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Re: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD

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  • Chris Albertson
    ... External USB audio interfaces have features that make them more usable. For example knobs on the front panel (to set pre amp gain) and LEDs that display
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2009
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      On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Mr Doug - <dsc3507@...> wrote:


      I looked at the specs and there are considerable differences between these two although some specs appear better for the PCI 0404 and some better for the USB 0404. I am convinced that most of these specs are meaningless

      External USB audio interfaces have features that make them more usable.  For example knobs on the front panel (to set pre amp gain) and LEDs that display clipping level and they can be used without fidling with an "octopus" adaptor behind the computer and importantly can be used in the next computer you might buy which just may not have a PCI slot.

      Cabling is different too.  With the external box, you place the box near the other equipment and then run a single USB cable to the computer.  With the internal card you have to run all the analog ables to the computer.  How to you want to set up your desk?

      --
      =====
      Chris Albertson
      Redondo Beach, California
    • Mr Doug -
      Chris,  I know all that and understand fully the advantages and flexibility of external vs. internal. Thats one of the main reasons I want external. The
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2009
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        Chris,  I know all that and understand fully the advantages and flexibility of external vs. internal. Thats one of the main reasons I want external. The question is what external card is best or should I say best for the money. Let say in the <$200 retail class.

        Doug

        --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@...> wrote:

        From: Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@...>
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD
        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 6:37 PM

         



        On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Mr Doug - <dsc3507@yahoo. com> wrote:


        I looked at the specs and there are considerable differences between these two although some specs appear better for the PCI 0404 and some better for the USB 0404. I am convinced that most of these specs are meaningless

        External USB audio interfaces have features that make them more usable.  For example knobs on the front panel (to set pre amp gain) and LEDs that display clipping level and they can be used without fidling with an "octopus" adaptor behind the computer and importantly can be used in the next computer you might buy which just may not have a PCI slot.

        Cabling is different too.  With the external box, you place the box near the other equipment and then run a single USB cable to the computer.  With the internal card you have to run all the analog ables to the computer.  How to you want to set up your desk?

        --
        =====
        Chris Albertson
        Redondo Beach, California

      • g8voip
        Hi, I do not have any external sound devices, so wonder if having knobs to adjust the levels is really an advantage? Given that you need to balance the gain
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 1, 2009
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          Hi,

          I do not have any external sound devices, so wonder if having knobs to adjust the levels is really an advantage?

          Given that you need to balance the gain between channels to better than 0.01dB to achieve 60dB of image rejection, I would have though if you as much as sneezed in the general direction of the controls you would upset the image rejection.

          Over time analogue pots usually become noisy, unless they are actually used to control electronic attenuators rather than the adjusting the audio level itself.

          I would be interested to know of any experiences using them.

          73, Bob G8VOI




          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Mr Doug - <dsc3507@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > I looked at the specs and there are considerable differences between these
          > > two although some specs appear better for the PCI 0404 and some better for
          > > the USB 0404. I am convinced that most of these specs are meaningless
          > >
          >
          > External USB audio interfaces have features that make them more usable. For
          > example knobs on the front panel (to set pre amp gain) and LEDs that display
          > clipping level and they can be used without fidling with an "octopus"
          > adaptor behind the computer and importantly can be used in the next computer
          > you might buy which just may not have a PCI slot.
          >
          > Cabling is different too. With the external box, you place the box near the
          > other equipment and then run a single USB cable to the computer. With the
          > internal card you have to run all the analog ables to the computer. How to
          > you want to set up your desk?
          >
          > --
          > =====
          > Chris Albertson
          > Redondo Beach, California
          >
        • Alan
          ... From: g8voip Subject: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD ... Yes, really levels need to be set once, before setting image rejection, and never be
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 2, 2009
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "g8voip"
            Subject: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD


            > I do not have any external sound devices, so wonder if having knobs to
            > adjust the levels is really an advantage?
            >
            > Given that you need to balance the gain between channels to better than
            > 0.01dB to achieve 60dB of image rejection, I would have though if you as
            > much as sneezed in the general direction of the controls you would upset
            > the image rejection.
            >
            > Over time analogue pots usually become noisy, unless they are actually
            > used to control electronic attenuators rather than the adjusting the audio
            > level itself.
            >

            Yes, really levels need to be set once, before setting image rejection, and
            never be touched again.
            Recently, as Bob indicates, someone had a problem using the mixer
            adjustments. The electronic steps were not precise enough to maintain proper
            image rejection for different output powers.
            If someone wants to use a linear mode then ideally they should also use the
            same settings with a non-linear mode, even though it means a lower power
            output.
            On the other hand, if you use just the barefoot output of the Softrock even
            30dB image rejection is not going to put much of a signal on the wrong
            frequency! In this country we are just required not to radiate harmful
            interference, The more precise adjustment of image rejection is important if
            a Softrock is followed by an amplifier. In that case it would be essential
            to keep all settings constant.

            73 Alan G4ZFQ
          • Sid Boyce
            ... I ve been there on elbows and knees with a flash light. It also may mean having to use lengthy audio cables for which I m using very thick high quality
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2009
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              On 01/12/09 23:37, Chris Albertson wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Mr Doug - <dsc3507@...
              > <mailto:dsc3507@...>> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > I looked at the specs and there are considerable differences between
              > these two although some specs appear better for the PCI 0404 and
              > some better for the USB 0404. I am convinced that most of these
              > specs are meaningless
              >
              >
              > External USB audio interfaces have features that make them more usable.
              > For example knobs on the front panel (to set pre amp gain) and LEDs that
              > display clipping level and they can be used without fidling with an
              > "octopus" adaptor behind the computer and importantly can be used in the
              > next computer you might buy which just may not have a PCI slot.
              >
              I've been there on elbows and knees with a flash light. It also may mean
              having to use lengthy audio cables for which I'm using very thick high
              quality ones 2m long.

              > Cabling is different too. With the external box, you place the box near
              > the other equipment and then run a single USB cable to the computer.
              > With the internal card you have to run all the analog ables to the
              > computer. How to you want to set up your desk?
              >
              Now my E-MU 0404 PCI card has gone faulty and I'm using the E-MU 0404
              USB, I see a great opportunity of keeping the cables short and easily
              interchangeable between desktop, laptops and the beagleboard.
              > --
              > =====
              > Chris Albertson
              > Redondo Beach, California
              >
              The 0404 USB works now, it didn't when I first tried it under Linux with
              the SR v6.3 and the sound card matrix says input is not supported though
              I had been using it successfully for a couple of years for guitar work,
              so I bought the 0404 PCI. When I had a temporary XP box around, the USB
              box worked under all the software.
              73 ... Sid.
              --
              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              Specialist, Cricket Coach
              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
            • Mr Doug -
              Sid,  Regarding the 0404 USB you say works but how well or how well compared to other cards you have tried for SDR?  Also many of the cards including the EMU
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 2, 2009
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                Sid,

                 Regarding the 0404 USB you say works but how well or how well compared to other cards you have tried for SDR?  Also many of the cards including the EMU series can use the ASIO or ASIO2 driver which much improves the thoughput. I wonder if you are using that?

                I can also see where the physical levels could be a convenience but also a detriment regarding image rejection. I suppose being able to lock the controls would help if it had that ability.

                Doug



                --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:

                From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 6:10 AM

                 


                Now my E-MU 0404 PCI card has gone faulty and I'm using the E-MU 0404
                USB, I see a great opportunity of keeping the cables short and easily
                interchangeable between desktop, laptops and the beagleboard.
                > --
                > =====
                > Chris Albertson
                > Redondo Beach, California
                >
                The 0404 USB works now, it didn't when I first tried it under Linux with
                the SR v6.3 and the sound card matrix says input is not supported though
                I had been using it successfully for a couple of years for guitar work,
                so I bought the 0404 PCI. When I had a temporary XP box around, the USB
                box worked under all the software.
                73 ... Sid.
                --
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Specialist, Cricket Coach



              • Sid Boyce
                ... It was the only one I tried under Windows with ASIO and it worked fine with Rocky, PowerSDR-IQ and powerSDR-sr40. At one stage it ran at 192K, then for
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2009
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                  On 02/12/09 15:24, Mr Doug - wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Sid,
                  >
                  > Regarding the 0404 USB you say works but how well or how well compared
                  > to other cards you have tried for SDR? Also many of the cards including
                  > the EMU series can use the ASIO or ASIO2 driver which much improves the
                  > thoughput. I wonder if you are using that?
                  >
                  It was the only one I tried under Windows with ASIO and it worked fine
                  with Rocky, PowerSDR-IQ and powerSDR-sr40. At one stage it ran at 192K,
                  then for some reason I couldn't figure it would only work at 96K max.
                  Under Linux pretty much the same as the E-MU 0404 PCI before that went
                  bust. On Linux alsa seems hardwired to run at 48K only and I'm still
                  looking for a way to change that to a higher rate.

                  > I can also see where the physical levels could be a convenience but also
                  > a detriment regarding image rejection. I suppose being able to lock the
                  > controls would help if it had that ability.
                  >
                  > Doug
                  >
                  On Windows I adjusted the controls to about the 8 o'clock position and
                  under Linux I have to leave both turned right down as the noise floor
                  would raise, depending on the band, from -110dBm/-120dbM to ~-90dBm when
                  at the 8 o'clock position.
                  Perhaps it would have been better to test against other than the PCI card.
                  73 ... Sid.

                  >
                  >
                  > --- On *Wed, 12/2/09, Sid Boyce /<sboyce@...>/* wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: External Soundcards YAD
                  > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 6:10 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Now my E-MU 0404 PCI card has gone faulty and I'm using the E-MU 0404
                  > USB, I see a great opportunity of keeping the cables short and easily
                  > interchangeable between desktop, laptops and the beagleboard.
                  > > --
                  > > =====
                  > > Chris Albertson
                  > > Redondo Beach, California
                  > >
                  > The 0404 USB works now, it didn't when I first tried it under Linux with
                  > the SR v6.3 and the sound card matrix says input is not supported though
                  > I had been using it successfully for a couple of years for guitar work,
                  > so I bought the 0404 PCI. When I had a temporary XP box around, the USB
                  > box worked under all the software.
                  > 73 ... Sid.
                  > --
                  > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                  > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  > Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                  Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
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