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Re: [softrock40] SoftRock V7 beta pics and spectum shots

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  • Bill Dumke
    Also I was wondering how you even did it? Here with my SoftRock 40 and Rocky 1.41, when I connect it to a 50 Ohm load, rather than the antenna with a lot of
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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      Also I was wondering how you even did it? Here with my SoftRock 40 and
      Rocky 1.41, when I connect it to a 50 Ohm load, rather than the antenna
      with a lot of atmospheric noise on 40 meters, I see a lot of spurious
      signals throughout the whole Rocky bandpass. It appears the digital ALC
      in Rocky is causing this. If you turn it the ALC on the front panel of
      Rocky it still does this, although the audio level heard in the speakers
      can now be adjusted manually in that case. Did you find a clean "hole"
      somewhere to get the reading.

      Please describe the test system you were using and how you did it.

      I wish Rocky could be modified to use just a fixed DSP gain as a
      setting, so that Sun and sky noise measurements could be made to check
      the receiver noise temperature of the VHF/UHF & microwave receive
      systems. This is NOW important with SoftRock v7.0 which is intended for
      VHF converters.

      Bill WB5TCO

      FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:

      > Bill,
      > What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
      > increase in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected.
      > How much does mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ
      > (waiting for santa to arrive)
      >
      > */Tony Parks <raparks@...>/* wrote:
      >
      > Very good Bill! Thanks for making the performance data
      > measurements on the
      > v7.0 SoftRock and sharing the nice pictures.
      >
      > All of the v7.0 kit orders have been filled with most of the kits
      > in the
      > mail. Those not in the mail are packed and will go out on April 3.
      >
      > Several orders for built v7.0 receivers will be filled in the next
      > tens
      > days.
      >
      > After filling all orders and setting aside the kits for the build
      > orders, I
      > find I have still three v7.0 kits that can be sold. If you would
      > like one
      > of the three kits, check with me before placing a PayPal order and
      > I will
      > let you know if one of the kits can be yours. I am asking $20 for
      > a v7.0
      > SoftRock kit which includes postage costs.
      >
      > 73,
      > Tony KB9YIG
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Bill Tracey" <kd5tfd@...>
      > To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 7:52 PM
      > Subject: [softrock40] SoftRock V7 beta pics and spectum shots
      >
      >
      > > Got a SoftRock V7 beta built and checked out today - looks pretty
      > > good. MDS of -112 dbm with a Delta 44 and -109 dbm with an
      > Extigy. Pics
      > > and PowerSDR spec shots @
      > > http://ewjt.com/kd5tfd/sdr1k-notebook/sr40/sr7/index.html
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > >
      > > Bill (kd5tfd)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Bill Tracey
      Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement -- they were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk I m
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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        Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement -- they
        were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
        I'm seeing.

        The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
        bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:

        Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
        generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image, calibrate
        level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on signal
        generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
        measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
        strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude level on
        signal generator - this is what I call MDS.

        Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated in a
        few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared to an
        Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.

        Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
        VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.

        Cheers,

        Bill (kd5tfd)

        At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
        >Bill,
        >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB increase
        >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much does
        >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
        >arrive)
      • Bill Dumke
        Bill, So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning off the AGC? That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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          Bill,

          So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
          off the AGC?

          That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
          the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.

          The method you used looks good to me.

          Bill WB5TCO

          Bill Tracey wrote:

          > Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
          > they
          > were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
          > I'm seeing.
          >
          > The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
          > bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
          >
          > Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
          > generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
          > calibrate
          > level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
          > signal
          > generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
          > measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
          > strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
          > level on
          > signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
          >
          > Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
          > in a
          > few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
          > to an
          > Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
          >
          > Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
          > VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Bill (kd5tfd)
          >
          > At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
          > >Bill,
          > >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
          > increase
          > >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
          > does
          > >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
          > >arrive)
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Bill Dumke
          Bill, Which version of PowerSDR were you using? Also have you tried the same measurement on a SoftRock 40 or any of the other SoftRock versions? It would be
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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            Bill,

            Which version of PowerSDR were you using?

            Also have you tried the same measurement on a SoftRock 40 or any of the
            other SoftRock versions?

            It would be interesting to see what results you have on the other bands
            to compare the SoftRock v7.0 performance.

            Bill WB5TCO

            Bill Dumke wrote:

            >Bill,
            >
            >So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
            >off the AGC?
            >
            >That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
            >the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.
            >
            >The method you used looks good to me.
            >
            >Bill WB5TCO
            >
            >Bill Tracey wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >>Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
            >>they
            >>were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
            >>I'm seeing.
            >>
            >>The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
            >>bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
            >>
            >>Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
            >>generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
            >>calibrate
            >>level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
            >>signal
            >>generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
            >>measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
            >>strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
            >>level on
            >>signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
            >>
            >>Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
            >>in a
            >>few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
            >>to an
            >>Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
            >>
            >>Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
            >>VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
            >>
            >>Cheers,
            >>
            >>Bill (kd5tfd)
            >>
            >>At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>>Bill,
            >>>What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
            >>>
            >>>
            >>increase
            >>
            >>
            >>>in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
            >>>
            >>>
            >>does
            >>
            >>
            >>>mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
            >>>arrive)
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>SPONSORED LINKS
            >>Ham radio
            >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ham+radio&w1=Ham+radio&c=1&s=15&.sig=t8IpznzYq-E2LbCrDXaGPQ>
            >>
            >>
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          • FRANCIS CARCIA
            I prefer to monitor recovered audio with an RMS volt meter. fc Bill Dumke wrote: Bill, So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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              I prefer to monitor recovered audio with an RMS volt meter.
              fc

              Bill Dumke <billd@...> wrote:
              Bill,

              So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
              off the AGC?

              That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
              the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.

              The method you used looks good to me.

              Bill WB5TCO

              Bill Tracey wrote:

              > Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement --
              > they
              > were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
              > I'm seeing.
              >
              > The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
              > bandwidth, The measurement is done as follows:
              >
              > Connect SoftRock and sound card. Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
              > generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock. Null image,
              > calibrate
              > level. Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth. Turn off RF on
              > signal
              > generator. Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
              > measurement A. Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
              > strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A. Note amplitude
              > level on
              > signal generator - this is what I call MDS.
              >
              > Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b -- it's not been calibrated
              > in a
              > few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared
              > to an
              > Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.
              >
              > Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
              > VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Bill (kd5tfd)
              >
              > At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
              > >Bill,
              > >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB
              > increase
              > >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much
              > does
              > >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
              > >arrive)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              > Ham radio
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > * Visit your group "softrock40
              > " on the web.
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > softrock40-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
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            • FRANCIS CARCIA
              -109 dBM MDS is not that great for above 20 meter work. I wonder if the op amp gain needs to increase. Does the background noise come up on the spectrum
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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                -109 dBM MDS is not that great for above 20 meter work. I wonder if the op amp gain needs to increase. Does the background noise come up on the spectrum display when the V7 is connected without an antenna. Do you know what level input saturates the sound card making spure. IE dynamic range? I use a pair of HP8640Bs myself.
                I like to see a mds lower than -125 dBm above 14 MHz. I usually set a RA6830 to -130 dBM and that has just enough MDS for 10 meters. Might need a preamplifier...fc

                Bill Tracey <kd5tfd@...> wrote:
                Actually the spectrum screen shots do not match the MDS measurement -- they
                were for a -54 dbm input, just trying to show the level of spurs and gunk
                I'm seeing.

                The MDS definition I'm using is 3 db above the noise floor in a 500 hz
                bandwidth,  The measurement is done as follows:

                Connect SoftRock and sound card.  Apply -60 dbm signal from signal
                generator approx 12 khz above osc freq of SoftRock.   Null image, calibrate
                level.  Set PowerSDR for CW mode, 500 hz bandwidth.  Turn off RF on signal
                generator.  Note avg singal strength reading on S Meter - call this
                measurement A.  Turn on signal generator - adjust level until avg signal
                strength on S meter reads 3db above measurement A.  Note amplitude level on
                signal generator - this is what I call MDS.

                Signal generator I'm using is an HP 8656b  -- it's not been calibrated in a
                few years,. however does seem to be accurate for level when compared to an
                Elecraft XG2 which is the closest thing I've got to a calibrated level.

                Credit for the methodology of doing the measurement goes to Phil Harman -
                VK6APH who explained to me how to do it.

                Cheers,

                Bill (kd5tfd)

                At 07:37 PM 4/2/2006, you wrote:
                >Bill,
                >What do you consider MDS. We should work to a standard like 3 dB increase
                >in audio or 10 dB S+N/N also I see you have 10 KHz selected. How much does
                >mds improve with CW filter selected? frank WA1GFZ (waiting for santa to
                >arrive)



              • Bill Tracey
                PowerSDR does allow you to turn off the AGC and set a fixed gain - although I did not do that on this these measurements and don t think it matters as I
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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                  PowerSDR does allow you to turn off the AGC and set a fixed gain - although
                  I did not do that on this these measurements and don't think it matters as
                  I believe the signal strength is computed before the AGC is applied. Next
                  time I do some measurements I'll play around and see if the AGC setting
                  makes any difference.

                  Regards,

                  Bill (kd5tfd)


                  At 08:16 PM 4/2/2006, Bill Dumke wrote:
                  >Bill,
                  >
                  >So the PowerSDR software will allow for a fixed system gain, by turning
                  >off the AGC?
                  >
                  >That makes it more appropriate for us weak signal types, as opposed to
                  >the current version of Rocky, for looking at Sun to Sky noise temperature.
                  >
                  >The method you used looks good to me.
                  >
                  >Bill WB5TCO
                • Ross Stenberg
                  In looking through the archives, I m confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures? Thanks and 73,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                    In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                     
                    Thanks and 73,
                    Ross K9COX
                     


                  • KD5NWA
                    It s going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with. ... Cecil Bayona KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com I fail to see
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                      It's going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with.

                      At 11:45 AM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
                      In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                       
                      Thanks and 73,
                      Ross K9COX
                       




                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                      Cecil Bayona
                      KD5NWA
                      www.qrpradio.com

                      I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

                    • Ross Stenberg
                      Thanks, but how about all versions used with the same 24 bit, good dynamic range, low noise, quality sound card such as the Delta 44 or similar; or any such
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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                        Thanks, but how about all versions used with the same 24 bit, good dynamic range, low noise, quality sound card such as the Delta 44 or similar; or any such card as long as we are comparing apples to apples?


                        From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KD5NWA
                        Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 12:51 PM
                        To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] MDS of various versions

                        It's going to vary according to what sound card, and the bit resolution you take the measurement with.

                        At 11:45 AM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
                        In looking through the archives, I'm confused to the MDS of v4 5,6,and 7 as measured with the same methodology. Does anyone have those figures?
                         
                        Thanks and 73,
                        Ross K9COX
                         




                        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                        Cecil Bayona
                        KD5NWA
                        www.qrpradio.com

                        I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

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