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Re: [softrock40] 40dBm IP3-Mixer

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  • FRANCIS CARCIA
    Racal uses the 4 FET FET mixer ring. The performance is quite good. I have some old SI 8901s kicking around somewhere. They would go close to 40 dBM with a
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Racal uses the 4 FET FET mixer ring. The performance is quite good. I have some old SI 8901s kicking around somewhere. They would go close to 40 dBM with a good gate swing.

      Richard Bown <richard.bown@...> wrote:
      tom_iphi wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
      > http://www.synergym wave.com/ products/ mixers/datasheet s/SFM-2.pdf
      > <http://www.synergym wave.com/ products/ mixers/datasheet s/SFM-2.pdf>
      >
      > Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
      > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
      > LO?
      >
      > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
      >
      >

      Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
      70's if I remember right.
      I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry

      Richard

      --
      ************ ********* *****
      Registered Linux user 365161
      Ham Call G8JVM

      http://software- radio.org. uk


    • Leon
      ... From: Richard Bown To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [softrock40] 40dBm
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Richard Bown" <richard.bown@...>
        To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [softrock40] 40dBm IP3-Mixer


        > tom_iphi wrote:
        >>
        >> Hi all,
        >>
        >> I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
        >> http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf
        >> <http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf>
        >>
        >> Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
        >> What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
        >> LO?
        >>
        >> 73, Tom DG8SAQ


        > Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
        > 70's if I remember right.
        > I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry


        They were made by Siliconix.

        73, Leon
        --
        Leon Heller
        Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
        Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
        Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
        leon355@...
        http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
      • Guido
        Hello Tom, While ago I read this about something comparable: http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg 73, Guido
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Hello Tom,

          While ago I read this about something comparable:

              http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg

          73, Guido

          On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
          I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
          What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
          LO?

        • Marco IK1ODO -2
          ... Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70 and 80 . A quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by Dobrovolny) referring to his
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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            At 16.44 01/04/2007, you wrote:


            >Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
            >70's if I remember right.
            >I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry
            >
            >Richard

            Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70' and 80'. A
            quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by
            Dobrovolny) referring to his work, for a quad-GaAsFET mixer: - it's
            #5280648 . Worth studying... also check #5027163.

            There was an article by Ed Oxner on Ham Radio, in 1988, about FET
            ring mixers. Anyone has a PDF copy?

            73 - Marco IK1ODO
          • Bill Dumke
            Another thing that helps a lot is to terminate the mixer s IF port in a short circuit everywhere outside the IF passband. This is easy with a narrowband IF.
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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              Another thing that helps a lot is to terminate the mixer's IF port in a
              short circuit everywhere outside the IF passband. This is easy with a
              narrowband IF. If the first IF filter looks like an open circuit
              outside the passband, use an impedance inverter. Voila! A short circuit.

              If the mixer port sees a high impedance outside of the passband on the
              IF port, it will have more gain, or less loss, than it does in the
              passband. And the 3rd order intermod will be worse.

              Diode mixers are bad for a number of reasons, but terminating them in 50
              Ohms doesn't help any. Active mixers properly biased work a lot better
              than diode mixers, because you can get lower noise figures with some
              gain instead of just loss. And if you bias a good RF power FET with
              the right LO voltage swing, etc. you can get great intermod performance
              as well.

              This thing uses FETs, not diodes.

              See patents under Franklin J. Cerny, Motorola. Worked with him in the
              early 70's.

              Bill wa9pwr

              Marco IK1ODO -2 wrote:
              >
              > At 16.44 01/04/2007, you wrote:
              >
              > >Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
              > >70's if I remember right.
              > >I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry
              > >
              > >Richard
              >
              > Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70' and 80'. A
              > quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by
              > Dobrovolny) referring to his work, for a quad-GaAsFET mixer: - it's
              > #5280648 . Worth studying... also check #5027163.
              >
              > There was an article by Ed Oxner on Ham Radio, in 1988, about FET
              > ring mixers. Anyone has a PDF copy?
              >
              > 73 - Marco IK1ODO
              >
              >
            • tom_iphi
              Thanks Guido, that s interesting. I didn t find a schematic on their webpage. So it s a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough. 73, Tom DG8SAQ ... 10Watts
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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                Thanks Guido,

                that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                73, Tom DG8SAQ

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Tom,
                >
                > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                >
                > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                >
                > 73, Guido
                >
                > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                >
                > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                10Watts
                > > LO?
                > >
                >
              • Guido
                Hello, Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                  Hello,

                  Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like patent 5280648.  ...or is this thought too simple?

                  Guido

                  On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                  Thanks Guido,

                  that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                  So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                  73, Tom DG8SAQ

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Tom,
                  >
                  > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                  >
                  >     http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                  >
                  > 73, Guido
                  >
                  > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                  > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                  10Watts
                  > > LO?

                • Guido
                  Hello, Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    Hello,

                    Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like patent 5280648.  ...or is this thought too simple?

                    Guido


                    On 4/2/07, tom_iphi < iphi@...> wrote:
                    Thanks Guido,

                    that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                    So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                    73, Tom DG8SAQ

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Tom,
                    >
                    > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                    >
                    >     http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                    >
                    > 73, Guido
                    >
                    > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                    > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                    10Watts
                    > > LO?

                  • tom_iphi
                    Hello, I take it back! That s no single balanced mixer at all! Not SoftRock like. The RF does obviously NOT pass thru the FETs. The FETs somehow serve as
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                      Hello,

                      I take it back! That's no single balanced mixer at all! Not SoftRock
                      like. The RF does obviously NOT pass thru the FETs. The FETs somehow
                      serve as switchable wave-reflectors, but I haven't fully grasped the
                      function yet.
                      RF and IF are connected at a single point, call it P. If the baluns
                      weren't there it would just be a linear circuit without mixing
                      action. Thus the baluns + FETs must serve as a switchable impedance
                      also connected at point P. If switched with the LO we get mixing.

                      Does anybody have an idea why the left part with FETs and baluns
                      looks like it looks?

                      73, Tom DG8SAQ

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello,
                      >
                      > Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock
                      v7 is
                      > actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic
                      and like
                      > patent 5280648. ...or is this thought too simple?
                      >
                      > Guido
                      >
                      > On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Guido,
                      > >
                      > > that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                      > > So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.
                      > >
                      > > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
                      > >
                      > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Tom,
                      > > >
                      > > > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                      > > >
                      > > > 73, Guido
                      > > >
                      > > > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                      > > > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                      > > 10Watts
                      > > > > LO?
                      > >
                      >
                    • Giancarlo
                      Hi Guido, the SoftRock V7 is not derived from the patented mixer . It is derived from a I-Q mixer I proposed in 2004 and it was published in RadCom in the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 4, 2007
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                        Hi Guido,

                        the SoftRock V7 is not derived from the "patented mixer".

                        It is derived from a I-Q mixer I proposed in 2004 and it was
                        published in RadCom in the G3VA column Technical Topics. I will
                        upload the circuit diagram. You will see two I7SWX 1T Double balanced
                        mixer drveng by a digital quadrature generator. The circuit has two
                        separate transformers that could have been driven by a combiner.
                        The V7 was taken from such circuit but using a single transformer and
                        in place of the FST3125 Phil, VK6APH, used the FST3253 multipler as
                        used in the V6 version.
                        As the Synergy datasheet is publishe in 2006 ... maybe they took the
                        idea from 2004 ... hi hi hi !!!
                        The same circuit was also publishe in Radio Rivista in 2004

                        73

                        Gian
                        I7SWX

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello,
                        >
                        > Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock
                        v7 is
                        > actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic
                        and like
                        > patent 5280648. ...or is this thought too simple?
                        >
                        > Guido
                        >
                        > On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks Guido,
                        > >
                        > > that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                        > > So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.
                        > >
                        > > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
                        > >
                        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Tom,
                        > > >
                        > > > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                        > > >
                        > > > 73, Guido
                        > > >
                        > > > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                        > > > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                        > > 10Watts
                        > > > > LO?
                        > >
                        >
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