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State of the SOAP (was: Is SOAP::Lite still in development?)

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  • Byrne Reese
    I do actively follow the group. I rarely have time to respond however between work, a kid, and a number of other projects I am actively engaged in. I tend to
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 15, 2007
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      I do actively follow the group. I rarely have time to respond however
      between work, a kid, and a number of other projects I am actively
      engaged in.

      I tend to develop SOAP::Lite in bursts when need and opportunity
      converge and I have a god chunk of time to work with.

      As with any open source project, it is always looking for help and
      looking for members from the community to take the initiative to
      contribute (some have, and I should go back and incorporate some of
      their patches).

      I could write a State of the SOAP address to give the community a sense
      of what's up... if I did, it would go something like this:

      The SOAP protocol is still in wide use today as it has become native to
      so many development platforms.SOAP itself has also become an incredibly
      stable protocol. The WS-* Wars of the early millenium seem to have died
      down, and the few truly useful extensions to SOAP have been selected by
      the market.

      Most SOAP toolkits as well have stablized along with the protocol.
      Relatively speaking, the status of this SOAP toolkit is fair to good.

      SOAP::Lite works with the majority of endpoints, but has a number of
      interoperability issues with more modern implementations of SOAP servers
      and clients. The task of keeping SOAP::Lite up to date is a difficult
      one. The source code is notoriously complex, a mark of the ingenious
      Paul who created SOAP:Lite, and as a result baffles most inexperienced
      Perl programmers, and indeed may even frighten them off. I myself am
      given the highest respect in my office for signing up to maintain the
      module - I work with some of the brightest and most experienced Perl
      programmers in the industry and they all look at SOAP::Lite in awe.

      But I am not trying to inflate my ego, I am trying to set the stage for
      what should be next for Perl's only SOAP toolkit.

      If SOAP::Lite as a project is to attract more contributing authors, it
      is essential that the SOAP::Lite code base become easier to work with.
      SOAP::Lite could benefit a great deal from shedding a lot of the code
      written before the protocol had really matured, before the era of the
      WS-i, before a time where other toolkits and servers had agreed upon and
      embraced a set of best practices. SOAP::Lite should shift to become
      document-driven, as opposed to RPC driven.

      SOAP::Lite needs a re-write. SOAP::Lite needs to live up to its name of
      "Lite." SOAP::Lite should be built from the ground up to conform to the
      WS-i's requirements. It should be built first and foremost around a
      wicked WSDL parser and engine. It should be made more modular so that
      its components can be more easily swapped out for newer and better
      implementations without disrupting users and developers. It should take
      advantage of the number of perl modules that have evolved since
      SOAP::Lite was conceived to reduce code complexity and obscurity.

      SOAP::Lite needs your help. SOAP::Lite needs a group of 2-3 passionate
      people to take a fresh look at this critical toolkit for Perl developers
      and to usher into a new age of utilization, community growth, usage, and
      utility.

      Undertaking a project like this is not a trivial task. It requires
      months and months of dedicated time and attention. And then it must also
      be supported and maintained.

      This project would not start from ground zero. There is a vision and a
      plethora of tried and true code already within SOAP::Lite that shouldn't
      be needlessly thrown away. What we endeavor to do is make SOAP::Lite
      easier to grok and easier to work with. What we hope to create is a new
      module, called SOAP::Easy.

      Byrne Reese
      Lead Developer and Maintainer, SOAP::Lite
    • raherh
      Thank you for the State of the SOAP speech. Good to hear your re still behind the module development. I use a limited scope of its functions but it s a part
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 16, 2007
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        Thank you for the "State of the SOAP" speech. Good to hear your're
        still behind the module development.

        I use a limited scope of its functions but it's a part of a bigger
        project which is all in Perl.

        A while ago someone mentioned this group being too polluted with
        spam. Recently I reported several such spams to Yahoo Mail Abuse Help
        and still wait if it will have any effect. There is always a
        possibility to move the group from Yahoo to a safer place.

        Radek
      • Chris McMahon
        I posted this to perlmonks: http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=594790
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 16, 2007
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           I posted this to perlmonks:
          http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=594790


          On 1/15/07, Byrne Reese < byrne@...> wrote:

          I do actively follow the group. I rarely have time to respond however
          between work, a kid, and a number of other projects I am actively
          engaged in.

          I tend to develop SOAP::Lite in bursts when need and opportunity
          converge and I have a god chunk of time to work with.

          As with any open source project, it is always looking for help and
          looking for members from the community to take the initiative to
          contribute (some have, and I should go back and incorporate some of
          their patches).

          I could write a State of the SOAP address to give the community a sense
          of what's up... if I did, it would go something like this:

          The SOAP protocol is still in wide use today as it has become native to
          so many development platforms.SOAP itself has also become an incredibly
          stable protocol. The WS-* Wars of the early millenium seem to have died
          down, and the few truly useful extensions to SOAP have been selected by
          the market.

          Most SOAP toolkits as well have stablized along with the protocol.
          Relatively speaking, the status of this SOAP toolkit is fair to good.

          SOAP::Lite works with the majority of endpoints, but has a number of
          interoperability issues with more modern implementations of SOAP servers
          and clients. The task of keeping SOAP::Lite up to date is a difficult
          one. The source code is notoriously complex, a mark of the ingenious
          Paul who created SOAP:Lite, and as a result baffles most inexperienced
          Perl programmers, and indeed may even frighten them off. I myself am
          given the highest respect in my office for signing up to maintain the
          module - I work with some of the brightest and most experienced Perl
          programmers in the industry and they all look at SOAP::Lite in awe.

          But I am not trying to inflate my ego, I am trying to set the stage for
          what should be next for Perl's only SOAP toolkit.

          If SOAP::Lite as a project is to attract more contributing authors, it
          is essential that the SOAP::Lite code base become easier to work with.
          SOAP::Lite could benefit a great deal from shedding a lot of the code
          written before the protocol had really matured, before the era of the
          WS-i, before a time where other toolkits and servers had agreed upon and
          embraced a set of best practices. SOAP::Lite should shift to become
          document-driven, as opposed to RPC driven.

          SOAP::Lite needs a re-write. SOAP::Lite needs to live up to its name of
          "Lite." SOAP::Lite should be built from the ground up to conform to the
          WS-i's requirements. It should be built first and foremost around a
          wicked WSDL parser and engine. It should be made more modular so that
          its components can be more easily swapped out for newer and better
          implementations without disrupting users and developers. It should take
          advantage of the number of perl modules that have evolved since
          SOAP::Lite was conceived to reduce code complexity and obscurity.

          SOAP::Lite needs your help. SOAP::Lite needs a group of 2-3 passionate
          people to take a fresh look at this critical toolkit for Perl developers
          and to usher into a new age of utilization, community growth, usage, and
          utility.

          Undertaking a project like this is not a trivial task. It requires
          months and months of dedicated time and attention. And then it must also
          be supported and maintained.

          This project would not start from ground zero. There is a vision and a
          plethora of tried and true code already within SOAP::Lite that shouldn't
          be needlessly thrown away. What we endeavor to do is make SOAP::Lite
          easier to grok and easier to work with. What we hope to create is a new
          module, called SOAP::Easy.

          Byrne Reese
          Lead Developer and Maintainer, SOAP::Lite


        • Byrne Reese
          And a slightly edited version has been posted to the SOAP::Lite blog: http://www.soaplite.com/2007/01/state_of_the_so.html
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 16, 2007
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            And a slightly edited version has been posted to the SOAP::Lite blog:

            http://www.soaplite.com/2007/01/state_of_the_so.html

            Chris McMahon wrote:
            > I posted this to perlmonks:
            > http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=594790
            >
            >
            > On 1/15/07, *Byrne Reese* < byrne@...
            > <mailto:byrne@...>> wrote:
            >
            > I do actively follow the group. I rarely have time to respond however
            > between work, a kid, and a number of other projects I am actively
            > engaged in.
            >
            > I tend to develop SOAP::Lite in bursts when need and opportunity
            > converge and I have a god chunk of time to work with.
            >
            > As with any open source project, it is always looking for help and
            > looking for members from the community to take the initiative to
            > contribute (some have, and I should go back and incorporate some of
            > their patches).
            >
            > I could write a State of the SOAP address to give the community a
            > sense
            > of what's up... if I did, it would go something like this:
            >
            > The SOAP protocol is still in wide use today as it has become
            > native to
            > so many development platforms.SOAP itself has also become an
            > incredibly
            > stable protocol. The WS-* Wars of the early millenium seem to have
            > died
            > down, and the few truly useful extensions to SOAP have been
            > selected by
            > the market.
            >
            > Most SOAP toolkits as well have stablized along with the protocol.
            > Relatively speaking, the status of this SOAP toolkit is fair to good.
            >
            > SOAP::Lite works with the majority of endpoints, but has a number of
            > interoperability issues with more modern implementations of SOAP
            > servers
            > and clients. The task of keeping SOAP::Lite up to date is a difficult
            > one. The source code is notoriously complex, a mark of the ingenious
            > Paul who created SOAP:Lite, and as a result baffles most
            > inexperienced
            > Perl programmers, and indeed may even frighten them off. I myself am
            > given the highest respect in my office for signing up to maintain the
            > module - I work with some of the brightest and most experienced Perl
            > programmers in the industry and they all look at SOAP::Lite in awe.
            >
            > But I am not trying to inflate my ego, I am trying to set the
            > stage for
            > what should be next for Perl's only SOAP toolkit.
            >
            > If SOAP::Lite as a project is to attract more contributing
            > authors, it
            > is essential that the SOAP::Lite code base become easier to work
            > with.
            > SOAP::Lite could benefit a great deal from shedding a lot of the code
            > written before the protocol had really matured, before the era of the
            > WS-i, before a time where other toolkits and servers had agreed
            > upon and
            > embraced a set of best practices. SOAP::Lite should shift to become
            > document-driven, as opposed to RPC driven.
            >
            > SOAP::Lite needs a re-write. SOAP::Lite needs to live up to its
            > name of
            > "Lite." SOAP::Lite should be built from the ground up to conform
            > to the
            > WS-i's requirements. It should be built first and foremost around a
            > wicked WSDL parser and engine. It should be made more modular so that
            > its components can be more easily swapped out for newer and better
            > implementations without disrupting users and developers. It should
            > take
            > advantage of the number of perl modules that have evolved since
            > SOAP::Lite was conceived to reduce code complexity and obscurity.
            >
            > SOAP::Lite needs your help. SOAP::Lite needs a group of 2-3
            > passionate
            > people to take a fresh look at this critical toolkit for Perl
            > developers
            > and to usher into a new age of utilization, community growth,
            > usage, and
            > utility.
            >
            > Undertaking a project like this is not a trivial task. It requires
            > months and months of dedicated time and attention. And then it
            > must also
            > be supported and maintained.
            >
            > This project would not start from ground zero. There is a vision
            > and a
            > plethora of tried and true code already within SOAP::Lite that
            > shouldn't
            > be needlessly thrown away. What we endeavor to do is make SOAP::Lite
            > easier to grok and easier to work with. What we hope to create is
            > a new
            > module, called SOAP::Easy.
            >
            > Byrne Reese
            > Lead Developer and Maintainer, SOAP::Lite
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Mark Wilkinson
            Hi all, Quick question - should the code fragment below set the User Agent HTTP header to be myApp when called by SOAP::Lite? @soapargs = ( $url, proxy = [
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 25, 2007
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              Hi all,

              Quick question - should the code fragment below set the User Agent HTTP
              header to be "myApp" when called by SOAP::Lite?

              @soapargs = ( $url, proxy => [ 'http' => $proxy ], user_agent => "myApp" );
              SOAP::Lite->proxy(@soapargs)->uri($uri)->on_fault(...);

              It isn't working for me, but it may be a bug elsewhere in my code.

              Any advice appreciated.

              Thanks!

              Mark
            • Mark Wilkinson
              Hi all, Is anyone in the SOAP::Lite community dealing with the non-working version that has been in CPAN for the past few months?
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 5, 2007
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                Hi all,

                Is anyone in the SOAP::Lite community dealing with the non-working version
                that has been in CPAN for the past few months?

                http://beta.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers/2006/08/msg343399.html

                I'm getting the exact same error message with failed tests, and I need to
                upgrade my production server... is it safe to ignore these failed tests,
                or are they serious?

                Please advise,

                Mark
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