BTW of course another SDR receiver if it's well shielded will also do.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Joe wa9cgz
                            > >
                            >


                            --
                            Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                            Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                            Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                            Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                          • hoffmann194629
                            Hi Bob G8VOI Coming back to you with the extremly large Bandwidth....... You are right Bob, is was definitely an insuffisant image rejection adjustement. I
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 9, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Bob G8VOI

                              Coming back to you with the extremly large Bandwidth.......
                              You are right Bob, is was definitely an insuffisant image rejection adjustement.

                              I have done it before with the rocky soft and than forget about it.

                              Now i've been through very carefully by following also the two procedures described in the SDR 1000 manual.

                              After all this adjustements things are changing: now i have a correct
                              overall Bandwidth not larger than 3khz, controlled by several amateurs with Flexradios.
                              So it was my fault and i wish to thank you for your help.
                              Special thanks also to Christos SV1EIA and ALAN G4ZGFQ for all the explanations.
                              Now i'm transmitting with 100 W on a vertical fitted Deltaloop and i have already a lot of nice reports from EUROPEAN Stations.

                              73,s Michael ON4MI

                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I agree Christos, when i received some advises from other OM's the reported Bandwidth goes from 6khz up to 10 khz, so nothing really precise.
                              > But on the other hand, when i connect the TRX to a dummy with 500mW output i can hear my voice in my TS 2000 spreading from -5khz up to +4khz with regards to the set frequency.
                              > But i find something else very strange when i tested the LINE OUT connection:
                              > Explanation:
                              > When i built the transceiver some weeks ago i used "flying jumpers" with goldplated PC male/female contacts to have the possibility to swap them over.
                              > From the very beginning i have to connect the LINE IN jumpers NOT crossed, otherwise i received in USB when LSB is checked on the PowerSDR.
                              > Now i operate also in TX, in this case the LINE OUT jumpers must stay crossed, otherwise i transmit in USB.
                              > To make it short: LINE IN = not crossed
                              > Line OUT= crossed
                              > otherwise it didn't work.
                              >
                              > So, perhaps i introduce an hardware error during building, but apart from this, the TXRX is working perfectly.
                              >
                              > I have checked the Line out cable, it's very easy with the "flying jumpers".
                              > I disconnect one jumper at a time, when the signal disappears with only one jumper connected, thats the broken wire.
                              > But the connection is OK.
                              >
                              > Perhaps the non crossed or crossed jumpers are giving you some more information?
                              >
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              > Michael, ON4MI
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Michael,
                              > >
                              > > Also, one thing that needs to be noted is that in 'normal' mid-ranged receivers the receiving passband is not so 'strinct' or in other words the filter 'skirts' have not so good rejection eventually letting you think that a station has excessive bandwidth whereas it is the receiver itself that has the problem.
                              > > In some receivers, specially in those that their operators want to have 'high fidelity' reception, it is common to use large (6KHz) or even larger passbands. Do not trust them.
                              > > Only another SDR or a rig with a bandscope can show you what is going on.
                              > >
                              > > 73,
                              > > Christos SV1EIA
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn't mean that TX is Ok, the "channels" are not the same. I didn't thought about this.
                              > > > I come back for a report
                              > > > 73's Michael, ON4MI
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Michael,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                              > > > > In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > 73,
                              > > > > Christos SV1EIA
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hi Michael,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                              > > > > > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                              > > > > > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                              > > > > > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                              > > > > > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                              > > > > > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                              > > > > > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                              > > > > > > Unti then; take care.
                              > > > > > > Michael, ON4MI
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Hi Michael,
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                              > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                              > > > > > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                              > > > > > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                              > > > > > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • g8voip
                              Hi Michael, Thanks for letting us all know that resolved the problem, good to hear. Perhaps I do know a little bit about this SDR stuff after all ;) Have fun,
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 9, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Michael,

                                Thanks for letting us all know that resolved the problem, good to hear.

                                Perhaps I do know a little bit about this SDR stuff after all ;)

                                Have fun,

                                73, Bob G8VOI

                                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Bob G8VOI
                                >
                                > Coming back to you with the extremly large Bandwidth.......
                                > You are right Bob, is was definitely an insuffisant image rejection adjustement.
                                >
                                > I have done it before with the rocky soft and than forget about it.
                                >
                                > Now i've been through very carefully by following also the two procedures described in the SDR 1000 manual.
                                >
                                > After all this adjustements things are changing: now i have a correct
                                > overall Bandwidth not larger than 3khz, controlled by several amateurs with Flexradios.
                                > So it was my fault and i wish to thank you for your help.
                                > Special thanks also to Christos SV1EIA and ALAN G4ZGFQ for all the explanations.
                                > Now i'm transmitting with 100 W on a vertical fitted Deltaloop and i have already a lot of nice reports from EUROPEAN Stations.
                                >
                                > 73,s Michael ON4MI
                                >
                                > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I agree Christos, when i received some advises from other OM's the reported Bandwidth goes from 6khz up to 10 khz, so nothing really precise.
                                > > But on the other hand, when i connect the TRX to a dummy with 500mW output i can hear my voice in my TS 2000 spreading from -5khz up to +4khz with regards to the set frequency.
                                > > But i find something else very strange when i tested the LINE OUT connection:
                                > > Explanation:
                                > > When i built the transceiver some weeks ago i used "flying jumpers" with goldplated PC male/female contacts to have the possibility to swap them over.
                                > > From the very beginning i have to connect the LINE IN jumpers NOT crossed, otherwise i received in USB when LSB is checked on the PowerSDR.
                                > > Now i operate also in TX, in this case the LINE OUT jumpers must stay crossed, otherwise i transmit in USB.
                                > > To make it short: LINE IN = not crossed
                                > > Line OUT= crossed
                                > > otherwise it didn't work.
                                > >
                                > > So, perhaps i introduce an hardware error during building, but apart from this, the TXRX is working perfectly.
                                > >
                                > > I have checked the Line out cable, it's very easy with the "flying jumpers".
                                > > I disconnect one jumper at a time, when the signal disappears with only one jumper connected, thats the broken wire.
                                > > But the connection is OK.
                                > >
                                > > Perhaps the non crossed or crossed jumpers are giving you some more information?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Best regards,
                                > > Michael, ON4MI
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Michael,
                                > > >
                                > > > Also, one thing that needs to be noted is that in 'normal' mid-ranged receivers the receiving passband is not so 'strinct' or in other words the filter 'skirts' have not so good rejection eventually letting you think that a station has excessive bandwidth whereas it is the receiver itself that has the problem.
                                > > > In some receivers, specially in those that their operators want to have 'high fidelity' reception, it is common to use large (6KHz) or even larger passbands. Do not trust them.
                                > > > Only another SDR or a rig with a bandscope can show you what is going on.
                                > > >
                                > > > 73,
                                > > > Christos SV1EIA
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Oh yes Christos, this is another possibility, i will check all the interconnections concerning LINE OUT. Receiving without any problem doesn't mean that TX is Ok, the "channels" are not the same. I didn't thought about this.
                                > > > > I come back for a report
                                > > > > 73's Michael, ON4MI
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "sv1eia" <sv1eia@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Michael,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > In situations where someone is monitoring with a 'normal' receiver and not a spectrum scope like softrock/SDR, then lots of things could happen and you cannot be sure of the cause.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > On the other hand, if indeed there is something wrong in the QSE, most of the times of wide bandwidth (and the user did not increased deliberately the bandwidth) is because the Left/Right audio channels have not proper level, one is not producing audio or the line-out used for Tx is mono instead of stereo.
                                > > > > > In that situation the Tx is DSB (Dual Side Band) transmitted occupying twice the bandwidth of a 'normal' 2.4KHz SSB signal.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I suggest you have a look at the Tx audio connections or mono/stereo situation.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > 73,
                                > > > > > Christos SV1EIA
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Hi Michael,
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Perhaps the big clue is someone resolving your signal on upper sideband whilst on 40m.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > When I did the prototype Ensemble RXTX evaluation I was able to get between -70dBc to -75dBc image rejection when using Rocky. Its more difficult to measure when running PowerSDR, but should still be extremely small. Certainly I would not expect anyone other than locals to hear the unwanted image.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I would have thought any hum and noise would be predominately close to the centre point and not extend too far into the audio spectrum. If it was really that bad then I would have expected you to have been getting very poor audio reports rahter than wide band splatter.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Hope you sort out the problem quickly.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "hoffmann194629" <micman@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Ok Bob, i tink this is the next step, it's really possible that i am out of range or that i misunderstood something.
                                > > > > > > > In fact, let's assume that i am transùmitting on 7.100.
                                > > > > > > > In this case my signal spreads from 7.095 up to 7.103, so, you must be right Bob.
                                > > > > > > > Concerning the other suggestions: no, there is no overdrive somewhere, Mike gain is reduced to 20, no Boost, PA output 80 mW and even than: Splatter over Splatter.
                                > > > > > > > So Bob i will concentrate tomorrow on the image reduction again (one OM reports today that he can hear me also in the upper side band),
                                > > > > > > > so Bob...........i think you've got it.
                                > > > > > > > I come back to you all with the results of my investigations.
                                > > > > > > > Unti then; take care.
                                > > > > > > > Michael, ON4MI
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Hi Michael,
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Have you set up the transmit image rejection properly?
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > If you have not, you could easily double the width of your signal with the unwated sideband, perhaps something those reporting the 'splatter' may have not fully appreciated.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > 73, Bob G8VOI
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > > > > > From: "JOHN GREUSEL"
                                > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Extremly large Bandwidth on SSB with TXTX ensemble
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >Could this be related to using a 48 khz input and a 96 khz output via two
                                > > > > > > > > > >different sound cards or the other way around?
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so.
                                > > > > > > > > > I think the mic soundcard can run at any rate independent of the IQ
                                > > > > > > > > > soundcard. Providing they are not the same card!
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
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