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Elecraft K3 and SoftRock

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  • jabauzit
    Good evening, I am sure that you all know about the new K3. If not see: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/ The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 28, 2007
      Good evening,

      I am sure that you all know about the new K3.
      If not see:
      http://www.elecraft.com/K3/

      The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and among one
      of threads I found a reference for the SoftRock (The K3 has an IF
      output which will be used by a future panadapter display):

      Question:
      Sorry if I missed this in the published specs, but
      will the K3 have a bandscan display feature (via a
      connected PC)? Trying to figure out differences in
      some of the bells and whistles (vice raw performance,
      where I expect the K3 will best the competition) to
      between the new K3 and, say, an Icom Pro III or TenTec
      Omni VII.

      Thanks!
      Paul, N6LQ (K2 #3640)

      Answer:
      Not directly.

      There is a buffered IF output before the roofing filter, and one could
      attach an external panadaptor like the Clifton Z90 or Z91. Or attach a
      $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input
      soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a PC if it has
      the right soundcard.

      Many possibilities :-)

      73, Lyle KK7P

      The IF is at 8.215 MHz and Tony should think about a SoftRock Lite K3
      edition as the panadapter won't see the light for quite a while.

      Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
    • RAY
      Wow - this is a surprise rig. It could be a very serious contender in the DSP rig world - having a independant sub receiver with its own DSP is a real big
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 28, 2007
        Wow - this is a surprise rig.  It could be a very serious contender in the DSP rig world - having a independant sub receiver with its own DSP is a real big plus.  I don't think there is anything out there that competes at the price.  Also has great range of selectable roofing filters.
         
        It will be intersting to hear how it performs in the work place .
         
        73, Ray, N0FY
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jabauzit
        Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:27 PM
        Subject: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock

        Good evening,

        I am sure that you all know about the new K3.
        If not see:
        http://www.elecraft .com/K3/

        The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and among one
        of threads I found a reference for the SoftRock (The K3 has an IF
        output which will be used by a future panadapter display):

        Question:
        Sorry if I missed this in the published specs, but
        will the K3 have a bandscan display feature (via a
        connected PC)? Trying to figure out differences in
        some of the bells and whistles (vice raw performance,
        where I expect the K3 will best the competition) to
        between the new K3 and, say, an Icom Pro III or TenTec
        Omni VII.

        Thanks!
        Paul, N6LQ (K2 #3640)

        Answer:
        Not directly.

        There is a buffered IF output before the roofing filter, and one could
        attach an external panadaptor like the Clifton Z90 or Z91. Or attach a
        $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input
        soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a PC if it has
        the right soundcard.

        Many possibilities :-)

        73, Lyle KK7P

        The IF is at 8.215 MHz and Tony should think about a SoftRock Lite K3
        edition as the panadapter won't see the light for quite a while.

        Jean-Claude PJ2BVU

      • Brian Moran
        There are a few pictures of the K3 taken at the Visalia DX Convention on http://www.wwdxc.org. RAY wrote: Wow - this is a surprise rig.
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
          There are a few pictures of the K3 taken at the Visalia DX Convention on http://www.wwdxc.org.


          RAY <WA2HVI@...> wrote:
          Wow - this is a surprise rig.  It could be a very serious contender in the DSP rig world - having a independant sub receiver with its own DSP is a real big plus.  I don't think there is anything out there that competes at the price.  Also has great range of selectable roofing filters.
           
          It will be intersting to hear how it performs in the work place .
           
          73, Ray, N0FY
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jabauzit
          Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:27 PM
          Subject: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock

          Good evening,

          I am sure that you all know about the new K3.
          If not see:
          http://www.elecraft .com/K3/

          The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and among one
          of threads I found a reference for the SoftRock (The K3 has an IF
          output which will be used by a future panadapter display):

          Question:
          Sorry if I missed this in the published specs, but
          will the K3 have a bandscan display feature (via a
          connected PC)? Trying to figure out differences in
          some of the bells and whistles (vice raw performance,
          where I expect the K3 will best the competition) to
          between the new K3 and, say, an Icom Pro III or TenTec
          Omni VII.

          Thanks!
          Paul, N6LQ (K2 #3640)

          Answer:
          Not directly.

          There is a buffered IF output before the roofing filter, and one could
          attach an external panadaptor like the Clifton Z90 or Z91. Or attach a
          $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input
          soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a PC if it has
          the right soundcard.

          Many possibilities :-)

          73, Lyle KK7P

          The IF is at 8.215 MHz and Tony should think about a SoftRock Lite K3
          edition as the panadapter won't see the light for quite a while.

          Jean-Claude PJ2BVU


        • Tony Parks
          A SoftRock Lite for K3 use could have a center frequency of about 8.191 MHz by use of a low-cost 32.768 MHz crystal. This would place the center frequency
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
            A SoftRock Lite for K3 use could have a center frequency of about 8.191 MHz by use of a low-cost 32.768 MHz crystal.  This would place the center frequency about 24 kHz below the center of the K3's IF passband and when used with a soundcard that can sample at 96 kHz the view of signals in the IF passband would be about +/-24 kHz from the center of the K3 passband without the SoftRock center frequency noise being in the picture.  The gain of the K3 SoftRock Lite kit could be set for the signal level available from the K3 IF output.
             
            I could provide a K3 SoftRock Lite kit at a price of $11 US, $12 for DX.
             
            Thanks and 73,
            Tony KB9YIG
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: RAY
            Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:03 AM
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock

            Wow - this is a surprise rig.  It could be a very serious contender in the DSP rig world - having a independant sub receiver with its own DSP is a real big plus.  I don't think there is anything out there that competes at the price.  Also has great range of selectable roofing filters.
             
            It will be intersting to hear how it performs in the work place .
             
            73, Ray, N0FY
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jabauzit
            Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:27 PM
            Subject: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock

            Good evening,

            I am sure that you all know about the new K3.
            If not see:
            http://www.elecraft .com/K3/

            The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and among one
            of threads I found a reference for the SoftRock (The K3 has an IF
            output which will be used by a future panadapter display):

            Question:
            Sorry if I missed this in the published specs, but
            will the K3 have a bandscan display feature (via a
            connected PC)? Trying to figure out differences in
            some of the bells and whistles (vice raw performance,
            where I expect the K3 will best the competition) to
            between the new K3 and, say, an Icom Pro III or TenTec
            Omni VII.

            Thanks!
            Paul, N6LQ (K2 #3640)

            Answer:
            Not directly.

            There is a buffered IF output before the roofing filter, and one could
            attach an external panadaptor like the Clifton Z90 or Z91. Or attach a
            $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input
            soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a PC if it has
            the right soundcard.

            Many possibilities :-)

            73, Lyle KK7P

            The IF is at 8.215 MHz and Tony should think about a SoftRock Lite K3
            edition as the panadapter won't see the light for quite a while.

            Jean-Claude PJ2BVU

          • Jerry Flanders
            But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference, anyway. A simple panadaptor
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
              But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
              ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
              anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
              additional sound card.

              Jerry W4UK

              At 11:31 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
              >A SoftRock Lite for K3 use could have a center frequency of about
              >8.191 MHz by use of a low-cost 32.768 MHz crystal. This would place
              >the center frequency about 24 kHz below the center of the K3's IF
              >passband and when used with a soundcard that can sample at 96 kHz
              >the view of signals in the IF passband would be about +/-24 kHz from
              >the center of the K3 passband without the SoftRock center frequency
              >noise being in the picture. The gain of the K3 SoftRock Lite kit
              >could be set for the signal level available from the K3 IF output.
              >
              >I could provide a K3 SoftRock Lite kit at a price of $11 US, $12 for DX.
              >
              >Thanks and 73,
              >Tony KB9YIG
              >
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: <mailto:WA2HVI@...>RAY
              >To: <mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com>softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:03 AM
              >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock
              >
              >Wow - this is a surprise rig. It could be a very serious contender
              >in the DSP rig world - having a independant sub receiver with its
              >own DSP is a real big plus. I don't think there is anything out
              >there that competes at the price. Also has great range of
              >selectable roofing filters.
              >
              >It will be intersting to hear how it performs in the work place .
              >
              >73, Ray, N0FY
              >
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: <mailto:jabauzit@...>jabauzit
              >To: <mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com>softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:27 PM
              >Subject: [softrock40] Elecraft K3 and SoftRock
              >
              >Good evening,
              >
              >I am sure that you all know about the new K3.
              >If not see:
              ><http://www.elecraft.com/K3/>http://www.elecraft.com/K3/
              >
              >The Elecraft reflector has been very busy about the K3 and among one
              >of threads I found a reference for the SoftRock (The K3 has an IF
              >output which will be used by a future panadapter display):
              >
              >Question:
              >Sorry if I missed this in the published specs, but
              >will the K3 have a bandscan display feature (via a
              >connected PC)? Trying to figure out differences in
              >some of the bells and whistles (vice raw performance,
              >where I expect the K3 will best the competition) to
              >between the new K3 and, say, an Icom Pro III or TenTec
              >Omni VII.
              >
              >Thanks!
              >Paul, N6LQ (K2 #3640)
              >
              >Answer:
              >Not directly.
              >
              >There is a buffered IF output before the roofing filter, and one could
              >attach an external panadaptor like the Clifton Z90 or Z91. Or attach a
              >$20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input
              >soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a PC if it has
              >the right soundcard.
              >
              >Many possibilities :-)
              >
              >73, Lyle KK7P
              >
              >The IF is at 8.215 MHz and Tony should think about a SoftRock Lite K3
              >edition as the panadapter won't see the light for quite a while.
              >
              >Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
              >
              >
            • Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
              Hi all, I m really not up-to-date, since I can t keep up with this list while traveling. Can I get a Softrock Lite for 40M so I can build it up and test it,
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                Hi all,
                I'm really not up-to-date, since I can't keep up with this list while
                traveling.

                Can I get a Softrock Lite for 40M so I can build it up and test
                it, and a crystal and whatever else would convert it for the K3 IF? I
                have a K3 on order already, since Friday at Visalia.

                And would there be an advantage to having the center of the Softrock
                passband set to the K3 IF, instead of the inexpensive crystal with the
                offset?

                73, doug

                From: "Tony Parks" <raparks@...>
                Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:31:06 -0400

                A SoftRock Lite for K3 use could have a center frequency of about 8.191 MHz=
                by use of a low-cost 32.768 MHz crystal. This would place the center freq=
                uency about 24 kHz below the center of the K3's IF passband and when used w=
                ith a soundcard that can sample at 96 kHz the view of signals in the IF pas=
                sband would be about +/-24 kHz from the center of the K3 passband without t=
                he SoftRock center frequency noise being in the picture. The gain of the K=
                3 SoftRock Lite kit could be set for the signal level available from the K3=
                IF output.

                I could provide a K3 SoftRock Lite kit at a price of $11 US, $12 for DX.

                Thanks and 73,
                Tony KB9YIG
              • k5nwa
                For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it s a different story.
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                  For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more
                  than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it's a
                  different story.

                  General comments on a sound card for use with the SoftRock as a receiver;

                  For use as the receiver keep in mind that most sound cards that only
                  do 48KHz are very inferior in performance and tend to be 16 bit
                  cards. For decent performance you need a 24 bit card with the largest
                  dynamic range you can afford and low in noise. A card with decent
                  performance in the low budget category is the SB Live 24 PCI you can
                  get it from $10 to $20 and the performance is way better that many of
                  it's way more expensive brothers.

                  The sound card is the heart of how well a SDR radio performs, that is
                  a poor place to be cutting corners. I have a USB SB Live sound card
                  that is very clean in terms of spurs and noise, and it does a good
                  job, that is until you compare it to a good 24 bit card.

                  I have 2 sets of Ozy/Janus cards coming, and that is going to be as
                  good as I can afford for a while, it's specifications are similar to
                  $1000 professional sound cards. And even the little SoftRocks can
                  benefit from it's superior performance.


                  At 11:41 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:

                  >But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
                  >ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
                  >anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
                  >additional sound card.
                  >
                  >Jerry W4UK
                  >

                  Cecil
                  KD5NWA
                  www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com

                  "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                • jabauzit
                  ... Hi Doug, The advantage would be to have a symmetrical spectrum display around the frequency on which the K3 is tuned. With a 192kHz sampling rate it would
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
                    <faunt@...> wrote:
                    >
                    .......
                    >
                    > And would there be an advantage to having the center of the Softrock
                    > passband set to the K3 IF, instead of the inexpensive crystal with the
                    > offset?
                    >
                    Hi Doug,

                    The advantage would be to have a symmetrical spectrum display around
                    the frequency on which the K3 is tuned. With a 192kHz sampling rate it
                    would be perfect as the IF bandwidth of the K3 is 200 kHz. The fact
                    that the SoftRock is not good to receive a station right on top of the
                    SoftRock center frequency wouldn't matter as you would use the audio
                    from the K3.
                    There could be a problem:
                    I did not see it mentioned but from my experience when a station is
                    transmitting extremely close to the SoftRock center frequency the
                    spectrum display becomes wild with huge waves spreading in a
                    symmetrical way. I wonder if adding a notch - high pass filter - at
                    the output of the op amps would be a good idea.
                    There have been times where I was unable to use my RXTX due to this
                    phenomenum. Did anyone experience it?

                    Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                  • Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
                    I didn t know about the problem with receiving on the center frequency. And is there a soundcard primer, more complete then the one in May QST? Is there a
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                      I didn't know about the problem with receiving on the center
                      frequency.

                      And is there a soundcard primer, more complete then the one in May
                      QST? Is there a 96kHz or 192kHz capable USB or Firewire soundcard
                      that's not as big as a radio and nearly as expensive? None of my
                      computers have PCI slots, and the PCMCIA slots are usually full of
                      serial ports.

                      73, doug

                      From: "jabauzit" <jabauzit@...>
                      Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:48:06 -0000

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
                      <faunt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      .......
                      >
                      > And would there be an advantage to having the center of the Softrock
                      > passband set to the K3 IF, instead of the inexpensive crystal with the
                      > offset?
                      >
                      Hi Doug,

                      The advantage would be to have a symmetrical spectrum display around
                      the frequency on which the K3 is tuned. With a 192kHz sampling rate it
                      would be perfect as the IF bandwidth of the K3 is 200 kHz. The fact
                      that the SoftRock is not good to receive a station right on top of the
                      SoftRock center frequency wouldn't matter as you would use the audio
                      from the K3.
                      There could be a problem:
                      I did not see it mentioned but from my experience when a station is
                      transmitting extremely close to the SoftRock center frequency the
                      spectrum display becomes wild with huge waves spreading in a
                      symmetrical way. I wonder if adding a notch - high pass filter - at
                      the output of the op amps would be a good idea.
                      There have been times where I was unable to use my RXTX due to this
                      phenomenum. Did anyone experience it?

                      Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                    • k5nwa
                      Something to keep in mind as to why it s better to move the IF so it s not centered is that the SoftRocks with a lack of an amplifier leaks the LO signal out
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                        Something to keep in mind as to why it's better to move the IF so
                        it's not centered is that the SoftRocks with a lack of an amplifier
                        leaks the LO signal out the antenna connection and into the radio's IF chain.

                        At 12:48 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:

                        >--- In
                        ><mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>softrock40@yahoogroups.com,
                        >Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
                        ><faunt@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        >.......
                        > >
                        > > And would there be an advantage to having the center of the Softrock
                        > > passband set to the K3 IF, instead of the inexpensive crystal with the
                        > > offset?
                        > >
                        >Hi Doug,
                        >
                        >The advantage would be to have a symmetrical spectrum display around
                        >the frequency on which the K3 is tuned. With a 192kHz sampling rate it
                        >would be perfect as the IF bandwidth of the K3 is 200 kHz. The fact
                        >that the SoftRock is not good to receive a station right on top of the
                        >SoftRock center frequency wouldn't matter as you would use the audio
                        >from the K3.
                        >There could be a problem:
                        >I did not see it mentioned but from my experience when a station is
                        >transmitting extremely close to the SoftRock center frequency the
                        >spectrum display becomes wild with huge waves spreading in a
                        >symmetrical way. I wonder if adding a notch - high pass filter - at
                        >the output of the op amps would be a good idea.
                        >There have been times where I was unable to use my RXTX due to this
                        >phenomenum. Did anyone experience it?
                        >
                        >Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                        >
                        >

                        Cecil
                        KD5NWA
                        www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com

                        "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                      • jabauzit
                        ... IF chain. ... You have a very good point and I suspect that even using an amplifier with very good reverse isolation the LO would manage to make its way to
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, k5nwa <k5nwa@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Something to keep in mind as to why it's better to move the IF so
                          > it's not centered is that the SoftRocks with a lack of an amplifier
                          > leaks the LO signal out the antenna connection and into the radio's
                          IF chain.
                          >
                          You have a very good point and I suspect that even using an amplifier
                          with very good reverse isolation the LO would manage to make its way
                          to the IF of the connected rig.

                          Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                        • Jerry Flanders
                          I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800 Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor. I have been using panadaptors for about 9
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                            I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800
                            Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor.

                            I have been using panadaptors for about 9 years continuously now
                            (Icom 756 series) and can't even remember last time I used wider than
                            25 KHz bandwidth. I don't need 96 KHz sampling. If we can have a
                            cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display center at the IF and
                            do it with the typical on-board sound card every K3 owner will have it.

                            Jerry W4UK

                            At 01:43 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                            >For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more
                            >than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it's a
                            >different story.
                            ><snip>
                            >
                            >At 11:41 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                            >
                            > >But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
                            > >ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
                            > >anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
                            > >additional sound card.
                            > >
                            > >Jerry W4UK
                            > >
                            >
                            >Cecil
                            >KD5NWA
                          • Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
                            Hm, over on the AMSAT list I see a useful possibility for actually receiving using the SDR back-end. Note that the K3 looks as if it ll make a very good IF
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                              Hm, over on the AMSAT list I see a useful possibility for actually
                              receiving using the SDR back-end. Note that the K3 looks as if it'll
                              make a very good IF RX/TX for satellite work.

                              73, doug


                              From: Jerry Flanders <jeflanders@...>
                              Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:38:14 -0400

                              I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800
                              Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor.

                              I have been using panadaptors for about 9 years continuously now
                              (Icom 756 series) and can't even remember last time I used wider than
                              25 KHz bandwidth. I don't need 96 KHz sampling. If we can have a
                              cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display center at the IF and
                              do it with the typical on-board sound card every K3 owner will have it.

                              Jerry W4UK

                              At 01:43 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                              >For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more
                              >than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it's a
                              >different story.
                              ><snip>
                              >
                              >At 11:41 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                              >
                              > >But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
                              > >ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
                              > >anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
                              > >additional sound card.
                              > >
                              > >Jerry W4UK
                              > >
                              >
                              >Cecil
                              >KD5NWA




                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • jabauzit
                              ... I think that would be the main reason. ... If you use the low cost Xtal mentioned by Tony you would need 96 kHz sampling and see 24 kHz on one side of the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Flanders <jeflanders@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800
                                > Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor.

                                I think that would be the main reason.

                                >
                                > I have been using panadaptors for about 9 years continuously now
                                > (Icom 756 series) and can't even remember last time I used wider
                                > than 25 KHz bandwidth. I don't need 96 KHz sampling.

                                If you use the low cost Xtal mentioned by Tony you would need 96 kHz
                                sampling and see 24 kHz on one side of the K3 frequency and 72 kHz on
                                the other side. You could zoom and pan the display to have the
                                spectrum centered on the screen and see +/- 24 kHz (or less).

                                > If we can have a cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display
                                > center at the IF and do it with the typical on-board sound card
                                > every K3 owner will have it.
                                >

                                As mentioned by Cecil the LO leakage will be a problem.

                                Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                              • k5nwa
                                Try it, you might just find out why you don t want the pass-band centered on the softrock. ... Cecil KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com Blessed are the
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                  Try it, you might just find out why you don't want the pass-band
                                  centered on the softrock.

                                  At 02:38 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:

                                  >I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800
                                  >Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor.
                                  >
                                  >I have been using panadaptors for about 9 years continuously now
                                  >(Icom 756 series) and can't even remember last time I used wider than
                                  >25 KHz bandwidth. I don't need 96 KHz sampling. If we can have a
                                  >cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display center at the IF and
                                  >do it with the typical on-board sound card every K3 owner will have it.
                                  >
                                  >Jerry W4UK
                                  >
                                  >At 01:43 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                  > >For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more
                                  > >than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it's a
                                  > >different story.
                                  > ><snip>
                                  > >
                                  > >At 11:41 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
                                  > > >ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
                                  > > >anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
                                  > > >additional sound card.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Jerry W4UK
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >Cecil
                                  > >KD5NWA
                                  >
                                  >

                                  Cecil
                                  KD5NWA
                                  www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com

                                  "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light."
                                • Jerry Flanders
                                  ... I think the LO would be 12 KHz away if I am seeing a 24 KHz passband when the IF is in the center of the panadaptor - no? Jerry W4UK
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                    At 05:29 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ><snip>
                                    >
                                    > > If we can have a cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display
                                    > > center at the IF and do it with the typical on-board sound card
                                    > > every K3 owner will have it.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >As mentioned by Cecil the LO leakage will be a problem.
                                    >
                                    >Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                                    >

                                    I think the LO would be 12 KHz away if I am seeing a 24 KHz passband
                                    when the IF is in the center of the panadaptor - no?

                                    Jerry W4UK
                                  • Jerry Flanders
                                    See my last posting - the LO would be 12 KHz away from the signal being listened to. Jerry W4UK
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                      See my last posting - the LO would be 12 KHz away from the signal
                                      being listened to.

                                      Jerry W4UK

                                      At 05:41 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                      >Try it, you might just find out why you don't want the pass-band
                                      >centered on the softrock.
                                      >
                                      >At 02:38 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >I would bet that anybody adding a $12 softrock to a new $1800
                                      > >Elecraft K3 is doing so only to get the panadaptor.
                                      > >
                                      > >I have been using panadaptors for about 9 years continuously now
                                      > >(Icom 756 series) and can't even remember last time I used wider than
                                      > >25 KHz bandwidth. I don't need 96 KHz sampling. If we can have a
                                      > >cheap softrock lite with the panadaptor display center at the IF and
                                      > >do it with the typical on-board sound card every K3 owner will have it.
                                      > >
                                      > >Jerry W4UK
                                      > >
                                      > >At 01:43 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                      > > >For use only as a Pan-adaptor display the built in sound card is more
                                      > > >than good enough, but for use to actually receive with then it's a
                                      > > >different story.
                                      > > ><snip>
                                      > > >
                                      > > >At 11:41 AM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >But maybe better to spend an extra buck on the crystal to allow
                                      > > > >ordinary on-board sound card use. That would be my preference,
                                      > > > >anyway. A simple panadaptor add-on shouldn't require an expensive
                                      > > > >additional sound card.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >Jerry W4UK
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Cecil
                                      > > >KD5NWA
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >Cecil
                                      >KD5NWA
                                      >www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com
                                    • jabauzit
                                      ... Hi Jerry, I think there is some confusion with a regular SSB rig where the carrier is bellow or above the bandpass of the XTal filter. With a SDR you see
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Flanders <jeflanders@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        .................
                                        >
                                        > I think the LO would be 12 KHz away if I am seeing a 24 KHz passband
                                        > when the IF is in the center of the panadaptor - no?
                                        >

                                        Hi Jerry,

                                        I think there is some confusion with a regular SSB rig where the
                                        carrier is bellow or above the bandpass of the XTal filter. With a SDR
                                        you see both sides.
                                        Your question raises another interesting one:
                                        The K3 has an IF 200kHz wide but where is the receiving frequency
                                        relative to this 200kHz?
                                        This also true for any SoftRock used at the IF of any rig: where is
                                        the carrier relative to the band of spectrum available at the IF?

                                        Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                                      • Lyle Johnson
                                        ... 200 kHz wide? Please check the K3F FAQ for a description of the signal architecture . The IF tap is bandpass limited
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                          > The K3 has an IF 200kHz wide but where is the receiving frequency
                                          > relative to this 200kHz?

                                          200 kHz wide?

                                          Please check the K3F FAQ for a description of the signal architecture <
                                          URL:http://www.kk7p.com/K3FAQ.html >. The IF tap is bandpass limited by
                                          the input bandpass filter at RF. So at 80 meters it is at least 500 kHz
                                          wide, and 10 meters 2 MHz wide, etc.

                                          The IF is 8.215 MHz. The actual "zero beat" frequency will be 8.215 MHz
                                          for CW, but offset for other modes depending on the roofing filter
                                          bandwidth, passband tuning offsets, etc. In general, you can assume it
                                          will be about 1.5 kHz on either side of 8.215 MHz.

                                          73,

                                          Lyle KK7P
                                        • jabauzit
                                          ... On the Elecraft Reflector you stated: Or attach a $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with stereo-input soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Lyle Johnson <kk7p@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > The K3 has an IF 200kHz wide but where is the receiving frequency
                                            > > relative to this 200kHz?
                                            >
                                            > 200 kHz wide?
                                            >
                                            On the Elecraft Reflector you stated:

                                            "Or attach a $20 softrock receiver and use an attached PC with
                                            stereo-input soundcard to display up to about 200 kHz of spectrum on a
                                            PC if it has the right soundcard."

                                            I understood it as being the bandwidth of the IF when in reality it is
                                            the max sampling rate of the sound board (192 kHz).

                                            My mistake

                                            Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
                                          • Lyle Johnson
                                            ... Sorry for creating the confusion, Jean-Claude. 73, Lyle KK7P
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
                                              > I understood it as being the bandwidth of the IF when in reality it is
                                              > the max sampling rate of the sound board (192 kHz).

                                              Sorry for creating the confusion, Jean-Claude.

                                              73,

                                              Lyle KK7P
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