Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [softrock40] Re: Cold joints on gnd connections

Expand Messages
  • Richard
    On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:37:30 -0000 ... Peter, are you by any chance using one of the 15W antex irons, they dont have very good thermal properties. If you re
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 30 2:53 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:37:30 -0000
      "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:

      > The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so the
      > following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground connections
      > have thermal reliefs?
      >
      > 73,
      > Pete Goodmann, NI9N
      > www.garage-shoppe.com
      > www.lazydogengineering.com
      > Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
      >
      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, aa9wqham@... wrote:
      > >
      > > The ground planes require a little more heat. Your tip isn't hot enough.
      > > When soldering the ground connections I usually turn the temp up to around
      > > 800 degrees to do those connections. Remember to turn it down for the rest
      > > of the connections.
      > >
      > > Larry W9AMR
      > >
      > >
      > > In a message dated 7/30/2010 4:44:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > > bbjunkie@... writes:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi
      > >
      > > Can anyone explain why I could be having so much of a problem with cold
      > > joints on ground connections, all others are soldering fine, however a
      > > high percentage of the connections to ground are very very difficult to
      > > solder properly.
      > >
      > > I've cleaned the board thoroughly with alcohol and even when using a flux
      > > pen i'm still having issues.
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > >
      > > Pete
      > > MI3EPN
      > >
      >
      >

      Peter, are you by any chance using one of the 15W antex irons, they dont have
      very good thermal properties.
      If you're going to do a lot of building get yourself a good iron.
      I would really recommend the 200W Metcal soldering station, ( part of the OKI
      group).
      Its worth finding out who the sales engineer, rep, is for your area, and ask if
      he has any spare ex-demo stock. they are usually very good and sell demo stock
      for under half normal price, and throw in quite a few bits as well.

      they may sound a lot of money, but will last for life ish. A very good
      investment, project last longer if you properly solder them

      HTH

      --
      Best wishes

      Richard Bown G8JVM

      ###################################################################################
      Registered Linux User 36561
      OS: Mandriva 2010.1 Powerpack on an AMD Dual Athlon 64 +4400: 8 GB RAM DDR2
      Ham Call: G8JVM , QRA IO82SP, Interests Microwave 1.3 GHz,2.3 GHz & 5.7GHz & 10
      GHz
      ###################################################################################
    • p3te102
      Hi Richard / All, I m using a Maplin BP53 50watt temperature adjustable iron, at around 270c with a needle type tip. I was worried about overheating the tracks
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 30 4:52 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Richard / All,

        I'm using a Maplin BP53 50watt temperature adjustable iron, at around 270c with a needle type tip.

        I was worried about overheating the tracks and lifting them, will try a bit more heat!

        Thanks

        Pete
        MI3EPN



        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Richard <richard.bown@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:37:30 -0000
        > "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
        >
        > > The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so the
        > > following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground connections
        > > have thermal reliefs?
        > >
        > > 73,
        > > Pete Goodmann, NI9N
        > > www.garage-shoppe.com
        > > www.lazydogengineering.com
        > > Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
        > >
        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, aa9wqham@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > The ground planes require a little more heat. Your tip isn't hot enough.
        > > > When soldering the ground connections I usually turn the temp up to around
        > > > 800 degrees to do those connections. Remember to turn it down for the rest
        > > > of the connections.
        > > >
        > > > Larry W9AMR
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In a message dated 7/30/2010 4:44:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > > > bbjunkie@ writes:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi
        > > >
        > > > Can anyone explain why I could be having so much of a problem with cold
        > > > joints on ground connections, all others are soldering fine, however a
        > > > high percentage of the connections to ground are very very difficult to
        > > > solder properly.
        > > >
        > > > I've cleaned the board thoroughly with alcohol and even when using a flux
        > > > pen i'm still having issues.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks
        > > >
        > > > Pete
        > > > MI3EPN
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Peter, are you by any chance using one of the 15W antex irons, they dont have
        > very good thermal properties.
        > If you're going to do a lot of building get yourself a good iron.
        > I would really recommend the 200W Metcal soldering station, ( part of the OKI
        > group).
        > Its worth finding out who the sales engineer, rep, is for your area, and ask if
        > he has any spare ex-demo stock. they are usually very good and sell demo stock
        > for under half normal price, and throw in quite a few bits as well.
        >
        > they may sound a lot of money, but will last for life ish. A very good
        > investment, project last longer if you properly solder them
        >
        > HTH
        >
        > --
        > Best wishes
        >
        > Richard Bown G8JVM
        >
        > ###################################################################################
        > Registered Linux User 36561
        > OS: Mandriva 2010.1 Powerpack on an AMD Dual Athlon 64 +4400: 8 GB RAM DDR2
        > Ham Call: G8JVM , QRA IO82SP, Interests Microwave 1.3 GHz,2.3 GHz & 5.7GHz & 10
        > GHz
        > ###################################################################################
        >
      • Ray J
        Oops I stand corrected .. was thinking of a different board i was recently working on. this iron http://store.sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=6145&xSec=22 I
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 30 6:36 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Oops I stand corrected .. was thinking of a different board i was
          recently working on.

          this iron
          http://store.sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=6145&xSec=22

          I Seemed to have more trouble soldering the Ensemble, vs the rxtx or
          ver9.. could just be my imagination.
          have been using the smallest radio shack silver bearing solder.

          w9Ray



          Garey Barrell wrote:
          > The Ensemble RX DOES have thermal relief on many of the ground
          > connections, which helps quite a bit.
          >
          > But an under_sized_ soldering iron tip can be bad news, regardless of
          > the POWER of the iron heater.
          >
          > 73, Garey - K4OAH
          > Glen Allen, VA
          >
          > Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line& TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
          > <www.k4oah.com>
          >
          >
          > Ray J wrote:
          >> no they don't
          >>
          >> w9ray
          >>
          >> Peter wrote:
          >>
          >>> The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so the following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground connections have thermal reliefs?
          >>>
          >>> 73,
          >>> Pete Goodmann, NI9N
          >>> www.garage-shoppe.com
          >>> www.lazydogengineering.com
          >>> Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
          >>>
          >>> --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, aa9wqham@... wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> The ground planes require a little more heat. Your tip isn't hot enough.
          >>>> When soldering the ground connections I usually turn the temp up to around
          >>>> 800 degrees to do those connections. Remember to turn it down for the rest of
          >>>> the connections.
          >>>>
          >>>> Larry W9AMR
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> In a message dated 7/30/2010 4:44:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          >>>> bbjunkie@... writes:
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> Hi
          >>>>
          >>>> Can anyone explain why I could be having so much of a problem with cold
          >>>> joints on ground connections, all others are soldering fine, however a high
          >>>> percentage of the connections to ground are very very difficult to solder
          >>>> properly.
          >>>>
          >>>> I've cleaned the board thoroughly with alcohol and even when using a flux
          >>>> pen i'm still having issues.
          >>>>
          >>>> Thanks
          >>>>
          >>>> Pete
          >>>> MI3EPN
          >>>>
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • p3te102
          Worked a treat at 330-360c! Thanks guys, 73 Pete MI3EPN
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 30 6:43 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Worked a treat at 330-360c!

            Thanks guys,

            73
            Pete
            MI3EPN

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "p3te102" <bbjunkie@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Richard / All,
            >
            > I'm using a Maplin BP53 50watt temperature adjustable iron, at around 270c with a needle type tip.
            >
            > I was worried about overheating the tracks and lifting them, will try a bit more heat!
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Pete
            > MI3EPN
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Richard <richard.bown@> wrote:
            > >
            > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:37:30 -0000
            > > "Peter" <pete@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so the
            > > > following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground connections
            > > > have thermal reliefs?
            > > >
            > > > 73,
            > > > Pete Goodmann, NI9N
            > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
            > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
            > > > Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
            > > >
            > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, aa9wqham@ wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > The ground planes require a little more heat. Your tip isn't hot enough.
            > > > > When soldering the ground connections I usually turn the temp up to around
            > > > > 800 degrees to do those connections. Remember to turn it down for the rest
            > > > > of the connections.
            > > > >
            > > > > Larry W9AMR
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > In a message dated 7/30/2010 4:44:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            > > > > bbjunkie@ writes:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi
            > > > >
            > > > > Can anyone explain why I could be having so much of a problem with cold
            > > > > joints on ground connections, all others are soldering fine, however a
            > > > > high percentage of the connections to ground are very very difficult to
            > > > > solder properly.
            > > > >
            > > > > I've cleaned the board thoroughly with alcohol and even when using a flux
            > > > > pen i'm still having issues.
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks
            > > > >
            > > > > Pete
            > > > > MI3EPN
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > Peter, are you by any chance using one of the 15W antex irons, they dont have
            > > very good thermal properties.
            > > If you're going to do a lot of building get yourself a good iron.
            > > I would really recommend the 200W Metcal soldering station, ( part of the OKI
            > > group).
            > > Its worth finding out who the sales engineer, rep, is for your area, and ask if
            > > he has any spare ex-demo stock. they are usually very good and sell demo stock
            > > for under half normal price, and throw in quite a few bits as well.
            > >
            > > they may sound a lot of money, but will last for life ish. A very good
            > > investment, project last longer if you properly solder them
            > >
            > > HTH
            > >
            > > --
            > > Best wishes
            > >
            > > Richard Bown G8JVM
            > >
            > > ###################################################################################
            > > Registered Linux User 36561
            > > OS: Mandriva 2010.1 Powerpack on an AMD Dual Athlon 64 +4400: 8 GB RAM DDR2
            > > Ham Call: G8JVM , QRA IO82SP, Interests Microwave 1.3 GHz,2.3 GHz & 5.7GHz & 10
            > > GHz
            > > ###################################################################################
            > >
            >
          • Leon Heller
            ... I use a Metcal system that delivers a large amount of heat automatically to a joint if it is required. They are expensive, but worth it. The second-hand
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 30 8:40 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              On 30/07/2010 22:27, Ray J wrote:
              > I noticed this on the newer boards too.. is the copper heavier?
              >
              > or Seems the pads are wider to the ground plane,? sucking heat away
              > faster..
              > my little smt iron tip does not like them.. even more so using small
              > silver bearing no lead solder.

              I use a Metcal system that delivers a large amount of heat automatically
              to a joint if it is required. They are expensive, but worth it. The
              second-hand unit I use (STSS power unit and MX-500 handpiece and
              cartridges) cost me about the saqme as a new Weller sodering station,
              and is much better value.

              73, Leon
              --
              Leon Heller
              G1HSM
            • Leon Heller
              ... Try a larger tip! It should be about the same size as the item being soldered. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 30 10:17 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                On 31/07/2010 00:52, p3te102 wrote:
                > Hi Richard / All,
                >
                > I'm using a Maplin BP53 50watt temperature adjustable iron, at around 270c with a needle type tip.
                >
                > I was worried about overheating the tracks and lifting them, will try a bit more heat!

                Try a larger tip! It should be about the same size as the item being
                soldered.

                Leon
                --
                Leon Heller
                G1HSM
              • Peter
                Thermal reliefs help a lot and should be used in most cases, but it still takes more heat (not to be confused with higher temperature) to solder a connection
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 31 4:19 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thermal reliefs help a lot and should be used in most cases, but it still takes more heat (not to be confused with higher temperature) to solder a connection to a "large" copper area.

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Garey Barrell <k4oah@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Ensemble RX DOES have thermal relief on many of the ground
                  > connections, which helps quite a bit.
                  >
                  > But an under_sized_ soldering iron tip can be bad news, regardless of
                  > the POWER of the iron heater.
                  >
                  > 73, Garey - K4OAH
                  > Glen Allen, VA
                  >
                  > Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line& TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
                  > <www.k4oah.com>
                  >
                  >
                  > Ray J wrote:
                  > > no they don't
                  > >
                  > > w9ray
                  > >
                  > > Peter wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so the following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground connections have thermal reliefs?
                  > >>
                  > >> 73,
                  > >> Pete Goodmann, NI9N
                  > >> www.garage-shoppe.com
                  > >> www.lazydogengineering.com
                  > >> Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
                • Sid Boyce
                  Essentially, heat the job fully then apply solder and it will flow. With the gound plane occupying a large area of the board and copper being an efficient
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 31 5:13 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Essentially, heat the job fully then apply solder and it will flow.
                    With the gound plane occupying a large area of the board and copper
                    being an efficient disperser of heat, applied heat will dissipate all
                    across its area so the temperature at the applied point will take longer
                    to build up to where it will melt the solder.
                    In high power amplifiers a thick piece of copper is inserted between the
                    transistors and the aluminium heat sink. It's called a "heat spreader"
                    in that it allows the heat from the transistors to disperse across its
                    surface (copper has low heat resistance) and transferred to the large
                    heatsink for disposal. Interfacing to aluminium (high heat resistance)
                    directly would allow hot spots to develop which in extreme cases can
                    cause transistors to fail.
                    73 ... Sid.

                    On 31/07/10 12:19, Peter wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Thermal reliefs help a lot and should be used in most cases, but it
                    > still takes more heat (not to be confused with higher temperature) to
                    > solder a connection to a "large" copper area.
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > Garey Barrell <k4oah@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The Ensemble RX DOES have thermal relief on many of the ground
                    > > connections, which helps quite a bit.
                    > >
                    > > But an under_sized_ soldering iron tip can be bad news, regardless of
                    > > the POWER of the iron heater.
                    > >
                    > > 73, Garey - K4OAH
                    > > Glen Allen, VA
                    > >
                    > > Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line& TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
                    > > <www.k4oah.com>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Ray J wrote:
                    > > > no they don't
                    > > >
                    > > > w9ray
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >> The only Softrock I've built was one using my own PCB layout, so
                    > the following question isn't as dumb as it sounds. Do the ground
                    > connections have thermal reliefs?
                    > > >>
                    > > >> 73,
                    > > >> Pete Goodmann, NI9N
                    > > >> www.garage-shoppe.com
                    > > >> www.lazydogengineering.com
                    > > >> Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville, Indiana
                    >


                    --
                    Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                    Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                    Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                    Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.