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Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section

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  • Jake Savin
    The following text is a proposed addition to the Notes section of the BDG, which provides some guidance for when a server should generate a Fault response: If
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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      The following text is a proposed addition to the Notes section of the
      BDG, which provides some guidance for when a server should generate a
      Fault response:

      "If a request cannot be processed by the server, a responsible
      application will generate a fault. Examples of events which should
      cause faults include:
      * An element or attribute in the request has an XML namespace prefix
      which has not been declared.
      * The request includes a mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a
      semantic which the server can't process.
      * The request contains a data element of a type that the server
      implementation cannot decode."

      Does this cover the general use of Fault responses? It it specific
      enough?

      -Jake
    • Dave Winer
      Edited version: If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will generate a fault. Examples of events which should generate a fault
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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        Edited version:

        "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
        generate a fault. Examples of events which should
        generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the request has an XML
        namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
        mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which the server
        can't process; or the request contains a data element of a type that the
        server implementation cannot decode."

        Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->

        The word "responsible" was not necessary.

        And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be broken up into
        bulleted sections.

        Dave-the-Editor
      • Dave Winer
        Next rev: If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the request
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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          Next rev:

          "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
          respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the request
          uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
          returned; or if the request includes a
          mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a semantic which the server can't
          process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the server
          implementation cannot decode."

          Dave
        • Matt Long
          If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header right? ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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            If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
            right?


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
            > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
            > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
            >
            >
            > Edited version:
            >
            > "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
            > generate a fault. Examples of events which should
            > generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
            > request has an XML
            > namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
            > mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
            > the server
            > can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
            > type that the
            > server implementation cannot decode."
            >
            > Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
            >
            > The word "responsible" was not necessary.
            >
            > And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
            > broken up into
            > bulleted sections.
            >
            > Dave-the-Editor
            >
            >
            >
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          • Jake Savin
            The SOAP 1.1 spec, Section 4.2.3[1] says: [The mustUnderstand attribute] MUST appear in the instance in order to be effective (see section 3 and 4.2.1). Does
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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              The SOAP 1.1 spec, Section 4.2.3[1] says:

              "[The mustUnderstand attribute] MUST appear in the instance in order to be
              effective (see section 3 and 4.2.1).

              Does "MUST appear in the instance" mean it must be "carried in the header"?

              -Jake

              on 4/1/01 10:15 PM, Matt Long at mlong@... wrote:

              > If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
              > right?
              >
              >
              >> -----Original Message-----
              >> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
              >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
              >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
              >>
              >>
              >> Edited version:
              >>
              >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
              >> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
              >> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
              >> request has an XML
              >> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
              >> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
              >> the server
              >> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
              >> type that the
              >> server implementation cannot decode."
              >>
              >> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
              >>
              >> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
              >>
              >> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
              >> broken up into
              >> bulleted sections.
              >>
              >> Dave-the-Editor
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >> ---------------------~-~>
              >> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
              >> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
              >> now and get started.
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              >> --------------------------------------------------------------
              >> -------_->
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              >>
              >>
              >>
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              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
            • Simon Fell
              i don t think so, there is a specific fault code for this MustUnderstand (see 4.4.1) Cheers Simon
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                i don't think so, there is a specific fault code for this
                MustUnderstand (see 4.4.1)

                Cheers
                Simon

                On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 00:15:09 -0500, in soap you wrote:

                >If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
                >right?
                >
                >
                >> -----Original Message-----
                >> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                >>
                >>
                >> Edited version:
                >>
                >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                >> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                >> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                >> request has an XML
                >> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
                >> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                >> the server
                >> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                >> type that the
                >> server implementation cannot decode."
                >>
                >> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                >>
                >> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                >>
                >> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                >> broken up into
                >> bulleted sections.
                >>
                >> Dave-the-Editor
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >> ---------------------~-~>
                >> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                >> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
                >> now and get started.
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                >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                >> -------_->
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                >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >> soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
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              • Matt Long
                You re right. I guess I m a bit loopy at 12:30am. ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                  You're right. I guess I'm a bit loopy at 12:30am.


                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:25 AM
                  > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                  >
                  >
                  > i don't think so, there is a specific fault code for this
                  > MustUnderstand (see 4.4.1)
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Simon
                  >
                  > On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 00:15:09 -0500, in soap you wrote:
                  >
                  > >If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried
                  > in the header
                  > >right?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> -----Original Message-----
                  > >> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                  > >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                  > >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG
                  > Notes section
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Edited version:
                  > >>
                  > >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the
                  > application will
                  > >> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                  > >> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                  > >> request has an XML
                  > >> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request
                  > includes a
                  > >> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                  > >> the server
                  > >> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                  > >> type that the
                  > >> server implementation cannot decode."
                  > >>
                  > >> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                  > >>
                  > >> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                  > >>
                  > >> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                  > >> broken up into
                  > >> bulleted sections.
                  > >>
                  > >> Dave-the-Editor
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > >> ---------------------~-~>
                  > >> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                  > >> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
                  > >> now and get started.
                  > >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/HTDXJD/uMSCAA/zf4EAA/WNqXlB/TM
                  > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >> -------_->
                  > >>
                  > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > >> soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >



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                • Andrew Layman
                  See SOAP 1.1 section 4.1 (http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/#_Toc478383507): If present, the SOAP Fault element MUST appear as a body entry and MUST NOT appear more
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                    See SOAP 1.1 section 4.1 (http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/#_Toc478383507):

                    "If present, the SOAP Fault element MUST appear as a body entry and MUST NOT
                    appear more than once within a Body element."


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                    To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:15 PM
                    Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section


                    If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
                    right?


                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                    > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                    >
                    >
                    > Edited version:
                    >
                    > "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                    > generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                    > generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                    > request has an XML
                    > namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
                    > mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                    > the server
                    > can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                    > type that the
                    > server implementation cannot decode."
                    >
                    > Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                    >
                    > The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                    >
                    > And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                    > broken up into
                    > bulleted sections.
                    >
                    > Dave-the-Editor
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ---------------------~-~>
                    > Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                    > software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
                    > now and get started.
                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/HTDXJD/uMSCAA/zf4EAA/WNqXlB/TM
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------
                    > -------_->
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                  • Andrew Layman
                    Instance is a term defined by the XML 1.0 specification. Roughly, this passage means that the mustUnderstand attribute must appear in the actual message as
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                      "Instance" is a term defined by the XML 1.0 specification. Roughly, this
                      passage means that the mustUnderstand attribute must appear in the actual
                      message as opposed to merely being declared in a schema somewhere. This
                      reason for this requirement is fairly straightforward: if one does not
                      "understand" an element, one may have no idea what any relevant schema might
                      assert about it.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Jake Savin" <jake@...>
                      To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:20 PM
                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section


                      The SOAP 1.1 spec, Section 4.2.3[1] says:

                      "[The mustUnderstand attribute] MUST appear in the instance in order to be
                      effective (see section 3 and 4.2.1).

                      Does "MUST appear in the instance" mean it must be "carried in the header"?

                      -Jake

                      on 4/1/01 10:15 PM, Matt Long at mlong@... wrote:

                      > If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
                      > right?
                      >
                      >
                      >> -----Original Message-----
                      >> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                      >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                      >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Edited version:
                      >>
                      >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                      >> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                      >> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                      >> request has an XML
                      >> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
                      >> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                      >> the server
                      >> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                      >> type that the
                      >> server implementation cannot decode."
                      >>
                      >> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                      >>
                      >> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                      >>
                      >> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                      >> broken up into
                      >> bulleted sections.
                      >>
                      >> Dave-the-Editor
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >> ---------------------~-~>
                      >> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                      >> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
                      >> now and get started.
                      >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/HTDXJD/uMSCAA/zf4EAA/WNqXlB/TM
                      >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                      >> -------_->
                      >>
                      >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >> soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                    • Glen Daniels
                      I liked the earlier version a bit better, actually. I might suggest the following slightly tweaked version: If a request cannot be processed by the server,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                        I liked the earlier version a bit better, actually. I might suggest the
                        following slightly tweaked version:

                        "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                        generate a fault. A variety of conditions might cause such a fault to be
                        generated, including but not limited to the following: an element or
                        attribute in the request with an XML namespace prefix which has not been
                        declared, an unprocessed header in the request with a mustUnderstand="1"
                        attribute, or a data element in the request of a type that the server
                        implementation cannot decode."

                        --Glen

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
                        To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:12 AM
                        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section


                        > Next rev:
                        >
                        > "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                        > respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                        request
                        > uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                        > returned; or if the request includes a
                        > mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a semantic which the server
                        can't
                        > process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                        server
                        > implementation cannot decode."
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                      • Jake Savin
                        Thanks for the clarification. -Jake
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                          Thanks for the clarification. -Jake

                          on 4/1/01 10:34 PM, Andrew Layman at yahoo@... wrote:

                          > See SOAP 1.1 section 4.1 (http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/#_Toc478383507):
                          >
                          > "If present, the SOAP Fault element MUST appear as a body entry and MUST NOT
                          > appear more than once within a Body element."
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                          > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:15 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                          >
                          >
                          > If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
                          > right?
                          >
                          >
                          >> -----Original Message-----
                          >> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                          >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                          >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Edited version:
                          >>
                          >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                          >> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                          >> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                          >> request has an XML
                          >> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
                          >> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                          >> the server
                          >> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                          >> type that the
                          >> server implementation cannot decode."
                          >>
                          >> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                          >>
                          >> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                          >>
                          >> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                          >> broken up into
                          >> bulleted sections.
                          >>
                          >> Dave-the-Editor
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          >> ---------------------~-~>
                          >> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                          >> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
                          >> now and get started.
                          >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/HTDXJD/uMSCAA/zf4EAA/WNqXlB/TM
                          >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                          >> -------_->
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                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Jake Savin
                          Cool -- this makes sense to me esp. from an interop point of view. Given this understanding, is there anything in the wording of the proposed addition to BDG
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                            Cool -- this makes sense to me esp. from an interop point of view.

                            Given this understanding, is there anything in the wording of the proposed
                            addition to BDG which needs to be changed?

                            -Jake

                            on 4/1/01 10:38 PM, Andrew Layman at yahoo@... wrote:

                            > "Instance" is a term defined by the XML 1.0 specification. Roughly, this
                            > passage means that the mustUnderstand attribute must appear in the actual
                            > message as opposed to merely being declared in a schema somewhere. This
                            > reason for this requirement is fairly straightforward: if one does not
                            > "understand" an element, one may have no idea what any relevant schema might
                            > assert about it.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Jake Savin" <jake@...>
                            > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:20 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                            >
                            >
                            > The SOAP 1.1 spec, Section 4.2.3[1] says:
                            >
                            > "[The mustUnderstand attribute] MUST appear in the instance in order to be
                            > effective (see section 3 and 4.2.1).
                            >
                            > Does "MUST appear in the instance" mean it must be "carried in the header"?
                            >
                            > -Jake
                            >
                            > on 4/1/01 10:15 PM, Matt Long at mlong@... wrote:
                            >
                            >> If mustUnderstand generates a fault, then it must be carried in the header
                            >> right?
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>> -----Original Message-----
                            >>> From: Dave Winer [mailto:dave@...]
                            >>> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:09 AM
                            >>> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            >>> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> Edited version:
                            >>>
                            >>> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                            >>> generate a fault. Examples of events which should
                            >>> generate a fault include: an element or attribute in the
                            >>> request has an XML
                            >>> namespace prefix which has not been declared; the request includes a
                            >>> mustUnderstand attribute, which applies to a semantic which
                            >>> the server
                            >>> can't process; or the request contains a data element of a
                            >>> type that the
                            >>> server implementation cannot decode."
                            >>>
                            >>> Jake took my dictation too literally. ;->
                            >>>
                            >>> The word "responsible" was not necessary.
                            >>>
                            >>> And even though it's a hugely long sentence, it should not be
                            >>> broken up into
                            >>> bulleted sections.
                            >>>
                            >>> Dave-the-Editor
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >>> ---------------------~-~>
                            >>> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000
                            >>> software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register
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                          • Jake Savin
                            I like this -- thanks, Glen. It makes it more clear that there may be other conditions which generate a fault. I may try to make it a little more concise
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 1, 2001
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                              I like this -- thanks, Glen.

                              It makes it more clear that there may be other conditions which generate a
                              fault. I may try to make it a little more concise though, but I want to hear
                              more feedback first.

                              -Jake

                              on 4/1/01 10:40 PM, Glen Daniels at gdaniels@... wrote:

                              > I liked the earlier version a bit better, actually. I might suggest the
                              > following slightly tweaked version:
                              >
                              > "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application will
                              > generate a fault. A variety of conditions might cause such a fault to be
                              > generated, including but not limited to the following: an element or
                              > attribute in the request with an XML namespace prefix which has not been
                              > declared, an unprocessed header in the request with a mustUnderstand="1"
                              > attribute, or a data element in the request of a type that the server
                              > implementation cannot decode."
                              >
                              > --Glen
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
                              > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:12 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                              >
                              >
                              >> Next rev:
                              >>
                              >> "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                              >> respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                              > request
                              >> uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                              >> returned; or if the request includes a
                              >> mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a semantic which the server
                              > can't
                              >> process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                              > server
                              >> implementation cannot decode."
                              >>
                              >> Dave
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
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                              >> soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >>
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                              >>
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                            • Doug Davis
                              It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses to ignore (like the BDG is
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                claim that its not SOAP. Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                header and used that information correctly. Seems like being lied
                                to is a bit of a problem.

                                This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).

                                -Dug


                                "Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM

                                Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com

                                To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                cc:
                                Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section



                                Next rev:

                                "If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                request
                                uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                returned; or if the request includes a
                                mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a  semantic which the server
                                can't
                                process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                server
                                implementation cannot decode."

                                Dave



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                              • Simon Fell
                                a SOAP processor really should check this. But there s a lot that don t (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i tested failed to fault on
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                  a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                  don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                  tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including MS
                                  TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon


                                  On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:

                                  >It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                  >crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                  >to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                  >claim that its not SOAP. Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                  >to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                  >must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                  >message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                  >the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                  >header and used that information correctly. Seems like being lied
                                  >to is a bit of a problem.
                                  >
                                  >This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                  >I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                  >fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                  >
                                  >-Dug
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >"Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                  >
                                  >Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >cc:
                                  >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Next rev:
                                  >
                                  >"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                  >respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                  >request
                                  >uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                  >returned; or if the request includes a
                                  >mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a  semantic which the server
                                  >can't
                                  >process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                  >server
                                  >implementation cannot decode."
                                  >
                                  >Dave
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Dave Winer
                                  The conference call is going on now. Simon, are you on it? Dave ... From: Simon Fell To: Sent: Monday,
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                    The conference call is going on now. Simon, are you on it? Dave


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Simon Fell" <soap@...>
                                    To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:32 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section


                                    a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                    don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                    tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including MS
                                    TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon


                                    On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:

                                    >It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                    >crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                    >to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                    >claim that its not SOAP. Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                    >to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                    >must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                    >message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                    >the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                    >header and used that information correctly. Seems like being lied
                                    >to is a bit of a problem.
                                    >
                                    >This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                    >I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                    >fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                    >
                                    >-Dug
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >"Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                    >
                                    >Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >cc:
                                    >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Next rev:
                                    >
                                    >"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                    >respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                    >request
                                    >uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                    >returned; or if the request includes a
                                    >mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a semantic which the server
                                    >can't
                                    >process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                    >server
                                    >implementation cannot decode."
                                    >
                                    >Dave
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Doug Davis
                                    Yup - and they shouldn t call themselves SOAP. 8-) (btw - the latest Apache will/can do it with some config) -Dug Simon Fell on
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                      Yup - and they shouldn't call themselves SOAP. 8-)
                                      (btw - the latest Apache will/can do it with some config)
                                      -Dug

                                      Simon Fell <soap@...> on 04/02/2001 01:32:44 PM

                                      Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com

                                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      cc:
                                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section



                                      a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                      don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                      tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including MS
                                      TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon


                                      On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:

                                      >It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                      >crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                      >to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                      >claim that its not SOAP.  Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                      >to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                      >must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                      >message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                      >the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                      >header and used that information correctly.  Seems like being lied
                                      >to is a bit of a problem.
                                      >
                                      >This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                      >I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                      >fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                      >
                                      >-Dug
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >"Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                      >
                                      >Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >To:   <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >cc:
                                      >Subject:  Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Next rev:
                                      >
                                      >"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                      >respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                      >request
                                      >uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                      >returned; or if the request includes a
                                      >mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a  semantic which the server
                                      >can't
                                      >process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                      >server
                                      >implementation cannot decode."
                                      >
                                      >Dave
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • Simon Fell
                                      just dialed in
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                        just dialed in

                                        On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:38:18 -0700, in soap you wrote:

                                        >The conference call is going on now. Simon, are you on it? Dave
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: "Simon Fell" <soap@...>
                                        >To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:32 AM
                                        >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                        >don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                        >tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including MS
                                        >TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !
                                        >
                                        >Cheers
                                        >Simon
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                        >>crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                        >>to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                        >>claim that its not SOAP. Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                        >>to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                        >>must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                        >>message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                        >>the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                        >>header and used that information correctly. Seems like being lied
                                        >>to is a bit of a problem.
                                        >>
                                        >>This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                        >>I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                        >>fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                        >>
                                        >>-Dug
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>"Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                        >>
                                        >>Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                        >>
                                        >>To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >>cc:
                                        >>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Next rev:
                                        >>
                                        >>"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                        >>respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                        >>request
                                        >>uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                        >>returned; or if the request includes a
                                        >>mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a semantic which the server
                                        >>can't
                                        >>process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                        >>server
                                        >>implementation cannot decode."
                                        >>
                                        >>Dave
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
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                                      • Simon Fell
                                        Yes, but Glen found a bug in it. You need the current CVS source drop for the config option to work. Cheers Simon
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                          Yes, but Glen found a bug in it. You need the current CVS source drop
                                          for the config option to work.

                                          Cheers
                                          Simon

                                          On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:38:41 -0400, in soap you wrote:

                                          >Yup - and they shouldn't call themselves SOAP. 8-)
                                          >(btw - the latest Apache will/can do it with some config)
                                          >-Dug
                                          >
                                          >Simon Fell <soap@...> on 04/02/2001 01:32:44 PM
                                          >
                                          >Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          >cc:
                                          >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                          >don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                          >tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including MS
                                          >TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !
                                          >
                                          >Cheers
                                          >Simon
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:
                                          >
                                          >>It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                          >>crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                          >>to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined to
                                          >>claim that its not SOAP.  Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client trying
                                          >>to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                          >>must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                          >>message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                          >>the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                          >>header and used that information correctly.  Seems like being lied
                                          >>to is a bit of a problem.
                                          >>
                                          >>This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                          >>I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                          >>fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                          >>
                                          >>-Dug
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>"Dave Winer" <dave@...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                          >>
                                          >>Please respond to soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          >>
                                          >>To:   <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >>cc:
                                          >>Subject:  Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes section
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Next rev:
                                          >>
                                          >>"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application must
                                          >>respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in the
                                          >>request
                                          >>uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault response must be
                                          >>returned; or if the request includes a
                                          >>mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a  semantic which the server
                                          >>can't
                                          >>process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that the
                                          >>server
                                          >>implementation cannot decode."
                                          >>
                                          >>Dave
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
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                                        • dug@us.ibm.com
                                          that s what I meant by the latest - sorry I wasn t clear. -Dug ... drop ... section ... MS ... to ... trying ... section ... must ... the ... response must
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Apr 2, 2001
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                                            that's what I meant by the "latest" - sorry I wasn't clear.
                                            -Dug

                                            --- In soapbuilders@y..., Simon Fell <soap@z...> wrote:
                                            > Yes, but Glen found a bug in it. You need the current CVS source
                                            drop
                                            > for the config option to work.
                                            >
                                            > Cheers
                                            > Simon
                                            >
                                            > On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:38:41 -0400, in soap you wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >Yup - and they shouldn't call themselves SOAP. 8-)
                                            > >(btw - the latest Apache will/can do it with some config)
                                            > >-Dug
                                            > >
                                            > >Simon Fell <soap@z...> on 04/02/2001 01:32:44 PM
                                            > >
                                            > >Please respond to soapbuilders@y...
                                            > >
                                            > >To: soapbuilders@y...
                                            > >cc:
                                            > >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes
                                            section
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > a SOAP processor really should check this. But there's a lot that
                                            > >don't (as of last night, 4s4c was the only that did, all the rest i
                                            > >tested failed to fault on a header with mustUnderstand=1 including
                                            MS
                                            > >TK2 & Apache). There's a alot of not SOAP around then !
                                            > >
                                            > >Cheers
                                            > >Simon
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:41:18 -0400, in soap you wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >>It seems like the mustUnderstand processing is one of those
                                            > >>crucial pieces of the SOAP spec that if an implementation chooses
                                            > >>to ignore (like the BDG is choosing to) then I would be inclined
                                            to
                                            > >>claim that its not SOAP.  Here's my thinking..I'm a SOAP client
                                            trying
                                            > >>to talk to a BDG SOAP server but I have some critical header that
                                            > >>must be understood and processed otherwise I don't want the
                                            > >>message to go through, a BDG server will accept it and process
                                            > >>the message - and I'll incorrectly assume that it understood my
                                            > >>header and used that information correctly.  Seems like being lied
                                            > >>to is a bit of a problem.
                                            > >>
                                            > >>This might not be limited to the mustUnderstandd processing too.
                                            > >>I'm wondering if Keith's MUST and MUST NOT list needs to be
                                            > >>fully implemented (or maybe just the MUST side).
                                            > >>
                                            > >>-Dug
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>"Dave Winer" <dave@u...> on 04/02/2001 01:12:01 AM
                                            > >>
                                            > >>Please respond to soapbuilders@y...
                                            > >>
                                            > >>To:   <soapbuilders@y...>
                                            > >>cc:
                                            > >>Subject:  Re: [soapbuilders] Proposed addition to the BDG Notes
                                            section
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Next rev:
                                            > >>
                                            > >>"If a request cannot be processed by the server, the application
                                            must
                                            > >>respond with a fault. For example, if an element or attribute in
                                            the
                                            > >>request
                                            > >>uses an XML namespace that has not been declared, a fault
                                            response must be
                                            > >>returned; or if the request includes a
                                            > >>mustUnderstand attribute which applies to a  semantic which the
                                            server
                                            > >>can't
                                            > >>process; or if the request contains a data element of a type that
                                            the
                                            > >>server
                                            > >>implementation cannot decode."
                                            > >>
                                            > >>Dave
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
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