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Re: [softrock40] Re: feeling overwhelmed

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  • k5nwa
    ... Maybe, actually I ve been thinking of doing it again, the problem is time, and I m not lifting a finger until I figure a way to be able to back it up and
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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      At 09:01 AM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
      >You'll get over it and write a nice Wiki anew, for your peace of mind
      >and for the benefit
      >of this honorable forrum.
      >Thanks OM Steve
      >73
      >Michael 4X4KF
      >

      Maybe, actually I've been thinking of doing it again, the problem is
      time, and I'm not lifting a finger until I figure a way to be able to
      back it up and restore the wiki successfully. There were two backups,
      one of the Program and init files , and one of the MySQL databases, I
      think the problem is that the two backups didn't connect to each
      other properly, you could individually address the pages but they
      would refuse to link together so one article led to another.

      I'm a believer in the fun first approach and it was a big battle to
      decide what to put in, getting illustrations then putting it all
      together, and I have forgotten the details of what was chosen so it's
      basically a start from scratch project but unfortunately I have very
      little free time.



      Cecil
      K5NWA
      www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

      "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
    • Bryan
      Why can t/didn t you have a back up on your PC s harddrive? ... mind ... is ... to ... backups, ... I ... it s ... very
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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        Why can't/didn't you have a back up on your PC's harddrive?


        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
        >
        > At 09:01 AM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
        > >You'll get over it and write a nice Wiki anew, for your peace of
        mind
        > >and for the benefit
        > >of this honorable forrum.
        > >Thanks OM Steve
        > >73
        > >Michael 4X4KF
        > >
        >
        > Maybe, actually I've been thinking of doing it again, the problem
        is
        > time, and I'm not lifting a finger until I figure a way to be able
        to
        > back it up and restore the wiki successfully. There were two
        backups,
        > one of the Program and init files , and one of the MySQL databases,
        I
        > think the problem is that the two backups didn't connect to each
        > other properly, you could individually address the pages but they
        > would refuse to link together so one article led to another.
        >
        > I'm a believer in the fun first approach and it was a big battle to
        > decide what to put in, getting illustrations then putting it all
        > together, and I have forgotten the details of what was chosen so
        it's
        > basically a start from scratch project but unfortunately I have
        very
        > little free time.
        >
        >
        >
        > Cecil
        > K5NWA
        > www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com
        >
        > "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
        >
      • Chris Albertson
        ... Why not let some one else do all the work for you? Anyone (This means ANY of us.) that wants to set up a Wiki can get free space on
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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          > Maybe, actually I've been thinking of doing it again, the problem is
          > time, and I'm not lifting a finger until I figure a way to be able to
          > back it up and restore the wiki successfully.

          Why not let some one else do all the work for you?
          Anyone (This means ANY of us.) that wants to set up a
          Wiki can get free space on http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia

          If you want one, don't wait for "some one" to set one up. Just do it.
          Ok so the technical issued are solved. The other part is harder.
          With Wikis if they are to be self sustaining they have to come out
          on day zero with enough good content to make reader want to bookmark
          them and come back.

          --
          =====
          Chris Albertson
          Redondo Beach, California
        • Chris Albertson
          ... The problem is with the PC s file system. What you need is a snapshot in time but your typical backup software only copies one file at a time and this
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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            On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Bryan <bryanshq@...> wrote:
            > Why can't/didn't you have a back up on your PC's hard drive?

            The problem is with the PC's file system. What you need is a "snapshot
            in time" but your typical backup software only copies one file at a time and
            this takes HOURS on a large disk. Stuff changes while the backup is in progress
            You can address this my shutting down the system for several hours a day
            but that is not a nice thing to do to a public Wiki.

            There are file systems that allow you to take "point in time"
            snapshots of a running
            production server. But this means some study and reading and learning to use
            something new. Solaris' "ZFS" is a good example. It's free

            The other way people backup these things is to design the application (the wiki
            server software) to store _everything_ inside a relational DBMS. These kinds of
            databases allow the user to define what's known as a "transaction".
            All commands
            done inside a transaction are as if they are done at one "atomic" point in time.

            Once you have a DBMS that supports transactions (MySQL may not, but all the
            bigger ones do.) you can either dump all of the tables (within a transaction) or
            periodically "sync" one DBMS server to a backup server or set of backup servers.
            (The later is a common commercial solution because recovery does not require
            a lengthy restore operation.)

            To use a mechanical anaalogy, let's say you recorded to location of
            all the parts
            in an engine. You note that a piston is at the top of it's stoke but
            then when you
            get around to recording the position of the crankshaft it has moved.
            So if you try
            to re-construct from your notes the parts will not fit. So you need
            to stop it from
            running wich you may not want to do. Computer scientist solved this problem
            decades ago when they invented to concept of a "transaction". this concept has
            ben applied to both databases and file systems. So now, anyone can have
            "point in time" self consistent backup if they based there system on
            one of these
            databases or file systems.

            =====
            Chris Albertson
            Redondo Beach, California
          • k5nwa
            ... Hmm, I said I did have backups but when restored it would not link the articles correctly. And you can t test it on your PC because it requires Apache, PHP
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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              At 12:25 PM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
              >Why can't/didn't you have a back up on your PC's harddrive?

              Hmm, I said I did have backups but when restored it would not link
              the articles correctly. And you can't test it on your PC because it
              requires Apache, PHP V5.2, and MySQL running besides the wiki
              software, that would pretty much ruin a PC for use with SDR work.

              Eventually I'll have one setup to do that, dedicated for that purpose
              because I want to write some web based applications but it's one more
              PC and I already have too many. I have an older dual 2GHz G4 Mac that
              is so quiet you don't even know it's on and it is extremely reliable,
              that would be perfect for the task.



              Cecil
              K5NWA
              www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

              "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
            • k5nwa
              ... Setting up a wiki is not difficult, the issue was after it was delete, the backups did not restore a working wiki, that is what I need to test and make
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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                At 02:41 PM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
                >Why not let some one else do all the work for you?
                >Anyone (This means ANY of us.) that wants to set up a
                >Wiki can get free space on http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia
                >
                >If you want one, don't wait for "some one" to set one up. Just do it.
                >Ok so the technical issued are solved. The other part is harder.
                >With Wikis if they are to be self sustaining they have to come out
                >on day zero with enough good content to make reader want to bookmark
                >them and come back.
                >
                >--
                >=====
                >Chris Albertson
                >Redondo Beach, California

                Setting up a wiki is not difficult, the issue was after it was
                delete, the backups did not restore a working wiki, that is what I
                need to test and make sure that the backups restore correctly before
                I invest countless hours in restoring the contents. I found how they
                gained access and that is no longer present but you are never 100%
                sure that you are secure.

                I already have a wiki setup, it only takes a few minutes, the
                contents however takes a long time to re-enter, and it this case I
                will need to figure out what information is needed, mind you the
                second time is much easier. Right now, it's not even secured, I have
                not bothered since I have no content.
                < http://wiki.softrockradio.org/index.php?title=Main_Page >

                With a public wiki I have no control over who has access, and some
                have already proven that they will attempt to ruin it if they can get a login.

                I have offered many times to give volunteers enhanced access to the
                site or wiki but so far no one has stepped up to the plate, so it's
                just me, myself and I for a total of three volunteers.


                Cecil
                K5NWA
                www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
              • k5nwa
                ... The server is North of San Francisco somewhere, backup of the Database take less than 2 minutes and can be done while the site is live, backup of the
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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                  At 03:07 PM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
                  >On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Bryan <bryanshq@...> wrote:
                  > > Why can't/didn't you have a back up on your PC's hard drive?
                  >
                  >The problem is with the PC's file system. What you need is a "snapshot
                  >in time" but your typical backup software only copies one file at a time and
                  >this takes HOURS on a large disk. Stuff changes while the backup is
                  >in progress
                  >You can address this my shutting down the system for several hours a day
                  >but that is not a nice thing to do to a public Wiki.

                  The "server" is North of San Francisco somewhere, backup of the
                  Database take less than 2 minutes and can be done while the site is
                  live, backup of the application takes about 30 minutes (static files)
                  but there are all sorts of options to the SQL backup and the options
                  that work with the main site which is also contained in a MySQL
                  database are apparently not appropriate to properly backup the wiki
                  database, the links were broken so the backup was useless. Its a time
                  consuming thing to do the research to find what options are needed
                  during the backup and then test it and make sure it works before
                  starting to put the content back. Right now I have very limited free
                  time available to me.



                  Cecil
                  K5NWA
                  www.softrockradio.org www.qrpradio.com

                  "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                • ken@w2krh.com
                  Cecil, Your comment about needing Apache, PHP and MySQL on your PC is easily answered by installing XAMPP available from
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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                    Cecil,

                    Your comment about needing Apache, PHP and MySQL on your PC is
                    easily answered by installing XAMPP available from

                    http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html

                    which has all 3 programs integrated into one easy install.
                    I use this myself when working on the site I maintain.

                    If you have any questions please contact me.

                    73,
                    Ken
                    W2KRH

                    ken at W2krh dot com
                  • Michael Barak
                    Good luck
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 31, 2008
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                      Good luck

                      k5nwa wrote:
                      At 12:25 PM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
                        
                      Why can't/didn't you have a back up on your PC's harddrive?
                          
                      Hmm, I said I did have backups but when restored it would not link 
                      the articles correctly. And you can't test it on your PC because it 
                      requires Apache, PHP V5.2, and MySQL running besides the wiki 
                      software, that would pretty much ruin a PC for use with SDR work.
                      
                      Eventually I'll have one setup to do that, dedicated for that purpose 
                      because I want to write some web based applications but it's one more 
                      PC and I already have too many. I have an older dual 2GHz G4 Mac that 
                      is so quiet you don't even know it's on and it is extremely reliable, 
                      that would be perfect for the task.
                      
                      
                      
                      Cecil
                      K5NWA
                      www.softrockradio.org  www.qrpradio.com
                      
                      "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light." 
                      
                      
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                    • drmail377
                      Try WOS, Webserver on a Stick as a XAMPP alternative? http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 1 3:20 AM
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                        Try WOS, Webserver on a Stick as a XAMPP alternative?

                        http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, ken@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Cecil,
                        >
                        > Your comment about needing Apache, PHP and MySQL on your PC is
                        > easily answered by installing XAMPP available from
                        >
                        > http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html
                        >
                        > which has all 3 programs integrated into one easy install.
                        > I use this myself when working on the site I maintain.
                        >
                        > If you have any questions please contact me.
                        >
                        > 73,
                        > Ken
                        > W2KRH
                        >
                        > ken at W2krh dot com
                        >
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