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Re: [softrock40] An Idea, tell me what you think:

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  • Chris Albertson
    One of the building blocks needs to be an A/D converter. If not all you have is a higher priced SR40. I thought about building something like this too.
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 28, 2010
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      One of the building blocks needs to be an A/D converter. If not all
      you have is a higher priced SR40.

      I thought about building something like this too. Precision
      mechanical parts to allow cards to plug into a backplane and be
      secured with card guide is not easy to do. I figured I'd used an
      old 50-pin SCSI cable as the backplane. The cable is flexible so the
      mechanical parts do not need precision.

      How are you planning to handle the software? If you change of one
      "Lego" oscilator for a DDS chip then the software needs to change out
      too like Legos. Maybe use a method like GNU Radio where you have
      components and a Makefile.

      Where are you targeting cost/performance? I assume to fit between
      SR40 and HPSDR? I think there is a demand for that

      With the right software your Lego building blocks could also be put
      together into a signal generator or a spectrum analyzer. With these
      uses your system can see a wider market.

      Software will make or break the project. How will it work. Open
      Source? Based on dttsp?

      On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Pete Goodmann
      <pete@...> wrote:
      > Thanks, guy, that's good input.  I'd really like to do it if I can do
      > it for a reasonable price.  I think maybe I can.
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >



      --
      =====
      Chris Albertson
      Redondo Beach, California
    • drmail377
      There is a black hole in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual spinner knob that covers
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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        There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.

        Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".

        Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.

        This is the first building block we need.


        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
        >
        > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
        >
        > 73,
        > Pete, NI9N
        > www.garage-shoppe.com
        > www.lazydogengineering.com
        >
      • Mark J Dulcey
        ... The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ s Universal VFO Controller (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html ) which will operate
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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          On 3/1/2010 6:02 AM, drmail377 wrote:
          >
          >
          > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
          > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
          > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
          > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
          > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
          > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
          > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
          > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
          >
          > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
          >
          > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes
          > to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass
          > filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
          >
          > This is the first building block we need.

          The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ's Universal VFO Controller
          (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html )
          which will operate a variety of frequency generation modules (both DDS
          and Si570). But it's not open source, and it uses a two-knob tuning
          system (coarse and fine) with low-resolution mechanical encoders.

          This idea is actually pretty close to something I was planning to work
          on. I want single-knob capability using a higher-resolution optical
          encoder -- that would make it a premium priced design, a really nice
          optical encoder is a $50 part or more (examples: Digikey 102-1008-ND and
          102-1010-ND), though there is also a decent lower-resolution one in the
          $15-20 class (Digikey EM14A0D-C24-L064S-ND). I don't like mechanical
          encoders; they don't have enough resolution for a proper VFO feel, they
          wear out, and most of them have detents.

          I was originally planning to make it work with the DDS-60 from AmQRP
          (AD9851) and the new DDS-150 from PQRP (AD995x), but I recently found
          out about WA6UFQ's Si570 module in the same form factor so I'll add that
          as well. I like the idea of working with a separate frequency generation
          module so I can take advantage of the good RF layout design that others
          have done and not have to get personally involved in that, and
          separating the RF part of the design from the digital control part is
          good for noise minimization.

          I'm currently looking at using a PIC18F series part, perhaps one with
          USB capability so a computer interface could eventually be added, though
          I'd consider using a PIC24F if that doesn't turn out to be fast enough.
          (The PIC24F part would complicate the design a bit because it's a
          low-voltage part and most of the inexpensive surplus LCD modules are 5V
          parts; either the LCD selection would have to be limited or voltage
          translators would be needed.) I'd be programming in C, not assembler,
          which should speed the development process a little (please, no flame
          wars about the relative merits of computer languages - I've done a lot
          of them and know what works for me) and make it easier to shift to
          different PIC microcontrollers in the future (the C compiler and
          libraries hide most of the differences between the models). And yes, it
          will be 100% open source, hardware and software, though I will sell kits
          if there is enough interest.
        • john_tartar
          N3ZI s new 2010 DDS definitely has a spinner control, using a mechanical encoder. There s a youtube video of the tuning action.
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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            N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a mechanical encoder.   There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
            http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html

            But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports, you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping included, and yes, it works fine with them)

            I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc" that's not really part of a DDS.  But if you are talking about a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based on the DDS frequency.  There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that.  Other people have done that.

            It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked(80MHz) output up to 34MHz.  With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up through 15 meters.  If you really want high side on 10Meters then you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the 8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with this stuff anyway.

            If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.

            The code is written in "C" and is not released.   It would be far easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it would be to figure it out.  Writing code that works is one thing, writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.


            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@...> wrote:
            >
            > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
            >
            > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
            >
            > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
            >
            > This is the first building block we need.
            >
            >
            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
            > >
            > > 73,
            > > Pete, NI9N
            > > www.garage-shoppe.com
            > > www.lazydogengineering.com
            > >
            >
          • Peter
            This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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              This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

              To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

              Am I in the ballpark?

              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
              >
              > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
              >
              > 73,
              > Pete, NI9N
              > www.garage-shoppe.com
              > www.lazydogengineering.com
              >
            • Larry Acklin
              Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards public.
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards public.  Else you will end up with single source, and you want to encourage innovation.
                 
                I think the pricing is about right. 
                 
                73
                Larry
                KB3CUF

                On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter <pete@...> wrote:
                 

                This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

                To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

                Am I in the ballpark?



                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
                >
                > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                >
                > 73,
                > Pete, NI9N
                > www.garage-shoppe.com
                > www.lazydogengineering.com
                >


              • Russ Hines
                Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to do with KB9YIG s SoftRock radios? 73, Russ WB8ZCC
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                  Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to do with KB9YIG's SoftRock radios?

                  73,
                  Russ
                  WB8ZCC




                  Peter wrote:
                   

                  This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.

                  To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.

                  Am I in the ballpark?

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > Pete, NI9N
                  > www.garage-shoppe. com
                  > www.lazydogengineer ing.com
                  >



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                • k5nwa
                  There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip; It works well and it s configurable.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                    There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                    < http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Kits/Kits.html >

                    It works well and it's configurable.

                    At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:


                    >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                    >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                    ><http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html>http://www.pongrance.com/super-dds.html
                    >
                    >
                    >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                    >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                    >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                    >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                    >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                    >
                    >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                    >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                    >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                    >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                    >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                    >people have done that.
                    >
                    >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked(80MHz) output up to
                    >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                    >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                    >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                    >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                    >this stuff anyway.
                    >
                    >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                    >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                    >
                    >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                    >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                    >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                    >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                    >
                    >
                    >--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                    > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                    > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                    > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                    > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                    > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                    > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                    > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                    > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                    > >
                    > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                    > >
                    > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                    > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                    > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                    > >
                    > > This is the first building block we need.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                    > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                    > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                    > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                    > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                    > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                    > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                    > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                    > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                    > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                    > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                    > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                    > > >
                    > > > 73,
                    > > > Pete, NI9N
                    > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                    > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    Cecil
                    K5NWA
                    www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                    "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                  • Peter
                    Larry, I agree that the idea is to foster innovation. I would want people to try designing modules themselves. Thank you for your input on the pricing, and
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                      Larry, I agree that the idea is to foster innovation. I would want people to try designing modules themselves. Thank you for your input on the pricing, and for your suggestion.

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Larry Acklin <acklin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Decide on a standard of signal and I/O levels, somewhat standard in/out
                      > (which side of the building block does what) etc. and make these standards
                      > public. Else you will end up with single source, and you want to encourage
                      > innovation.
                      >
                      > I think the pricing is about right.
                      >
                      > 73
                      > Larry
                      > KB3CUF
                      >
                      > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter <pete@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some analysis
                      > > behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic, crystal-controlled SDR
                      > > (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could be sold, as assembled
                      > > modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards with bill of materials and
                      > > assembly notes online, $50.
                      > >
                      > > To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and replace
                      > > the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband filter. Cost:
                      > > about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the boards.
                      > >
                      > > Am I in the ballpark?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter"
                      > > <pete@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What
                      > > I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as
                      > > well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards,
                      > > interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards,
                      > > interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably
                      > > would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly,
                      > > and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would
                      > > be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large,
                      > > expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with
                      > > different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be
                      > > worthwhile?
                      > > >
                      > > > 73,
                      > > > Pete, NI9N
                      > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                      > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • k5nwa
                      ... I don t know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of small boards to build conventional receivers and they re fairly popular. So the concept is
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                        4321`At 11:38 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
                        >This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                        >analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                        >crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio)
                        >could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits,
                        >$65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                        >
                        >To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                        >replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and
                        >multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20
                        >for just the boards.
                        >
                        >Am I in the ballpark?

                        I don't know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of
                        small boards to build conventional receivers and they're fairly
                        popular. So the concept is good, but the price may be an issue, a
                        small SoftRock sells for $13 from Tony.

                        < http://partsandkits.com/rftoolkits.php >

                        Most of the DDS chips that are reasonably inexpensive have a lot of
                        spur issues that is why the SI570 is in use, another plus is that the
                        output is already in digital form. when you can see the spectrum the
                        spurs is a big turnoff.




                        Cecil
                        K5NWA
                        www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                        "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                      • Peter
                        Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning about and experimentation with SDRs. That s why Tony started the Softrock project, as I
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
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                          Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes.

                          I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.

                          73,
                          Pete, NI9N
                          www.garage-shoppe.com
                          www.lazydogengineering.com
                          Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Russ Hines <russ@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Peter, what you post is all very interesting, but what does this have to
                          > do with KB9YIG's SoftRock radios?
                          >
                          > 73,
                          > Russ
                          > WB8ZCC
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Peter wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                          > > analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                          > > crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio) could
                          > > be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits, $65. As boards
                          > > with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                          > >
                          > > To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                          > > replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and multiband
                          > > filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20 for just the
                          > > boards.
                          > >
                          > > Am I in the ballpark?
                          > >
                          > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                          > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter" <pete@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits?
                          > > What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB
                          > > connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                          > > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                          > > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                          > > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount
                          > > parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could
                          > > buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try
                          > > out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive
                          > > project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with
                          > > different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like
                          > > this be worthwhile?
                          > > >
                          > > > 73,
                          > > > Pete, NI9N
                          > > > www.garage-shoppe.com
                          > > > www.lazydogengineering.com
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > __________ NOD32 4903 (20100228) Information __________
                          > >
                          > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                          > > http://www.eset.com
                          >
                        • Peter
                          Thanks for your input, Cecil. I m not trying to compete with Tony, and at his prices I don t think anyone could. I see this concept as somewhat complimentary
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks for your input, Cecil. I'm not trying to compete with Tony, and at his prices I don't think anyone could. I see this concept as somewhat complimentary to what Tony's doing. I'll check out Diz's website. The URL sounds a lot like Dan's Small Parts and Kits. Same guy?

                            73,
                            Pete, NI9N
                            www.lazydogengineering.com
                            www.garage-shoppe.com
                            Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > 4321`At 11:38 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
                            > >This is all very approximate and subject to change, but with some
                            > >analysis behind it. I think a set of modules to build a basic,
                            > >crystal-controlled SDR (motherboard, filter, qsd, LO, and audio)
                            > >could be sold, as assembled modules, for about $105. As kits,
                            > >$65. As boards with bill of materials and assembly notes online, $50.
                            > >
                            > >To upgrade to a multiband radio, add a microcontroller module, and
                            > >replace the oscillator and single-band filter with a DDS and
                            > >multiband filter. Cost: about $100 assembled, $60 as kits, and $20
                            > >for just the boards.
                            > >
                            > >Am I in the ballpark?
                            >
                            > I don't know if you are familiar with Diz but he offers a set of
                            > small boards to build conventional receivers and they're fairly
                            > popular. So the concept is good, but the price may be an issue, a
                            > small SoftRock sells for $13 from Tony.
                            >
                            > < http://partsandkits.com/rftoolkits.php >
                            >
                            > Most of the DDS chips that are reasonably inexpensive have a lot of
                            > spur issues that is why the SI570 is in use, another plus is that the
                            > output is already in digital form. when you can see the spectrum the
                            > spurs is a big turnoff.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Cecil
                            > K5NWA
                            > www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com
                            >
                            > "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                            >
                          • Dave - WB6DHW
                            Mark: I make a couple of boards you might be interested in. My 995x board will accept an AD9951, AD9952, AD9953, or AD9954. My 9912 board will take an AD9912.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Mark:
                              I make a couple of boards you might be interested in.
                              My 995x board will accept an AD9951, AD9952, AD9953, or AD9954. My 9912
                              board will take an AD9912. Both have a PIC18F2550 with all unused I/O
                              pins brought out to headers. With a bootloader burned into the chip, all
                              firmware updates can be done over the USB bus.
                              Buck Ewing has written firmware to make the 995x into a stand alone
                              generator. Since I still haven't had a chance(I have the programs) to
                              test it out, I have not pushed it yet. Buck is also working on similar
                              firmware for the 9912 board. Both use a rotary encoder for tuning. If
                              you are interested, I can send you a copy of the software.

                              Dave - WB6DHW
                              <http://wb6dhw.com>

                              Mark J Dulcey wrote:
                              > On 3/1/2010 6:02 AM, drmail377 wrote:
                              >
                              >> There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
                              >> What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                              >> "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
                              >> PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
                              >> superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
                              >> like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
                              >> 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
                              >> expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                              >>
                              >> Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                              >>
                              >> Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one comes
                              >> to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch band-pass
                              >> filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                              >>
                              >> This is the first building block we need.
                              >>
                              >
                              > The closest thing I know about is WA6UFQ's Universal VFO Controller
                              > (http://home.roadrunner.com/~wa6ufq//universal_vfo_controller.html )
                              > which will operate a variety of frequency generation modules (both DDS
                              > and Si570). But it's not open source, and it uses a two-knob tuning
                              > system (coarse and fine) with low-resolution mechanical encoders.
                              >
                              > This idea is actually pretty close to something I was planning to work
                              > on. I want single-knob capability using a higher-resolution optical
                              > encoder -- that would make it a premium priced design, a really nice
                              > optical encoder is a $50 part or more (examples: Digikey 102-1008-ND and
                              > 102-1010-ND), though there is also a decent lower-resolution one in the
                              > $15-20 class (Digikey EM14A0D-C24-L064S-ND). I don't like mechanical
                              > encoders; they don't have enough resolution for a proper VFO feel, they
                              > wear out, and most of them have detents.
                              >
                              > I was originally planning to make it work with the DDS-60 from AmQRP
                              > (AD9851) and the new DDS-150 from PQRP (AD995x), but I recently found
                              > out about WA6UFQ's Si570 module in the same form factor so I'll add that
                              > as well. I like the idea of working with a separate frequency generation
                              > module so I can take advantage of the good RF layout design that others
                              > have done and not have to get personally involved in that, and
                              > separating the RF part of the design from the digital control part is
                              > good for noise minimization.
                              >
                              > I'm currently looking at using a PIC18F series part, perhaps one with
                              > USB capability so a computer interface could eventually be added, though
                              > I'd consider using a PIC24F if that doesn't turn out to be fast enough.
                              > (The PIC24F part would complicate the design a bit because it's a
                              > low-voltage part and most of the inexpensive surplus LCD modules are 5V
                              > parts; either the LCD selection would have to be limited or voltage
                              > translators would be needed.) I'd be programming in C, not assembler,
                              > which should speed the development process a little (please, no flame
                              > wars about the relative merits of computer languages - I've done a lot
                              > of them and know what works for me) and make it easier to shift to
                              > different PIC microcontrollers in the future (the C compiler and
                              > libraries hide most of the differences between the models). And yes, it
                              > will be 100% open source, hardware and software, though I will sell kits
                              > if there is enough interest.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • k5nwa
                              ... There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement the mixer, it
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At 12:43 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                >Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning
                                >about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the
                                >Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this
                                >group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't
                                >want to step on anyone's toes.
                                >
                                >I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and
                                >USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD
                                >configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to
                                >try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole
                                >radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with
                                >this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.
                                >
                                >73,
                                >Pete, NI9N
                                >www.garage-shoppe.com
                                >www.lazydogengineering.com
                                >Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                                There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with
                                the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement
                                the mixer, it works at much higher frequencies than the standard
                                SoftRock mixer, I'm getting good results at 2M at present and the
                                scheme could work at much higher frequencies (GHz), I'm not finished
                                but I already have a scheme that might work even better. Having
                                modules would speed the development up versus chopping up SoftRocks.

                                I'm not sure how many in this group are actively working on
                                improvements , I would guess that most are passengers for the ride
                                but having the modules available might make more participate in
                                trying out new things, the more the merrier.



                                Cecil
                                K5NWA
                                www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                                "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                              • Larry Acklin
                                I second that emotion. a Lego approach would let one concentrate on the area of innovation, letting the other modules work as appliances. How many of us
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I second that emotion.
                                   
                                  a "Lego" approach would let one concentrate on the area of innovation, letting the other modules work as appliances.  How many of us care about the PC we design great programs for?
                                   
                                  Well, you know what I mean- I don't hand build a speaker to listen to music.
                                   
                                  Larry
                                   


                                   
                                  On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:28 PM, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  At 12:43 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                  >Directly, nothing. Indirectly, the idea is to facilitate learning
                                  >about and experimentation with SDRs. That's why Tony started the
                                  >Softrock project, as I understand it, and it seems to be what this
                                  >group is about. I hope no one objects, because I certainly don't
                                  >want to step on anyone's toes.
                                  >
                                  >I've been reading a lot of discussion about things like audio and
                                  >USB isolation, different synthesizer configurations, different QSD
                                  >configurations, etc. It seems like it would be nice to be able to
                                  >try out a different QSD, let's say, without building a whole
                                  >radio. That's what I'd like to facilitate. Seems consistent with
                                  >this group, but if the group says otherwise, I'll drop the subject.
                                  >
                                  >73,
                                  >Pete, NI9N
                                  >www.garage-shoppe.com
                                  >www.lazydogengineering.com
                                  >Inconveniently located 110 km. from Radioville

                                  There are many ways to skin the cat, I have been experimenting with
                                  the detector lately and have found some interesting ways to implement
                                  the mixer, it works at much higher frequencies than the standard
                                  SoftRock mixer, I'm getting good results at 2M at present and the
                                  scheme could work at much higher frequencies (GHz), I'm not finished
                                  but I already have a scheme that might work even better. Having
                                  modules would speed the development up versus chopping up SoftRocks.

                                  I'm not sure how many in this group are actively working on
                                  improvements , I would guess that most are passengers for the ride
                                  but having the modules available might make more participate in
                                  trying out new things, the more the merrier.


                                  Cecil
                                  K5NWA
                                  www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                                  "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."


                                • Rob
                                  Hi Pete, Relating that to the Softrock... Frankly you would be reinventing the wheel. IMO there wouldn t be demand to make money from it. A Softrock backplane
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 1, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Pete,

                                    Relating that to the Softrock... Frankly you would be reinventing the wheel. IMO there wouldn't be demand to make money from it. A Softrock backplane has been discussed many times.

                                    If you like to form a group to redesign the same technology as the SR6.3+MoBo V4.3 combination, good luck, see you in 2 years!

                                    Personally I'd like to see a backplane version of the technology as you describe, but it has to have the support of all parties. Perhaps the time for it will be after the SDR-Widget project is mature?

                                    Cheers,
                                    Rob
                                    (M0RZF)

                                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pete@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF, and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface, etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                  • ijdownie@optusnet.com.au
                                    It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you have something quite different in mind? Ian
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you have something quite different in mind?

                                      Ian

                                    • Peter Johnson
                                      Hi Ian. I don t think so. Already built one. Regards Peter F1VKK
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi  Ian.
                                         
                                        I don't think so.
                                        Already built one.
                                         
                                        Regards Peter F1VKK
                                         
                                         
                                        On 02/03/2010 12:07:54, ijdownie@... wrote:
                                        > It sounds to me like you are re inventing a PICASTAR, or do you
                                        have
                                        > something quite different in mind?
                                        > Ian
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Pete Goodmann
                                        After a very quick, cursory look, I think what I have in mind is significantly different and more versatile. I take a more in-depth look at PICASTAR and let
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          After a very quick, cursory look, I think what I have in mind is significantly different and more versatile.  I take a more in-depth look at PICASTAR and let you know.

                                           

                                          73,

                                          Pete, NI9N

                                          Lazy Dog Engineering LLC

                                          www.lazydogengineering.com

                                          www.garage-shoppe.com

                                           

                                        • genesysltduk
                                          ... And a softrock as a panadaptor for it is very useful :-) Duncan G4ELJ
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Johnson" <m1bcv@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi Ian.
                                            >
                                            > I don't think so.
                                            > Already built one.
                                            >
                                            > Regards Peter F1VKK
                                            >

                                            And a softrock as a panadaptor for it is very useful :-)

                                            Duncan
                                            G4ELJ
                                          • Lieuwe De Vries
                                            A similar project? http://home.kpn.nl/rw.engberts/sdr_kth_buyers.htm ________________________________ From: k5nwa To:
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              A similar project?


                                              From: k5nwa <k5nwa@...>
                                              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 7:09:04 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:

                                               

                                              There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                                              < http://www.qsl. net/k5bcq/ Kits/Kits. html >

                                              It works well and it's configurable.

                                              At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                              >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                                              >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                                              ><http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html>http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                                              >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                                              >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                                              >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                                              >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                                              >
                                              >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                                              >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                                              >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                                              >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                                              >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                                              >people have done that.
                                              >
                                              >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked( 80MHz) output up to
                                              >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                                              >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                                              >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                                              >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                                              >this stuff anyway.
                                              >
                                              >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                                              >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                                              >
                                              >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                                              >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                                              >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                                              >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@. ..> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                              > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                                              > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                                              > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                                              > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                                              > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                                              > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                                              > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                                              > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                              > >
                                              > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                                              > >
                                              > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                                              > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                                              > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                                              > >
                                              > > This is the first building block we need.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                                              > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                                              > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                                              > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                                              > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                                              > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                                              > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                                              > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                                              > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                                              > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                                              > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                                              > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > 73,
                                              > > > Pete, NI9N
                                              > > > www.garage-shoppe. com
                                              > > > www.lazydogengineer ing.com
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              Cecil
                                              K5NWA
                                              www.softrockradio. org www.qrpradio. com

                                              "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."


                                            • Loftur Jónasson
                                              Hi all, Just to chime with my two cents :) ... The firmware developed for the Mobo 4.3 includes a rotary encoder enabled, variable speed VFO. The firmware,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi all,

                                                Just to chime with my two cents :)

                                                > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                                VFO.
                                                > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                                > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by
                                                four
                                                > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual
                                                conversion
                                                > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is
                                                nothing
                                                > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go
                                                through
                                                > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX
                                                DDS's,
                                                > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                >
                                                > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a
                                                "spinner".
                                                >

                                                The firmware developed for the Mobo 4.3 includes a rotary encoder enabled, variable speed VFO.  The firmware, while tailored towards the Softrock 6.3 / Mobo 4.3, can easily be adapted to any other platform, and all source code is free for use and rework, as long as it is not for commercial purposes.  What I'm alluding at, is that if anyone wants to make a standalone VFO project based on the Si570, then you are welcome to use the Mobo 4.3 firmware as a base.  It runs on any Atmel 8bit USB enabled Microcontroller (AT90USBxxx, ATmega32Ux..., virtually unchanged.  Only addition needed is a Si570 and a decent Rotary Encoder and a nice heavy VFO knob.

                                                http://groups.google.com/group/MOBOKITS (you need to be registered, but anyone is welcome)

                                                http://sites.google.com/site/lofturj/mobo4_3

                                                The SDR Widget project which has also been mentioned a few times here on the softrock40 list, will include the full Mobo 4.3 firmware functionality, in addition to being a high quality 192kb/s 24 bit audio card, eliminating the need for anything other than one USB connection between the SDR and the PC.  Who knows, it may also evolve into providing direct DSP audio processing, we'll see :))
                                                This project, while still in its infancy, already has a working USB composite device consisting of a set of DG8SAQ/Serial/HID/Audio devices (no small feat, singlehandedly by Alex, 9V1AL).  As this is a volunteer group effort by a number of dedicated radioamateurs, we expect to have a working configuration ready in a few months.  Ohh, and yes, it includes a VFO :))

                                                http:/groups.google.com/group/SDR-WIDGET

                                                73 de Loftur, ve/tf3lj

                                                2010/3/2 Lieuwe De Vries <lieuwe.devries@...>
                                                 

                                                A similar project?


                                                From: k5nwa <k5nwa@...>
                                                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 7:09:04 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:

                                                 

                                                There is already a kit available that uses a knob to control the Si570 chip;
                                                < http://www.qsl. net/k5bcq/ Kits/Kits. html >

                                                It works well and it's configurable.

                                                At 11:36 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:

                                                >N3ZI's new 2010 DDS definitely has a "spinner" control, using a
                                                >mechanical encoder. There's a youtube video of the tuning action.
                                                ><http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html>http://www.pongranc e.com/super- dds.html
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >But even if you don't like mechanical encoders it is compatible with
                                                >Optical encoders, and has several tuning parameters that can be
                                                >tweaked via the serial port. (And don't flame me about serial ports,
                                                >you can buy a USB to serial port converter on ebay for $2, shipping
                                                >included, and yes, it works fine with them)
                                                >
                                                >I'm not sure what you mean by "switch band-pass filters/sidebands
                                                >etc" that's not really part of a DDS. But if you are talking about
                                                >a function that has outputs to select bands, sidebands, etc., based
                                                >on the DDS frequency. There's no spare I/O anyway, but you could
                                                >easily add a PIC attached to the serial port that does that. Other
                                                >people have done that.
                                                >
                                                >It uses a AD9834, slightly overclocked( 80MHz) output up to
                                                >34MHz. With an IF in the ~10MHz range you can get high side up
                                                >through 15 meters. If you really want high side on 10Meters then
                                                >you are out of luck, but if you can design a filter to knock out the
                                                >8MHz image in this case then you shouldn't be fooling around with
                                                >this stuff anyway.
                                                >
                                                >If you need 4x and sqaure waves you shouldn't be using a Analog DDS
                                                >anyway, use a Si570, much cheper and wider range.
                                                >
                                                >The code is written in "C" and is not released. It would be far
                                                >easier for a qualified individual to write it from scratch than it
                                                >would be to figure it out. Writing code that works is one thing,
                                                >writing code so that someone else can understand it is much more complex.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@. ..> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                                > VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an
                                                > actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for
                                                > divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz
                                                > for dual conversion! superhe ts with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz
                                                > second IF. There is nothing like this out there. We have
                                                > ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through 34MHz or 21MHz with
                                                > pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's, expensive and I
                                                > don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                > >
                                                > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".
                                                > >
                                                > > Plus, every time I run across a DDS knob VFO I can buy (only one
                                                > comes to mind) there is no open firmware source so I can switch
                                                > band-pass filters/sidebands etc. Locked-up tight.
                                                > >
                                                > > This is the first building block we need.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Peter" pete@ wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Would there be demand for a small line of SDR building-block
                                                > kits? What I'm thinking of is perhaps a motherboard with RF, IF,
                                                > and USB connectors as well as a power supply, and headers to accept
                                                > interchangeable filter boards, interchangeable QSD or I/Q mixer
                                                > boards, interchangeable LO boards, interchangeable audio, USB
                                                > isolator, perhaps a digitizer, etc. Probably would use surface
                                                > mount parts throughout, but would allow staged assembly, and a
                                                > newbie could buy some blocks assembled and others as kits, and
                                                > would be able to try out surface mount techniques without risking a
                                                > large, expensive project. It would also allow for low-cost
                                                > experimentation with different approches to LO, QSD, interface,
                                                > etc. Would something like this be worthwhile?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > 73,
                                                > > > Pete, NI9N
                                                > > > www.garage-shoppe. com
                                                > > > www.lazydogengineer ing.com

                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >

                                                Cecil
                                                K5NWA
                                                www.softrockradio. org www.qrpradio. com

                                                "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."



                                              • Chris Albertson
                                                Maybe all that is required is a better knob. Software can connect the knob to any existing VFO. There are some very nice mechanical controls with computer
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
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                                                  Maybe all that is required is a better knob. Software can connect the
                                                  knob to any existing VFO. There are some very nice mechanical
                                                  controls with computer interfaces

                                                  http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate

                                                  http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceNavigator-3D-Navigation-3DX-700029/dp/B000LB41BM/ref=pd_sim_e_3

                                                  http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Contour Design/004970/

                                                  Another general purpose controller that I think would work well for
                                                  radio is this

                                                  http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-Nano-KONTROL?sku=703401&ZYXSEM=0&src=3AGGWXX2




                                                  On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:02 AM, drmail377 <drmail377@...> wrote:
                                                  > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO. What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through

                                                  --
                                                  =====
                                                  Chris Albertson
                                                  Redondo Beach, California
                                                • Lee Boulineau
                                                  I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS..... 73 de N4MVL Lee ... From: Loftur Jónasson Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 2, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS.....

                                                    73 de N4MVL Lee

                                                    --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:
                                                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 9:29 AM

                                                     

                                                    Hi all,

                                                    Just to chime with my two cents :)

                                                    > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the VFO.
                                                    > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                                    > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by four
                                                    > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual conversion
                                                    > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is nothing
                                                    > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go through
                                                    > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX DDS's,
                                                    > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a "spinner".

                                                    ___

                                                  • drmail377
                                                    Hi Lee, Yes, I forgot about the DDSV4. I ve been in-touch with Kanga US (a Distributor) and the manufacturer, Dick at www.rmt-tech.com. The DDSV4 is a
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 15, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi Lee,

                                                      Yes, I forgot about the DDSV4. I've been in-touch with Kanga US (a Distributor) and the manufacturer, Dick at www.rmt-tech.com. The DDSV4 is a "spinner" and can go through 160MHz. Pre-built around $120 USD. Not bad considering the VFO's are seemingly built by hand in batches (labor costs must be considered) on a demand basis. Dick has been very straightforward about availability. The Beauty of the DDSV4 is that in the spirit of Ham innovation, the source code and schematics are available and relatively unencumbered. Kudos to the DDSV4 project! There's a lot of old docs regarding the DDSV4 on distributor sites, go to Dick to get the latest. The DDS reference clock is now no longer +/-100ppm as in some old docs. Much better now. Looks like a winner.

                                                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Lee Boulineau <n4mvl@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I think Kanga US has a 1-100 Mhz DDS.....
                                                      >
                                                      > 73 de N4MVL Lee
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > From: Loftur Jónasson <lofturj@...>
                                                      > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: An Idea, tell me what you think:
                                                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 9:29 AM
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >  
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi all,
                                                      >
                                                      > Just to chime with my two cents :)
                                                      >
                                                      > > There is a "black hole" in the ham kit/product market it is the
                                                      > VFO.
                                                      >
                                                      > > What is needed is a VFO kit (DDS or Si570-based) with an actual
                                                      >
                                                      > > "spinner" knob that covers near DC through 120 MHz (for divide by
                                                      > four
                                                      >
                                                      > > PC-based SDR's) or at least near DC through 75MHz for dual
                                                      > conversion
                                                      >
                                                      > > superhets with 45MHz first IF and 455kHz second IF. There is
                                                      > nothing
                                                      >
                                                      > > like this out there. We have ADI9834/5-based knob VFO's that go
                                                      > through
                                                      >
                                                      > > 34MHz or 21MHz with pretty lousy SFDR, then there are the AD99XX
                                                      > DDS's,
                                                      >
                                                      > > expensive and I don't know of one with a tuning knob.
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > Yes I know about KB5CQ's Si570 tuner/display, it is not a
                                                      > "spinner".
                                                      >
                                                      > ___
                                                      >
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