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Re: [softrock40] soldering magnet wire

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  • R R Robson
    Art: Most of the time, I have tried to scrape off the enamel (with emery paper or an exacto knife). Recently, I discovered a better way to tin the leads. I
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 3, 2009
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      Art:
       
      Most of the time, I have tried to scrape off the enamel (with emery paper or an exacto knife). 
       
      Recently, I discovered a better way to tin the leads.  I "dip" the leads into my jar of flux paste, liberally coating the insulated wire with flux.  Then I apply the traditional glob of solder to a hot iron tip and run the flux-coated leads through the glob, refreshing the glob as necessary.  After a couple of passes, I end up with a very nicely tinned lead, without all of the debris that seems to go along with more traditional tinning methods.  The flux seems to facilitate the removal of the enamel much more easily than other methods.
       
      TX ES 73
      DE Robby WB5RVZ
      NAQCC #2646

      From: Art
      Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:33 PM
      Subject: [softrock40] soldering magnet wire

      Hi,

      I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
      product) magnet wire.

      I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
      easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
      printed circuit boards.

      However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
      some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
      soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
      some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
      around for 30 years in my toolbox.

      To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
      burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
      through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
      to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
      thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
      copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
      marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.

      I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
      bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
      solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
      surprisingly little heat is used.

      Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
      plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
      regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?

      Thanks,

      Art

    • Dale J. Robertson
      Art, currently there are lots of different types of magnet wire produced. Lots are spec d as solderable with an accompanying solder temperature requirement.
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 3, 2009
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        Art,
        currently there are lots of different types of magnet wire produced.
        Lots are spec'd as "solderable" with an accompanying solder temperature requirement. Some specify that the insulation must be removed "mechanically"
        heres a link to one suppliers listing of the different magnet wire insulations they use
        http://www.mwswire.com/inschar.htm
        It's not so easy to determine from surplus and discount suppliers exactly what you are getting.
        Dale

        Art wrote:

        Hi,

        I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
        product) magnet wire.

        I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
        easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
        printed circuit boards.

        However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
        some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
        soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
        some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
        around for 30 years in my toolbox.

        To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
        burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
        through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
        to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
        thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
        copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
        marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.

        I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
        bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
        solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
        surprisingly little heat is used.

        Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
        plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
        regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?

        Thanks,

        Art


      • Neil Douglas
        Art, A lot of the modern magnet wires are insulated with polyurethane solder through enamel. This will solder without any mechanical preparation - you need a
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 3, 2009
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          Art,

           

          A lot of the modern magnet wires are insulated with polyurethane solder through enamel.

           

          This will solder without any mechanical preparation – you need a soldering temperature of 700oF,

          this is the temperature of controlled irons used with standard tin / lead solder.

           

          A company I worked for many years ago soldered 0.0025 inch wire with poly enamel without problem – you would not want to attempt to have to mechanically prepare wire of that diameter.

           

          Here in the U.K. polyurethane coated wire normally has pink or clear enamel although other colours are available.

           

          The unfriendly enamel is usually a dark brown colour.

           

           

          Regards

           

          NeilD

          G4SHJ


          From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto: softrock40@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Art
          Sent: 03 March 2009 19:34
          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [softrock40] soldering magnet wire

           

          Hi,

          I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
          product) magnet wire.

          I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
          easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
          printed circuit boards.

          However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
          some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
          soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
          some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
          around for 30 years in my toolbox.

          To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
          burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
          through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
          to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
          thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
          copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
          marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.

          I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
          bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
          solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
          surprisingly little heat is used.

          Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
          plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
          regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?

          Thanks,

          Art

        • Brian Hall
          Thermaleze magnet wire is pretty forgiving, but I still tin the leads prior to insertion into the circuit. The method I use is to apply flux w/ a flux pen
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 3, 2009
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            "Thermaleze" magnet wire is pretty forgiving, but I still tin the leads prior to insertion into the circuit.  The method I use is to apply flux w/ a flux pen (I pinch the wire between my finger and the flux pen tip), then using a blob of solder on the tip of my iron, I immerse the wire in the blob, the enamel burns off and floats to the top of the blob as the iron tip travels to the end of the wire.

            The few times I tried to cut corners, I ended up rewinding the toroid after I couldn't achieve a good electrical connection (and after I'd clipped off the excess lead length).  If you decide to try this method, I strongly suggest verifiying continuity (and isolation from adjacent turns) before clipping the excess.

            Just my 2 cents...

            72,
            Brian AC7NA


            From: Art <KY1K@...>
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:33:55 AM
            Subject: [softrock40] soldering magnet wire

            Hi,

            I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
            product) magnet wire.

            I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
            easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
            printed circuit boards.

            However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
            some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
            soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
            some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
            around for 30 years in my toolbox.

            To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
            burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
            through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
            to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
            thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
            copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
            marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.

            I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
            bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
            solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
            surprisingly little heat is used.

            Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
            plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
            regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?

            Thanks,

            Art


          • Sid Boyce
            One method I used to employ that s very quick .... using a lit match to burn off the insulation, then use emery cloth to easily remove the residue. 73 ... Sid.
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 3, 2009
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              One method I used to employ that's very quick .... using a lit match to
              burn off the insulation, then use emery cloth to easily remove the residue.
              73 ... Sid.

              R R Robson wrote:
              >
              >
              > Art:
              >
              > Most of the time, I have tried to scrape off the enamel (with emery
              > paper or an exacto knife).
              >
              > Recently, I discovered a better way to tin the leads. I "dip" the leads
              > into my jar of flux paste, liberally coating the insulated wire with
              > flux. Then I apply the traditional glob of solder to a hot iron tip and
              > run the flux-coated leads through the glob, refreshing the glob as
              > necessary. After a couple of passes, I end up with a very nicely tinned
              > lead, without all of the debris that seems to go along with more
              > traditional tinning methods. The flux seems to facilitate the removal
              > of the enamel much more easily than other methods.
              >
              > TX ES 73
              > DE Robby WB5RVZ
              > NAQCC #2646
              >
              > *From:* Art <mailto:KY1K@...>
              > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:33 PM
              > *To:* softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
              > *Subject:* [softrock40] soldering magnet wire
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
              > product) magnet wire.
              >
              > I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
              > easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
              > printed circuit boards.
              >
              > However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
              > some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
              > soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
              > some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
              > around for 30 years in my toolbox.
              >
              > To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
              > burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
              > through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
              > to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
              > thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
              > copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
              > marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.
              >
              > I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
              > bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
              > solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
              > surprisingly little heat is used.
              >
              > Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
              > plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
              > regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Art
              >


              --
              Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
              Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              Specialist, Cricket Coach
              Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
            • Chris Albertson
              ... I think it depends on the wire. If you read the specs on the manufacturer s web site you find some of it is covered with insulation that is not going to
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 4, 2009
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                > Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
                > plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
                > regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?

                I think it depends on the wire. If you read the specs on the
                manufacturer's web site you find some of it is covered with insulation
                that is not going to burn off even at the temperature of molten
                solder. This stuff is designed for winding motors that will run hot
                and need to have a long life. I think other wire is designed
                specifically to be soldered to PCBs as you did.

                The last wire I used must have been the high temperature stuff. The
                insulation would not melt off. I don't like mechanically scraping it
                off so I tried some paint remover on a q-tip. That worked very well.
                I let the paint remover sit for a few minutes then wiped it off.



                --
                =====
                Chris Albertson
                Redondo Beach, California
              • nj2e
                I was looking at Bitx20 kits on the Hendricks QRP kit site and found a construction hit section that a solder pot suggestion. I haven t tried it yet, but looks
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 4, 2009
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                  I was looking at Bitx20 kits on the Hendricks QRP kit site
                  and found a construction hit section that a solder pot suggestion.
                  I haven't tried it yet, but looks promising. Regards, Don NJ2E

                  http://www.qrpkits.com




                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Art <KY1K@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
                  > product) magnet wire.
                  >
                  > I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
                  > easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
                  > printed circuit boards.
                  >
                  > However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
                  > some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
                  > soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
                  > some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
                  > around for 30 years in my toolbox.
                  >
                  > To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
                  > burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
                  > through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
                  > to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
                  > thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
                  > copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
                  > marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.
                  >
                  > I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
                  > bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
                  > solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
                  > surprisingly little heat is used.
                  >
                  > Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
                  > plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
                  > regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Art
                  >
                • Henk Keppel
                  Hello fellow soderers. I perceive that talking writing and reading about magnet wire consumes much more time then just scratching it bare or whatever methode
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 4, 2009
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                    Hello fellow soderers.
                    I perceive that talking writing and reading about magnet wire consumes much more time then just scratching it bare or whatever methode you use to solder it.
                    Have fun, Henk, PA0KEP.


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                  • John Nordlund
                    I a production environment, enameled wire is often dipped in a solder pot to remove the insulation prior to soldering. The flux/solder blob method described
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      I a production environment, enameled wire is often dipped in a solder pot to remove the insulation prior to soldering.

                      The flux/solder blob method described does about the same job.


                      73 de AD5FU




                      Sid Boyce wrote:

                      One method I used to employ that's very quick .... using a lit match to
                      burn off the insulation, then use emery cloth to easily remove the residue.
                      73 ... Sid.

                      R R Robson wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Art:
                      >
                      > Most of the time, I have tried to scrape off the enamel (with emery
                      > paper or an exacto knife).
                      >
                      > Recently, I discovered a better way to tin the leads. I "dip" the leads
                      > into my jar of flux paste, liberally coating the insulated wire with
                      > flux. Then I apply the traditional glob of solder to a hot iron tip and
                      > run the flux-coated leads through the glob, refreshing the glob as
                      > necessary. After a couple of passes, I end up with a very nicely tinned
                      > lead, without all of the debris that seems to go along with more
                      > traditional tinning methods. The flux seems to facilitate the removal
                      > of the enamel much more easily than other methods.
                      >
                      > TX ES 73
                      > DE Robby WB5RVZ
                      > NAQCC #2646
                      >
                      > *From:* Art <mailto:KY1K@myfairpoint. net>
                      > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:33 PM
                      > *To:* softrock40@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:softrock40@yahoogro ups.com>
                      > *Subject:* [softrock40] soldering magnet wire
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
                      > product) magnet wire.
                      >
                      > I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
                      > easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
                      > printed circuit boards.
                      >
                      > However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
                      > some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
                      > soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
                      > some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
                      > around for 30 years in my toolbox.
                      >
                      > To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
                      > burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
                      > through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
                      > to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
                      > thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
                      > copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
                      > marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.
                      >
                      > I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
                      > bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
                      > solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
                      > surprisingly little heat is used.
                      >
                      > Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
                      > plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
                      > regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as proper?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Art
                      >

                      --
                      Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                      Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                      Specialist, Cricket Coach
                      Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks

                    • wa3drc_18954
                      I use this method too. Just turn the temp up a bit an my hakko and load the tip w/ some solder and it melts right off. then a few passes w/ a clean tip to
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 5, 2009
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                        I use this method too. Just turn the temp up a bit an my hakko and load the tip w/ some solder and it melts right off. then a few passes w/ a "clean" tip to clean up any mess. READY TO GO after that! turn down the temp.

                        Ed wa3drc

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Nordlund <jnordlund@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I a production environment, enameled wire is often dipped in a solder
                        > pot to remove the insulation prior to soldering.
                        >
                        > The flux/solder blob method described does about the same job.
                        >
                        >
                        > 73 de AD5FU
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Sid Boyce wrote:
                        > >
                        > > One method I used to employ that's very quick .... using a lit match to
                        > > burn off the insulation, then use emery cloth to easily remove the
                        > > residue.
                        > > 73 ... Sid.
                        > >
                        > > R R Robson wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Art:
                        > > >
                        > > > Most of the time, I have tried to scrape off the enamel (with emery
                        > > > paper or an exacto knife).
                        > > >
                        > > > Recently, I discovered a better way to tin the leads. I "dip" the leads
                        > > > into my jar of flux paste, liberally coating the insulated wire with
                        > > > flux. Then I apply the traditional glob of solder to a hot iron tip and
                        > > > run the flux-coated leads through the glob, refreshing the glob as
                        > > > necessary. After a couple of passes, I end up with a very nicely tinned
                        > > > lead, without all of the debris that seems to go along with more
                        > > > traditional tinning methods. The flux seems to facilitate the removal
                        > > > of the enamel much more easily than other methods.
                        > > >
                        > > > TX ES 73
                        > > > DE Robby WB5RVZ
                        > > > NAQCC #2646
                        > > >
                        > > > *From:* Art <mailto:KY1K@...
                        > > <mailto:KY1K%40myfairpoint.net>>
                        > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:33 PM
                        > > > *To:* softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > <mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        > > > *Subject:* [softrock40] soldering magnet wire
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi,
                        > > >
                        > > > I've been playing with some late model (fully spec'd, current
                        > > > product) magnet wire.
                        > > >
                        > > > I had been thinking I would want to build a small solder pot to
                        > > > easily (pre) tin the ends of the magnet wire for easy soldering into
                        > > > printed circuit boards.
                        > > >
                        > > > However, I inserted the wire through some plated through boles in
                        > > > some used (scrap) printed circuit boards (for testing purposes). I
                        > > > soldered the wires in using lots of heat, a clean soldering tip and
                        > > > some fresh solder (no clean flux), not solder that has been laying
                        > > > around for 30 years in my toolbox.
                        > > >
                        > > > To my surprise, the magnet wire soldered in perfectly. The insulation
                        > > > burned away leaving a ring of solder the same thickness as the plated
                        > > > through hole on the pcb. I autopsied several of these apparent copper
                        > > > to solder mating surfaces with a 100X microscope while removing very
                        > > > thin slices of solder from the tinned wire, until the solder to
                        > > > copper interface was revealed. The results show solid tinning, not a
                        > > > marginal or cosmetic looking copper to solder interface.
                        > > >
                        > > > I did this with 3 single strand magnet wire, with bifilar (parallel
                        > > > bonded) magnet wore and with twisted trifilar magnet wire. All of the
                        > > > solder to copper junctions look solid under the microscope, even when
                        > > > surprisingly little heat is used.
                        > > >
                        > > > Is it common practice today to insert magnet wire directly into a
                        > > > plated through hole on a PCB and solder it just as though it was
                        > > > regular (bare copper) wire??? Is the practice generally accepted as
                        > > proper?
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks,
                        > > >
                        > > > Art
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                        > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                        > > Specialist, Cricket Coach
                        > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
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