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Re: Making a SoftRock V6 and similar Multiband HF SDR RX

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  • Giancarlo
    ... you ... order ... loss of ... Hi Tom, that s right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is around -5dB or less.
    Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 2007
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      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "tom_iphi" <iphi@...> wrote:
      >
      > P.S.
      >
      > > The plot is simple ... hi... well in the bottom horizontal line
      you
      > > have the input power in dBm, while on the vertical the IMD 3rd
      order
      > > values in dBm. From there you can calculate the IP3.
      >
      > From that I can only calculate the IP3 if I know the conversion
      loss of
      > the mixer.
      > Example:
      > Say 10dBm input power, 6dB conversion loss
      > => 4dBm output power
      > IMD3 at -50dBm
      > => IMD3 at -54dBc on output
      > => Input IP3 = 10dBm +54/2dBm = 37dBm
      >
      > correct?
      >
      > Tom DG8SAQ
      >

      Hi Tom,

      that's right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is
      around -5dB or less. <there is a configuration that may increase CL
      up to < -7dBm with generally an increase in IP3.

      "Voices" are saying that the H-Mode Mixer has been integrated in a
      new military receiver ... certainly the G3SBI 3 transformers
      version ... imagine the military winding the I7SWX special
      transformer ... it will never work ...hi !

      73

      Gian
      I7SWX
    • FRANCIS CARCIA
      I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode mixer to generate DSB. sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc ... you ... order ... loss of
      Message 2 of 25 , May 1, 2007
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        I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode mixer to generate DSB.
        sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc

        Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
        --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "tom_iphi" <iphi@...> wrote:
        >
        > P.S.
        >
        > > The plot is simple ... hi... well in the bottom horizontal line
        you
        > > have the input power in dBm, while on the vertical the IMD 3rd
        order
        > > values in dBm. From there you can calculate the IP3.
        >
        > From that I can only calculate the IP3 if I know the conversion
        loss of
        > the mixer.
        > Example:
        > Say 10dBm input power, 6dB conversion loss
        > => 4dBm output power
        > IMD3 at -50dBm
        > => IMD3 at -54dBc on output
        > => Input IP3 = 10dBm +54/2dBm = 37dBm
        >
        > correct?
        >
        > Tom DG8SAQ
        >

        Hi Tom,

        that's right. BTW average conversion loss of 2T H-Mode Mixer is
        around -5dB or less. <there is a configuration that may increase CL
        up to < -7dBm with generally an increase in IP3.

        "Voices" are saying that the H-Mode Mixer has been integrated in a
        new military receiver ... certainly the G3SBI 3 transformers
        version ... imagine the military winding the I7SWX special
        transformer ... it will never work ...hi !

        73

        Gian
        I7SWX


      • Giancarlo
        ... mixer to generate DSB. ... Hi Francis, thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be interesting to see it. My feeling is that such
        Message 3 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
          mixer to generate DSB.
          > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
          >

          Hi Francis,

          thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
          interesting to see it.

          My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
          mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
          The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
          in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This is
          done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions were
          only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
          time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two transformers.

          73

          Gian
          I7SWX
        • FRANCIS CARCIA
          Hi Gian, Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr. addition fifteen 1959 and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes) used
          Message 4 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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            Hi Gian,
            Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr. addition fifteen 1959
            and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes) used to generate SSB.
            No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
            The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard to beat!  frank wa1gfz

            Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
            --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
            mixer to generate DSB.
            > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
            >

            Hi Francis,

            thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
            interesting to see it.

            My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
            mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
            The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
            in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This is
            done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions were
            only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
            time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two transformers.

            73

            Gian
            I7SWX


          • Giancarlo
            ... addition fifteen 1959 ... used to generate SSB. ... always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes. ... new. G3SBI did a good job on this
            Message 5 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Gian,
              > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
              addition fifteen 1959
              > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
              used to generate SSB.
              > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
              always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
              > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
              new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
              to beat! frank wa1gfz

              HI Frank,

              thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
              do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959 on
              this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
              land so I connot visit any library.

              It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
              the file in files.

              Thanks and 73

              Gian
              I7SWX


              >
              > Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
              > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
              <carcia@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
              > mixer to generate DSB.
              > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
              > >
              >
              > Hi Francis,
              >
              > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
              > interesting to see it.
              >
              > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
              > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
              > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
              > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This
              is
              > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
              were
              > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
              > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
              transformers.
              >
              > 73
              >
              > Gian
              > I7SWX
              >
            • FRANCIS CARCIA
              http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/books.htm Hi Gian, go to the link above and down load it for free. frank ... addition fifteen 1959 ... used to generate SSB.
              Message 6 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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                Hi Gian,
                go to the link above and down load it for free. frank

                Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Gian,
                > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
                addition fifteen 1959
                > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
                used to generate SSB.
                > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
                always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
                > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
                new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
                to beat! frank wa1gfz

                HI Frank,

                thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
                do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959 on
                this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
                land so I connot visit any library.

                It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
                the file in files.

                Thanks and 73

                Gian
                I7SWX

                >
                > Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
                <carcia@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
                > mixer to generate DSB.
                > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
                > >
                >
                > Hi Francis,
                >
                > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would be
                > interesting to see it.
                >
                > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
                > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
                > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner design
                > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one. This
                is
                > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
                were
                > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
                > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
                transformers.
                >
                > 73
                >
                > Gian
                > I7SWX
                >


              • Lawrence
                ... It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the handbook. I will scan those pages for you. 73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
                Message 7 of 25 , May 2, 2007
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                  > Giancarlo wrote:
                  >
                  > thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ...
                  > but where
                  > do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook
                  > date 1959 on
                  > this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling
                  > anymore to W-
                  > land so I connot visit any library.

                  It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the
                  handbook. I will scan those pages for you.

                  73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
                • Giancarlo
                  Hi Frank, thanks for the dowloading address. I have found the ARRL 1959 edition not Bill Orr Handbook. 73 Gian I7SWX ... on ... be ... design ... This
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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                    Hi Frank,

                    thanks for the dowloading address. I have found the ARRL 1959 edition
                    not Bill Orr Handbook.

                    73

                    Gian
                    I7SWX

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/books.htm
                    >
                    > Hi Gian,
                    > go to the link above and down load it for free. frank
                    >
                    > Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
                    <carcia@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Gian,
                    > > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
                    > addition fifteen 1959
                    > > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
                    > used to generate SSB.
                    > > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
                    > always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
                    > > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
                    > new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
                    > to beat! frank wa1gfz
                    >
                    > HI Frank,
                    >
                    > thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
                    > do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959
                    on
                    > this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
                    > land so I connot visit any library.
                    >
                    > It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
                    > the file in files.
                    >
                    > Thanks and 73
                    >
                    > Gian
                    > I7SWX
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Giancarlo <i7swx@> wrote:
                    > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
                    > <carcia@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
                    > > mixer to generate DSB.
                    > > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Francis,
                    > >
                    > > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would
                    be
                    > > interesting to see it.
                    > >
                    > > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
                    > > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
                    > > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner
                    design
                    > > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one.
                    This
                    > is
                    > > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
                    > were
                    > > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
                    > > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
                    > transformers.
                    > >
                    > > 73
                    > >
                    > > Gian
                    > > I7SWX
                    > >
                    >
                  • Giancarlo
                    ... Hi Lawrence, thanks if it is not a problem. Was your long time ago (1996?) trip to VE good? 73 Gian I7SWX
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence" <lawrence@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Giancarlo wrote:
                      > >
                      > > thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ...
                      > > but where
                      > > do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook
                      > > date 1959 on
                      > > this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling
                      > > anymore to W-
                      > > land so I connot visit any library.
                      >
                      > It just happens that I have a copy of that edition of the
                      > handbook. I will scan those pages for you.
                      >
                      > 73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
                      >
                      Hi Lawrence,

                      thanks if it is not a problem.

                      Was your long time ago (1996?) trip to VE good?

                      73

                      Gian
                      I7SWX
                    • FRANCIS CARCIA
                      Gian, You misread it. Check again. it was a bigger seller than the ARRL handbook Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible for them
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 3, 2007
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                        Gian,
                        You misread it. Check again. "it was a bigger seller than the ARRL handbook"
                        Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast Handbook. fc

                        Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                        Hi Frank,

                        thanks for the dowloading address. I have found the ARRL 1959 edition
                        not Bill Orr Handbook.

                        73

                        Gian
                        I7SWX

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > http://www.tech- systems-labs. com/books. htm
                        >
                        > Hi Gian,
                        > go to the link above and down load it for free. frank
                        >
                        > Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                        > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
                        <carcia@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Gian,
                        > > Look at page 338 and 339 of the Radio Handbook by Bill Orr.
                        > addition fifteen 1959
                        > > and you will see the H mode mixer and four phase switch (tubes)
                        > used to generate SSB.
                        > > No Oxner never thought of referencing the FETs to ground. He
                        > always did a ring or single balanced mixer. I have his app notes.
                        > > The solid state H mode mixer is a very good idea but it isn't
                        > new. G3SBI did a good job on this mixer and the performance is hard
                        > to beat! frank wa1gfz
                        >
                        > HI Frank,
                        >
                        > thanks for the info .... Bill Orr is in QRT somewhere ... but where
                        > do you think am I going to recuperate hi Radio Handbook date 1959
                        on
                        > this side of the pond? I am sorry I am not travelling anymore to W-
                        > land so I connot visit any library.
                        >
                        > It would be interesting if you could copy the two pages and upload
                        > the file in files.
                        >
                        > Thanks and 73
                        >
                        > Gian
                        > I7SWX
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Giancarlo <i7swx@> wrote:
                        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA
                        > <carcia@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I have an old handbook that has 4 tubes configured as an h mode
                        > > mixer to generate DSB.
                        > > > sorry a bit before FETS and switches. fc
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi Francis,
                        > >
                        > > thanks for your note. I have not seen such circuit and it would
                        be
                        > > interesting to see it.
                        > >
                        > > My feeling is that such circuit could be similar to the original
                        > > mixer developed by Oxner ... a guess.
                        > > The H-Mode Mixer was developed by G3SBI, modifying the Oxner
                        design
                        > > in such a way that the LO signals do not modulate the RF one.
                        This
                        > is
                        > > done taking the transformer windings to ground. My contributions
                        > were
                        > > only the use of Fast Bus Switches like FST3125 and the like, this
                        > > time in 1998, and then the simplified version using two
                        > transformers.
                        > >
                        > > 73
                        > >
                        > > Gian
                        > > I7SWX
                        > >
                        >


                      • Giancarlo
                        ... ARRL handbook ... for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast Handbook. fc ... edition ... Hi Frank, thanks... I found the book.
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 4, 2007
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                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Gian,
                          > You misread it. Check again. "it was a bigger seller than the
                          ARRL handbook"
                          > Back then the West coast guys were the QRO kings.......The Bible
                          for them was written by Bill Orr. It was often called the West coast
                          Handbook. fc
                          >
                          > Giancarlo <i7swx@...> wrote:
                          > Hi Frank,
                          >
                          > thanks for the dowloading address. I have found the ARRL 1959
                          edition
                          > not Bill Orr Handbook.
                          >
                          > 73
                          >
                          > Gian
                          > I7SWX
                          >
                          >

                          Hi Frank,

                          thanks... I found the book.

                          73
                          Gian
                          I7SWX
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