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RE: [soapbuilders] multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

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  • Matt Long
    Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should_ be imported. While current SoapBuilder WSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don t see why soap-enc namespace should be
    Message 1 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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      Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should_ be imported.  While current SoapBuilder WSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don’t see why soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

       

      Multiple schemas should not be an issue, if the ref each other then they should be imported…but if they contain the ‘same’ targetNamespace should they be imported?!?  From a ‘best practice’ standpoint I don’t care for this scenario.

       

      Opinions?!?

       

      Thx,

       

      -Matt Long

       

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
      Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:12 AM
      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [soapbuilders] multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

       

      Sam,

      Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file

       - there are no 'import' statements in any of the schemas. This means they
         cannot reference items in each other. There are no special rules about
         a schema contained in WSDL in relation to this, or are there? The schema
         spec is clear about the requirement to use import for this (although the soap-enc
         namespace seems to be an exception)

       - does Axis generate the same supporting schemas into each WSDL file? If so
         then a soap node could use any of these to satisfy the need to find a schema
         with the required namespace (without a schemaLocation on an import that is).
         So if I have A.wsdl and B.wsdl and they both contain a complete definition
         of targetNamespace "X/xsd" then while processing A.wsdl there is nothing to
         stop the soap node from using the schema in B.wsdl (which it may already have
         parsed and have available) to satisfy the references? This is obviously not
         what would be intended when the schema is included in the same wsdl file.
       
       - should these fixed schemas not be made available in one location and pointed
          to from each WSDL rather than reproduced in each WSDL file. This would
          get around the 2 problems above.


      If the above observations are correct then it seems to me Axis is expecting other schema processors to act in a way compatible with the WSDL it generates, but which does not necessarily follow the schema spec. Not great for interop. It doesn't feel right to put special logic in our parser for this.

      Or am I missing something related to schema use in a WSDL file?

      Pete

      Sam Ruby wrote:

      Rich Saltz wrote:
      I don't have any problem with the Apache map stuff; ZSI has supported it
      for a while, e.g.

      What is the .NET problem with it?  If I create a WSDL file and define
      something analogous will the tool blow up?  Or is it just that it's not
      supported as a native datatype?

      You can find an Apache Axis generated WSDL at
      http://nagoya.apache.org:5049/axis/services/echo?wsdl

      It contains a schema definition for a Map.  When you attempt to generate a
      proxy from this using the .NET WSDL utility, you get the following:

      Error: Unable to import binding 'echoSoapBinding' from namespace
      'http://nagoya.apache.org/axis/services/echo'.
        - Unable to import operation 'echoMap'.
        - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

      Note: it is not my intent to rathole on this one issue, but I do think that
      attempting to capture and discuss actual experiences would be a worthwhile
      exercise.

      - Sam Ruby


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    • Pete Hendry
      ... I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should error with the current schemas
      Message 2 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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        Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don’t see why soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

        I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should error with the current schemas being generated.

         

        Multiple schemas should not be an issue, if the ref each other then they should be imported…but if they contain the ‘same’ targetNamespace should they be imported?!?  From a ‘best practice’ standpoint I don’t care for this scenario.

        If they use the same targetNamespace then they should be 'include'd. To me a schema is a unit of definition. If I have a file A.xsd and another B.xsd and they have the same targetNamespace "urn:x" then they should either be the same (so it doesn't matter which is loaded) or one should include the other. Redefine is an interesting case as it requires application separation for the loaded schemas.

        We wanted to have a schema manager to load and generally manage schemas without any knowledge of the classes using it (an independent module). However, if an application A refers to schema "A.xsd" and another application B refers to schema "B.xsd" that includes A.xsd and redefines some elements (using redefine), then both applications are working with the same targetNamespace, but the applications see different schema contents. The schemaLocation was therefore included as a distinguishing factor when looking up a schema (which has the drawback that multiple schemas may import the same schema from different physical locations and will get different instances but with the same content - schemaLocation is only a hint but because of redefine it becomes significant). Or should the redefined schema apply globally (the spec is not clear on this but since schemaLocation is a 'hint' then the parser could load the schema with redefine in it for both applications - redefine seems a little dangerous to me in this respect).

        Opinions?!?

         

        I think this should be fixed for interop since we should at least conform to the schema spec in testing.

        Pete

        Thx,

         

        -Matt Long

         

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
        Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:12 AM
        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [soapbuilders] multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

         

        Sam,

        Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file

         - there are no 'import' statements in any of the schemas. This means they
           cannot reference items in each other. There are no special rules about
           a schema contained in WSDL in relation to this, or are there? The schema
           spec is clear about the requirement to use import for this (although the soap-enc
           namespace seems to be an exception)

         - does Axis generate the same supporting schemas into each WSDL file? If so
           then a soap node could use any of these to satisfy the need to find a schema
           with the required namespace (without a schemaLocation on an import that is).
           So if I have A.wsdl and B.wsdl and they both contain a complete definition
           of targetNamespace "X/xsd" then while processing A.wsdl there is nothing to
           stop the soap node from using the schema in B.wsdl (which it may already have
           parsed and have available) to satisfy the references? This is obviously not
           what would be intended when the schema is included in the same wsdl file.
         
         - should these fixed schemas not be made available in one location and pointed
            to from each WSDL rather than reproduced in each WSDL file. This would
            get around the 2 problems above.


        If the above observations are correct then it seems to me Axis is expecting other schema processors to act in a way compatible with the WSDL it generates, but which does not necessarily follow the schema spec. Not great for interop. It doesn't feel right to put special logic in our parser for this.

        Or am I missing something related to schema use in a WSDL file?

        Pete

        Sam Ruby wrote:

        Rich Saltz wrote:
        I don't have any problem with the Apache map stuff; ZSI has supported it

        for a while, e.g.



        What is the .NET problem with it?  If I create a WSDL file and define

        something analogous will the tool blow up?  Or is it just that it's not

        supported as a native datatype?


        You can find an Apache Axis generated WSDL at

        http://nagoya.apache.org:5049/axis/services/echo?wsdl



        It contains a schema definition for a Map.  When you attempt to generate a

        proxy from this using the .NET WSDL utility, you get the following:



        Error: Unable to import binding 'echoSoapBinding' from namespace

        'http://nagoya.apache.org/axis/services/echo'.

          - Unable to import operation 'echoMap'.

          - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.



        Note: it is not my intent to rathole on this one issue, but I do think that

        attempting to captu re and discuss actual experiences would be a worthwhile

        exercise.



        - Sam Ruby





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      • simonfell99
        ... Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last SOAPBuilders F2F. I m less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be imported, I don t recall any
        Message 3 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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          --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
          > > SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
          > > soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
          > I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
          > It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
          > error with the current schemas being generated.

          Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
          SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
          imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
          WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

          Cheers
          Simon
          www.pocketsoap.com
        • Pete Hendry
          soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType Obviously the wsdl schema
          Message 4 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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            soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

              <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

            Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present in the schema.

            Pete

            simonfell99 wrote:
            --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

            Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
            SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
            soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
            I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. 
            It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
            error with the current schemas being generated.

            Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
            SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
            imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
            WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

            Cheers
            Simon
            www.pocketsoap.com


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          • Simon Fell
            Hi, But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any of the schema defined element / attribute. Cheers Simon www.pocketsoap.com
            Message 5 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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              Hi,

              But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
              of the schema defined element / attribute.

              Cheers
              Simon
              www.pocketsoap.com

              On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

              >soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
              >
              > <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
              >
              >Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present
              >in the schema.
              >
              >Pete
              >
              >simonfell99 wrote:
              >
              >>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
              >>
              >>>>
              >>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
              >>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
              >>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
              >>>>
              >>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
              >>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
              >>>error with the current schemas being generated.
              >>>
              >>
              >>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
              >>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
              >>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
              >>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
              >>
              >>Cheers
              >>Simon
              >>www.pocketsoap.com
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
              >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
              >>
              >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >>
              >>
            • Matt Long
              Yup, U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate. Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM
              Message 6 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                Yup,

                U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate.

                Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                Thx,

                -Matt Long
                Phalanx Systems, LLC





                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                > Suggestion?)
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                > of the schema defined element / attribute.
                >
                > Cheers
                > Simon
                > www.pocketsoap.com
                >
                > On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                >
                > >soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                > >
                > > <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                > >
                > >Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                present
                > >in the schema.
                > >
                > >Pete
                > >
                > >simonfell99 wrote:
                > >
                > >>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                > >>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
                > >>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                > >>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                > >>>>
                > >>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                > >>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                > >>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                > >>>
                > >>
                > >>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                > >>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                > >>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                > >>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                > >>
                > >>Cheers
                > >>Simon
                > >>www.pocketsoap.com
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                > >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                discuss
                > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                > >>
                > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >>
                > >>
                >
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              • Pete Hendry
                Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in SOAP-ENC:arrayType as lax mean
                Message 7 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                  Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not need to be resolved to its schema?

                  Pete

                  Simon Fell wrote:
                  Hi,

                  But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                  of the schema defined element / attribute.

                  Cheers
                  Simon
                  www.pocketsoap.com

                  On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                  soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                  <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                  Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present
                  in the schema.

                  Pete

                  simonfell99 wrote:

                  --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                  Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current 
                  SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                  soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                  I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. 
                  It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                  error with the current schemas being generated.

                  Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last 
                  SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                  imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                  WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                  Cheers
                  Simon
                  www.pocketsoap.com



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                • Pete Hendry
                  ... This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents= lax then would
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                    U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                    or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate.
                    This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents="lax" then would the value of the wsdl:arrayType not have to be validated to make sure it is valid with respect to the schema in which it is defined (e.g. to check it is an int or whatever)? This would require loading the wsdl schema and so would require an import. It gets a bit hairy when you have to go off and find if the definition of an attribute matches an anyAttribute in another schema with processContents="lax". I'd generally rather import the schema for peace of mind. Of course, a conforming parser would work this all out and the schema would not need to be imported (which is what the question was in the first place).

                    Rereading that and I'm confusing myself :-)

                    Pete

                    Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                    declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                    with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                    Thx,

                    -Matt Long
                    Phalanx Systems, LLC





                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                    To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                    Suggestion?)

                    Hi,

                    But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                    of the schema defined element / attribute.

                    Cheers
                    Simon
                    www.pocketsoap.com

                    On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                    soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                    <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                    wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                    Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                    present
                    in the schema.

                    Pete

                    simonfell99 wrote:

                    --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                    Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current
                    SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                    soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                    I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                    It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                    error with the current schemas being generated.

                    Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                    SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                    imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                    WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                    Cheers
                    Simon
                    www.pocketsoap.com



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                    implementation and interoperability issues.  Please stay on-topic.
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                  • Matt Long
                    Pete, How do you validate something that does not exist, i.e., wsdl:arrayType= xsd:string[,] ? Or is this the right question to even ask, Gudge Help!
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                      Pete,

                       

                      How do you validate something that does not exist, i.e., wsdl:arrayType=”xsd:string[,]”    ?

                       

                      Or is this the right question to even ask,   Gudge Help!

                       

                      Thx,

                       

                      -Matt Long

                      Phalanx Systems, LLC

                       

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
                      Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:11 AM
                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                       

                      U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                      or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate. 

                      This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents="lax" then would the value of the wsdl:arrayType not have to be validated to make sure it is valid with respect to the schema in which it is defined (e.g. to check it is an int or whatever)? This would require loading the wsdl schema and so would require an import. It gets a bit hairy when you have to go off and find if the definition of an attribute matches an anyAttribute in another schema with processContents="lax". I'd generally rather import the schema for peace of mind. Of course, a conforming parser would work this all out and the schema would not need to be imported (which is what the question was in the first place).

                      Rereading that and I'm confusing myself :-)

                      Pete


                      Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                      declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                      with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                      Thx,

                      -Matt Long
                      Phalanx Systems, LLC




                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                      Suggestion?)

                      Hi,

                      But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                      of the schema defined element / attribute.

                      Cheers
                      Simon
                      www.pocketsoap.com

                      On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                      soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                       <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                      wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                      Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                      present
                      in the schema.

                      Pete

                      simonfell99 wrote:
                      --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                      Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current
                      SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                      soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                      I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                      It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                      error with the current schemas being generated.
                      Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                      SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                      imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                      WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                      Cheers
                      Simon
                      www.pocketsoap.com



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                    • simonfell99
                      I don t think there s a requirement for schema documents to import all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the schema spec and didn t
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                        all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                        schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                        i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                        want to jump in first]

                        FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                        import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                        option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                        require an import for wsdl.

                        Cheers
                        Simon
                        www.pocketsoap.com

                        --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                        > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                        > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                        > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                        > need to be resolved to its schema?
                        >
                        > Pete
                        >
                        > Simon Fell wrote:
                        >
                        > >Hi,
                        > >
                        > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                        any
                        > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                        > >
                        > >Cheers
                        > >Simon
                        > >www.pocketsoap.com
                        > >
                        > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                        > >>
                        > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                        wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                        > >>
                        > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                        present
                        > >>in the schema.
                        > >>
                        > >>Pete
                        > >>
                        > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                        > >>>
                        > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                        current
                        > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                        > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                        > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                        > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                        > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                        should be
                        > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                        the
                        > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                        > >>>
                        > >>>Cheers
                        > >>>Simon
                        > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                        discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                        topic.
                        > >>>
                        > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                        discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                        topic.
                        > >
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                      • Simon Horrell
                        [inline] Si. ... From: simonfell99 To: Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:52 PM Subject: [soapbuilders] Re:
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          [inline]
                          Si.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                          To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:52 PM
                          Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                          Suggestion?)


                          > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                          > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                          > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                          > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                          > want to jump in first]

                          [Si H] I'm *not* one of the schema guys but that is certainly my take. When
                          defining an XML schema, it is possible to reference constructs
                          (complex/simple types, global element/attributes decls, group, attribute
                          groups) from namespaces other than the schema's targetNamespace (let's call
                          them an external namespace). As long as the software that processes the
                          schema document (i.e. a schema processor) is told about (or already knows
                          about) the relationships between the referenced external namespaces and the
                          location of the schemas that describes them before it processes the schema
                          document then everything should be fine. Strikes me that xsd:import is but
                          one way you could specify this relationship. Bear in mind that the location
                          attribute of xsd:import is optional anyway.

                          >
                          > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                          > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                          > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                          > require an import for wsdl.
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          > Simon
                          > www.pocketsoap.com
                          >
                          > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                          > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                          > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                          > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                          > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                          > >
                          > > Pete
                          > >
                          > > Simon Fell wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >Hi,
                          > > >
                          > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                          > any
                          > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                          > > >
                          > > >Cheers
                          > > >Simon
                          > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                          > > >
                          > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                          > > >>
                          > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                          > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                          > > >>
                          > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                          > present
                          > > >>in the schema.
                          > > >>
                          > > >>Pete
                          > > >>
                          > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                          > > >>
                          > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                          > current
                          > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                          > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                          > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                          > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                          > > >>>>
                          > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                          > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                          > should be
                          > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                          > the
                          > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>Cheers
                          > > >>>Simon
                          > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                          > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                          > topic.
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                          > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                          > topic.
                          > > >
                          > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                          implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                        • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                          A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a reference to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a reference
                            to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:

                            <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                            ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                            <xsd:annotation>
                            <xsd:documentation>
                            <html:body> ...</html:body>
                            </xsd:documentation>
                            </xsd:annotation>
                            </xsd:element>

                            ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema type
                            ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,

                            <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                            I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types are
                            pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                            this point in future publications.

                            By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the type
                            ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to import
                            ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a need in
                            the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general, <import>
                            is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                            acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                            document.

                            Hope this helps.

                            ------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                            IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                            One Rogers Street
                            Cambridge, MA 02142
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------







                            "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                            05/03/02 12:52 PM
                            Please respond to soapbuilders


                            To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                            Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                            I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                            all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                            schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                            i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                            want to jump in first]

                            FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                            import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                            option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                            require an import for wsdl.

                            Cheers
                            Simon
                            www.pocketsoap.com

                            --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                            > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                            > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                            > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                            > need to be resolved to its schema?
                            >
                            > Pete
                            >
                            > Simon Fell wrote:
                            >
                            > >Hi,
                            > >
                            > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                            any
                            > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                            > >
                            > >Cheers
                            > >Simon
                            > >www.pocketsoap.com
                            > >
                            > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                            > >
                            > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                            > >>
                            > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                            wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                            > >>
                            > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                            present
                            > >>in the schema.
                            > >>
                            > >>Pete
                            > >>
                            > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                            > >>>
                            > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                            current
                            > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                            > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                            > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                            > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                            > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                            should be
                            > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                            the
                            > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                            > >>>
                            > >>>Cheers
                            > >>>Simon
                            > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                            topic.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                            topic.
                            > >
                            > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >



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                          • Matt Long
                            For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However, the wsdl namespace
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                              below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                              the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                              an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                              Fair summary?

                              Thx,

                              -Matt Long
                              Phalanx Systems, LLC


                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                              > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                              > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                              > Suggestion?)
                              >
                              > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                              reference
                              > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                              >
                              > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                              > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                              > <xsd:annotation>
                              > <xsd:documentation>
                              > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                              > </xsd:documentation>
                              > </xsd:annotation>
                              > </xsd:element>
                              >
                              > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                              type
                              > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                              >
                              > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                              >
                              > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                              are
                              > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                              > this point in future publications.
                              >
                              > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                              type
                              > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                              import
                              > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                              need in
                              > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                              <import>
                              > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                              > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                              > document.
                              >
                              > Hope this helps.
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                              > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                              > One Rogers Street
                              > Cambridge, MA 02142
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                              > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                              > Please respond to soapbuilders
                              >
                              >
                              > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                              > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                              > question (was Suggestion?)
                              >
                              > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                              > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                              > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                              > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                              > want to jump in first]
                              >
                              > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                              > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                              > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                              > require an import for wsdl.
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > Simon
                              > www.pocketsoap.com
                              >
                              > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                              > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                              > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                              > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                              > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                              > >
                              > > Pete
                              > >
                              > > Simon Fell wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >Hi,
                              > > >
                              > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                              > any
                              > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                              > > >
                              > > >Cheers
                              > > >Simon
                              > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                              > > >
                              > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                              > > >>
                              > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                              > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                              > present
                              > > >>in the schema.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Pete
                              > > >>
                              > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                              > current
                              > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                              > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                              > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                              > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                              > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                              > should be
                              > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                              > the
                              > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>Cheers
                              > > >>>Simon
                              > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                              > topic.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                              > topic.
                              > > >
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                            • Simon Fell
                              sounds good to me. Cheers Simon www.pocketsoap.com
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                sounds good to me.

                                Cheers
                                Simon
                                www.pocketsoap.com

                                On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:

                                >For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                >below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                >the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                >an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                >
                                >Fair summary?
                                >
                                >Thx,
                                >
                                >-Matt Long
                                >Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                >
                                >
                                >> -----Original Message-----
                                >> From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                >> Suggestion?)
                                >>
                                >> A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                >reference
                                >> to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                >>
                                >> <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                >> ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                >> <xsd:annotation>
                                >> <xsd:documentation>
                                >> <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                >> </xsd:documentation>
                                >> </xsd:annotation>
                                >> </xsd:element>
                                >>
                                >> ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                >type
                                >> ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                >>
                                >> <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                >>
                                >> I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                >are
                                >> pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                >> this point in future publications.
                                >>
                                >> By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                >type
                                >> ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                >import
                                >> ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                >need in
                                >> the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                ><import>
                                >> is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                >> acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                >> document.
                                >>
                                >> Hope this helps.
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >> Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                >> IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                >> One Rogers Street
                                >> Cambridge, MA 02142
                                >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                >> 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                >> Please respond to soapbuilders
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                >> cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                >> Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                >> question (was Suggestion?)
                                >>
                                >> I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                >> all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                >> schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                >> i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                >> want to jump in first]
                                >>
                                >> FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                >> import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                >> option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                >> require an import for wsdl.
                                >>
                                >> Cheers
                                >> Simon
                                >> www.pocketsoap.com
                                >>
                                >> --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                >> > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                >> > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                >> > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                >> > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                >> >
                                >> > Pete
                                >> >
                                >> > Simon Fell wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > >Hi,
                                >> > >
                                >> > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                >> any
                                >> > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                >> > >
                                >> > >Cheers
                                >> > >Simon
                                >> > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                >> > >
                                >> > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                >> > >
                                >> > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                >> > >>
                                >> > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                >> wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                >> > >>
                                >> > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                >> present
                                >> > >>in the schema.
                                >> > >>
                                >> > >>Pete
                                >> > >>
                                >> > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                >> > >>
                                >> > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                >> > >>>
                                >> > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                >> current
                                >> > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                >> > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                >> > >>>>>
                                >> > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                >> > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                >> > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                >> > >>>>
                                >> > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                >> > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                >> should be
                                >> > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                >> the
                                >> > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                >> > >>>
                                >> > >>>Cheers
                                >> > >>>Simon
                                >> > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                >> > >>>
                                >> > >>>
                                >> > >>>
                                >> > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                >> > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                >> discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                >> topic.
                                >> > >>>
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                                >> > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                >> > >>>
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                                >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                >> discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                >> topic.
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                                >>
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                              • Pete Hendry
                                I m not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                   

                                  <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                  and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?

                                  I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?

                                  Pete
                                     

                                  Simon Fell wrote:
                                  sounds good to me.

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon
                                  www.pocketsoap.com

                                  On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:

                                  For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                  below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                  the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                  an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                  Fair summary?

                                  Thx,

                                  -Matt Long
                                  Phalanx Systems, LLC


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                  To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                  Suggestion?)

                                  A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                  reference
                                  to a schema component.  Thus, in the following fragment:

                                  <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                  ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                  <xsd:annotation>
                                  <xsd:documentation>
                                  <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                  </xsd:documentation>
                                  </xsd:annotation>
                                  </xsd:element>

                                  ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                  type
                                  ns1:t.  ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported.  In the example,

                                  <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                                  I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                  are
                                  pre-imported.  I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                  this point in future publications.

                                  By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                  type
                                  ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                  import
                                  ns5 in this schema document.  (There almost surely would be such a
                                  need in
                                  the schema document for the target namespace ns1.)    In general,
                                  <import>
                                  is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                  acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                  document.

                                  Hope this helps.

                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                  IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                  One Rogers Street
                                  Cambridge, MA 02142
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                  "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                  05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                  Please respond to soapbuilders


                                  To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                  cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                  Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multip le schemas in WSDL
                                  question (was Suggestion?)

                                  I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                  all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                  schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                  i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                  want to jump in first]

                                  FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                  import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                  option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                  require an import for wsdl.

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon
                                  www.pocketsoap.com

                                  --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                  Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                  it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                  SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                  need to be resolved to its schema?

                                  Pete

                                  Simon Fell wrote:

                                  Hi,

                                  But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                  any
                                  of the schema defined element / attribute.

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon
                                  www.pocketsoap.com

                                  On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                                  soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                                  <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                  wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                  Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                  present
                                  in the schema.

                                  Pete

                                  simonfell99 wrote:

                                  --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                                  Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While
                                  current
                                  SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                  soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                                  I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                  It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                  error with the current schemas being generated.

                                  Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                  SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                  should be
                                  imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                  the
                                  WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon
                                  www.pocketsoap.com



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                                • Simon Fell
                                  right, _Your_ processing might require the schema for the wsdl namespace, but that doesn t mean that XSD mandates an element. How is this
                                  Message 16 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    right, _Your_ processing might require the schema for the wsdl
                                    namespace, but that doesn't mean that XSD mandates an <xsd:import>
                                    element.

                                    How is this different to a validating soap server ?, i have one that
                                    takes messages like
                                    <Envelope xmlns="...">
                                    <Body>
                                    <foo xmlns="urn:example.org">
                                    </foo>
                                    </Body>
                                    </Envelope>

                                    My processing requires access to a schema for urn:example.org to
                                    validate the message, but that doesn't change the format of the
                                    message.

                                    If you want to handle wsdl:arrayType, then you need to know the
                                    metadata that its a string (of a particular format), but that metadata
                                    doesn't have to be fetched from a schema. [in my WSDL impl, its hard
                                    coded, its not like it can change]. Of course, if you're building
                                    something that handles arbitrary schema extensions, then the schema
                                    would be nice, but shouldn't require <xsd:imports> in the schema
                                    document.

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon
                                    www.pocketsoap.com

                                    On Sat, 04 May 2002 13:21:14 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                                    >I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl.
                                    >If I have
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ><xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                    >
                                    >and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?
                                    >
                                    >I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?
                                    >
                                    >Pete
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Simon Fell wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>sounds good to me.
                                    >>
                                    >>Cheers
                                    >>Simon
                                    >>www.pocketsoap.com
                                    >>
                                    >>On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>>For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                    >>>below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                    >>>the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                    >>>an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Fair summary?
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Thx,
                                    >>>
                                    >>>-Matt Long
                                    >>>Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                    >>>>From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                    >>>>Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                    >>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                    >>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                    >>>>Suggestion?)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>reference
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                    >>>>ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                    >>>> <xsd:annotation>
                                    >>>> <xsd:documentation>
                                    >>>> <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                    >>>> </xsd:documentation>
                                    >>>> </xsd:annotation>
                                    >>>> </xsd:element>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>type
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>are
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                    >>>>this point in future publications.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>type
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>import
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>need in
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                    >>>>
                                    >>><import>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                    >>>>acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                    >>>>document.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>Hope this helps.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>>>Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                    >>>>IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                    >>>>One Rogers Street
                                    >>>>Cambridge, MA 02142
                                    >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>"simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                    >>>>05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                    >>>>Please respond to soapbuilders
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                    >>>> cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                    >>>> Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                    >>>>question (was Suggestion?)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                    >>>>all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                    >>>>schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                    >>>>i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                    >>>>want to jump in first]
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                    >>>>import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                    >>>>option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                    >>>>require an import for wsdl.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>Cheers
                                    >>>>Simon
                                    >>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                    >>>>>it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                    >>>>>SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                    >>>>>need to be resolved to its schema?
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>Pete
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>Simon Fell wrote:
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>>Hi,
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>any
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>Cheers
                                    >>>>>>Simon
                                    >>>>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>><xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>present
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>>in the schema.
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>Pete
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>simonfell99 wrote:
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>current
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                    >>>>>>>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                    >>>>>>>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                    >>>>>>>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                    >>>>>>>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>should be
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>the
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>Cheers
                                    >>>>>>>>Simon
                                    >>>>>>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>
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                                  • Matt Long
                                    Pete, Here s my spin. The attributes references SOAP-ENC:arrayType which requires
                                    Message 17 of 22 , May 4, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Pete,

                                       

                                      Here’s my spin…

                                       

                                                  <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                       

                                      The attributes references “SOAP-ENC:arrayType” which requires access to the SOAP-ENC namespace, i.e., through <xsd:import…>.  The arbitrary “wsdl:arrayType” is not a reference to an attribute, simpleType, or complexType and only requires that the namespace of “wsdl” be declared, i.e., xmlns:wsdl=”…”. 

                                       

                                      I believe the above rules create valid schema;  _notice_ that this states nothing about the context of the “wsdl:arrayType” value.  The context of this attribute value only has meaning to the _WSDL Processor_ not the _Schema Processor_.

                                       

                                      Thx,

                                       

                                      -Matt Long

                                      Phalanx Systems, LLC

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:21 PM
                                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                                       

                                      I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                       


                                      <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                      and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?

                                      I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?

                                      Pete

                                         

                                      Simon Fell wrote:

                                      sounds good to me.

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon
                                      www.pocketsoap.com

                                      On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:
                                      For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                      below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported.  However,
                                      the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                      an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                      Fair summary?

                                      Thx,

                                      -Matt Long
                                      Phalanx Systems, LLC

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                      Suggestion?)

                                      A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                      reference
                                      to a schema component.  Thus, in the following fragment:

                                              <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                      ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                                      <xsd:annotation>
                                                              <xsd:documentation>
                                                                      <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                                              </xsd:documentation>
                                                      </xsd:annotation>
                                              </xsd:element>

                                      ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                      type
                                      ns1:t.  ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported.  In the example,

                                              <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                                      I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                      are
                                      pre-imported.  I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                      this point in future publications.

                                      By the way, you need only import things directly referenced.  If the
                                      type
                                      ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                      import
                                      ns5 in this schema document.  (There almost surely would be such a
                                      need in
                                      the schema document for the target namespace ns1.)    In general,
                                      <import>
                                      is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                      acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                      document.

                                      Hope this helps.

                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Noah Mendelsohn                              Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                      IBM Corporation                                Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                      One Rogers Street
                                      Cambridge, MA 02142
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                                      "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                      05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                      Please respond to soapbuilders


                                              To:     soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              cc:     (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              Subject:        [soapbuilders] Re: multip
                                      le schemas in WSDL
                                      question (was Suggestion?)

                                      I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                      all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                      schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                      i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                      want to jump in first]

                                      FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                      import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                      option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                      require an import for wsdl.

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon
                                      www.pocketsoap.com

                                      --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                      Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                      it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                      SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                      need to be resolved to its schema?

                                      Pete

                                      Simon Fell wrote:
                                      Hi,

                                      But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                      any
                                      of the schema defined element / attribute.

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon
                                      www.pocketsoap.com

                                      On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                      soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                                      <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                      wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                      Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                      present
                                      in the schema.

                                      Pete

                                      simonfell99 wrote:
                                      --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                      Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While
                                      current
                                      SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                      soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                      I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                      It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                      error with the current schemas being generated.
                                      Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                      SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                      should be
                                      imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                      the
                                      WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon
                                      www.pocketsoap.com



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                                    • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                                      Right conclusion, though I m not sure your reasoning is quite correct. soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a reference to a
                                      Message 18 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                        soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                        reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                        example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing to
                                        schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                        <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                        understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                        this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor conforming to
                                        only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                        wsdl:arrayType attribute.

                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                        IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                        One Rogers Street
                                        Cambridge, MA 02142
                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                        "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                        05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                        Please respond to soapbuilders


                                        To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                        cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                        Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)


                                        For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                        below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                        the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                        an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                        Fair summary?

                                        Thx,

                                        -Matt Long
                                        Phalanx Systems, LLC


                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                        > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                        > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                        > Suggestion?)
                                        >
                                        > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                        reference
                                        > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                        >
                                        > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                        > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                        > <xsd:annotation>
                                        > <xsd:documentation>
                                        > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                        > </xsd:documentation>
                                        > </xsd:annotation>
                                        > </xsd:element>
                                        >
                                        > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                        type
                                        > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                        >
                                        > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                        >
                                        > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                        are
                                        > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                        > this point in future publications.
                                        >
                                        > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                        type
                                        > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                        import
                                        > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                        need in
                                        > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                        <import>
                                        > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                        > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                        > document.
                                        >
                                        > Hope this helps.
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                        > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                        > One Rogers Street
                                        > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                        > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                        > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                        > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                        > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                        > question (was Suggestion?)
                                        >
                                        > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                        > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                        > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                        > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                        > want to jump in first]
                                        >
                                        > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                        > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                        > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                        > require an import for wsdl.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers
                                        > Simon
                                        > www.pocketsoap.com
                                        >
                                        > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                        > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                        > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                        > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                        > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                        > >
                                        > > Pete
                                        > >
                                        > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > >Hi,
                                        > > >
                                        > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                        > any
                                        > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >Cheers
                                        > > >Simon
                                        > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                        > > >
                                        > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                        > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                        > present
                                        > > >>in the schema.
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>Pete
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                        > current
                                        > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                        > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                        > > >>>>>
                                        > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                        > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                        > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                        > > >>>>
                                        > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                        > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                        > should be
                                        > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                        > the
                                        > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>Cheers
                                        > > >>>Simon
                                        > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                        > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                        > topic.
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                        > > >>>
                                        > > >>>
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                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                        > > >
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                                        > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                        > topic.
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                                      • Matt Long
                                        ... to ... Is it accurate to state:? The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not
                                        Message 19 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                          > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                          > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                          > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                          to
                                          > schema.

                                          Is it accurate to state:?

                                          The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                          schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                          imported.

                                          Thx,

                                          -Matt Long
                                          Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                          > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                          > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                          > Suggestion?)
                                          >
                                          > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                          > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                          > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                          > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                          to
                                          > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                          > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                          > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                          > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                          conforming to
                                          > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                          > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                          > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                          > One Rogers Street
                                          > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                          > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                          > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                          > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                          WSDL
                                          > question (was Suggestion?)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                          > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                          > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                          reference
                                          > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                          >
                                          > Fair summary?
                                          >
                                          > Thx,
                                          >
                                          > -Matt Long
                                          > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                          > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                          > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                          (was
                                          > > Suggestion?)
                                          > >
                                          > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                          > reference
                                          > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                          > >
                                          > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                          > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                          > > <xsd:annotation>
                                          > > <xsd:documentation>
                                          > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                          > > </xsd:documentation>
                                          > > </xsd:annotation>
                                          > > </xsd:element>
                                          > >
                                          > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                          > type
                                          > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                          > >
                                          > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                          > >
                                          > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                          > are
                                          > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                          clarify
                                          > > this point in future publications.
                                          > >
                                          > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                          > type
                                          > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                          > import
                                          > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                          > need in
                                          > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                          > <import>
                                          > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must
                                          be
                                          > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                          > > document.
                                          > >
                                          > > Hope this helps.
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                          > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                          > > One Rogers Street
                                          > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                          > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                          > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                          > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                          > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                          > >
                                          > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                          > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                          the
                                          > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                          > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                          > > want to jump in first]
                                          > >
                                          > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                          > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                          > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                          > > require an import for wsdl.
                                          > >
                                          > > Cheers
                                          > > Simon
                                          > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                          > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                          should
                                          > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                          > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                          > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Pete
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >Hi,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                          > > any
                                          > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >Cheers
                                          > > > >Simon
                                          > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                          > > > >>
                                          > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                          > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                          > > > >>
                                          > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                          > > present
                                          > > > >>in the schema.
                                          > > > >>
                                          > > > >>Pete
                                          > > > >>
                                          > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                          > > > >>
                                          > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                          > > current
                                          > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                          > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                          > > > >>>>>
                                          > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                          imported.
                                          > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                          > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                          > > > >>>>
                                          > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                          > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                          > > should be
                                          > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                          > > the
                                          > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>Cheers
                                          > > > >>>Simon
                                          > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > >
                                          >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                          > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                          > > topic.
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >>>
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                          > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                          > > topic.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                          discuss
                                          > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                          > >
                                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
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                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
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                                          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                          discuss
                                          > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                                          > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                                        • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                                          Yes, I think that s close enough. I think your e.g. should be an I.e. though...it s not an example. ... Noah Mendelsohn
                                          Message 20 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Yes, I think that's close enough. I think your "e.g." should be an "I.e."
                                            though...it's not an example.

                                            ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                            IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                            One Rogers Street
                                            Cambridge, MA 02142
                                            ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                            "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                            05/06/2002 10:01 AM
                                            Please respond to soapbuilders


                                            To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                            cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                            Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)


                                            > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                            > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                            > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                            > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                            to
                                            > schema.

                                            Is it accurate to state:?

                                            The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                            schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                            imported.

                                            Thx,

                                            -Matt Long
                                            Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                            > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                            > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                            > Suggestion?)
                                            >
                                            > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                            > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                            > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                            > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                            to
                                            > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                            > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                            > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                            > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                            conforming to
                                            > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                            > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                            > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                            > One Rogers Street
                                            > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                            > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                            > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                            > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                            WSDL
                                            > question (was Suggestion?)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                            > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                            > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                            reference
                                            > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                            >
                                            > Fair summary?
                                            >
                                            > Thx,
                                            >
                                            > -Matt Long
                                            > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                            > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                            > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                            (was
                                            > > Suggestion?)
                                            > >
                                            > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                            > reference
                                            > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                            > >
                                            > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                            > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                            > > <xsd:annotation>
                                            > > <xsd:documentation>
                                            > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                            > > </xsd:documentation>
                                            > > </xsd:annotation>
                                            > > </xsd:element>
                                            > >
                                            > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                            > type
                                            > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                            > >
                                            > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                            > >
                                            > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                            > are
                                            > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                            clarify
                                            > > this point in future publications.
                                            > >
                                            > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                            > type
                                            > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                            > import
                                            > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                            > need in
                                            > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                            > <import>
                                            > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must
                                            be
                                            > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                            > > document.
                                            > >
                                            > > Hope this helps.
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                            > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                            > > One Rogers Street
                                            > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                            > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                            > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                            > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                            > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                            > >
                                            > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                            > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                            the
                                            > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                            > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                            > > want to jump in first]
                                            > >
                                            > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                            > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                            > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                            > > require an import for wsdl.
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers
                                            > > Simon
                                            > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                            > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                            should
                                            > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                            > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                            > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Pete
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >Hi,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                            > > any
                                            > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Cheers
                                            > > > >Simon
                                            > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                            > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                            > > present
                                            > > > >>in the schema.
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>Pete
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                            > > current
                                            > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                            > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                            > > > >>>>>
                                            > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                            imported.
                                            > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                            > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                            > > > >>>>
                                            > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                            > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                            > > should be
                                            > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                            > > the
                                            > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>Cheers
                                            > > > >>>Simon
                                            > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > >
                                            >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                            > > topic.
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                            > > topic.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            discuss
                                            > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                            > >
                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
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                                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
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                                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                            discuss
                                            > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                                            >
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                                          • Matt Long
                                            Oops! I stand corrected (Beware the Ides of March!) i.e. = id est = that is e.g. = exempli gratia = for example Thx, -Matt Long Phalanx Systems, LLC ...
                                            Message 21 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Oops!
                                              I stand corrected (Beware the Ides of March!)

                                              i.e. = id est = "that is"

                                              e.g. = exempli gratia = "for example"

                                              Thx,

                                              -Matt Long
                                              Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                              > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:21 AM
                                              > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                              > Suggestion?)
                                              >
                                              > Yes, I think that's close enough. I think your "e.g." should be an
                                              "I.e."
                                              > though...it's not an example.
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              > One Rogers Street
                                              > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                              > 05/06/2002 10:01 AM
                                              > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                              WSDL
                                              > question (was Suggestion?)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite
                                              correct.
                                              > > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                              > > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                              > > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means
                                              nothing
                                              > to
                                              > > schema.
                                              >
                                              > Is it accurate to state:?
                                              >
                                              > The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                              > schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                              > imported.
                                              >
                                              > Thx,
                                              >
                                              > -Matt Long
                                              > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                              > > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                              > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                              (was
                                              > > Suggestion?)
                                              > >
                                              > > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite
                                              correct.
                                              > > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                              > > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                              > > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means
                                              nothing
                                              > to
                                              > > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                              > > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                              > > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants
                                              with
                                              > > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                              > conforming to
                                              > > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                              > > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              > > One Rogers Street
                                              > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                              > > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                              > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              > > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                              > WSDL
                                              > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g.,
                                              from
                                              > > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported.
                                              However,
                                              > > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                              > reference
                                              > > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                              > >
                                              > > Fair summary?
                                              > >
                                              > > Thx,
                                              > >
                                              > > -Matt Long
                                              > > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > > From: noah_mendelsohn@...
                                              [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                              > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                              > > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                              > (was
                                              > > > Suggestion?)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                              > > reference
                                              > > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                              > > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                              > > > <xsd:annotation>
                                              > > > <xsd:documentation>
                                              > > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                              > > > </xsd:documentation>
                                              > > > </xsd:annotation>
                                              > > > </xsd:element>
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a
                                              schema
                                              > > type
                                              > > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in
                                              types
                                              > > are
                                              > > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                              > clarify
                                              > > > this point in future publications.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If
                                              the
                                              > > type
                                              > > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                              > > import
                                              > > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                              > > need in
                                              > > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                              > > <import>
                                              > > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components
                                              must
                                              > be
                                              > > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                              > > > document.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hope this helps.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              > > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              > > > One Rogers Street
                                              > > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                              > > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                              > > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              > > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                              WSDL
                                              > > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                              > > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                              > the
                                              > > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending
                                              schema,
                                              > > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema
                                              guys
                                              > > > want to jump in first]
                                              > > >
                                              > > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the
                                              soap-enc
                                              > > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                              > > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                              > > > require an import for wsdl.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Cheers
                                              > > > Simon
                                              > > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                              > > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                              > should
                                              > > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                              > > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does
                                              not
                                              > > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Pete
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >Hi,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value
                                              in
                                              > > > any
                                              > > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >Cheers
                                              > > > > >Simon
                                              > > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                              > > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array
                                              was
                                              > > > present
                                              > > > > >>in the schema.
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >>Pete
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > > > >>>
                                              > > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                              > > > current
                                              > > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see
                                              why
                                              > > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                              > > > > >>>>>
                                              > > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                              > imported.
                                              > > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                              > > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                              > > > > >>>>
                                              > > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                              > > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                              > > > should be
                                              > > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                              > > > > >>>
                                              > > > > >>>Cheers
                                              > > > > >>>Simon
                                              > > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > > > > >>>
                                              > > > > >>>
                                              > > > > >>>
                                              > > > >
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