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40dBm IP3-Mixer

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  • tom_iphi
    Hi all, I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer: http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf Does anybody know what s inside
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Hi all,

      I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
      http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf

      Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
      What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
      LO?

      73, Tom DG8SAQ
    • Lawrence
      ... From: tom_iphi Subject: [softrock40] 40dBm IP3-Mixer ... I have not seen a device like that before with such a specific LO range stated. It says 62 to 94
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "tom_iphi"
        Subject: [softrock40] 40dBm IP3-Mixer


        > Hi all,
        >
        > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
        > http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf
        >
        > Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
        > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without
        > running a 10Watts
        > LO?
        >
        > 73, Tom DG8SAQ

        I have not seen a device like that before with such a
        specific LO range stated. It says 62 to 94 MHz. Maybe the LO
        signal is amplified and matched inside the device. It could
        just be that it contains transformers that have a relatively
        limited frequency range.

        It does give single pin connections for RF, LO, IF and also
        Vdd so that any phase inversion must be done internally.

        73, Lawrence GJ3RAX
      • Richard Bown
        ... Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the 70 s if I remember right. I ve probably misspelt the guys name..sorry Richard --
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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          tom_iphi wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
          > http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf
          > <http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf>
          >
          > Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
          > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
          > LO?
          >
          > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
          >
          >













          Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
          70's if I remember right.
          I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry

          Richard

          --
          **************************
          Registered Linux user 365161
          Ham Call G8JVM



          http://software-radio.org.uk
        • FRANCIS CARCIA
          Racal uses the 4 FET FET mixer ring. The performance is quite good. I have some old SI 8901s kicking around somewhere. They would go close to 40 dBM with a
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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            Racal uses the 4 FET FET mixer ring. The performance is quite good. I have some old SI 8901s kicking around somewhere. They would go close to 40 dBM with a good gate swing.

            Richard Bown <richard.bown@...> wrote:
            tom_iphi wrote:
            >
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
            > http://www.synergym wave.com/ products/ mixers/datasheet s/SFM-2.pdf
            > <http://www.synergym wave.com/ products/ mixers/datasheet s/SFM-2.pdf>
            >
            > Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
            > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
            > LO?
            >
            > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
            >
            >

            Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
            70's if I remember right.
            I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry

            Richard

            --
            ************ ********* *****
            Registered Linux user 365161
            Ham Call G8JVM

            http://software- radio.org. uk


          • Leon
            ... From: Richard Bown To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [softrock40] 40dBm
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Richard Bown" <richard.bown@...>
              To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:44 PM
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] 40dBm IP3-Mixer


              > tom_iphi wrote:
              >>
              >> Hi all,
              >>
              >> I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
              >> http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf
              >> <http://www.synergymwave.com/products/mixers/datasheets/SFM-2.pdf>
              >>
              >> Does anybody know what's inside this little cutie?
              >> What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
              >> LO?
              >>
              >> 73, Tom DG8SAQ


              > Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
              > 70's if I remember right.
              > I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry


              They were made by Siliconix.

              73, Leon
              --
              Leon Heller
              Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
              Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
              Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
              leon355@...
              http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
            • Guido
              Hello Tom, While ago I read this about something comparable: http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg 73, Guido
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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                Hello Tom,

                While ago I read this about something comparable:

                    http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg

                73, Guido

                On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a 10Watts
                LO?

              • Marco IK1ODO -2
                ... Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70 and 80 . A quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by Dobrovolny) referring to his
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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                  At 16.44 01/04/2007, you wrote:


                  >Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
                  >70's if I remember right.
                  >I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry
                  >
                  >Richard

                  Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70' and 80'. A
                  quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by
                  Dobrovolny) referring to his work, for a quad-GaAsFET mixer: - it's
                  #5280648 . Worth studying... also check #5027163.

                  There was an article by Ed Oxner on Ham Radio, in 1988, about FET
                  ring mixers. Anyone has a PDF copy?

                  73 - Marco IK1ODO
                • Bill Dumke
                  Another thing that helps a lot is to terminate the mixer s IF port in a short circuit everywhere outside the IF passband. This is easy with a narrowband IF.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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                    Another thing that helps a lot is to terminate the mixer's IF port in a
                    short circuit everywhere outside the IF passband. This is easy with a
                    narrowband IF. If the first IF filter looks like an open circuit
                    outside the passband, use an impedance inverter. Voila! A short circuit.

                    If the mixer port sees a high impedance outside of the passband on the
                    IF port, it will have more gain, or less loss, than it does in the
                    passband. And the 3rd order intermod will be worse.

                    Diode mixers are bad for a number of reasons, but terminating them in 50
                    Ohms doesn't help any. Active mixers properly biased work a lot better
                    than diode mixers, because you can get lower noise figures with some
                    gain instead of just loss. And if you bias a good RF power FET with
                    the right LO voltage swing, etc. you can get great intermod performance
                    as well.

                    This thing uses FETs, not diodes.

                    See patents under Franklin J. Cerny, Motorola. Worked with him in the
                    early 70's.

                    Bill wa9pwr

                    Marco IK1ODO -2 wrote:
                    >
                    > At 16.44 01/04/2007, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >Any one remember Ed Oxners articles about 4 FETs in a ring, back in the
                    > >70's if I remember right.
                    > >I've probably misspelt the guys name..sorry
                    > >
                    > >Richard
                    >
                    > Ed Oxner, KB6QJ, was a designer of Siliconix in the 70' and 80'. A
                    > quick search on the web retrieves an interesting patent (by
                    > Dobrovolny) referring to his work, for a quad-GaAsFET mixer: - it's
                    > #5280648 . Worth studying... also check #5027163.
                    >
                    > There was an article by Ed Oxner on Ham Radio, in 1988, about FET
                    > ring mixers. Anyone has a PDF copy?
                    >
                    > 73 - Marco IK1ODO
                    >
                    >
                  • tom_iphi
                    Thanks Guido, that s interesting. I didn t find a schematic on their webpage. So it s a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough. 73, Tom DG8SAQ ... 10Watts
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 1, 2007
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                      Thanks Guido,

                      that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                      So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                      73, Tom DG8SAQ

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Tom,
                      >
                      > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                      >
                      > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                      >
                      > 73, Guido
                      >
                      > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                      > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                      10Watts
                      > > LO?
                      > >
                      >
                    • Guido
                      Hello, Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                        Hello,

                        Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like patent 5280648.  ...or is this thought too simple?

                        Guido

                        On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                        Thanks Guido,

                        that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                        So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                        73, Tom DG8SAQ

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Tom,
                        >
                        > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                        >
                        >     http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                        >
                        > 73, Guido
                        >
                        > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                        > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                        10Watts
                        > > LO?

                      • Guido
                        Hello, Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                          Hello,

                          Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock v7 is actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic and like patent 5280648.  ...or is this thought too simple?

                          Guido


                          On 4/2/07, tom_iphi < iphi@...> wrote:
                          Thanks Guido,

                          that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                          So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.

                          73, Tom DG8SAQ

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Tom,
                          >
                          > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                          >
                          >     http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                          >
                          > 73, Guido
                          >
                          > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                          > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                          10Watts
                          > > LO?

                        • tom_iphi
                          Hello, I take it back! That s no single balanced mixer at all! Not SoftRock like. The RF does obviously NOT pass thru the FETs. The FETs somehow serve as
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 2, 2007
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                            Hello,

                            I take it back! That's no single balanced mixer at all! Not SoftRock
                            like. The RF does obviously NOT pass thru the FETs. The FETs somehow
                            serve as switchable wave-reflectors, but I haven't fully grasped the
                            function yet.
                            RF and IF are connected at a single point, call it P. If the baluns
                            weren't there it would just be a linear circuit without mixing
                            action. Thus the baluns + FETs must serve as a switchable impedance
                            also connected at point P. If switched with the LO we get mixing.

                            Does anybody have an idea why the left part with FETs and baluns
                            looks like it looks?

                            73, Tom DG8SAQ

                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello,
                            >
                            > Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock
                            v7 is
                            > actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic
                            and like
                            > patent 5280648. ...or is this thought too simple?
                            >
                            > Guido
                            >
                            > On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Thanks Guido,
                            > >
                            > > that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                            > > So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.
                            > >
                            > > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
                            > >
                            > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello Tom,
                            > > >
                            > > > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                            > > >
                            > > > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                            > > >
                            > > > 73, Guido
                            > > >
                            > > > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                            > > > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                            > > 10Watts
                            > > > > LO?
                            > >
                            >
                          • Giancarlo
                            Hi Guido, the SoftRock V7 is not derived from the patented mixer . It is derived from a I-Q mixer I proposed in 2004 and it was published in RadCom in the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 4, 2007
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                              Hi Guido,

                              the SoftRock V7 is not derived from the "patented mixer".

                              It is derived from a I-Q mixer I proposed in 2004 and it was
                              published in RadCom in the G3VA column Technical Topics. I will
                              upload the circuit diagram. You will see two I7SWX 1T Double balanced
                              mixer drveng by a digital quadrature generator. The circuit has two
                              separate transformers that could have been driven by a combiner.
                              The V7 was taken from such circuit but using a single transformer and
                              in place of the FST3125 Phil, VK6APH, used the FST3253 multipler as
                              used in the V6 version.
                              As the Synergy datasheet is publishe in 2006 ... maybe they took the
                              idea from 2004 ... hi hi hi !!!
                              The same circuit was also publishe in Radio Rivista in 2004

                              73

                              Gian
                              I7SWX

                              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello,
                              >
                              > Yes, and you know I was really surprised to see that the softrock
                              v7 is
                              > actually a setup in a similar configuration as is in the schematic
                              and like
                              > patent 5280648. ...or is this thought too simple?
                              >
                              > Guido
                              >
                              > On 4/2/07, tom_iphi <iphi@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Thanks Guido,
                              > >
                              > > that's interesting. I didn't find a schematic on their webpage.
                              > > So it's a single balanced FET mixer. Simple enough.
                              > >
                              > > 73, Tom DG8SAQ
                              > >
                              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Guido <threeme3@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello Tom,
                              > > >
                              > > > While ago I read this about something comparable:
                              > > >
                              > > > http://phenix.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz/ne3508.jpg
                              > > >
                              > > > 73, Guido
                              > > >
                              > > > On 4/1/07, tom_iphi <iphi@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > I have stumbled across this very impressive HF mixer:
                              > > > > What's the trick to achieve such a high IP3 without running a
                              > > 10Watts
                              > > > > LO?
                              > >
                              >
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