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Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:

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  • drmail377
    There is a black hole in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual spinner knob that covers
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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      There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.

      Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".

      Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.

      This is the first building block we need.


      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
      >
      > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
      >
      > 73,
      > Pete, NI9N
      > www.garage-shoppe.com
      > www.lazydogengineering.com
      >
    • Mark J Dulcey
      ... The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ s Universal VFO Controller (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html ) which will operate
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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        On 3/1/2010 6:02 AM, drmail377 wrote:
        >
        >
        > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
        > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
        > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
        > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
        > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
        > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
        > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
        > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
        >
        > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
        >
        > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes
        > to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass
        > filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
        >
        > This is the first building block we need.

        The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ's Universal VFO Controller
        (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html )
        which will operate a variety of frequency generation modules (both DDS
        and Si570). But it's not open source, and it uses a two-knob tuning
        system (coarse and fine) with low-resolution mechanical encoders.

        This idea is actually pretty close to something I was planning to work
        on. I want single-knob capability using a higher-resolution optical
        encoder -- that would make it a premium priced design, a really nice
        optical encoder is a $50 part or more (examples: Digikey 102-1008-ND and
        102-1010-ND), though there is also a decent lower-resolution one in the
        $15-20 class (Digikey EM14A0D-C24-L064S-ND). I don't like mechanical
        encoders; they don't have enough resolution for a proper VFO feel, they
        wear out, and most of them have detents.

        I was originally planning to make it work with the DDS-60 from AmQRP
        (AD9851) and the new DDS-150 from PQRP (AD995x), but I recently found
        out about WA6UFQ's Si570 module in the same form factor so I'll add that
        as well. I like the idea of working with a separate frequency generation
        module so I can take advantage of the good RF layout design that others
        have done and not have to get personally involved in that, and
        separating the RF part of the design from the digital control part is
        good for noise minimization.

        I'm currently looking at using a PIC18F series part, perhaps one with
        USB capability so a computer interface could eventually be added, though
        I'd consider using a PIC24F if that doesn't turn out to be fast enough.
        (The PIC24F part would complicate the design a bit because it's a
        low-voltage part and most of the inexpensive surplus LCD modules are 5V
        parts; either the LCD selection would have to be limited or voltage
        translators would be needed.) I'd be programming in C, not assembler,
        which should speed the development process a little (please, no flame
        wars about the relative merits of computer languages - I've done a lot
        of them and know what works for me) and make it easier to shift to
        different PIC microcontrollers in the future (the C compiler and
        libraries hide most of the differences between the models). And yes, it
        will be 100% open source, hardware and software, though I will sell kits
        if there is enough interest.
      • john_tartar
        N3ZI s new 2010 DDS definitely has a spinner control, using a mechanical encoder. There s a youtube video of the tuning action.
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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          N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a mechanical encoder.   There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
          http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html

          But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports, you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping included, and yes, it works fine with them)

          I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc" that's not really part of a DDS.  But if you are talking about a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based on the DDS frequency.  There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that.  Other people have done that.

          It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked(80MHz) output up to 34MHz.  With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up through 15 meters.  If you really want high side on 10Meters then you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the 8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with this stuff anyway.

          If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.

          The code is written in "C" and is not released.   It would be far easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it would be to figure it out.  Writing code that works is one thing, writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.


          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@...> wrote:
          >
          > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
          >
          > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
          >
          > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
          >
          > This is the first building block we need.
          >
          >
          > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
          > >
          > > 73,
          > > Pete, NI9N
          > > www.garage-shoppe.com
          > > www.lazydogengineering.com
          > >
          >
        • Peter
          This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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            This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

            To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

            Am I in the ballpark?

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
            >
            > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
            >
            > 73,
            > Pete, NI9N
            > www.garage-shoppe.com
            > www.lazydogengineering.com
            >
          • Larry Acklin
            Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards public.
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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              Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards public.  Else you will end up with single source, and you want to encourage innovation.
               
              I think the pricing is about right. 
               
              73
              Larry
              KB3CUF

              On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter <pete@...> wrote:
               

              This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

              To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

              Am I in the ballpark?



              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
              >
              > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
              >
              > 73,
              > Pete, NI9N
              > www.garage-shoppe.com
              > www.lazydogengineering.com
              >


            • Russ Hines
              Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to do with KB9YIG s SoftRock radios? 73, Russ WB8ZCC
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to do with KB9YIG's SoftRock radios?

                73,
                Russ
                WB8ZCC




                Peter wrote:
                 

                This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

                To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

                Am I in the ballpark?

                --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
                >
                > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                >
                > 73,
                > Pete, NI9N
                > www.garage-shoppe. com
                > www.lazydogengineer ing.com
                >



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              • k5nwa
                There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip; It works well and it s configurable.
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                  There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                  < http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Kits/Kits.html >

                  It works well and it's configurable.

                  At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:


                  >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                  >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                  ><http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html>http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html
                  >
                  >
                  >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                  >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                  >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                  >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                  >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                  >
                  >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                  >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                  >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                  >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                  >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                  >people have done that.
                  >
                  >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked(80MHz) output up to
                  >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                  >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                  >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                  >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                  >this stuff anyway.
                  >
                  >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                  >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                  >
                  >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                  >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                  >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                  >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                  > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                  > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                  > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                  > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                  > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                  > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                  > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                  > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                  > >
                  > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                  > >
                  > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                  > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                  > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                  > >
                  > > This is the first building block we need.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                  > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                  > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                  > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                  > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                  > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                  > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                  > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                  > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                  > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                  > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                  > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                  > > >
                  > > > 73,
                  > > > Pete, NI9N
                  > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                  > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  Cecil
                  K5NWA
                  www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                  "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                • Peter
                  Larry, I agree that the idea is to foster innovation. I would want people to try designing modules themselves. Thank you for your input on the pricing, and
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                    Larry, I agree that the idea is to foster innovation. I would want people to try designing modules themselves. Thank you for your input on the pricing, and for your suggestion.

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Larry Acklin <acklin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out
                    > (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards
                    > public. Else you will end up with single source, and you want to encourage
                    > innovation.
                    >
                    > I think the pricing is about right.
                    >
                    > 73
                    > Larry
                    > KB3CUF
                    >
                    > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter <pete@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis
                    > > behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR
                    > > (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled
                    > > modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and
                    > > assembly notes online, $50.
                    > >
                    > > To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace
                    > > the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost:
                    > > about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.
                    > >
                    > > Am I in the ballpark?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter"
                    > > <pete@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What
                    > > I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as
                    > > well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards,
                    > > interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards,
                    > > interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably
                    > > would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly,
                    > > and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would
                    > > be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large,
                    > > expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with
                    > > different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be
                    > > worthwhile?
                    > > >
                    > > > 73,
                    > > > Pete, NI9N
                    > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                    > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • k5nwa
                    ... I don t know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of small boards to build conventional receivers and they re fairly popular. So the concept is
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                      4321`At 11:38 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
                      >This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                      >analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                      >crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio)
                      >could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits,
                      >$65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                      >
                      >To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                      >replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and
                      >multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20
                      >for just the boards.
                      >
                      >Am I in the ballpark?

                      I don't know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of
                      small boards to build conventional receivers and they're fairly
                      popular. So the concept is good, but the price may be an issue, a
                      small SoftRock sells for $13 from Tony.

                      < http://partsandkits.com/rftoolkits.php >

                      Most of the DDS chips that are reasonably inexpensive have a lot of
                      spur issues that is why the SI570 is in use, another plus is that the
                      output is already in digital form. when you can see the spectrum the
                      spurs is a big turnoff.




                      Cecil
                      K5NWA
                      www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                      "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                    • Peter
                      Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning about and experimentation with SDRs. That s why Tony started the Softrock project, as I
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                        Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes.

                        I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.

                        73,
                        Pete, NI9N
                        www.garage-shoppe.com
                        www.lazydogengineering.com
                        Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Russ Hines <russ@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to
                        > do with KB9YIG's SoftRock radios?
                        >
                        > 73,
                        > Russ
                        > WB8ZCC
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Peter wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                        > > analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                        > > crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could
                        > > be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards
                        > > with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                        > >
                        > > To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                        > > replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband
                        > > filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the
                        > > boards.
                        > >
                        > > Am I in the ballpark?
                        > >
                        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter" <pete@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits?
                        > > What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB
                        > > connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                        > > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                        > > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                        > > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount
                        > > parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could
                        > > buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try
                        > > out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive
                        > > project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with
                        > > different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like
                        > > this be worthwhile?
                        > > >
                        > > > 73,
                        > > > Pete, NI9N
                        > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                        > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________ NOD32 4903 (20100228) Information __________
                        > >
                        > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                        > > http://www.eset.com
                        >
                      • Peter
                        Thanks for your input, Cecil. I m not trying to compete with Tony, and at his prices I don t think anyone could. I see this concept as somewhat complimentary
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                          Thanks for your input, Cecil. I'm not trying to compete with Tony, and at his prices I don't think anyone could. I see this concept as somewhat complimentary to what Tony's doing. I'll check out Diz's website. The URL sounds a lot like Dan's Small Parts and Kits. Same guy?

                          73,
                          Pete, NI9N
                          www.lazydogengineering.com
                          www.garage-shoppe.com
                          Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > 4321`At 11:38 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
                          > >This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                          > >analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                          > >crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio)
                          > >could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits,
                          > >$65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                          > >
                          > >To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                          > >replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and
                          > >multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20
                          > >for just the boards.
                          > >
                          > >Am I in the ballpark?
                          >
                          > I don't know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of
                          > small boards to build conventional receivers and they're fairly
                          > popular. So the concept is good, but the price may be an issue, a
                          > small SoftRock sells for $13 from Tony.
                          >
                          > < http://partsandkits.com/rftoolkits.php >
                          >
                          > Most of the DDS chips that are reasonably inexpensive have a lot of
                          > spur issues that is why the SI570 is in use, another plus is that the
                          > output is already in digital form. when you can see the spectrum the
                          > spurs is a big turnoff.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Cecil
                          > K5NWA
                          > www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com
                          >
                          > "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                          >
                        • Dave - WB6DHW
                          Mark: I make a couple of boards you might be interested in. My 995x board will accept an AD9951, AD9952, AD9953, or AD9954. My 9912 board will take an AD9912.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mark:
                            I make a couple of boards you might be interested in.
                            My 995x board will accept an AD9951, AD9952, AD9953, or AD9954. My 9912
                            board will take an AD9912. Both have a PIC18F2550 with all unused I/O
                            pins brought out to headers. With a bootloader burned into the chip, all
                            firmware updates can be done over the USB bus.
                            Buck Ewing has written firmware to make the 995x into a stand alone
                            generator. Since I still haven't had a chance(I have the programs) to
                            test it out, I have not pushed it yet. Buck is also working on similar
                            firmware for the 9912 board. Both use a rotary encoder for tuning. If
                            you are interested, I can send you a copy of the software.

                            Dave - WB6DHW
                            <http://wb6dhw.com>

                            Mark J Dulcey wrote:
                            > On 3/1/2010 6:02 AM, drmail377 wrote:
                            >
                            >> There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
                            >> What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                            >> "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
                            >> PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
                            >> superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
                            >> like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
                            >> 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
                            >> expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                            >>
                            >> Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                            >>
                            >> Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes
                            >> to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass
                            >> filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                            >>
                            >> This is the first building block we need.
                            >>
                            >
                            > The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ's Universal VFO Controller
                            > (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html )
                            > which will operate a variety of frequency generation modules (both DDS
                            > and Si570). But it's not open source, and it uses a two-knob tuning
                            > system (coarse and fine) with low-resolution mechanical encoders.
                            >
                            > This idea is actually pretty close to something I was planning to work
                            > on. I want single-knob capability using a higher-resolution optical
                            > encoder -- that would make it a premium priced design, a really nice
                            > optical encoder is a $50 part or more (examples: Digikey 102-1008-ND and
                            > 102-1010-ND), though there is also a decent lower-resolution one in the
                            > $15-20 class (Digikey EM14A0D-C24-L064S-ND). I don't like mechanical
                            > encoders; they don't have enough resolution for a proper VFO feel, they
                            > wear out, and most of them have detents.
                            >
                            > I was originally planning to make it work with the DDS-60 from AmQRP
                            > (AD9851) and the new DDS-150 from PQRP (AD995x), but I recently found
                            > out about WA6UFQ's Si570 module in the same form factor so I'll add that
                            > as well. I like the idea of working with a separate frequency generation
                            > module so I can take advantage of the good RF layout design that others
                            > have done and not have to get personally involved in that, and
                            > separating the RF part of the design from the digital control part is
                            > good for noise minimization.
                            >
                            > I'm currently looking at using a PIC18F series part, perhaps one with
                            > USB capability so a computer interface could eventually be added, though
                            > I'd consider using a PIC24F if that doesn't turn out to be fast enough.
                            > (The PIC24F part would complicate the design a bit because it's a
                            > low-voltage part and most of the inexpensive surplus LCD modules are 5V
                            > parts; either the LCD selection would have to be limited or voltage
                            > translators would be needed.) I'd be programming in C, not assembler,
                            > which should speed the development process a little (please, no flame
                            > wars about the relative merits of computer languages - I've done a lot
                            > of them and know what works for me) and make it easier to shift to
                            > different PIC microcontrollers in the future (the C compiler and
                            > libraries hide most of the differences between the models). And yes, it
                            > will be 100% open source, hardware and software, though I will sell kits
                            > if there is enough interest.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • k5nwa
                            ... There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement the mixer, it
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              At 12:43 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                              >Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning
                              >about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the
                              >Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this
                              >group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't
                              >want to step on anyone's toes.
                              >
                              >I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and
                              >USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD
                              >configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to
                              >try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole
                              >radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with
                              >this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.
                              >
                              >73,
                              >Pete, NI9N
                              >www.garage-shoppe.com
                              >www.lazydogengineering.com
                              >Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                              There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with
                              the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement
                              the mixer, it works at much higher frequencies than the standard
                              SoftRock mixer, I'm getting good results at 2M at present and the
                              scheme could work at much higher frequencies (GHz), I'm not finished
                              but I already have a scheme that might work even better. Having
                              modules would speed the development up versus chopping up SoftRocks.

                              I'm not sure how many in this group are actively working on
                              improvements , I would guess that most are passengers for the ride
                              but having the modules available might make more participate in
                              trying out new things, the more the merrier.



                              Cecil
                              K5NWA
                              www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                              "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                            • Larry Acklin
                              I second that emotion. a Lego approach would let one concentrate on the area of innovation, letting the other modules work as appliances. How many of us
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I second that emotion.
                                 
                                a "Lego" approach would let one concentrate on the area of innovation, letting the other modules work as appliances.  How many of us care about the PC we design great programs for?
                                 
                                Well, you know what I mean- I don't hand build a speaker to listen to music.
                                 
                                Larry
                                 


                                 
                                On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:28 PM, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
                                 

                                At 12:43 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                >Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning
                                >about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the
                                >Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this
                                >group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't
                                >want to step on anyone's toes.
                                >
                                >I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and
                                >USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD
                                >configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to
                                >try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole
                                >radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with
                                >this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.
                                >
                                >73,
                                >Pete, NI9N
                                >www.garage-shoppe.com
                                >www.lazydogengineering.com
                                >Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                                There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with
                                the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement
                                the mixer, it works at much higher frequencies than the standard
                                SoftRock mixer, I'm getting good results at 2M at present and the
                                scheme could work at much higher frequencies (GHz), I'm not finished
                                but I already have a scheme that might work even better. Having
                                modules would speed the development up versus chopping up SoftRocks.

                                I'm not sure how many in this group are actively working on
                                improvements , I would guess that most are passengers for the ride
                                but having the modules available might make more participate in
                                trying out new things, the more the merrier.


                                Cecil
                                K5NWA
                                www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                                "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."


                              • Rob
                                Hi Pete, Relating that to the Softrock... Frankly you would be reinventing the wheel. IMO there wouldn t be demand to make money from it. A Softrock backplane
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Pete,

                                  Relating that to the Softrock... Frankly you would be reinventing the wheel. IMO there wouldn't be demand to make money from it. A Softrock backplane has been discussed many times.

                                  If you like to form a group to redesign the same technology as the SR6.3+MoBo V4.3 combination, good luck, see you in 2 years!

                                  Personally I'd like to see a backplane version of the technology as you describe, but it has to have the support of all parties. Perhaps the time for it will be after the SDR-Widget project is mature?

                                  Cheers,
                                  Rob
                                  (M0RZF)

                                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                • ijdownie@optusnet.com.au
                                  It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you have something quite different in mind? Ian
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you have something quite different in mind?

                                    Ian

                                  • Peter Johnson
                                    Hi Ian. I don t think so. Already built one. Regards Peter F1VKK
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi  Ian.
                                       
                                      I don't think so.
                                      Already built one.
                                       
                                      Regards Peter F1VKK
                                       
                                       
                                      On 02/03/2010 12:07:54, ijdownie@... wrote:
                                      > It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you
                                      have
                                      > something quite different in mind?
                                      > Ian
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Pete Goodmann
                                      After a very quick, cursory look, I think what I have in mind is significantly different and more versatile. I take a more in-depth look at PICASTAR and let
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        After a very quick, cursory look, I think what I have in mind is significantly different and more versatile.  I take a more in-depth look at PICASTAR and let you know.

                                         

                                        73,

                                        Pete, NI9N

                                        Lazy Dog Engineering LLC

                                        www.lazydogengineering.com

                                        www.garage-shoppe.com

                                         

                                      • genesysltduk
                                        ... And a softrock as a panadaptor for it is very useful :-) Duncan G4ELJ
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Johnson" <m1bcv@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi Ian.
                                          >
                                          > I don't think so.
                                          > Already built one.
                                          >
                                          > Regards Peter F1VKK
                                          >

                                          And a softrock as a panadaptor for it is very useful :-)

                                          Duncan
                                          G4ELJ
                                        • Lieuwe De Vries
                                          A similar project? http://home.kpn.nl/rw.engberts/sdr_kth_buyers.htm ________________________________ From: k5nwa To:
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            A similar project?


                                            From: k5nwa <k5nwa@...>
                                            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 7:09:04 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:

                                             

                                            There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                                            < http://www.qsl. net/k5bcq/ Kits/Kits. html >

                                            It works well and it's configurable.

                                            At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                            >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                                            >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                                            ><http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html>http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                                            >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                                            >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                                            >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                                            >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                                            >
                                            >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                                            >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                                            >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                                            >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                                            >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                                            >people have done that.
                                            >
                                            >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked( 80MHz) output up to
                                            >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                                            >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                                            >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                                            >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                                            >this stuff anyway.
                                            >
                                            >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                                            >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                                            >
                                            >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                                            >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                                            >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                                            >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@. ..> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                            > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                                            > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                                            > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                                            > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                                            > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                                            > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                                            > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                                            > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                            > >
                                            > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                                            > >
                                            > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                                            > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                                            > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                                            > >
                                            > > This is the first building block we need.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                                            > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                                            > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                                            > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                                            > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                                            > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                                            > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                                            > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                                            > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                                            > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                                            > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                                            > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 73,
                                            > > > Pete, NI9N
                                            > > > www.garage-shoppe. com
                                            > > > www.lazydogengineer ing.com
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            Cecil
                                            K5NWA
                                            www.softrockradio. org www.qrpradio. com

                                            "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."


                                          • Loftur Jónasson
                                            Hi all, Just to chime with my two cents :) ... The firmware developed for the Mobo 4.3 includes a rotary encoder enabled, variable speed VFO. The firmware,
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi all,

                                              Just to chime with my two cents :)

                                              > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                              VFO.
                                              > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                              > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by
                                              four
                                              > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual
                                              conversion
                                              > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is
                                              nothing
                                              > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go
                                              through
                                              > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX
                                              DDS's,
                                              > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                              >
                                              > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a
                                              "spinner".
                                              >

                                              The firmware developed for the Mobo 4.3 includes a rotary encoder enabled, variable speed VFO.  The firmware, while tailored towards the Softrock 6.3 / Mobo 4.3, can easily be adapted to any other platform, and all source code is free for use and rework, as long as it is not for commercial purposes.  What I'm alluding at, is that if anyone wants to make a standalone VFO project based on the Si570, then you are welcome to use the Mobo 4.3 firmware as a base.  It runs on any Atmel 8bit USB enabled Microcontroller (AT90USBxxx, ATmega32Ux..., virtually unchanged.  Only addition needed is a Si570 and a decent Rotary Encoder and a nice heavy VFO knob.

                                              http://groups.google.com/group/MOBOKITS (you need to be registered, but anyone is welcome)

                                              http://sites.google.com/site/lofturj/mobo4_3

                                              The SDR Widget project which has also been mentioned a few times here on the softrock40 list, will include the full Mobo 4.3 firmware functionality, in addition to being a high quality 192kb/s 24 bit audio card, eliminating the need for anything other than one USB connection between the SDR and the PC.  Who knows, it may also evolve into providing direct DSP audio processing, we'll see :))
                                              This project, while still in its infancy, already has a working USB composite device consisting of a set of DG8SAQ/Serial/HID/Audio devices (no small feat, singlehandedly by Alex, 9V1AL).  As this is a volunteer group effort by a number of dedicated radioamateurs, we expect to have a working configuration ready in a few months.  Ohh, and yes, it includes a VFO :))

                                              http:/groups.google.com/group/SDR-WIDGET

                                              73 de Loftur, ve/tf3lj

                                              2010/3/2 Lieuwe De Vries <lieuwe.devries@...>
                                               

                                              A similar project?


                                              From: k5nwa <k5nwa@...>
                                              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 7:09:04 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:

                                               

                                              There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                                              < http://www.qsl. net/k5bcq/ Kits/Kits. html >

                                              It works well and it's configurable.

                                              At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                              >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                                              >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                                              ><http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html>http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                                              >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                                              >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                                              >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                                              >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                                              >
                                              >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                                              >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                                              >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                                              >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                                              >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                                              >people have done that.
                                              >
                                              >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked( 80MHz) output up to
                                              >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                                              >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                                              >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                                              >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                                              >this stuff anyway.
                                              >
                                              >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                                              >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                                              >
                                              >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                                              >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                                              >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                                              >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@. ..> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                              > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                                              > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                                              > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                                              > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                                              > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                                              > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                                              > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                                              > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                              > >
                                              > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                                              > >
                                              > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                                              > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                                              > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                                              > >
                                              > > This is the first building block we need.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                                              > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                                              > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                                              > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                                              > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                                              > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                                              > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                                              > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                                              > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                                              > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                                              > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                                              > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > 73,
                                              > > > Pete, NI9N
                                              > > > www.garage-shoppe. com
                                              > > > www.lazydogengineer ing.com

                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              Cecil
                                              K5NWA
                                              www.softrockradio. org www.qrpradio. com

                                              "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."



                                            • Chris Albertson
                                              Maybe all that is required is a better knob. Software can connect the knob to any existing VFO. There are some very nice mechanical controls with computer
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
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                                                Maybe all that is required is a better knob. Software can connect the
                                                knob to any existing VFO. There are some very nice mechanical
                                                controls with computer interfaces

                                                http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate

                                                http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceNavigator-3D-Navigation-3DX-700029/dp/B000LB41BM/ref=pd_sim_e_3

                                                http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Contour Design/004970/

                                                Another general purpose controller that I think would work well for
                                                radio is this

                                                http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-Nano-KONTROL?sku=703401&ZYXSEM=0&src=3AGGWXX2




                                                On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:02 AM, drmail377 <drmail377@...> wrote:
                                                > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through

                                                --
                                                =====
                                                Chris Albertson
                                                Redondo Beach, California
                                              • Lee Boulineau
                                                I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS..... 73 de N4MVL Lee ... From: Loftur Jónasson Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
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                                                  I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS.....

                                                  73 de N4MVL Lee

                                                  --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:
                                                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 9:29 AM

                                                   

                                                  Hi all,

                                                  Just to chime with my two cents :)

                                                  > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
                                                  > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                                  > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
                                                  > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
                                                  > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
                                                  > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
                                                  > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
                                                  > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                  >
                                                  > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".

                                                  ___

                                                • drmail377
                                                  Hi Lee, Yes, I forgot about the DDSV4. I ve been in-touch with Kanga US (a Distributor) and the manufacturer, Dick at www.rmt-tech.com. The DDSV4 is a
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 15, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hi Lee,

                                                    Yes, I forgot about the DDSV4. I've been in-touch with Kanga US (a Distributor) and the manufacturer, Dick at www.rmt-tech.com. The DDSV4 is a "spinner" and can go through 160MHz. Pre-built around $120 USD. Not bad considering the VFO's are seemingly built by hand in batches (labor costs must be considered) on a demand basis. Dick has been very straightforward about availability. The Beauty of the DDSV4 is that in the spirit of Ham innovation, the source code and schematics are available and relatively unencumbered. Kudos to the DDSV4 project! There's a lot of old docs regarding the DDSV4 on distributor sites, go to Dick to get the latest. The DDS reference clock is now no longer +/-100ppm as in some old docs. Much better now. Looks like a winner.

                                                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Lee Boulineau <n4mvl@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS.....
                                                    >
                                                    > 73 de N4MVL Lee
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...>
                                                    > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:
                                                    > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 9:29 AM
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >  
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi all,
                                                    >
                                                    > Just to chime with my two cents :)
                                                    >
                                                    > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                                    > VFO.
                                                    >
                                                    > > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                                    >
                                                    > > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by
                                                    > four
                                                    >
                                                    > > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual
                                                    > conversion
                                                    >
                                                    > > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is
                                                    > nothing
                                                    >
                                                    > > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go
                                                    > through
                                                    >
                                                    > > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX
                                                    > DDS's,
                                                    >
                                                    > > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a
                                                    > "spinner".
                                                    >
                                                    > ___
                                                    >
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