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Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

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  • Bruce Tanner
    Second audio attachment: bet
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 10, 2010
    Second audio attachment:

    bet
    --------------

    On 3/10/2010 10:31 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:
     
    Well it may very well be a latency/driver problem but there is no way to adjust these in SDR-radio. I can tell you it is real here and if I did not have comparison programs I would think I had something wrong in my hardware. You can or could overdrive the soundcard with the softrock in my setup using the EMU 0202 as it has front panel volume controls and red overdrve or clipping led's on the front panel. On a busy band you can put it into clipping for sure. I keep the levels much lower and all the way down for this test latest SDR-radio test. the funny thing is whatever he did in the latest version it suddenly appeared. I have been using versions since 1A with no problems and I actually thought the audio was quite good. If I get industrious I will try my internal soundcard and see what that does.

    Doug.



    From: Alan <alan4alan@googlemai l.com>
    To: softrock40@yahoogro ups.com
    Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 4:40:14 AM
    Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

     


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mr Doug -"
    Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

    > What I think is happening is the front-end of his DSP engine is
    > overloading. I have reduced my EMU 0202 volume controls to minimum and it
    > is still not enough. I would have to actually put resistor dividers in now
    > to lower it anymore and I do not want to do that.The idea here is to input
    > the highest level that does not overload the A/D of the soundcard and as
    > long as the signal is not in overload the the software should normalize it
    > to whatever it needs

    > there is a definite intermod problem that sounds like splatter on all
    > signals. It is not nice to listen to. I was thinking of going back to 1D.
    >It appears to be overloading although I cannot solve it by turning the
    >input levels all the way down om my EMU 0202. Sounds like splatter on all
    >signals on a crowded band (75 meters tonight) and yes I have no NR.NB or
    >equalization enabled.

    Your comments made me try it.
    It is working well, XP and D44. Nice audio. It actually drives my output
    card a lot smoother than PSDR. I certainly am not having your problem.

    However, just off the side of some strong SSB stations I get a slight
    "crackle" along with the normal splatter from a wide signal. Only a quick
    check but I could not reproduce that with Rocky. This is only when fairly
    close. It seems more noticeable at 96KHz and not with every strong signal.
    Simon is making good progress, a very nice console, I look forward to USB
    tuning.
    I like the SW database.

    I'm not an expert but your complaint seems like a latency/buffer problem
    unless it is something else that does not occur with my system. . Certainly
    the Softrock can not overload a soundcard input.

    73 Alan G4ZFQ


  • Bruce Tanner
    You will note that there is significant background noise on these sample clips. The BC station is local and the noise is due to attenuated signal because of a
    Message 2 of 20 , Mar 10, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      You will note that there is significant background noise on these sample clips. The BC station is local and the noise is due to attenuated signal because of a tuner in line. It is not able to actually tune below 160 meters. If I take the tuner out of the system that signal is 'full quieting', to use a phrase from the FM modes!

      Bruce
      ----------------

      On 3/10/2010 11:09 AM, Bruce Tanner wrote:
       

      Second audio attachment:

      bet
      ------------ --

      On 3/10/2010 10:31 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:

       
      Well it may very well be a latency/driver problem but there is no way to adjust these in SDR-radio. I can tell you it is real here and if I did not have comparison programs I would think I had something wrong in my hardware. You can or could overdrive the soundcard with the softrock in my setup using the EMU 0202 as it has front panel volume controls and red overdrve or clipping led's on the front panel. On a busy band you can put it into clipping for sure. I keep the levels much lower and all the way down for this test latest SDR-radio test. the funny thing is whatever he did in the latest version it suddenly appeared. I have been using versions since 1A with no problems and I actually thought the audio was quite good. If I get industrious I will try my internal soundcard and see what that does.

      Doug.



      From: Alan <alan4alan@googlemai l.com>
      To: softrock40@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 4:40:14 AM
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

       


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mr Doug -"
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

      > What I think is happening is the front-end of his DSP engine is
      > overloading. I have reduced my EMU 0202 volume controls to minimum and it
      > is still not enough. I would have to actually put resistor dividers in now
      > to lower it anymore and I do not want to do that.The idea here is to input
      > the highest level that does not overload the A/D of the soundcard and as
      > long as the signal is not in overload the the software should normalize it
      > to whatever it needs

      > there is a definite intermod problem that sounds like splatter on all
      > signals. It is not nice to listen to. I was thinking of going back to 1D.
      >It appears to be overloading although I cannot solve it by turning the
      >input levels all the way down om my EMU 0202. Sounds like splatter on all
      >signals on a crowded band (75 meters tonight) and yes I have no NR.NB or
      >equalization enabled.

      Your comments made me try it.
      It is working well, XP and D44. Nice audio. It actually drives my output
      card a lot smoother than PSDR. I certainly am not having your problem.

      However, just off the side of some strong SSB stations I get a slight
      "crackle" along with the normal splatter from a wide signal. Only a quick
      check but I could not reproduce that with Rocky. This is only when fairly
      close. It seems more noticeable at 96KHz and not with every strong signal.
      Simon is making good progress, a very nice console, I look forward to USB
      tuning.
      I like the SW database.

      I'm not an expert but your complaint seems like a latency/buffer problem
      unless it is something else that does not occur with my system. . Certainly
      the Softrock can not overload a soundcard input.

      73 Alan G4ZFQ


    • Alan
      ... From: Bruce Tanner Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem ... I find I can almost run the two together. V1E and PSDR 1.9.0 sr40. Starting them in
      Message 3 of 20 , Mar 10, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bruce Tanner"
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem


        > You will note that there is significant background noise on these sample
        > clips. The BC station is local and the noise is due to attenuated signal
        > because of a tuner in line. It is not able to actually tune below 160
        > meters. If I take the tuner out of the system that signal is 'full
        > quieting', to use a phrase from the FM modes!


        I find I can almost run the two together. V1E and PSDR 1.9.0 sr40. Starting
        them in standby on the same cards enables a check to be made by switching
        one off and one on.

        On a weak AM signals around 9.8MHz I find it difficult to decide which is
        better.

        I wonder if your test is valid? Please check again, this could be important
        for Simon.

        73 Alan G4ZFQ
      • Alan
        ... From: Mr Doug - Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem ... There is a method for latency on the audio setup (audio output), I don t know if it
        Message 4 of 20 , Mar 10, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mr Doug -"
          Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem


          >Well it may very well be a latency/driver problem but there is no way to
          >adjust these in SDR-radio.

          There is a method for latency on the audio setup (audio output), I don't
          know if it works. Buffer setting on my D44 is on it's control panel.

          >You can or could overdrive the soundcard with the softrock in my setup
          >using the EMU 0202 as it has front panel volume controls and red overdrve
          >or clipping led's on the front panel.

          Yes, I do not know the EMU. I suppose it has amplifiers in the box. Most
          line inputs seem to need more than a Softrock normally provides.
          .
          > If I get industrious I will try my internal soundcard and see what that
          > does.

          It will be interesting, as I said it does not seem quite right on mine.

          73 Alan G4ZFQ
        • Bruce Tanner
          Alan, I was going to submit a couple of new files but the task was foiled. I did take the tuner out of the line so I could get better signals. Both software
          Message 5 of 20 , Mar 10, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Alan, I was going to submit a couple of new files but the task was foiled. I did take the tuner out of the line so I could get better signals. Both software programs then provided plenty of comfortable listening with signals well above the noise level. When I attempted to 'play' the file recorded from SDR Radio, for some reason, my Windows media squawked with an error that it could not play the file. I made another and the same thing occurred. What is really strange is that it had played the files from that program earlier with no problem. One of the new found mysteries of Windows 7, I guess.

            At any rate, and for what it is worth. I tuned my IC-756 Pro II in to WILX, noted the S-meter reading at +30 over S-9 on the 204 foot, G5RV. I then calibrated PSDR-IQ to that S-meter reading which also then gave an S-9 +30db. I then closed PSDR-IQ and loaded SDR Radio tuned to the same station and with the same antenna, no tuner in line. The S-meter on that program did not move above S-5. I really don't think that means much as Simon does not seem to have that calibrated yet anyway. I can change the functioning of the S-meter simply by changing the 'scope bandwidth' from one setting to another. In any of those settings I was hearing the WILX signal well above S-9 according to the proverbial, calibrated ear drum.

            Having said all that, I still cannot explain the differences in the status of the 'weak signals' provided while the tuner was in line. In both of those cases the system setup was identical. I do not know, however, if there were setting in SDR Radio which should have been made to optimize reception with that software. I also am not aware of features and tweaks which may be needed and have not yet been installed in the development of the software which Simon will yet come up with.

            Long story short... it is far too early to make such comparisons and I offer my apologies to both programmers for having done so at this time. Hopefully, it will be useful feedback some where along the line.

            Regards,

            Bruce, K2BET
            -------------------

            On 3/10/2010 2:19 PM, Alan wrote:
             


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bruce Tanner"
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] SDR-Radio 1E problem

            > You will note that there is significant background noise on these sample
            > clips. The BC station is local and the noise is due to attenuated signal
            > because of a tuner in line. It is not able to actually tune below 160
            > meters. If I take the tuner out of the system that signal is 'full
            > quieting', to use a phrase from the FM modes!

            I find I can almost run the two together. V1E and PSDR 1.9.0 sr40. Starting
            them in standby on the same cards enables a check to be made by switching
            one off and one on.

            On a weak AM signals around 9.8MHz I find it difficult to decide which is
            better.

            I wonder if your test is valid? Please check again, this could be important
            for Simon.

            73 Alan G4ZFQ

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