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V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

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  • w4npx_2
    Finished the LO stage and the Current Tests were OK. Did the Si570 Test (Courtesy of DG8SAQ)with several errors) Si570_Test.exe gave me as following errors:
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 1, 2010
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      Finished the LO stage and the Current Tests were OK.

      Did the Si570 Test (Courtesy of DG8SAQ)with several errors)

      Si570_Test.exe gave me as following errors:

      Max Power shown in instructions is 100, actual readout is "10"
      (probably not of any importance)

      Test USB button:

      frequency = 28.1000008168402 mhz. This agrees with start frequency in Freds CFGSR program but is a far cry from the 56.335082145542 mhz called for in the DG8SAQ program.

      In the Si570 Test program, I then set frequency of 14.100 and set freq by registers. Ran another Test USB Button and it correctly showed 14.100 where it had previously shown 28.1000008168402 mhz

      Next ran the LO Output Receiver Test with Rocky:

      With Rocky set to Use Si570 USB, 3525000 hz and Single Band, Signal on Tranceiver using cw filter peaked at 14.108.38 mhz rather than 14.100.

      With Rocky re set to 3530000 signal on Tranceiver peaked at 14.128.41 mhz, rather than at 14.120

      LO Output (Scope/Freq Counter) test:

      While I never bother with the freq counter or scope, I did reset Rocky to a center frequency of 7.046 mhz and got an output of 28.200.67 mhz rather than 28.184 mhz. I note that using Freds CFG program it shows a startup frequency of 28.200.00 mhz

      Looks like at 3.525 mhz x 4 I have an 8Khz error and at 7.046 I have a 16khz error.

      Any suggestions or explanations??

      Probably not connected or a problem but the oscillator did not come on right away until I attached and and removed the makeshift antenna connections several times and then the Oscilltor came on with a 10 db over nine signal on my ICOM receiver.

      Note that PE0FKO-USB Driver 0.1.12.2.zip was downloaded and used.

      Please note that Si570 AVR Firmware v 14 is in the system from prior use with TXRX 6.3 but was not used when USB for V.9 was loaded.

      Also note that with USB hooked to computer and V 9 board powered, CFGSR 1.3 shows USB AVR Si570 connected V 15.12. However on the USB tab the "individual boxes" for Manufacturer, Product and Serial Number are blank (again probably of no importance) although there is information filled in in the larger boxes with one listing there.

      Maybe much ado about nothing, but strange that my frequencies are off and would appreciate any suggestions.

      Thanks in Advance

      73,

      Bob W4NPX
    • g8voip
      Hi Bob, There are just too many things to try and fully answer in one go, but I would suggest if you have not already downloaded and read the Firmware Users
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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        Hi Bob,

        There are just too many things to try and fully answer in one go, but I would suggest if you have not already downloaded and read the 'Firmware Users Guide', do so and hopefully you should find answers to most of your queries.

        Note: currently the user guide is for Fred PE0FKO's v15.11 AVR firmware, but most is common for v15.12 as well, and should not be too difficult to figure out.

        http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/

        I am working on a supplement covering v15.12 and using the CFGSR program, but there is an updated version of CFGSR in the pipeline, so waiting to see what is needed for that.

        It is unfortunate that the build notes still refer to the DG8SAQ test program, things have moved on a lot from there and the results may no longer be valid, as that was only applicable to the QRP2000 groups v1.4 AVR firmware. This has been a constant source of confusion in the past few months.

        Running the 'CFGSR' program, and checking the device is recognised, i.e. can be 'opened', and looking at the 'Test' tab is sufficient to prove correct USB operation and communication with the Si570 chip.

        Originally the Si570 ran at the device default start up frequency 56.200MHz, however with the current AVR firmware, it will run at the default value set up, 28.200MHz.

        It is necessary to carry out the calibration process for the Si570 before trying to accurately measure any frequency, that accounts for the offset you are seeing, see the user guide for details.

        With the current AVR firmware, leave all of the SDR programs set for the default Si570 clock frequency of 114.285MHz and only use the firmware calibration. That is automatically applied when running any SDR program, and removes the need to calibration each program separately. If you do not do that, you will end up with confusion as both the firmware and SDR program will apply their own calibrations, and you will never correct any error.

        The oscillator will be running all the time, but you get more signal radiation via the aerial lead when its connected.

        The current version of the USB driver works with the original v1.4 AVR firmware as well.

        In CFGSR, if you click on the device listed in the main box, the other information boxes will be updated.

        Hope that has pointed you in the right direction,

        73, Bob G8VOI
      • R R Robson
        Bob: I have put a first attemptr at updating the V9.0 pages to take out the old SI570 stuff and add in the CFGR/SDRDLL stuff. Not having had the depthe of
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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          Bob:
           
          I have put a first attemptr at updating the V9.0 pages to take out the old SI570 stuff and add in the CFGR/SDRDLL stuff.  Not having had the depthe of experience in that which you have, I was wondering if you might take a look at my stuff and tell me whether I am on track or not.

          tx es 73 de robby wb5rvz
          What happens in the shack
          Stays in the shack!
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: g8voip
          Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:09 AM
          Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

           

          Hi Bob,

          There are just too many things to try and fully answer in one go, but I would suggest if you have not already downloaded and read the 'Firmware Users Guide', do so and hopefully you should find answers to most of your queries.

          Note: currently the user guide is for Fred PE0FKO's v15.11 AVR firmware, but most is common for v15.12 as well, and should not be too difficult to figure out.

          http://home. ict.nl/~fredkrom /pe0fko/g8voi/

          I am working on a supplement covering v15.12 and using the CFGSR program, but there is an updated version of CFGSR in the pipeline, so waiting to see what is needed for that.

          It is unfortunate that the build notes still refer to the DG8SAQ test program, things have moved on a lot from there and the results may no longer be valid, as that was only applicable to the QRP2000 groups v1.4 AVR firmware. This has been a constant source of confusion in the past few months.

          Running the 'CFGSR' program, and checking the device is recognised, i.e. can be 'opened', and looking at the 'Test' tab is sufficient to prove correct USB operation and communication with the Si570 chip.

          Originally the Si570 ran at the device default start up frequency 56.200MHz, however with the current AVR firmware, it will run at the default value set up, 28.200MHz.

          It is necessary to carry out the calibration process for the Si570 before trying to accurately measure any frequency, that accounts for the offset you are seeing, see the user guide for details.

          With the current AVR firmware, leave all of the SDR programs set for the default Si570 clock frequency of 114.285MHz and only use the firmware calibration. That is automatically applied when running any SDR program, and removes the need to calibration each program separately. If you do not do that, you will end up with confusion as both the firmware and SDR program will apply their own calibrations, and you will never correct any error.

          The oscillator will be running all the time, but you get more signal radiation via the aerial lead when its connected.

          The current version of the USB driver works with the original v1.4 AVR firmware as well.

          In CFGSR, if you click on the device listed in the main box, the other information boxes will be updated.

          Hope that has pointed you in the right direction,

          73, Bob G8VOI

        • g8voip
          Hi Robby, Thanks for making those changes, hopefully it will stop some of the confusion there has been in the past few months. I was intending to finish off
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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            Hi Robby,

            Thanks for making those changes, hopefully it will stop some of the confusion there has been in the past few months.

            I was intending to finish off the 'User Guide' for v15.12 and CFGSR over the festive period, but I have been busy doing some testing on an updated version of CFGSR, so holding off with completing that document until things are finalised, as there will need to be some more updates. No point in doing it twice.

            There are also a couple of related things that I will add some notes for:

            Installing the correct USB driver, as this seems to be a recurring problem from some of the postings on the forum.

            A simple set of tests for initial checks of the USB interface and Si570 control, making use of the CFGSR program.

            73, HNY, Bob G8VOI
          • Alan
            ... From: R R Robson Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test ... http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/RX_V9_0/02_usb.htm
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "R R Robson"
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test


              > I was wondering if you might take a look at my stuff and tell me whether I
              > am on track or not.
              http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/RX_V9_0/02_usb.htm
              http://www.wb5rvz.com/sdr/RX_V9_0/03_lo.htm


              The thing we need is for Fred to make his page so that the latest version of
              his work is easily accessed. When it is updated Robby's links will be
              outdated, probably dead.
              The links need to be at the top of Fred's page so just a link to the page is
              needed.

              73 Alan G4ZFQ
            • R R Robson
              Thanks, Bob. I am assuming that you found my materials to be acceptable and correct. HNY to you, too. tx es 73 de robby wb5rvz What happens in the shack Stays
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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                Thanks, Bob.  I am assuming that you found my materials to be acceptable and correct.
                 
                HNY to you, too.

                tx es 73 de robby wb5rvz
                What happens in the shack
                Stays in the shack!
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: g8voip
                Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:47 PM
                Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                 


                Hi Robby,

                Thanks for making those changes, hopefully it will stop some of the confusion there has been in the past few months.

                I was intending to finish off the 'User Guide' for v15.12 and CFGSR over the festive period, but I have been busy doing some testing on an updated version of CFGSR, so holding off with completing that document until things are finalised, as there will need to be some more updates. No point in doing it twice.

                There are also a couple of related things that I will add some notes for:

                Installing the correct USB driver, as this seems to be a recurring problem from some of the postings on the forum.

                A simple set of tests for initial checks of the USB interface and Si570 control, making use of the CFGSR program.

                73, HNY, Bob G8VOI

              • g8voip
                Hi Alan, Sorry, I am not sure I understand your comments. All that is necessary is to have links to four of Fred s pages, and those give public access to the
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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                  Hi Alan,

                  Sorry, I am not sure I understand your comments.

                  All that is necessary is to have links to four of Fred's pages, and those give public access to the latest released versions of all of his work:

                  For Si570 firmware:

                  http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/SR-V9-Si570/

                  For Winrad DLL file:

                  http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/ExtIO_Si570/

                  For CFGSR:

                  http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/CFGSR/

                  For G8VOI documentation:

                  http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/

                  Whilst the content of those pages gets updated, the basic link remains the same. Ok, you have to scroll down to the appropriate section for the actual downloads, but those are pretty obvious.

                  73, Bob G8VOI
                • Alan
                  ... From: g8voip Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test ... Sorry if I m wrong but when I last looked the various links were well down Fred s page
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "g8voip"
                    Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test



                    >
                    > Sorry, I am not sure I understand your comments.
                    >

                    Sorry if I'm wrong but when I last looked the various links were well down
                    Fred's page I thought they were not very obvious.
                    If we could just send someone to the page and they were right at the top
                    then absolute links like Robby has made would not be needed.

                    73 Alan G4ZFQ
                  • g8voip
                    Hi Alan, I am not sure how Robby links to the Fred s pages and files. It is pointless linking to the absolute files, I can understand your comments then, as
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 2, 2010
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                      Hi Alan,

                      I am not sure how Robby links to the Fred's pages and files.

                      It is pointless linking to the absolute files, I can understand your comments then, as every time there is an update,the links are no longer valid.

                      In all my documentation, I always point to the main page.

                      Perhaps that explains a lot of the problems people have, if they just download a file directly, then they are missing out on all of the additional information contained on those pages which I regard essential information that the users should read!

                      73, Bob G8VOI
                    • w4npx_2
                      Bob, thanks for your explanation of some of the issues I mentioned. My message was rather long because I wanted to point out all my findings. In any case, I
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                        Bob, thanks for your explanation of some of the issues I mentioned. My message was rather long because I wanted to point out all my findings. In any case, I have read Freds Firmware Guide, although as you pointed out it is directed to 15.11, and also his Configuration program has changed (now using version CFGSR 1.3).

                        Following Robbys change of the Instructions for the LO stage build, I did the CFG test and it showed a start up of 28.2 mhz and all the settings were exactly as shown in the manual.

                        I then went on and did the LO output test for 28.2 mhz but my output was loud and clear not on 28.2 but on 28.21540 mhz.

                        He suggeste that we do the test with a start up of 14.1 mhz for a center freq of 3.525. I assume that to do this test I would go back to the Si570 Tab in the CFGSR program and change the startup number to 14.1 mhz and reboot. Is that assumption correct? However I did not do this and know that if I do, I will still find my output higher than 14.1

                        I am not sure how to correct my discrepancy of 15+ khz. Under the Calibration Tab, it appears that I cannot do Calibration 2 without the receiver actually working, but as to Calibration 1 I need to have the actual Factory Startup Frequency. This is filled in as 56.32 in the Calibration 1 message box. Is this 56.32 the Factory Startup Frequency that I use for the Calibration, or do I find that elsewhere and fill it in in the message box before pressing calibration.

                        OR

                        should I just go on and finish the divider stages and BPF stages and finish the receiver and then worry about the calibration being off?

                        I also note that in Version 1.3 of the CFGSR program that there is a Tune Tab and not sure whether the purpose of that tab is to somehow use in calibration. Incidently the numbers shown in the Tune tab and elsewhere confirm a frequency of 28.200, but that is just not what is coming out of the Oscillator.

                        Thanks for all your help,

                        Bob W4NPX


                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Bob,
                        >
                        > There are just too many things to try and fully answer in one go, but I would suggest if you have not already downloaded and read the 'Firmware Users Guide', do so and hopefully you should find answers to most of your queries.
                        >
                        > Note: currently the user guide is for Fred PE0FKO's v15.11 AVR firmware, but most is common for v15.12 as well, and should not be too difficult to figure out.
                        >
                        > http://home.ict.nl/~fredkrom/pe0fko/g8voi/
                        >
                        > I am working on a supplement covering v15.12 and using the CFGSR program, but there is an updated version of CFGSR in the pipeline, so waiting to see what is needed for that.
                        >
                        > It is unfortunate that the build notes still refer to the DG8SAQ test program, things have moved on a lot from there and the results may no longer be valid, as that was only applicable to the QRP2000 groups v1.4 AVR firmware. This has been a constant source of confusion in the past few months.
                        >
                        > Running the 'CFGSR' program, and checking the device is recognised, i.e. can be 'opened', and looking at the 'Test' tab is sufficient to prove correct USB operation and communication with the Si570 chip.
                        >
                        > Originally the Si570 ran at the device default start up frequency 56.200MHz, however with the current AVR firmware, it will run at the default value set up, 28.200MHz.
                        >
                        > It is necessary to carry out the calibration process for the Si570 before trying to accurately measure any frequency, that accounts for the offset you are seeing, see the user guide for details.
                        >
                        > With the current AVR firmware, leave all of the SDR programs set for the default Si570 clock frequency of 114.285MHz and only use the firmware calibration. That is automatically applied when running any SDR program, and removes the need to calibration each program separately. If you do not do that, you will end up with confusion as both the firmware and SDR program will apply their own calibrations, and you will never correct any error.
                        >
                        > The oscillator will be running all the time, but you get more signal radiation via the aerial lead when its connected.
                        >
                        > The current version of the USB driver works with the original v1.4 AVR firmware as well.
                        >
                        > In CFGSR, if you click on the device listed in the main box, the other information boxes will be updated.
                        >
                        > Hope that has pointed you in the right direction,
                        >
                        > 73, Bob G8VOI
                        >
                      • Alan
                        ... From: w4npx_2 Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test ... Using 56.32 SHOULD bring the Si570 very close. From the trouble you have had with the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "w4npx_2"
                          Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test


                          >
                          > I am not sure how to correct my discrepancy of 15+ khz. Under the
                          > Calibration Tab, it appears that I cannot do Calibration 2 without the
                          > receiver actually working, but as to Calibration 1 I need to have the
                          > actual Factory Startup Frequency. This is filled in as 56.32 in the
                          > Calibration 1 message box. Is this 56.32 the Factory Startup Frequency
                          > that I use for the Calibration, or do I find that elsewhere and fill it in
                          > in the message box before pressing calibration.
                          >

                          Using 56.32 SHOULD bring the Si570 very close. From the trouble you have had
                          with the PIC maybe your Si570 is a rogue.
                          Leave it until you have the RX working, then try the other method.
                          I would not bother with other tests, it is working.

                          73 Alan G4ZFQ
                        • Alan
                          ... From: w4npx_2 Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test ... This does what it says, sets the frequency to tune a Si570 to a required frequency.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "w4npx_2"
                            Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test



                            >
                            > I also note that in Version 1.3 of the CFGSR program that there is a Tune
                            > Tab and not sure whether the purpose of that tab is to somehow use in
                            > calibration.

                            This does what it says, sets the frequency to tune a Si570 to a required
                            frequency.

                            You could try calibrating it with a slightly different frequency than
                            56.32MHz in the startup box, see if it then gets closer.
                            I think you are saying the PIC frequencies were low so try reducing it to
                            something like 55.7. If this works then your Si570 is way out!

                            73 Alan G4ZFQ
                          • g8voip
                            Hi Bob, There really is very little difference between v15.11 and v15.12 as far as all of the basic settings are concerned, everything in the user guide is
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                              Hi Bob,

                              There really is very little difference between v15.11 and v15.12 as far as all of the basic settings are concerned, everything in the user guide is still applicable. The new supplement will refer back to that one as it is not worth duplicating all that information..

                              The only real difference for v15.12 is the facility to configure the LO settings individually for each of the four bands. For most SoftRock users however the default settings are all that they would ever need to use, unless you wanted to use the v9.0 RX with the plug in VHF converters.

                              At the stage you are at testing the LO, do not bother about any small frequency offsets, calibration can be done when you have the transceiver completed which is a lot easier. As long as you are within a few tens of kHz, shows things are probably working correctly.

                              The only point of those initial tests is to prove you have communication via the USB interface and the Si570 is being controlled and responding correctly.

                              The 'Tune' tab in CFGSR is in effect a stand alone VFO controller, so whatever frequency you set it to, the Si570 will generate an output at four times that. That is the easiest way to change the LO output frequency.

                              You could do it by updating the 'Start Up' frequency on the Si570 tab, but no point really, leave that at its default value.

                              If you wanted to use the 'Calibrate B' function at this stage, you could measure the LO output frequency, divide by four, and enter that value in the 'Real' box, and remember to press the 'Calibrate' button alongside it to save the new setting.

                              You will not see the default 56.2MHz output frequency on start up any more using the v15.12 firmware, that defaults to 28.2MHz.

                              If you do see the LO output around 56.2MHz, that is an indication that the AVR chip has not controlled the Si570 correctly. Usually a problem with the soldered joints on either the SCL or SDA lines on the Si570.

                              As soon as the AVR chip operates, it sets the Si570 to the value set in the Si570 tab 'Start Up' box. If you really wanted, you could set that to 56.2MHz, then accurately measure the Si570 output frequency, and enter that in the box for 'Calibrate A' and press calibrate.

                              At the point in the testing you are at, if you are able to use CFGSR, and get the message 'Connected to Si570 ....' on the opening General tab, that proves the USB communication is working, driver loaded etc.

                              If you look at the 'Test' tab, and values are present, shows communication with the Si570 is good, if not you will have an error message displayed.

                              If the LO frequency is around 28.200MHz, shows the AVR chip has set up the Si570 correctly (ignoring any offset).

                              Those are the only tests necessary to have the confidence the LO is almost certainly working correctly.

                              73, Bob G8VOI
                            • g8voip
                              Hi Alan, I think two similar threads are getting a bit confused here. Bob W4NPX is using the USB interface to control his Si570. Tom was using the PIC / DIL
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                Hi Alan,

                                I think two similar threads are getting a bit confused here.

                                Bob W4NPX is using the USB interface to control his Si570.

                                Tom was using the PIC / DIL switches, although he has the USB to I2C for his v6.3 TX/RX, that appeared not to be working.

                                73, Bob G8VOI
                              • Alan
                                ... From: g8voip
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "g8voip" <
                                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test



                                  >
                                  > At the stage you are at testing the LO, do not bother about any small
                                  > frequency offsets, calibration can be done when you have the transceiver
                                  > completed which is a lot easier. As long as you are within a few tens of
                                  > kHz, shows things are probably working correctly.
                                  >

                                  It seems strange that both the PIC and CFGSR seem to be that far off. Both
                                  should set the SI570 to within a few tens of Hz at HF, not tens of KHz.

                                  As you say, the best thing for Bob is to finish it off and see if it will
                                  calibrate closer. The Si570 is working, that's all that is needed at this
                                  stage.

                                  73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                • g8voip
                                  Hi Alan, I think you have got the two threads a bit confused! Bob is using CFGSR with his board, and does not appear to have any real problem, just queries
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                    Hi Alan,

                                    I think you have got the two threads a bit confused!

                                    Bob is using CFGSR with his board, and does not appear to have any real problem, just queries about the calibration procedure.

                                    Tom is the one who is using the PIC and I think has some tuning issues. From his original posting, the Si570 output frequencies are very close to the values programmed in the PIC, so I do not think that is his real problem. He did also mention he was unable to get his USB to I2C interface running, which would be the much better option.

                                    Hope that clears things up, either that, or old age and the cold has caught up with me as well!

                                    73, just off out to brave the elephants!

                                    Bob G8VOI
                                  • Alan
                                    ... From: g8voip Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test AND Re: LO Question Date: 02 January 2010 19:42 ... It s me that s getting confused! Sorry
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "g8voip"
                                      Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test AND Re: LO Question
                                      Date: 02 January 2010 19:42




                                      > Hi Alan,
                                      >
                                      > I think two similar threads are getting a bit confused here.
                                      >
                                      > Bob W4NPX is using the USB interface to control his Si570.
                                      >
                                      > Tom was using the PIC / DIL switches, although he has the USB to I2C for
                                      > his v6.3 TX/RX, that appeared not to be working.
                                      >

                                      It's me that's getting confused! Sorry I must look at the headings more
                                      carefully!

                                      Bob is getting a higher frequency than expected, CFGSR should get it closer,
                                      but leave that until it is finished.
                                      Tom's PIC sets it lower but, again, it should be much closer.

                                      73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                    • tom
                                      Hi, Yes, I am the one with the USB issue. May be a bad I2C interface card. Will borrow another one to try. I do have the receiver working now thanks to some of
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                        Hi,
                                         
                                        Yes, I am the one with the USB issue. May be a bad I2C interface card. Will borrow another one to try. I do have the receiver working now thanks to some of the group suggestions.
                                         
                                        I am still working on the sensitivity issue. Initially I redid the toroids on the 80/40 board and that did help. I also redid L201 and L202 on the PAF board. Seems I used 160m T30 cores left from the SR board rather than the T37 called for. Very similar appearances. I also redid T202. Now the sensitivity is better even with the P2 jumper removed from the SR and the PAF board plugged in, although still not in the class of the 746PRO.
                                         
                                        Seems the sound card settings are also very critical setting to minimize audio feedback issues. Still trying to figure that one out.
                                         
                                        I also still have the mirror image problem to contend with.
                                        Thanks for the help so far. I will keep plugging away.
                                         
                                        Tom
                                         
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: g8voip
                                        Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:47 AM
                                        Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                         

                                        Hi Alan,

                                        I think you have got the two threads a bit confused!

                                        Bob is using CFGSR with his board, and does not appear to have any real problem, just queries about the calibration procedure.

                                        Tom is the one who is using the PIC and I think has some tuning issues. From his original posting, the Si570 output frequencies are very close to the values programmed in the PIC, so I do not think that is his real problem. He did also mention he was unable to get his USB to I2C interface running, which would be the much better option.

                                        Hope that clears things up, either that, or old age and the cold has caught up with me as well!

                                        73, just off out to brave the elephants!

                                        Bob G8VOI

                                      • Alan
                                        ... From: tom Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test ... Many HF rigs are over sensitive especially on the lower frequencies, you may have to
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "tom"
                                          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test


                                          >Now the sensitivity is better even with the P2 jumper removed from the SR
                                          >and the PAF board plugged in, although still not in the class of the
                                          >746PRO.

                                          Many HF rigs are over sensitive especially on the lower frequencies, you may
                                          have to check whether there are actually any signals the 746 will receive
                                          that the Softrock does not.

                                          >Seems the sound card settings are also very critical setting to minimize
                                          >audio feedback issues. Still trying to figure that one out.

                                          Does this help? How to check and avoid an unwanted bypass between the
                                          soundcard's Line-In and Line-Out
                                          http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/speclab/startins.htm#unwanted_audio_bypassInput to output feedback on Audigy 2http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/speclab/startins.htm#audigy_2>I also still have the mirror image problem to contend with.If the transformer has not rectified this there must be a fault. Have yougot both channels coming out? Check with headphones for noises both sides orconnect each one in turn to see if they both work. Do you have a sterioinput?73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                        • tom
                                          Hi Alan and Bob, I suspect the sensitivity is ok now. I do have two audio channels working and I have indication on both L and R on the bottom display of
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                            Hi Alan  and Bob,
                                             
                                            I suspect the sensitivity is ok now. I do have two audio channels working and I have indication on both L and R on the bottom display of Rocky, but I also still have a perfectly symmetrical reflection with 40 station LSB on higher frequency half and same ones USB on lower half.  My frequency readout is off by about 80 KHZ on 40 meters. 7150 actual is indicating 7230. I have to use the PIC until I figure out why I can't communicate with USB/i2C.
                                             
                                            Tom
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Alan
                                            Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:00 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                             


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "tom"
                                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                            >Now the sensitivity is better even with the P2 jumper removed from the SR
                                            >and the PAF board plugged in, although still not in the class of the
                                            >746PRO.

                                            Many HF rigs are over sensitive especially on the lower frequencies, you may
                                            have to check whether there are actually any signals the 746 will receive
                                            that the Softrock does not.

                                            >Seems the sound card settings are also very critical setting to minimize
                                            >audio feedback issues. Still trying to figure that one out.

                                            Does this help? How to check and avoid an unwanted bypass between the
                                            soundcard's Line-In and Line-Out
                                            http://freenet- homepage. de/dl4yhf/ speclab/startins .htm#unwanted_ audio_bypassInpu t to output feedback on Audigy 2http://freenet- homepage. de/dl4yhf/ speclab/startins .htm#audigy_ 2>I also still have the mirror image problem to contend with.If the transformer has not rectified this there must be a fault. Have yougot both channels coming out? Check with headphones for noises both sides orconnect each one in turn to see if they both work. Do you have a sterioinput? 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                          • g8voip
                                            Hi Tom, It sounds like you do not have any image rejection. Several possible causes: Are you sure you have a stereo line input to your PC, often laptops only
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                              Hi Tom,

                                              It sounds like you do not have any image rejection. Several possible causes:

                                              Are you sure you have a stereo line input to your PC, often laptops only have mono inputs.

                                              Some SoundBlaster cards require a one sample delay between channels, otherwise impossible to achieve image rejection.

                                              A problem with the phase splitting transformer winding, such that the I/Q signals do not end up 90 degrees apart.

                                              Either the I or Q output signal missing.

                                              I do not understand the frequency error you are seeing, as if your original posting was correct, the LO frequencies being generated for each of the PIC / DIL switch settings were correct. That would suggest that you have something incorrectly configured in the SDR program set up.

                                              It is worth deleting the Rocky.ini file from the folder and running the program again in case something has been corrupted causing the offset in displayed frequency.

                                              The USB to I2C interface should be very easy to debug and get going.

                                              73, Bob G8VOI
                                            • w4npx_2
                                              Problem of 15khz offset seems to be solved. Bob, first I checked with the tuning screen in the CFGSR 1.3 program and was able to bring the LO down from
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                Problem of 15khz offset seems to be solved.

                                                Bob, first I checked with the tuning screen in the CFGSR 1.3 program and was able to bring the LO down from 28.21540 to 28.2 mhz. Then I rebooted (repowered) the V9 board and the USB which brought me back to the 28.21540 original reading of LO output.

                                                I then went to the Calibrate tab in CFGSR 1.3 and in Calibrate A it said 56.32. I hit the calibrate button and it immemdiately moved the LO output back to 28.2, right on the money in the ICOM I was using to monitor. I then looked at the Si570 screen and the Startup frequency of 28.200 had been removed and was blank. I then repowered the V 9 and the USB again, Lo output came up right on 28.2 as is should, opened he CFGSR 1.3 to the Si570 page and the start up frequency was now showing correctly as 28.200 again, clicked save and now all seems to be well. Very strange though that the original Si570 tab also showed 28.200, but of course it was off by 15 khz.

                                                Looks like the problem is solved, but I wonder how it got so far off to begin with-guess I may never know the answer to that question. Now back to the solder iron.

                                                Again, thanks for all your help-also helped me feel a bit more comfortable using the Configuration program.

                                                73,

                                                Bob W4NPX



                                                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "g8voip" <g8voi.reeves59@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Bob,
                                                >
                                                > There really is very little difference between v15.11 and v15.12 as far as all of the basic settings are concerned, everything in the user guide is still applicable. The new supplement will refer back to that one as it is not worth duplicating all that information..
                                                >
                                                > The only real difference for v15.12 is the facility to configure the LO settings individually for each of the four bands. For most SoftRock users however the default settings are all that they would ever need to use, unless you wanted to use the v9.0 RX with the plug in VHF converters.
                                                >
                                                > At the stage you are at testing the LO, do not bother about any small frequency offsets, calibration can be done when you have the transceiver completed which is a lot easier. As long as you are within a few tens of kHz, shows things are probably working correctly.
                                                >
                                                > The only point of those initial tests is to prove you have communication via the USB interface and the Si570 is being controlled and responding correctly.
                                                >
                                                > The 'Tune' tab in CFGSR is in effect a stand alone VFO controller, so whatever frequency you set it to, the Si570 will generate an output at four times that. That is the easiest way to change the LO output frequency.
                                                >
                                                > You could do it by updating the 'Start Up' frequency on the Si570 tab, but no point really, leave that at its default value.
                                                >
                                                > If you wanted to use the 'Calibrate B' function at this stage, you could measure the LO output frequency, divide by four, and enter that value in the 'Real' box, and remember to press the 'Calibrate' button alongside it to save the new setting.
                                                >
                                                > You will not see the default 56.2MHz output frequency on start up any more using the v15.12 firmware, that defaults to 28.2MHz.
                                                >
                                                > If you do see the LO output around 56.2MHz, that is an indication that the AVR chip has not controlled the Si570 correctly. Usually a problem with the soldered joints on either the SCL or SDA lines on the Si570.
                                                >
                                                > As soon as the AVR chip operates, it sets the Si570 to the value set in the Si570 tab 'Start Up' box. If you really wanted, you could set that to 56.2MHz, then accurately measure the Si570 output frequency, and enter that in the box for 'Calibrate A' and press calibrate.
                                                >
                                                > At the point in the testing you are at, if you are able to use CFGSR, and get the message 'Connected to Si570 ....' on the opening General tab, that proves the USB communication is working, driver loaded etc.
                                                >
                                                > If you look at the 'Test' tab, and values are present, shows communication with the Si570 is good, if not you will have an error message displayed.
                                                >
                                                > If the LO frequency is around 28.200MHz, shows the AVR chip has set up the Si570 correctly (ignoring any offset).
                                                >
                                                > Those are the only tests necessary to have the confidence the LO is almost certainly working correctly.
                                                >
                                                > 73, Bob G8VOI
                                                >
                                              • tom
                                                Bob, I have stereo plugs and the sound card runs stereo. I can hear both channels in heaphones. Which transformer is involved in this circuit? I may have
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                  Bob,
                                                   
                                                  I have stereo plugs and the sound card runs stereo. I can hear both channels in heaphones. Which transformer is involved in this circuit?  I may have messed up the connections of a toroid. I will delete the INI file and see if that does anything...
                                                   
                                                  Tom
                                                   
                                                  Tom
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: g8voip
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:22 PM
                                                  Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                                   

                                                  Hi Tom,

                                                  It sounds like you do not have any image rejection. Several possible causes:

                                                  Are you sure you have a stereo line input to your PC, often laptops only have mono inputs.

                                                  Some SoundBlaster cards require a one sample delay between channels, otherwise impossible to achieve image rejection.

                                                  A problem with the phase splitting transformer winding, such that the I/Q signals do not end up 90 degrees apart.

                                                  Either the I or Q output signal missing.

                                                  I do not understand the frequency error you are seeing, as if your original posting was correct, the LO frequencies being generated for each of the PIC / DIL switch settings were correct. That would suggest that you have something incorrectly configured in the SDR program set up.

                                                  It is worth deleting the Rocky.ini file from the folder and running the program again in case something has been corrupted causing the offset in displayed frequency.

                                                  The USB to I2C interface should be very easy to debug and get going.

                                                  73, Bob G8VOI

                                                • g8voip
                                                  Hi Bob, Glad to hear you have managed to calibrate it now and get in on the correct frequency. It is not a case of anything being off or incorrectly set to
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                    Hi Bob,

                                                    Glad to hear you have managed to calibrate it now and get in on the correct frequency.

                                                    It is not a case of anything being off or incorrectly set to start off with, just the tolerance of the actual Si570 device frequency.

                                                    To begin with, an assumption has to be made, i.e that the Si570 default internal oscillator frequency is exactly 114.285MHz. You will see that figure present in most of the SDR programs as the default 'xtal' value.

                                                    In practice, it will never be exactly that value, hence all other frequencies generated will be in error, and in fact even after you have carried out some calibration you will still see some variation due to ambient temperature changes.

                                                    The calibration process you did effectively compensates for the difference between the assumed default 114.285MHz and your actual devices value.

                                                    On power up the AVR chip commands the Si570 to generate 28.200MHz (the firmware default start up frequency), that assumes 114.285MHz, so initially before doing any calibration that is why you got a different value.

                                                    After carrying out the calibration, the new value is stored in the firmware. If you take a look at the 'Test' tab in 'CFGSR', you will see the corrected frequency in the top crystal frequency box, and see how far off 114.285MHz your particular device actually is.

                                                    73, Bob G8VOI
                                                  • g8voip
                                                    Hi Tom, Even if you have a mono input, I suspect you would hear something on both channels. Should be able to prove it by disconnecting each channel in turn
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                      Hi Tom,

                                                      Even if you have a mono input, I suspect you would hear something on both channels. Should be able to prove it by disconnecting each channel in turn and making sure it completely goes away.

                                                      If you run Rocky and look at the display, normally if you remove either the I or Q input to the PC, you would go from correct operation with image rejection to having no image rejection.

                                                      I suspect with yours, removing either I or Q input lead will have no effect on the display at all, or with one removed you will have the same display, and with the other, nothing at all.

                                                      The transformer in question is T100 on the RX filter plug-in, should in effect be a centre tapped secondary, with output signals on pins 2 and 3 180 degrees apart.

                                                      73, Bob G8VOI
                                                    • tom
                                                      Bob, should I be concerned with which secondary winding is tied to which pins of P101? What I mean is, the lower winding in the schematic is tied to 1/2 and
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                        Bob,
                                                         
                                                        should I be concerned with which secondary winding is tied to which pins of P101? What I mean is, the lower winding in the schematic is tied to 1/2 and the upper one to 3/1. Would it matter if the lower one was on 3/1 and upper on 1/2 in terms of phase issues in relation to the primaey?
                                                         
                                                        Tom
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: g8voip
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 3:03 PM
                                                        Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                                         

                                                        Hi Tom,

                                                        Even if you have a mono input, I suspect you would hear something on both channels. Should be able to prove it by disconnecting each channel in turn and making sure it completely goes away.

                                                        If you run Rocky and look at the display, normally if you remove either the I or Q input to the PC, you would go from correct operation with image rejection to having no image rejection.

                                                        I suspect with yours, removing either I or Q input lead will have no effect on the display at all, or with one removed you will have the same display, and with the other, nothing at all.

                                                        The transformer in question is T100 on the RX filter plug-in, should in effect be a centre tapped secondary, with output signals on pins 2 and 3 180 degrees apart.

                                                        73, Bob G8VOI

                                                      • tom
                                                        Bob, you re absolutely right. When I disconnect one audio side from the board I still hear both channels, and when I remove the other side instead, I lose all
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                          Bob,
                                                           
                                                          you're absolutely right. When I disconnect one audio side from the board I still hear both channels, and when I remove the other side instead, I lose all audio. What does that mean?
                                                           
                                                          Tom
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: g8voip
                                                          Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 3:03 PM
                                                          Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                                           

                                                          Hi Tom,

                                                          Even if you have a mono input, I suspect you would hear something on both channels. Should be able to prove it by disconnecting each channel in turn and making sure it completely goes away.

                                                          If you run Rocky and look at the display, normally if you remove either the I or Q input to the PC, you would go from correct operation with image rejection to having no image rejection.

                                                          I suspect with yours, removing either I or Q input lead will have no effect on the display at all, or with one removed you will have the same display, and with the other, nothing at all.

                                                          The transformer in question is T100 on the RX filter plug-in, should in effect be a centre tapped secondary, with output signals on pins 2 and 3 180 degrees apart.

                                                          73, Bob G8VOI

                                                        • tom
                                                          Bob, I got the frequency tamed. In Rocky I just chose another offset by the frequency readout. The problem with the image isse is I hear all sorts of SSB
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                            Bob,
                                                             
                                                            I got the frequency tamed. In Rocky I just chose another offset by the frequency readout.  The problem with the image isse is I hear all sorts of SSB stations but some come in on USB and some on LSB, even near the same portion of the band.
                                                             
                                                            Tom
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: g8voip
                                                            Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:22 PM
                                                            Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test

                                                             

                                                            Hi Tom,

                                                            It sounds like you do not have any image rejection. Several possible causes:

                                                            Are you sure you have a stereo line input to your PC, often laptops only have mono inputs.

                                                            Some SoundBlaster cards require a one sample delay between channels, otherwise impossible to achieve image rejection.

                                                            A problem with the phase splitting transformer winding, such that the I/Q signals do not end up 90 degrees apart.

                                                            Either the I or Q output signal missing.

                                                            I do not understand the frequency error you are seeing, as if your original posting was correct, the LO frequencies being generated for each of the PIC / DIL switch settings were correct. That would suggest that you have something incorrectly configured in the SDR program set up.

                                                            It is worth deleting the Rocky.ini file from the folder and running the program again in case something has been corrupted causing the offset in displayed frequency.

                                                            The USB to I2C interface should be very easy to debug and get going.

                                                            73, Bob G8VOI

                                                          • g8voip
                                                            Hi Tom, Well, to me it sounds like you either have a mono sound input, or one of the I / Q signals is not coming out of the SoftRock, or getting through into
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                              Hi Tom,

                                                              Well, to me it sounds like you either have a mono sound input, or one of the I / Q signals is not coming out of the SoftRock, or getting through into the PC correctly.

                                                              If you identify which lead gives you something on the display, swap them over and try the other on the same channel. If it gives the same results, looks like both I and Q outputs from the SoftRock are present, so a problem with the PC input or configuration.

                                                              If you have an oscilloscope you could also confirm both the I and Q signals are present. If tuned to a carrier, you should see a sine wave at each output, but with a 90 degree phase shift between them.

                                                              For the transformer, it does not matter which way round the two windings are connected as long as they end up in series and not in parallel. All you are after is two outputs from the transformer 180 degrees apart.

                                                              Not sure what you mean by choosing another offset for the frequency, that figure should match the LO frequency you have chosen, without looking back, one was 7.046MHz? So with the PIC / DIL switches set to generate that, you must set up the centre frequency in Rocky to match it. If you are doing something else, that is wrong.

                                                              Really you need to resolve the image problem first before worrying too much about absolute frequency calibration.

                                                              73, Bob G8VOI

                                                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <loeblt@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Bob,
                                                              >
                                                              > I got the frequency tamed. In Rocky I just chose another offset by the frequency readout. The problem with the image isse is I hear all sorts of SSB stations but some come in on USB and some on LSB, even near the same portion of the band.
                                                              >
                                                              > Tom
                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > From: g8voip
                                                              > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:22 PM
                                                              > Subject: [softrock40] Re: V 9.0 Rx LO Stage Test
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > Hi Tom,
                                                              >
                                                              > It sounds like you do not have any image rejection. Several possible causes:
                                                              >
                                                              > Are you sure you have a stereo line input to your PC, often laptops only have mono inputs.
                                                              >
                                                              > Some SoundBlaster cards require a one sample delay between channels, otherwise impossible to achieve image rejection.
                                                              >
                                                              > A problem with the phase splitting transformer winding, such that the I/Q signals do not end up 90 degrees apart.
                                                              >
                                                              > Either the I or Q output signal missing.
                                                              >
                                                              > I do not understand the frequency error you are seeing, as if your original posting was correct, the LO frequencies being generated for each of the PIC / DIL switch settings were correct. That would suggest that you have something incorrectly configured in the SDR program set up.
                                                              >
                                                              > It is worth deleting the Rocky.ini file from the folder and running the program again in case something has been corrupted causing the offset in displayed frequency.
                                                              >
                                                              > The USB to I2C interface should be very easy to debug and get going.
                                                              >
                                                              > 73, Bob G8VOI
                                                              >
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