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Re: [softrock40] SoftRock V7 beta pics and spectum shots

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  • Bill Dumke
    Bill, So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning off the AGC? That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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      Bill,

      So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
      off the AGC?

      That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
      the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.

      The method you used looks good to me.

      Bill WB5TCO

      Bill Tracey wrote:

      > Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
      > they
      > were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
      > I'm seeing.
      >
      > The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
      > bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
      >
      > Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
      > generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
      > calibrate
      > level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
      > signal
      > generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
      > measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
      > strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
      > level on
      > signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
      >
      > Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
      > in a
      > few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
      > to an
      > Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
      >
      > Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
      > VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Bill (kd5tfd)
      >
      > At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
      > >Bill,
      > >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
      > increase
      > >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
      > does
      > >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
      > >arrive)
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Bill Dumke
      Bill, Which version of PowerSDR were you using? Also have you tried the same measurement on a SoftRock 40 or any of the other SoftRock versions? It would be
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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        Bill,

        Which version of PowerSDR were you using?

        Also have you tried the same measurement on a SoftRock 40 or any of the
        other SoftRock versions?

        It would be interesting to see what results you have on the other bands
        to compare the SoftRock v7.0 performance.

        Bill WB5TCO

        Bill Dumke wrote:

        >Bill,
        >
        >So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
        >off the AGC?
        >
        >That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
        >the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.
        >
        >The method you used looks good to me.
        >
        >Bill WB5TCO
        >
        >Bill Tracey wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
        >>they
        >>were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
        >>I'm seeing.
        >>
        >>The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
        >>bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
        >>
        >>Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
        >>generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
        >>calibrate
        >>level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
        >>signal
        >>generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
        >>measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
        >>strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
        >>level on
        >>signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
        >>
        >>Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
        >>in a
        >>few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
        >>to an
        >>Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
        >>
        >>Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
        >>VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
        >>
        >>Cheers,
        >>
        >>Bill (kd5tfd)
        >>
        >>At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>>Bill,
        >>>What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
        >>>
        >>>
        >>increase
        >>
        >>
        >>>in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
        >>>
        >>>
        >>does
        >>
        >>
        >>>mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
        >>>arrive)
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>SPONSORED LINKS
        >>Ham radio
        >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ham+radio&w1=Ham+radio&c=1&s=15&.sig=t8IpznzYq-E2LbCrDXaGPQ>
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >> * Visit your group "softrock40
        >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/softrock40>" on the web.
        >>
        >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      • FRANCIS CARCIA
        I prefer to monitor recovered audio with an RMS volt meter. fc Bill Dumke wrote: Bill, So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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          I prefer to monitor recovered audio with an RMS volt meter.
          fc

          Bill Dumke <billd@...> wrote:
          Bill,

          So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
          off the AGC?

          That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
          the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.

          The method you used looks good to me.

          Bill WB5TCO

          Bill Tracey wrote:

          > Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
          > they
          > were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
          > I'm seeing.
          >
          > The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
          > bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
          >
          > Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
          > generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
          > calibrate
          > level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
          > signal
          > generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
          > measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
          > strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
          > level on
          > signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
          >
          > Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
          > in a
          > few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
          > to an
          > Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
          >
          > Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
          > VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Bill (kd5tfd)
          >
          > At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
          > >Bill,
          > >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
          > increase
          > >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
          > does
          > >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
          > >arrive)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          > Ham radio
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > * Visit your group "softrock40
          > " on the web.
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > softrock40-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service .
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >



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        • FRANCIS CARCIA
          -109 dBM MDS is not that great for above 20 meter work. I wonder if the op amp gain needs to increase. Does the background noise come up on the spectrum
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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            -109 dBM MDS is not that great for above 20 meter work. I wonder if the op amp gain needs to increase. Does the background noise come up on the spectrum display when the V7 is connected without an antenna. Do you know what level input saturates the sound card making spure. IE dynamic range? I use a pair of HP8640Bs myself.
            I like to see a mds lower than -125 dBm above 14 MHz. I usually set a RA6830 to -130 dBM and that has just enough MDS for 10 meters. Might need a preamplifier...fc

            Bill Tracey <kd5tfd@...> wrote:
            Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement -- they
            were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
            I'm seeing.

            The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
            bandwidth,  The measurement is done as follows:

            Connect SoftRock and sound card.  Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
            generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock.   Null image, calibrate
            level.  Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth.  Turn off RF on signal
            generator.  Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
            measurement A.  Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
            strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A.  Note amplitude level on
            signal generator - this is what I call MDS.

            Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b  -- it's not been calibrated in a
            few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared to an
            Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.

            Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
            VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.

            Cheers,

            Bill (kd5tfd)

            At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
            >Bill,
            >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB increase
            >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much does
            >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
            >arrive)



          • Bill Tracey
            PowerSDR does allow you to turn off the AGC and set a fixed gain - although I did not do that on this these measurements and don t think it matters as I
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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              PowerSDR does allow you to turn off the AGC and set a fixed gain - although
              I did not do that on this these measurements and don't think it matters as
              I believe the signal strength is computed before the AGC is applied. Next
              time I do some measurements I'll play around and see if the AGC setting
              makes any difference.

              Regards,

              Bill (kd5tfd)


              At 08:16 PM 4/2/2006, Bill Dumke wrote:
              >Bill,
              >
              >So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
              >off the AGC?
              >
              >That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
              >the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.
              >
              >The method you used looks good to me.
              >
              >Bill WB5TCO
            • Ross Stenberg
              In looking through the archives, I m confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures? Thanks and 73,
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                 
                Thanks and 73,
                Ross K9COX
                 


              • KD5NWA
                It s going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with. ... Cecil Bayona KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com I fail to see
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                  It's going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with.

                  At 11:45 AM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
                  In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                   
                  Thanks and 73,
                  Ross K9COX
                   




                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                  Cecil Bayona
                  KD5NWA
                  www.qrpradio.com

                  I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

                • Ross Stenberg
                  Thanks, but how about all versions used with the same 24 bit, good dynamic range, low noise, quality sound card such as the Delta 44 or similar; or any such
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                    Thanks, but how about all versions used with the same 24 bit, good dynamic range, low noise, quality sound card such as the Delta 44 or similar; or any such card as long as we are comparing apples to apples?


                    From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KD5NWA
                    Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 12:51 PM
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] MDS of various versions

                    It's going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with.

                    At 11:45 AM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
                    In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                     
                    Thanks and 73,
                    Ross K9COX
                     




                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                    Cecil Bayona
                    KD5NWA
                    www.qrpradio.com

                    I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

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