## Re: Making a SoftRock V6 and similar Multiband HF SDR RX

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• ... you ... order ... loss of ... Hi Tom, that s right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is around -5dB or less.
Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 2007
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--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "tom_iphi" <iphi@...> wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> > The plot is simple ... hi... well in the bottom horizontal line
you
> > have the input power in dBm, while on the vertical the IMD 3rd
order
> > values in dBm. From there you can calculate the IP3.
>
> From that I can only calculate the IP3 if I know the conversion
loss of
> the mixer.
> Example:
> Say 10dBm input power, 6dB conversion loss
> => 4dBm output power
> IMD3 at -50dBm
> => IMD3 at -54dBc on output
> => Input IP3 = 10dBm +54/2dBm = 37dBm
>
> correct?
>
> Tom DG8SAQ
>

Hi Tom,

that's right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is
around -5dB or less. <there is a configuration that may increase CL
up to < -7dBm with generally an increase in IP3.

"Voices" are saying that the H-Mode Mixer has been integrated in a
new military receiver ... certainly the G3SBI 3 transformers
version ... imagine the military winding the I7SWX special
transformer ... it will never work ...hi !

73

Gian
I7SWX
• I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode mixer to generate DSB. sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc ... you ... order ... loss of
Message 2 of 25 , May 1, 2007
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I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode mixer to generate DSB.
sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc

Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "tom_iphi" <iphi@...> wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> > The plot is simple ... hi... well in the bottom horizontal line
you
> > have the input power in dBm, while on the vertical the IMD 3rd
order
> > values in dBm. From there you can calculate the IP3.
>
> From that I can only calculate the IP3 if I know the conversion
loss of
> the mixer.
> Example:
> Say 10dBm input power, 6dB conversion loss
> => 4dBm output power
> IMD3 at -50dBm
> => IMD3 at -54dBc on output
> => Input IP3 = 10dBm +54/2dBm = 37dBm
>
> correct?
>
> Tom DG8SAQ
>

Hi Tom,

that's right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is
around -5dB or less. <there is a configuration that may increase CL
up to < -7dBm with generally an increase in IP3.

"Voices" are saying that the H-Mode Mixer has been integrated in a
new military receiver ... certainly the G3SBI 3 transformers
version ... imagine the military winding the I7SWX special
transformer ... it will never work ...hi !

73

Gian
I7SWX

• ... mixer to generate DSB. ... Hi Francis, thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be interesting to see it. My feeling is that such
Message 3 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
mixer to generate DSB.
> sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
>

Hi Francis,

thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
interesting to see it.

My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This is
done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions were
only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two transformers.

73

Gian
I7SWX
• Hi Gian, Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr. addition fifteen 1959 and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes) used
Message 4 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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Hi Gian,
Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr. addition fifteen 1959
and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes) used to generate SSB.
No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard to beat!  frank wa1gfz

Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
mixer to generate DSB.
> sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
>

Hi Francis,

thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
interesting to see it.

My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This is
done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions were
only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two transformers.

73

Gian
I7SWX

• ... addition fifteen 1959 ... used to generate SSB. ... always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes. ... new. G3SBI did a good job on this
Message 5 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gian,
> Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
> and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
used to generate SSB.
> No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
> The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
to beat! frank wa1gfz

HI Frank,

thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959 on
this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
land so I connot visit any library.

It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
the file in files.

Thanks and 73

Gian
I7SWX

>
> Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
> --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
<carcia@> wrote:
> >
> > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
> mixer to generate DSB.
> > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
> >
>
> Hi Francis,
>
> thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
> interesting to see it.
>
> My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
> mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
> The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
> in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This
is
> done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
were
> only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
> time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
transformers.
>
> 73
>
> Gian
> I7SWX
>
Message 6 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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Hi Gian,

Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gian,
> Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
> and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
used to generate SSB.
> No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
> The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
to beat! frank wa1gfz

HI Frank,

thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959 on
this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
land so I connot visit any library.

It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
the file in files.

Thanks and 73

Gian
I7SWX

>
> Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
> --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
<carcia@> wrote:
> >
> > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
> mixer to generate DSB.
> > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
> >
>
> Hi Francis,
>
> thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
> interesting to see it.
>
> My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
> mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
> The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
> in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This
is
> done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
were
> only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
> time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
transformers.
>
> 73
>
> Gian
> I7SWX
>

• ... It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the handbook. I will scan those pages for you. 73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
Message 7 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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> Giancarlo wrote:
>
> thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ...
> but where
> do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook
> date 1959 on
> this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling
> anymore to W-
> land so I connot visit any library.

It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the
handbook. I will scan those pages for you.

73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
• Hi Frank, thanks for the dowloading address. I have found the ARRL 1959 edition not Bill Orr Handbook. 73 Gian I7SWX ... on ... be ... design ... This
Message 8 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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Hi Frank,

not Bill Orr Handbook.

73

Gian
I7SWX

--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/books.htm
>
> Hi Gian,
>
> Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
> --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
<carcia@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gian,
> > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
> > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
> used to generate SSB.
> > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
> always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
> > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
> new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
> to beat! frank wa1gfz
>
> HI Frank,
>
> thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
> do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959
on
> this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
> land so I connot visit any library.
>
> It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
> the file in files.
>
> Thanks and 73
>
> Gian
> I7SWX
>
> >
> > Giancarlo <i7swx@> wrote:
> > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
> <carcia@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
> > mixer to generate DSB.
> > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
> > >
> >
> > Hi Francis,
> >
> > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would
be
> > interesting to see it.
> >
> > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
> > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
> > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner
design
> > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one.
This
> is
> > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
> were
> > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
> > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
> transformers.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Gian
> > I7SWX
> >
>
• ... Hi Lawrence, thanks if it is not a problem. Was your long time ago (1996?) trip to VE good? 73 Gian I7SWX
Message 9 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence" <lawrence@...> wrote:
>
> > Giancarlo wrote:
> >
> > thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ...
> > but where
> > do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook
> > date 1959 on
> > this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling
> > anymore to W-
> > land so I connot visit any library.
>
> It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the
> handbook. I will scan those pages for you.
>
> 73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
>
Hi Lawrence,

thanks if it is not a problem.

Was your long time ago (1996?) trip to VE good?

73

Gian
I7SWX
• Gian, You misread it. Check again. it was a bigger seller than the ARRL handbook Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible for them
Message 10 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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Gian,
You misread it. Check again. "it was a bigger seller than the ARRL handbook"
Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast Handbook. fc

Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
Hi Frank,

not Bill Orr Handbook.

73

Gian
I7SWX

--- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.tech- systems-labs. com/books. htm
>
> Hi Gian,
>
> Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
> --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
<carcia@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gian,
> > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
> > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
> used to generate SSB.
> > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
> always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
> > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
> new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
> to beat! frank wa1gfz
>
> HI Frank,
>
> thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
> do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959
on
> this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
> land so I connot visit any library.
>
> It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
> the file in files.
>
> Thanks and 73
>
> Gian
> I7SWX
>
> >
> > Giancarlo <i7swx@> wrote:
> > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
> <carcia@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
> > mixer to generate DSB.
> > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
> > >
> >
> > Hi Francis,
> >
> > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would
be
> > interesting to see it.
> >
> > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
> > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
> > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner
design
> > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one.
This
> is
> > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
> were
> > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
> > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
> transformers.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Gian
> > I7SWX
> >
>

• ... ARRL handbook ... for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast Handbook. fc ... edition ... Hi Frank, thanks... I found the book.
Message 11 of 25 , May 4, 2007
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--- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
>
> Gian,
> You misread it. Check again. "it was a bigger seller than the
ARRL handbook"
> Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible
for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast
Handbook. fc
>
> Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
edition
> not Bill Orr Handbook.
>
> 73
>
> Gian
> I7SWX
>
>

Hi Frank,

thanks... I found the book.

73
Gian
I7SWX
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