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Re: [softrock40] I2C--Long

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  • Alan
    ... From: Preston Subject: [softrock40] I2C--Long ... Thanks for promoting my page. I keep on meaning to remind users that Ctrl - F on the keyboard will
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
    • 1 Attachment
    • 4 KB
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Preston"
    Subject: [softrock40] I2C--Long


    >
    > http://homepages.wightcable.net/~g4zfq/Si570.htm
    >

    Thanks for "promoting" my page. I keep on meaning to remind users that
    "Ctrl - F" on the keyboard will bring up a search bow to look for a keyword.
    Otherwise it can be difficult to find things.

    > I did find that with my little Packer Amp running at 15 watts, I lose the
    > USB connection sometimes.

    I find mine drops out sometimes. I do not know why, maybe it's some other
    USB device. It makes me reluctant to use WSPR with any version of PDSR that
    changes frequency for TX. Although it is the best way to keep spurii low I
    have found it TXing on the wrong frequency!

    >
    > I also found a few ways to calibrate the thing. The part I don't yet
    > understand is what I am changing. If I use CFGR to calibrate, I am
    > writing the calibration offset to the ATMEL chip, right?

    Yes, it writes to the ATTiny, any program that uses USB will then be
    calibrated correctly as long as you do not try to calibrate the program.

    >Genesis 1.1 does not support smooth tuning. To tune outside band segments
    >selected by sending a signal to the I2C by clicking on a band button, the
    >LO setting must be changed directly in the LO box in G1.1.
    > Anybody else using G1.1 with their SoftRock and I2C?
    >

    Smooth tuning is done in the ATTiny it will jump with large changes. I did
    quickly try Genesis and did not notice any trouble.

    > I am going to try the phasing method for high accuracy, and then maybe
    > listen to an FMT (Frequency Measuring Test) from ARRL to see how I do.
    > Should be pretty good, given enough warm up for stability even without an
    > "oven."
    >

    Si570s vary, I am not satisfied with long-term stability on higher
    frequencies. I am quite critical, on of mine moved about 10Hz overnight on
    17m. I'm not sure a heater on the case is too effective. I am now doing some
    tests, but it will take some time to reach a conclusion. I am seeing a
    movement of about 2Hz for 1°C temp change at 10MHz. Also the Si570
    dissipates varying power at different frequencies so it will drift a certain
    amount after changing frequency. I attach a chart that shows a CMOS with a
    Khune heater, this makes a difference but not all that significant. The
    Si570 is in contact with the outside world by conduction along the PCB.

    What sort of accuracy do you expect to need for a measuring test? I use a
    GPS based reference, some have Rubidium standards. I've never actually tried
    a test, I don't know of any local ones. My system seems to be at least as
    good as 0.1Hz.

    73 Alan G4ZFQ
  • tom loebl
    Bob, I notice if I calibrate in PSDR the frequency is off by about 23 khz in Rocky. Is there an offset I can apply in Rocky so I don t have to recalibrate
    Message 2 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Bob,
       
      I notice if I calibrate in PSDR the frequency is off by about 23 khz in Rocky. Is there an offset I can apply in Rocky so I don't have to recalibrate between it and PSDR?
       
      Tom


       
      On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:40 PM, g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
       

      Hi Preston,

      There are many ways you could carry out the frequency calibration, but there is only one 'real' way to do it and avoid ending up forever chasing your own tail!

      The process is fully documented in my 'Firmware Users Guide' for Fred PE0FKO's AVR firmware:

      http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/

      If carried out correctly, the calibration (correction) needed for the Si570 frequency, is stored in the AVR firmware and automatically applied whenever a frequency command is received over the USB - I2C interface from which ever SDR program you are running.

      In order for that to be applied correctly, you MUST NOT carry out any other form of frequency calibration in the SDR program you are running, otherwise you will have the situation where when you set the SDR program to a particular frequency, it would apply its own calibration first, then send the command to the firmware, which in turn would apply its stored correction, so the final Si570 frequency would end up being wrong.

      If you leave all your SDR programs set with the default Si570 frequency of 114.285MHz, and no calibration applied, you can easily swap between multiple programs and not need to worry about the calibration.

      That becomes even more important if you have more than one SDR receiver or transceiver. Using the firmware calibration function, the correction stays with the specific piece of hardware and is not program dependant.

      There are two ways of carrying out the firmware calibration:

      Use 'CFGSR' and accurately measure the Si570 frequency, then enter the value in the 'calibrate B' 'real' box and press the calibrate button.

      The simplest way is to use one of the versions of Winrad with Fred's supporting Winrad dll file and tune and zero beat to a known frequency like WWV etc and then enter the frequency as above in the calibration box.

      Once you have carried out the calibration process, no problem using Rocky, any version of Winrad or PSDR including the Genesis version.

      I currently have around 15 different SDR programs or versions installed on my PC for test purposes, along with an array of USB - I2C controlled devices including a v6.3 TXRX, Ensemble TXRX, 2 x v9.0 RX, 2 x USB synths. Without the firmware calibration feature it would be a nightmare swapping between devices, but all have Fred's excellent firmware, so no need to worry!

      73, Bob G8VOI



      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Preston" <pdouglas12@...> wrote:
      >
      > I got my little I2C board built and running with the RXTX 6.3 over the weekend, and it is a real pleasure. Teamed up with PSDR-IQ it runs in "smooth" mode very nicely. As usual, there was a lot to read and links to follow, downloads of CFGR etc. to do before it would all work right. The starting place is still G4ZFQ's page at:
      >
      > http://homepages.wightcable.net/~g4zfq/Si570.htm
      >
      > I did find that with my little Packer Amp running at 15 watts, I lose the USB connection sometimes. I think this may just be a factor of moving wires around, as I have the twin lead from the new springtime-mounted all band doublet running across the desk! I have to trim it up and get it squared away, and that will take all the RF out of the area. Plus, has anyone found that a choke on each end of the controller board is helpful? How about bypass caps? Would .01 caps affect the controller signal?
      >
      > I have made a little sub chassis out of PC board for the RXTX 6.3 that fits like a drawer into a 4x4 inch clear plastic box (open in the back). (Disadvantage: no RF shielding in the box, of course). I have to take a picture of it all. One advantage of the clear plastic box is that I can see the works, and the little TX LED that peeks out from under the PA module, installed as an option mentioned in Robby's construction pages for the 6.3 is clearly visible. So, I didn't have to move the LED to a front panel of a more conventional metal box. Overall, it does look pretty neat.
      >
      > With the removable "shoe" sub chassis, I will be able to pull the 6.3 out of the box without disturbing any wires, when I go to change plug-ins for other bands. Should work out well, as soon as I go and actually build those modules, which are sitting and waiting for me to get to them.
      >
      > I also found a few ways to calibrate the thing. The part I don't yet understand is what I am changing. If I use CFGR to calibrate, I am writing the calibration offset to the ATMEL chip, right? If I use the calibrate function of PSDR-IQ, where is the offset being saved? On the ATMEL or in a data file for PSDR-IQ? And if I want to also run Genesis 1.1 and calibrate that program too, does that mess up the PSDR-IQ calibration? Note that as far as I can tell (unless there's a box I can't find to click on) Genesis 1.1 does not support smooth tuning. To tune outside band segments selected by sending a signal to the I2C by clicking on a band button, the LO setting must be changed directly in the LO box in G1.1.
      >
      > Anybody else using G1.1 with their SoftRock and I2C?
      >
      > Anyway, I did manage to calibrate G1.1 using both it and CFGR to the nearest 1 Hz merely by centering the receiver in the middle of the CHU carrier signal at 7850. The G1.1 has a 32X magnification that makes this very easy. My WSPR spots confirm that I am very close plus or minus perhaps 1 or 2 Hz or better, within the accuracy of the reporting stations. I don't use the Amp with WSPR and stay around 200 mW.
      >
      > I have now realized one of my goals in using the I2C, which is accurate calibration of my SDR rigs. When time allows, I am going to try the phasing method for high accuracy, and then maybe listen to an FMT (Frequency Measuring Test) from ARRL to see how I do. Should be pretty good, given enough warm up for stability even without an "oven."
      >
      > Thanks, Tony and Robby for all the fun.
      >
      > Preston WJ2V
      >


    • Alan
      ... From: tom loebl Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long Bob, I notice if I calibrate in PSDR the frequency is off by about 23 khz in Rocky. Is there an
      Message 3 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "tom loebl"
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long


        Bob,

        I notice if I calibrate in PSDR the frequency is off by about 23 khz in
        Rocky. Is there an offset I can apply in Rocky so I don't have to
        recalibrate between it and PSDR?

        But the you have just posted the answer, Bob has just told you below. And
        the message I sent also gave you the answer.

        73 Alan G4ZFQ

        On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:40 PM, g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi Preston,
        >
        > There are many ways you could carry out the frequency calibration, but
        > there is only one 'real' way to do it and avoid ending up forever chasing
        > your own tail!
        >
        > The process is fully documented in my 'Firmware Users Guide' for Fred
        > PE0FKO's AVR firmware:
        >
        > http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/
        >
        > If carried out correctly, the calibration (correction) needed for the
        > Si570
        > frequency, is stored in the AVR firmware and automatically applied
        > whenever
        > a frequency command is received over the USB - I2C interface from which
        > ever
        > SDR program you are running.
        >
        > In order for that to be applied correctly, you MUST NOT carry out any
        > other
        > form of frequency calibration in the SDR program you are running,
      • Preston Douglas
        Alan, Thanks for your answer which helped clarify some things for me. I guess the USB drop out problem isn t necessarily RF, but I will take some precautions
        Message 4 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Alan,

          Thanks for your answer which helped clarify some things for me.  I guess the USB drop out problem isn't necessarily RF, but I will take some precautions anyway.  I suppose that will also be a good reason to keep the crystal oscillators in my Genesis 3020 even after I add the outboard Si570.  

          With the Si570, I would be happy with +/- 1 Hz, though .1 would be even better.  I saw the files section where the stability was enhanced with a thermister, but I don't know whether it will work with 13v.  I have more research to do on that, I guess.   I'm going to look at some ways of measuring including eventually GPS.  That is going to evolve in my shack.

          I don't see the tuning working with Genesis 1.1 at all.  I can't go beyond the borders of whatever the panadapter is showing unless I change the LO window.  The LO will change the Si570 just fine, so that I get a new center for the panadapter wherever I set it.  But the LO must be changed manually.  Of course there is no LO window in PSDR40 or PSDR-IQ.   Am I missing something?  Does it need a dll I'm missing?

          As to your page, I recommend it to anyone who wants to learn the basics of SDR, as it goes way beyond Si570 and SoftRocks at this point.  I included it in my QRP Quarterly article about WSPR and SDR as strongly recommended preliminary reading.

          73,

          Preston WJ2V 





          Preston Douglas WJ2V

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Alan <alan4alan@...>
          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 2:09 pm
          Subject: Re: [softrock40] I2C--Long [1 Attachment]

           
          [Attachment(s) from Alan included below]

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Preston"
          Subject: [softrock40] I2C--Long

          >
          > http://homepages. wightcable. net/~g4zfq/ Si570.htm
          >

          Thanks for "promoting" my page. I keep on meaning to remind users that
          "Ctrl - F" on the keyboard will bring up a search bow to look for a keyword.
          Otherwise it can be difficult to find things.

          > I did find that with my little Packer Amp running at 15 watts, I lose the
          > USB connection sometimes.

          I find mine drops out sometimes. I do not know why, maybe it's some other
          USB device. It makes me reluctant to use WSPR with any version of PDSR that
          changes frequency for TX. Although it is the best way to keep spurii low I
          have found it TXing on the wrong frequency!

          >
          > I also found a few ways to calibrate the thing. The part I don't yet
          > understand is what I am changing. If I use CFGR to calibrate, I am
          > writing the calibration offset to the ATMEL chip, right?

          Yes, it writes to the ATTiny, any program that uses USB will then be
          calibrated correctly as long as you do not try to calibrate the program.

          >Genesis 1.1 does not support smooth tuning. To tune outside band segments
          >selected by sending a signal to the I2C by clicking on a band button, the
          >LO setting must be changed directly in the LO box in G1.1.
          > Anybody else using G1.1 with their SoftRock and I2C?
          >

          Smooth tuning is done in the ATTiny it will jump with large changes. I did
          quickly try Genesis and did not notice any trouble.

          > I am going to try the phasing method for high accuracy, and then maybe
          > listen to an FMT (Frequency Measuring Test) from ARRL to see how I do.
          > Should be pretty good, given enough warm up for stability even without an
          > "oven."
          >

          Si570s vary, I am not satisfied with long-term stability on higher
          frequencies. I am quite critical, on of mine moved about 10Hz overnight on
          17m. I'm not sure a heater on the case is too effective. I am now doing some
          tests, but it will take some time to reach a conclusion. I am seeing a
          movement of about 2Hz for 1°C temp change at 10MHz. Also the Si570
          dissipates varying power at different frequencies so it will drift a certain
          amount after changing frequency. I attach a chart that shows a CMOS with a
          Khune heater, this makes a difference but not all that significant. The
          Si570 is in contact with the outside world by conduction along the PCB.

          What sort of accuracy do you expect to need for a measuring test? I use a
          GPS based reference, some have Rubidium standards. I've never actually tried
          a test, I don't know of any local ones. My system seems to be at least as
          good as 0.1Hz.

          73 Alan G4ZFQ
        • g8voip
          Hi Preston, The Genesis version of PSDR is quite a long way behind any of the other PSDR versions available, not too surprising as everyone else has had a head
          Message 5 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Preston,

            The Genesis version of PSDR is quite a long way behind any of the other PSDR versions available, not too surprising as everyone else has had a head start of a few years.

            The Genesis PSDR is very primitive in the frequency control using the USB to I2C interface for the Si570.

            The method is very much like the older versions of Winrad, i.e. you have to set the LO frequency, then you can only tune within that one range. When you reach the extremes of the pan adaptor, you need to change the LO frequency.

            I am sure that as time progresses they will catch up and enhance that side of the program which is its major weakness.

            Although I have that version installed for test purposes, I prefer either of Christos SV1EIA's versions, although I believe the Genesis version is more akin to Guido PE1NNZ's version and perhaps a little easier to use with non supported or multiple sound cards.

            73, Bob G8VOI

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Preston Douglas <pdouglas12@...> wrote:
            >
            > Alan,
            >
            >
            > Thanks for your answer which helped clarify some things for me. I guess the USB drop out problem isn't necessarily RF, but I will take some precautions anyway. I suppose that will also be a good reason to keep the crystal oscillators in my Genesis 3020 even after I add the outboard Si570.
            >
            >
            > With the Si570, I would be happy with +/- 1 Hz, though .1 would be even better. I saw the files section where the stability was enhanced with a thermister, but I don't know whether it will work with 13v. I have more research to do on that, I guess. I'm going to look at some ways of measuring including eventually GPS. That is going to evolve in my shack.
            >
            >
            > I don't see the tuning working with Genesis 1.1 at all. I can't go beyond the borders of whatever the panadapter is showing unless I change the LO window. The LO will change the Si570 just fine, so that I get a new center for the panadapter wherever I set it. But the LO must be changed manually. Of course there is no LO window in PSDR40 or PSDR-IQ. Am I missing something? Does it need a dll I'm missing?
            >
            >
            > As to your page, I recommend it to anyone who wants to learn the basics of SDR, as it goes way beyond Si570 and SoftRocks at this point. I included it in my QRP Quarterly article about WSPR and SDR as strongly recommended preliminary reading.
            >
            >
            > 73,
            >
            >
            > Preston WJ2V
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Preston Douglas WJ2V
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Alan <alan4alan@...>
            > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 2:09 pm
            > Subject: Re: [softrock40] I2C--Long [1 Attachment]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Attachment(s) from Alan included below]
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Preston"
            > Subject: [softrock40] I2C--Long
            >
            > >
            > > http://homepages.wightcable.net/~g4zfq/Si570.htm
            > >
            >
            > Thanks for "promoting" my page. I keep on meaning to remind users that
            > "Ctrl - F" on the keyboard will bring up a search bow to look for a keyword.
            > Otherwise it can be difficult to find things.
            >
            > > I did find that with my little Packer Amp running at 15 watts, I lose the
            > > USB connection sometimes.
            >
            > I find mine drops out sometimes. I do not know why, maybe it's some other
            > USB device. It makes me reluctant to use WSPR with any version of PDSR that
            > changes frequency for TX. Although it is the best way to keep spurii low I
            > have found it TXing on the wrong frequency!
            >
            > >
            > > I also found a few ways to calibrate the thing. The part I don't yet
            > > understand is what I am changing. If I use CFGR to calibrate, I am
            > > writing the calibration offset to the ATMEL chip, right?
            >
            > Yes, it writes to the ATTiny, any program that uses USB will then be
            > calibrated correctly as long as you do not try to calibrate the program.
            >
            > >Genesis 1.1 does not support smooth tuning. To tune outside band segments
            > >selected by sending a signal to the I2C by clicking on a band button, the
            > >LO setting must be changed directly in the LO box in G1.1.
            > > Anybody else using G1.1 with their SoftRock and I2C?
            > >
            >
            > Smooth tuning is done in the ATTiny it will jump with large changes. I did
            > quickly try Genesis and did not notice any trouble.
            >
            > > I am going to try the phasing method for high accuracy, and then maybe
            > > listen to an FMT (Frequency Measuring Test) from ARRL to see how I do.
            > > Should be pretty good, given enough warm up for stability even without an
            > > "oven."
            > >
            >
            > Si570s vary, I am not satisfied with long-term stability on higher
            > frequencies. I am quite critical, on of mine moved about 10Hz overnight on
            > 17m. I'm not sure a heater on the case is too effective. I am now doing some
            > tests, but it will take some time to reach a conclusion. I am seeing a
            > movement of about 2Hz for 1°C temp change at 10MHz. Also the Si570
            > dissipates varying power at different frequencies so it will drift a certain
            > amount after changing frequency. I attach a chart that shows a CMOS with a
            > Khune heater, this makes a difference but not all that significant. The
            > Si570 is in contact with the outside world by conduction along the PCB.
            >
            > What sort of accuracy do you expect to need for a measuring test? I use a
            > GPS based reference, some have Rubidium standards. I've never actually tried
            > a test, I don't know of any local ones. My system seems to be at least as
            > good as 0.1Hz.
            >
            > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
            >
          • Preston Douglas
            Bob, The Genesis 1.1 was ideally suited to the G3020 and appears to be aimed as well to control of the new G59. It is less compatible with Fred s I2C
            Message 6 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Bob,

              The Genesis 1.1 was ideally suited to the G3020 and appears to be aimed as well to control of the new G59.  It is less compatible with Fred's I2C firmware, apparently.  I did like the look of G1.1 though.  I will have to go back and get the PSDR40 and -IQ set up.  I remember, though that PSDR40 managed to reverse the Tune button to transmit on the wrong side of the LO.  At least the Genesis had that fixed!  So, I may just have to be careful and use Christos' IQ version.  

              Preston Douglas WJ2V


              -----Original Message-----
              From: g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 3:30 pm
              Subject: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long [1 Attachment

               
              Hi Preston,

              The Genesis version of PSDR is quite a long way behind any of the other PSDR versions available, not too surprising as everyone else has had a head start of a few years.

              The Genesis PSDR is very primitive in the frequency control using the USB to I2C interface for the Si570.

              The method is very much like the older versions of Winrad, i.e. you have to set the LO frequency, then you can only tune within that one range. When you reach the extremes of the pan adaptor, you need to change the LO frequency.

              I am sure that as time progresses they will catch up and enhance that side of the program which is its major weakness.

              Although I have that version installed for test purposes, I prefer either of Christos SV1EIA's versions, although I believe the Genesis version is more akin to Guido PE1NNZ's version and perhaps a little easier to use with non supported or multiple sound cards.

              73, Bob G8VOI

              --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, Preston Douglas <pdouglas12@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Alan,
              >
              >
              > Thanks for your answer which helped clarify some things for me. I guess the USB drop out problem isn't necessarily RF, but I will take some precautions anyway. I suppose that will also be a good reason to keep the crystal oscillators in my Genesis 3020 even after I add the outboard Si570.
              >
              >
              > With the Si570, I would be happy with +/- 1 Hz, though .1 would be even better. I saw the files section where the stability was enhanced with a thermister, but I don't know whether it will work with 13v. I have more research to do on that, I guess. I'm going to look at some ways of measuring including eventually GPS. That is going to evolve in my shack.
              >
              >
              > I don't see the tuning working with Genesis 1.1 at all. I can't go beyond the borders of whatever the panadapter is showing unless I change the LO window. The LO will change the Si570 just fine, so that I get a new center for the panadapter wherever I set it. But the LO must be changed manually. Of course there is no LO window in PSDR40 or PSDR-IQ. Am I missing something? Does it need a dll I'm missing?
              >
              >
              > As to your page, I recommend it to anyone who wants to learn the basics of SDR, as it goes way beyond Si570 and SoftRocks at this point. I included it in my QRP Quarterly article about WSPR and SDR as strongly recommended preliminary reading.
              >
              >
              > 73,
              >
              >
              > Preston WJ2V
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Preston Douglas WJ2V
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Alan <alan4alan@. ..>
              > To: softrock40@yahoogro ups.com
              > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 2:09 pm
              > Subject: Re: [softrock40] I2C--Long [1 Attachment]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Attachment( s) from Alan included below]
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Preston"
              > Subject: [softrock40] I2C--Long
              >
              > >
              > > http://homepages. wightcable. net/~g4zfq/ Si570.htm
              > >
              >
              > Thanks for "promoting" my page. I keep on meaning to remind users that
              > "Ctrl - F" on the keyboard will bring up a search bow to look for a keyword.
              > Otherwise it can be difficult to find things.
              >
              > > I did find that with my little Packer Amp running at 15 watts, I lose the
              > > USB connection sometimes.
              >
              > I find mine drops out sometimes. I do not know why, maybe it's some other
              > USB device. It makes me reluctant to use WSPR with any version of PDSR that
              > changes frequency for TX. Although it is the best way to keep spurii low I
              > have found it TXing on the wrong frequency!
              >
              > >
              > > I also found a few ways to calibrate the thing. The part I don't yet
              > > understand is what I am changing. If I use CFGR to calibrate, I am
              > > writing the calibration offset to the ATMEL chip, right?
              >
              > Yes, it writes to the ATTiny, any program that uses USB will then be
              > calibrated correctly as long as you do not try to calibrate the program.
              >
              > >Genesis 1.1 does not support smooth tuning. To tune outside band segments
              > >selected by sending a signal to the I2C by clicking on a band button, the
              > >LO setting must be changed directly in the LO box in G1.1.
              > > Anybody else using G1.1 with their SoftRock and I2C?
              > >
              >
              > Smooth tuning is done in the ATTiny it will jump with large changes. I did
              > quickly try Genesis and did not notice any trouble.
              >
              > > I am going to try the phasing method for high accuracy, and then maybe
              > > listen to an FMT (Frequency Measuring Test) from ARRL to see how I do.
              > > Should be pretty good, given enough warm up for stability even without an
              > > "oven."
              > >
              >
              > Si570s vary, I am not satisfied with long-term stability on higher
              > frequencies. I am quite critical, on of mine moved about 10Hz overnight on
              > 17m. I'm not sure a heater on the case is too effective. I am now doing some
              > tests, but it will take some time to reach a conclusion. I am seeing a
              > movement of about 2Hz for 1°C temp change at 10MHz. Also the Si570
              > dissipates varying power at different frequencies so it will drift a certain
              > amount after changing frequency. I attach a chart that shows a CMOS with a
              > Khune heater, this makes a difference but not all that significant. The
              > Si570 is in contact with the outside world by conduction along the PCB.
              >
              > What sort of accuracy do you expect to need for a measuring test? I use a
              > GPS based reference, some have Rubidium standards. I've never actually tried
              > a test, I don't know of any local ones. My system seems to be at least as
              > good as 0.1Hz.
              >
              > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
              >

            • Preston
              So, Bob, will this work too? Use Genesis 1.1 which has only manual tuning of the Si570 in the LO box. Set the dial setting to 10.000 in G1.1 (assuming WWV is
              Message 7 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                So, Bob, will this work too?

                Use Genesis 1.1 which has only manual tuning of the Si570 in the LO box. Set the dial setting to 10.000 in G1.1 (assuming WWV is adequately strong--right now I can't even hear it!). Set LO to 10. 020. Open CFGSR and use the tune control in CFGSR to center the WWV signal using the 32X magnification screen in G1.1. Use phase screen to sharpen it even tighter if possible.


                Then set the config window in CFGSR to 10.020 in the "real" window (B method) and push calibrate button.

                Leave the calibration setting (this is the window that opens when F10 pressed) in G1.1 unchanged from the default.

                Reason I use LO at 10.020 is to avoid the problem of the sound card dip at the LO frequency.

                I hope all this makes sense.

                Done.

                All of this is to work around fact that WinRad doesn't like my two sound card setup, and I can't hear the signals I'm seeing in WinRad.

                But the above should work, no?

                Preston WJ2V
              • Alan
                ... From: Preston Subject: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long [1 Attachment ... I can t answer your question, I use a different technique. But a good way to check
                Message 8 of 15 , Apr 12, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Preston"
                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long [1 Attachment


                  >
                  > So, Bob, will this work too?
                  >
                  > Use Genesis 1.1 which has only manual tuning of the Si570 in the LO box.
                  > Set the dial setting to 10.000 in G1.1 (assuming WWV is adequately
                  > strong--right now I can't even hear it!). Set LO to 10. 020. Open CFGSR
                  > and use the tune control in CFGSR to center the WWV signal using the 32X
                  > magnification screen in G1.1. Use phase screen to sharpen it even tighter
                  > if possible.
                  >
                  >
                  > Then set the config window in CFGSR to 10.020 in the "real" window (B
                  > method) and push calibrate button.
                  >

                  I can't answer your question, I use a different technique.

                  But a good way to check that you have it right is to receive WWV on another
                  receiver.
                  Set your Softrock to 10.000MHZ with CFGSR (You will hear the Si570 40MHz/4)
                  then you should find them coincide, move the Si570 1Hz and get a 1Hz beat.

                  This also will show you the drift. I've not looked at the 32X on Genesis but
                  your ears will easily differentiate fractions of Hz.

                  73 Alan G4ZFQ
                • g8voip
                  Hi Preston, A few comments, firstly I do not know why you need to offset your sound card to avoid the LO when using PSDR. I thought all versions of PSDR use a
                  Message 9 of 15 , Apr 13, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Preston,

                    A few comments, firstly I do not know why you need to offset your sound card to avoid the LO when using PSDR.

                    I thought all versions of PSDR use a 'pseudo IF frequency', which is normally set at 9kHz, but can be set to anything suitable by the user. Having said that, I did just take a look and cannot see anything obvious in the Genesis set up, so maybe they have not implemented that function, or perhaps they simply do it by changing the 'default' Si570 frequency as mine is not set to the default value, and I know I have not changed it!

                    That effectively shifts the point you are listening to away from the LO frequency.

                    If you are having to shift 20kHz to avoid the LO / centre frequency 'noise', then it sounds like you have a serious problem with your sound card or set up that you need to sort out.

                    Seems rather pointless 'manually' building in a 20kHz offset as the frequency of everything you have displayed on the screen would be incorrect, really defeats the whole calibration process.

                    As far as running both Genesis and CFGR at the same time to try and perform the calibration, I am not sure whether that would work, as normally Windows protests if two programs try and open or use the same USB device.

                    Again, just gave it a quick try, and it appears to work on my Win2000 PC, not got the XP one fired up at the moment. Guess you could remove the check from the Genesis 'USB Si570 board' then run 'CFGSR'.

                    I think you might run into other problems with calibration in general if you manually insert a 20kHz offset as you would have to make sure all SDR programs you use did the same, might defeat the whole accurate calibration process.

                    Not sure why Winrad would not work, guess might depend on what sound card driver you are using, generally the ASIO4ALL works well, and should give you the option to select either of your sound cards.

                    Sounds like you really need to resolve the main problem with the sound card first, then you could use the SDR programs properly and make use of the calibration features.

                    73, Bob G8VOI


                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Preston" <pdouglas12@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > So, Bob, will this work too?
                    >
                    > Use Genesis 1.1 which has only manual tuning of the Si570 in the LO box. Set the dial setting to 10.000 in G1.1 (assuming WWV is adequately strong--right now I can't even hear it!). Set LO to 10. 020. Open CFGSR and use the tune control in CFGSR to center the WWV signal using the 32X magnification screen in G1.1. Use phase screen to sharpen it even tighter if possible.
                    >
                    >
                    > Then set the config window in CFGSR to 10.020 in the "real" window (B method) and push calibrate button.
                    >
                    > Leave the calibration setting (this is the window that opens when F10 pressed) in G1.1 unchanged from the default.
                    >
                    > Reason I use LO at 10.020 is to avoid the problem of the sound card dip at the LO frequency.
                    >
                    > I hope all this makes sense.
                    >
                    > Done.
                    >
                    > All of this is to work around fact that WinRad doesn't like my two sound card setup, and I can't hear the signals I'm seeing in WinRad.
                    >
                    > But the above should work, no?
                    >
                    > Preston WJ2V
                    >
                  • g8voip
                    Hi Preston, Having now actually woken up this morning, I realised the situation with the Genesis version of PSDR is probably quite different, and it would not
                    Message 10 of 15 , Apr 13, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Preston,

                      Having now actually woken up this morning, I realised the situation with the Genesis version of PSDR is probably quite different, and it would not use the 'pseudo' 9kHz IF.

                      In order to use that IF system, you need the LO to track the frequency you are tuning to by the 9kHz offset. In the Genesis version of PSDR, it does not do this, the LO frequency is set and fixed, hence the lack of continuous tuning outside of the displayed spectrum.

                      Not using the IF system you loose the benefits of offsetting any centre frequency noise away from the wanted signal, as well as really being able to optimise the image rejection at the image of the IF.

                      Having the fixed LO frequency also has implications for transmitting, so really you would be much better off using one of the other versions of PSDR and trying to sort out any sound card issues.

                      Hopefully the Genesis version will progress given time up to the same standard as the other versions of PSDR, but at the moment it is quite a way behind.

                      73, Bob G8VOI
                    • tom loebl
                      Sorry Alan...I had some internet issues and I was not sure the first posting had made it... Thanks, Tom
                      Message 11 of 15 , Apr 13, 2010
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                        Sorry Alan...I had some internet issues and I was not sure the first posting had made it...

                        Thanks,

                        Tom

                        On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Alan <alan4alan@...> wrote:

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "tom loebl"
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: I2C--Long


                        Bob,

                        I notice if I calibrate in PSDR the frequency is off by about 23 khz in
                        Rocky. Is there an offset I can apply in Rocky so I don't have to
                        recalibrate between it and PSDR?

                        But the you have just posted the answer, Bob has just told you  below. And
                        the message I sent also gave you the answer.

                        73 Alan G4ZFQ

                        On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:40 PM, g8voip <g8voi.reeves59@...>wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Preston,
                        >
                        > There are many ways you could carry out the frequency calibration, but
                        > there is only one 'real' way to do it and avoid ending up forever chasing
                        > your own tail!
                        >
                        > The process is fully documented in my 'Firmware Users Guide' for Fred
                        > PE0FKO's AVR firmware:
                        >
                        > http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/
                        >
                        > If carried out correctly, the calibration (correction) needed for the
                        > Si570
                        > frequency, is stored in the AVR firmware and automatically applied
                        > whenever
                        > a frequency command is received over the USB - I2C interface from which
                        > ever
                        > SDR program you are running.
                        >
                        > In order for that to be applied correctly, you MUST NOT carry out any
                        > other
                        > form of frequency calibration in the SDR program you are running,



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