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multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

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  • Pete Hendry
    Sam, Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file - there are no import
    Message 1 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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      Sam,

      Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file

       - there are no 'import' statements in any of the schemas. This means they
         cannot reference items in each other. There are no special rules about
         a schema contained in WSDL in relation to this, or are there? The schema
         spec is clear about the requirement to use import for this (although the soap-enc
         namespace seems to be an exception)

       - does Axis generate the same supporting schemas into each WSDL file? If so
         then a soap node could use any of these to satisfy the need to find a schema
         with the required namespace (without a schemaLocation on an import that is).
         So if I have A.wsdl and B.wsdl and they both contain a complete definition
         of targetNamespace "X/xsd" then while processing A.wsdl there is nothing to
         stop the soap node from using the schema in B.wsdl (which it may already have
         parsed and have available) to satisfy the references? This is obviously not
         what would be intended when the schema is included in the same wsdl file.
       
       - should these fixed schemas not be made available in one location and pointed
          to from each WSDL rather than reproduced in each WSDL file. This would
          get around the 2 problems above.


      If the above observations are correct then it seems to me Axis is expecting other schema processors to act in a way compatible with the WSDL it generates, but which does not necessarily follow the schema spec. Not great for interop. It doesn't feel right to put special logic in our parser for this.

      Or am I missing something related to schema use in a WSDL file?

      Pete

      Sam Ruby wrote:
      Rich Saltz wrote:
      I don't have any problem with the Apache map stuff; ZSI has supported it
      for a while, e.g.

      What is the .NET problem with it? If I create a WSDL file and define
      something analogous will the tool blow up? Or is it just that it's not
      supported as a native datatype?

      You can find an Apache Axis generated WSDL at
      http://nagoya.apache.org:5049/axis/services/echo?wsdl

      It contains a schema definition for a Map. When you attempt to generate a
      proxy from this using the .NET WSDL utility, you get the following:

      Error: Unable to import binding 'echoSoapBinding' from namespace
      'http://nagoya.apache.org/axis/services/echo'.
      - Unable to import operation 'echoMap'.
      - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

      Note: it is not my intent to rathole on this one issue, but I do think that
      attempting to capture and discuss actual experiences would be a worthwhile
      exercise.

      - Sam Ruby


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    • Matt Long
      Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should_ be imported. While current SoapBuilder WSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don t see why soap-enc namespace should be
      Message 2 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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        Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should_ be imported.  While current SoapBuilder WSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don’t see why soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

         

        Multiple schemas should not be an issue, if the ref each other then they should be imported…but if they contain the ‘same’ targetNamespace should they be imported?!?  From a ‘best practice’ standpoint I don’t care for this scenario.

         

        Opinions?!?

         

        Thx,

         

        -Matt Long

         

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
        Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:12 AM
        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [soapbuilders] multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

         

        Sam,

        Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file

         - there are no 'import' statements in any of the schemas. This means they
           cannot reference items in each other. There are no special rules about
           a schema contained in WSDL in relation to this, or are there? The schema
           spec is clear about the requirement to use import for this (although the soap-enc
           namespace seems to be an exception)

         - does Axis generate the same supporting schemas into each WSDL file? If so
           then a soap node could use any of these to satisfy the need to find a schema
           with the required namespace (without a schemaLocation on an import that is).
           So if I have A.wsdl and B.wsdl and they both contain a complete definition
           of targetNamespace "X/xsd" then while processing A.wsdl there is nothing to
           stop the soap node from using the schema in B.wsdl (which it may already have
           parsed and have available) to satisfy the references? This is obviously not
           what would be intended when the schema is included in the same wsdl file.
         
         - should these fixed schemas not be made available in one location and pointed
            to from each WSDL rather than reproduced in each WSDL file. This would
            get around the 2 problems above.


        If the above observations are correct then it seems to me Axis is expecting other schema processors to act in a way compatible with the WSDL it generates, but which does not necessarily follow the schema spec. Not great for interop. It doesn't feel right to put special logic in our parser for this.

        Or am I missing something related to schema use in a WSDL file?

        Pete

        Sam Ruby wrote:

        Rich Saltz wrote:
        I don't have any problem with the Apache map stuff; ZSI has supported it
        for a while, e.g.

        What is the .NET problem with it?  If I create a WSDL file and define
        something analogous will the tool blow up?  Or is it just that it's not
        supported as a native datatype?

        You can find an Apache Axis generated WSDL at
        http://nagoya.apache.org:5049/axis/services/echo?wsdl

        It contains a schema definition for a Map.  When you attempt to generate a
        proxy from this using the .NET WSDL utility, you get the following:

        Error: Unable to import binding 'echoSoapBinding' from namespace
        'http://nagoya.apache.org/axis/services/echo'.
          - Unable to import operation 'echoMap'.
          - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

        Note: it is not my intent to rathole on this one issue, but I do think that
        attempting to capture and discuss actual experiences would be a worthwhile
        exercise.

        - Sam Ruby


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      • Pete Hendry
        ... I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should error with the current schemas
        Message 3 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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          Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don’t see why soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

          I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should error with the current schemas being generated.

           

          Multiple schemas should not be an issue, if the ref each other then they should be imported…but if they contain the ‘same’ targetNamespace should they be imported?!?  From a ‘best practice’ standpoint I don’t care for this scenario.

          If they use the same targetNamespace then they should be 'include'd. To me a schema is a unit of definition. If I have a file A.xsd and another B.xsd and they have the same targetNamespace "urn:x" then they should either be the same (so it doesn't matter which is loaded) or one should include the other. Redefine is an interesting case as it requires application separation for the loaded schemas.

          We wanted to have a schema manager to load and generally manage schemas without any knowledge of the classes using it (an independent module). However, if an application A refers to schema "A.xsd" and another application B refers to schema "B.xsd" that includes A.xsd and redefines some elements (using redefine), then both applications are working with the same targetNamespace, but the applications see different schema contents. The schemaLocation was therefore included as a distinguishing factor when looking up a schema (which has the drawback that multiple schemas may import the same schema from different physical locations and will get different instances but with the same content - schemaLocation is only a hint but because of redefine it becomes significant). Or should the redefined schema apply globally (the spec is not clear on this but since schemaLocation is a 'hint' then the parser could load the schema with redefine in it for both applications - redefine seems a little dangerous to me in this respect).

          Opinions?!?

           

          I think this should be fixed for interop since we should at least conform to the schema spec in testing.

          Pete

          Thx,

           

          -Matt Long

           

           

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
          Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:12 AM
          To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [soapbuilders] multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

           

          Sam,

          Looking at the WSDL obtained from the URL below I have some questions about the Axis use of multiple schemas in a WSDL file

           - there are no 'import' statements in any of the schemas. This means they
             cannot reference items in each other. There are no special rules about
             a schema contained in WSDL in relation to this, or are there? The schema
             spec is clear about the requirement to use import for this (although the soap-enc
             namespace seems to be an exception)

           - does Axis generate the same supporting schemas into each WSDL file? If so
             then a soap node could use any of these to satisfy the need to find a schema
             with the required namespace (without a schemaLocation on an import that is).
             So if I have A.wsdl and B.wsdl and they both contain a complete definition
             of targetNamespace "X/xsd" then while processing A.wsdl there is nothing to
             stop the soap node from using the schema in B.wsdl (which it may already have
             parsed and have available) to satisfy the references? This is obviously not
             what would be intended when the schema is included in the same wsdl file.
           
           - should these fixed schemas not be made available in one location and pointed
              to from each WSDL rather than reproduced in each WSDL file. This would
              get around the 2 problems above.


          If the above observations are correct then it seems to me Axis is expecting other schema processors to act in a way compatible with the WSDL it generates, but which does not necessarily follow the schema spec. Not great for interop. It doesn't feel right to put special logic in our parser for this.

          Or am I missing something related to schema use in a WSDL file?

          Pete

          Sam Ruby wrote:

          Rich Saltz wrote:
          I don't have any problem with the Apache map stuff; ZSI has supported it

          for a while, e.g.



          What is the .NET problem with it?  If I create a WSDL file and define

          something analogous will the tool blow up?  Or is it just that it's not

          supported as a native datatype?


          You can find an Apache Axis generated WSDL at

          http://nagoya.apache.org:5049/axis/services/echo?wsdl



          It contains a schema definition for a Map.  When you attempt to generate a

          proxy from this using the .NET WSDL utility, you get the following:



          Error: Unable to import binding 'echoSoapBinding' from namespace

          'http://nagoya.apache.org/axis/services/echo'.

            - Unable to import operation 'echoMap'.

            - Object reference not set to an instance of an object.



          Note: it is not my intent to rathole on this one issue, but I do think that

          attempting to captu re and discuss actual experiences would be a worthwhile

          exercise.



          - Sam Ruby





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        • simonfell99
          ... Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last SOAPBuilders F2F. I m less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be imported, I don t recall any
          Message 4 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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            --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
            > > SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
            > > soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
            > I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
            > It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
            > error with the current schemas being generated.

            Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
            SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
            imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
            WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

            Cheers
            Simon
            www.pocketsoap.com
          • Pete Hendry
            soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType Obviously the wsdl schema
            Message 5 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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              soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

              Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present in the schema.

              Pete

              simonfell99 wrote:
              --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

              Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
              SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
              soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
              I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. 
              It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
              error with the current schemas being generated.

              Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
              SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
              imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
              WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

              Cheers
              Simon
              www.pocketsoap.com


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            • Simon Fell
              Hi, But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any of the schema defined element / attribute. Cheers Simon www.pocketsoap.com
              Message 6 of 22 , May 2, 2002
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                Hi,

                But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                of the schema defined element / attribute.

                Cheers
                Simon
                www.pocketsoap.com

                On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                >soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                >
                > <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                >
                >Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present
                >in the schema.
                >
                >Pete
                >
                >simonfell99 wrote:
                >
                >>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                >>
                >>>>
                >>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
                >>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                >>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                >>>>
                >>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                >>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                >>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                >>>
                >>
                >>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                >>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                >>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                >>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                >>
                >>Cheers
                >>Simon
                >>www.pocketsoap.com
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                >>
                >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
              • Matt Long
                Yup, U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate. Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM
                Message 7 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                  Yup,

                  U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                  or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate.

                  Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                  declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                  with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                  Thx,

                  -Matt Long
                  Phalanx Systems, LLC





                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                  > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                  > Suggestion?)
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                  > of the schema defined element / attribute.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Simon
                  > www.pocketsoap.com
                  >
                  > On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                  >
                  > >soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                  > >
                  > > <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                  > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                  > >
                  > >Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                  present
                  > >in the schema.
                  > >
                  > >Pete
                  > >
                  > >simonfell99 wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While current
                  > >>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                  > >>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                  > >>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                  > >>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                  > >>>
                  > >>
                  > >>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                  > >>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                  > >>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                  > >>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                  > >>
                  > >>Cheers
                  > >>Simon
                  > >>www.pocketsoap.com
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                  discuss
                  > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                  > >>
                  > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > >>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                • Pete Hendry
                  Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in SOAP-ENC:arrayType as lax mean
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 3, 2002
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                    Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not need to be resolved to its schema?

                    Pete

                    Simon Fell wrote:
                    Hi,

                    But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                    of the schema defined element / attribute.

                    Cheers
                    Simon
                    www.pocketsoap.com

                    On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                    soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                    <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                    Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was present
                    in the schema.

                    Pete

                    simonfell99 wrote:

                    --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                    Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current 
                    SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                    soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                    I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported. 
                    It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                    error with the current schemas being generated.

                    Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last 
                    SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                    imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                    WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                    Cheers
                    Simon
                    www.pocketsoap.com



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                  • Pete Hendry
                    ... This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents= lax then would
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                      or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate.
                      This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents="lax" then would the value of the wsdl:arrayType not have to be validated to make sure it is valid with respect to the schema in which it is defined (e.g. to check it is an int or whatever)? This would require loading the wsdl schema and so would require an import. It gets a bit hairy when you have to go off and find if the definition of an attribute matches an anyAttribute in another schema with processContents="lax". I'd generally rather import the schema for peace of mind. Of course, a conforming parser would work this all out and the schema would not need to be imported (which is what the question was in the first place).

                      Rereading that and I'm confusing myself :-)

                      Pete

                      Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                      declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                      with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                      Thx,

                      -Matt Long
                      Phalanx Systems, LLC





                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                      To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                      Suggestion?)

                      Hi,

                      But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                      of the schema defined element / attribute.

                      Cheers
                      Simon
                      www.pocketsoap.com

                      On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                      soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                      <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                      wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                      Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                      present
                      in the schema.

                      Pete

                      simonfell99 wrote:

                      --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                      Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current
                      SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                      soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                      I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                      It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                      error with the current schemas being generated.

                      Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                      SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                      imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                      WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                      Cheers
                      Simon
                      www.pocketsoap.com



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                    • Matt Long
                      Pete, How do you validate something that does not exist, i.e., wsdl:arrayType= xsd:string[,] ? Or is this the right question to even ask, Gudge Help!
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Pete,

                         

                        How do you validate something that does not exist, i.e., wsdl:arrayType=”xsd:string[,]”    ?

                         

                        Or is this the right question to even ask,   Gudge Help!

                         

                        Thx,

                         

                        -Matt Long

                        Phalanx Systems, LLC

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
                        Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:11 AM
                        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                         

                        U R right! (I think) Since the wsdl namespace does not define an element
                        or attribute in schema, i.e., nothing to validate. 

                        This is not the general case though is it? If the SOAP-ENC:arrayType attribute were not defined having anyAttribute with processContents="lax" then would the value of the wsdl:arrayType not have to be validated to make sure it is valid with respect to the schema in which it is defined (e.g. to check it is an int or whatever)? This would require loading the wsdl schema and so would require an import. It gets a bit hairy when you have to go off and find if the definition of an attribute matches an anyAttribute in another schema with processContents="lax". I'd generally rather import the schema for peace of mind. Of course, a conforming parser would work this all out and the schema would not need to be imported (which is what the question was in the first place).

                        Rereading that and I'm confusing myself :-)

                        Pete


                        Sidebar--I do know that MS-SOM can handle it if the wsdl namespace is
                        declared (not imported), but soap-enc namespace must be imported (along
                        with schemaLocation) to create a workable and/or validate-able SOM.

                        Thx,

                        -Matt Long
                        Phalanx Systems, LLC




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Simon Fell [mailto:soap@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                        Suggestion?)

                        Hi,

                        But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in any
                        of the schema defined element / attribute.

                        Cheers
                        Simon
                        www.pocketsoap.com

                        On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                        soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                         <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                        wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                        Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                        present
                        in the schema.

                        Pete

                        simonfell99 wrote:
                        --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                        Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While current
                        SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                        soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                        I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                        It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                        error with the current schemas being generated.
                        Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                        SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace should be
                        imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference the
                        WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                        Cheers
                        Simon
                        www.pocketsoap.com



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                      • simonfell99
                        I don t think there s a requirement for schema documents to import all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the schema spec and didn t
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                          all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                          schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                          i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                          want to jump in first]

                          FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                          import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                          option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                          require an import for wsdl.

                          Cheers
                          Simon
                          www.pocketsoap.com

                          --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                          > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                          > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                          > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                          > need to be resolved to its schema?
                          >
                          > Pete
                          >
                          > Simon Fell wrote:
                          >
                          > >Hi,
                          > >
                          > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                          any
                          > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                          > >
                          > >Cheers
                          > >Simon
                          > >www.pocketsoap.com
                          > >
                          > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                          > >
                          > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                          > >>
                          > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                          wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                          > >>
                          > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                          present
                          > >>in the schema.
                          > >>
                          > >>Pete
                          > >>
                          > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                          > >>>
                          > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                          current
                          > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                          > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                          > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                          > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                          > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                          should be
                          > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                          the
                          > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Cheers
                          > >>>Simon
                          > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                          discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                          topic.
                          > >>>
                          > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                          discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                          topic.
                          > >
                          > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                          > >
                          > >
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                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                          > >
                        • Simon Horrell
                          [inline] Si. ... From: simonfell99 To: Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:52 PM Subject: [soapbuilders] Re:
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            [inline]
                            Si.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                            To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:52 PM
                            Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                            Suggestion?)


                            > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                            > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                            > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                            > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                            > want to jump in first]

                            [Si H] I'm *not* one of the schema guys but that is certainly my take. When
                            defining an XML schema, it is possible to reference constructs
                            (complex/simple types, global element/attributes decls, group, attribute
                            groups) from namespaces other than the schema's targetNamespace (let's call
                            them an external namespace). As long as the software that processes the
                            schema document (i.e. a schema processor) is told about (or already knows
                            about) the relationships between the referenced external namespaces and the
                            location of the schemas that describes them before it processes the schema
                            document then everything should be fine. Strikes me that xsd:import is but
                            one way you could specify this relationship. Bear in mind that the location
                            attribute of xsd:import is optional anyway.

                            >
                            > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                            > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                            > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                            > require an import for wsdl.
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            > Simon
                            > www.pocketsoap.com
                            >
                            > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                            > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                            > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                            > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                            > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                            > >
                            > > Pete
                            > >
                            > > Simon Fell wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >Hi,
                            > > >
                            > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                            > any
                            > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                            > > >
                            > > >Cheers
                            > > >Simon
                            > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                            > > >
                            > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                            > > >>
                            > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                            > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                            > > >>
                            > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                            > present
                            > > >>in the schema.
                            > > >>
                            > > >>Pete
                            > > >>
                            > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                            > > >>
                            > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                            > current
                            > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                            > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                            > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                            > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                            > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                            > should be
                            > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                            > the
                            > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>Cheers
                            > > >>>Simon
                            > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                            > topic.
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                            > topic.
                            > > >
                            > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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                            implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                          • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                            A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a reference to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a reference
                              to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:

                              <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                              ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                              <xsd:annotation>
                              <xsd:documentation>
                              <html:body> ...</html:body>
                              </xsd:documentation>
                              </xsd:annotation>
                              </xsd:element>

                              ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema type
                              ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,

                              <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                              I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types are
                              pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                              this point in future publications.

                              By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the type
                              ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to import
                              ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a need in
                              the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general, <import>
                              is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                              acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                              document.

                              Hope this helps.

                              ------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                              IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                              One Rogers Street
                              Cambridge, MA 02142
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------







                              "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                              05/03/02 12:52 PM
                              Please respond to soapbuilders


                              To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                              Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                              I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                              all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                              schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                              i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                              want to jump in first]

                              FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                              import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                              option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                              require an import for wsdl.

                              Cheers
                              Simon
                              www.pocketsoap.com

                              --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                              > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                              > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                              > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                              > need to be resolved to its schema?
                              >
                              > Pete
                              >
                              > Simon Fell wrote:
                              >
                              > >Hi,
                              > >
                              > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                              any
                              > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                              > >
                              > >Cheers
                              > >Simon
                              > >www.pocketsoap.com
                              > >
                              > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                              > >
                              > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                              > >>
                              > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                              wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                              > >>
                              > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                              present
                              > >>in the schema.
                              > >>
                              > >>Pete
                              > >>
                              > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                              current
                              > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                              > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                              > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                              > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                              > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                              should be
                              > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                              the
                              > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                              > >>>
                              > >>>Cheers
                              > >>>Simon
                              > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                              topic.
                              > >>>
                              > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                              topic.
                              > >
                              > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >



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                            • Matt Long
                              For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However, the wsdl namespace
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                Fair summary?

                                Thx,

                                -Matt Long
                                Phalanx Systems, LLC


                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                > Suggestion?)
                                >
                                > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                reference
                                > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                >
                                > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                > <xsd:annotation>
                                > <xsd:documentation>
                                > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                > </xsd:documentation>
                                > </xsd:annotation>
                                > </xsd:element>
                                >
                                > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                type
                                > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                >
                                > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                >
                                > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                are
                                > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                > this point in future publications.
                                >
                                > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                type
                                > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                import
                                > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                need in
                                > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                <import>
                                > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                > document.
                                >
                                > Hope this helps.
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                > One Rogers Street
                                > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                >
                                >
                                > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                > question (was Suggestion?)
                                >
                                > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                > want to jump in first]
                                >
                                > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                > require an import for wsdl.
                                >
                                > Cheers
                                > Simon
                                > www.pocketsoap.com
                                >
                                > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                > >
                                > > Pete
                                > >
                                > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >Hi,
                                > > >
                                > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                > any
                                > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                > > >
                                > > >Cheers
                                > > >Simon
                                > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                > > >
                                > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                > > >>
                                > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                > > >>
                                > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                > present
                                > > >>in the schema.
                                > > >>
                                > > >>Pete
                                > > >>
                                > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                > > >>
                                > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                > > >>>
                                > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                > current
                                > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                > > >>>>>
                                > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                > > >>>>
                                > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                > should be
                                > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                > the
                                > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                > > >>>
                                > > >>>Cheers
                                > > >>>Simon
                                > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                > > >>>
                                > > >>>
                                > > >>>
                                > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                > topic.
                                > > >>>
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                                > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
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                              • Simon Fell
                                sounds good to me. Cheers Simon www.pocketsoap.com
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  sounds good to me.

                                  Cheers
                                  Simon
                                  www.pocketsoap.com

                                  On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:

                                  >For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                  >below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                  >the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                  >an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                  >
                                  >Fair summary?
                                  >
                                  >Thx,
                                  >
                                  >-Matt Long
                                  >Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> -----Original Message-----
                                  >> From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                  >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                  >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                  >> Suggestion?)
                                  >>
                                  >> A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                  >reference
                                  >> to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                  >>
                                  >> <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                  >> ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                  >> <xsd:annotation>
                                  >> <xsd:documentation>
                                  >> <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                  >> </xsd:documentation>
                                  >> </xsd:annotation>
                                  >> </xsd:element>
                                  >>
                                  >> ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                  >type
                                  >> ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                  >>
                                  >> <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                  >>
                                  >> I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                  >are
                                  >> pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                  >> this point in future publications.
                                  >>
                                  >> By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                  >type
                                  >> ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                  >import
                                  >> ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                  >need in
                                  >> the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                  ><import>
                                  >> is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                  >> acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                  >> document.
                                  >>
                                  >> Hope this helps.
                                  >>
                                  >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >> Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                  >> IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                  >> One Rogers Street
                                  >> Cambridge, MA 02142
                                  >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                  >> 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                  >> Please respond to soapbuilders
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                  >> Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                  >> question (was Suggestion?)
                                  >>
                                  >> I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                  >> all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                  >> schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                  >> i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                  >> want to jump in first]
                                  >>
                                  >> FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                  >> import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                  >> option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                  >> require an import for wsdl.
                                  >>
                                  >> Cheers
                                  >> Simon
                                  >> www.pocketsoap.com
                                  >>
                                  >> --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                  >> > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                  >> > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                  >> > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                  >> > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Pete
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Simon Fell wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> > >Hi,
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                  >> any
                                  >> > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >Cheers
                                  >> > >Simon
                                  >> > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                  >> > >>
                                  >> > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                  >> wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                  >> > >>
                                  >> > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                  >> present
                                  >> > >>in the schema.
                                  >> > >>
                                  >> > >>Pete
                                  >> > >>
                                  >> > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                  >> > >>
                                  >> > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                  >> current
                                  >> > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                  >> > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                  >> > >>>>>
                                  >> > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                  >> > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                  >> > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                  >> > >>>>
                                  >> > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                  >> > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                  >> should be
                                  >> > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                  >> the
                                  >> > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>Cheers
                                  >> > >>>Simon
                                  >> > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >> > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                  >> discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                  >> topic.
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  >> > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >>>
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >> > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                  >> discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                  >> topic.
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  >> > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
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                                  >> implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                  >>
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                                • Pete Hendry
                                  I m not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                  Message 16 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                     

                                    <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                    and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?

                                    I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?

                                    Pete
                                       

                                    Simon Fell wrote:
                                    sounds good to me.

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon
                                    www.pocketsoap.com

                                    On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:

                                    For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                    below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                    the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                    an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                    Fair summary?

                                    Thx,

                                    -Matt Long
                                    Phalanx Systems, LLC


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                    To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                    Suggestion?)

                                    A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                    reference
                                    to a schema component.  Thus, in the following fragment:

                                    <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                    ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                    <xsd:annotation>
                                    <xsd:documentation>
                                    <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                    </xsd:documentation>
                                    </xsd:annotation>
                                    </xsd:element>

                                    ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                    type
                                    ns1:t.  ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported.  In the example,

                                    <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                                    I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                    are
                                    pre-imported.  I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                    this point in future publications.

                                    By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                    type
                                    ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                    import
                                    ns5 in this schema document.  (There almost surely would be such a
                                    need in
                                    the schema document for the target namespace ns1.)    In general,
                                    <import>
                                    is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                    acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                    document.

                                    Hope this helps.

                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                    IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                    One Rogers Street
                                    Cambridge, MA 02142
                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                    "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                    05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                    Please respond to soapbuilders


                                    To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                    cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                    Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multip le schemas in WSDL
                                    question (was Suggestion?)

                                    I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                    all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                    schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                    i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                    want to jump in first]

                                    FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                    import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                    option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                    require an import for wsdl.

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon
                                    www.pocketsoap.com

                                    --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                    Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                    it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                    SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                    need to be resolved to its schema?

                                    Pete

                                    Simon Fell wrote:

                                    Hi,

                                    But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                    any
                                    of the schema defined element / attribute.

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon
                                    www.pocketsoap.com

                                    On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                                    soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                                    <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                    wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                    Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                    present
                                    in the schema.

                                    Pete

                                    simonfell99 wrote:

                                    --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:

                                    Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While
                                    current
                                    SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                    soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.

                                    I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                    It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                    error with the current schemas being generated.

                                    Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                    SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                    should be
                                    imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                    the
                                    WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                                    Cheers
                                    Simon
                                    www.pocketsoap.com



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                                  • Simon Fell
                                    right, _Your_ processing might require the schema for the wsdl namespace, but that doesn t mean that XSD mandates an element. How is this
                                    Message 17 of 22 , May 3, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      right, _Your_ processing might require the schema for the wsdl
                                      namespace, but that doesn't mean that XSD mandates an <xsd:import>
                                      element.

                                      How is this different to a validating soap server ?, i have one that
                                      takes messages like
                                      <Envelope xmlns="...">
                                      <Body>
                                      <foo xmlns="urn:example.org">
                                      </foo>
                                      </Body>
                                      </Envelope>

                                      My processing requires access to a schema for urn:example.org to
                                      validate the message, but that doesn't change the format of the
                                      message.

                                      If you want to handle wsdl:arrayType, then you need to know the
                                      metadata that its a string (of a particular format), but that metadata
                                      doesn't have to be fetched from a schema. [in my WSDL impl, its hard
                                      coded, its not like it can change]. Of course, if you're building
                                      something that handles arbitrary schema extensions, then the schema
                                      would be nice, but shouldn't require <xsd:imports> in the schema
                                      document.

                                      Cheers
                                      Simon
                                      www.pocketsoap.com

                                      On Sat, 04 May 2002 13:21:14 +1200, in soap you wrote:

                                      >I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl.
                                      >If I have
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ><xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                      >
                                      >and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?
                                      >
                                      >I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?
                                      >
                                      >Pete
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Simon Fell wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>sounds good to me.
                                      >>
                                      >>Cheers
                                      >>Simon
                                      >>www.pocketsoap.com
                                      >>
                                      >>On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>>For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                      >>>below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                      >>>the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                      >>>an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Fair summary?
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Thx,
                                      >>>
                                      >>>-Matt Long
                                      >>>Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                      >>>>From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                      >>>>Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                      >>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      >>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                      >>>>Suggestion?)
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>reference
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                      >>>>ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                      >>>> <xsd:annotation>
                                      >>>> <xsd:documentation>
                                      >>>> <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                      >>>> </xsd:documentation>
                                      >>>> </xsd:annotation>
                                      >>>> </xsd:element>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>type
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>are
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                      >>>>this point in future publications.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>type
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>import
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>need in
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                      >>>>
                                      >>><import>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                      >>>>acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                      >>>>document.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>Hope this helps.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>>Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                      >>>>IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                      >>>>One Rogers Street
                                      >>>>Cambridge, MA 02142
                                      >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>"simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                      >>>>05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                      >>>>Please respond to soapbuilders
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                      >>>> cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                      >>>> Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                      >>>>question (was Suggestion?)
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                      >>>>all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                      >>>>schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                      >>>>i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                      >>>>want to jump in first]
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                      >>>>import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                      >>>>option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                      >>>>require an import for wsdl.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>Cheers
                                      >>>>Simon
                                      >>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                      >>>>>it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                      >>>>>SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                      >>>>>need to be resolved to its schema?
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>Pete
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>Simon Fell wrote:
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>>Hi,
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>any
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>Cheers
                                      >>>>>>Simon
                                      >>>>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>><xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>present
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>>in the schema.
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>Pete
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>simonfell99 wrote:
                                      >>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                      >>>>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>current
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                      >>>>>>>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                      >>>>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                      >>>>>>>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                      >>>>>>>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                      >>>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                      >>>>>>>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>should be
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>the
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>Cheers
                                      >>>>>>>>Simon
                                      >>>>>>>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>>>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                      >>>>topic.
                                      >>>>
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                                      >>>>>>>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                      >>>>>>>>
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                                      >>>>>>>>
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                                      >>>>>>>>
                                      >>>>>>
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                                    • Matt Long
                                      Pete, Here s my spin. The attributes references SOAP-ENC:arrayType which requires
                                      Message 18 of 22 , May 4, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        Pete,

                                         

                                        Here’s my spin…

                                         

                                                    <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                         

                                        The attributes references “SOAP-ENC:arrayType” which requires access to the SOAP-ENC namespace, i.e., through <xsd:import…>.  The arbitrary “wsdl:arrayType” is not a reference to an attribute, simpleType, or complexType and only requires that the namespace of “wsdl” be declared, i.e., xmlns:wsdl=”…”. 

                                         

                                        I believe the above rules create valid schema;  _notice_ that this states nothing about the context of the “wsdl:arrayType” value.  The context of this attribute value only has meaning to the _WSDL Processor_ not the _Schema Processor_.

                                         

                                        Thx,

                                         

                                        -Matt Long

                                        Phalanx Systems, LLC

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Pete Hendry [mailto:peter.hendry@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:21 PM
                                        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)

                                         

                                        I'm not disagreeing, just making sure I understand for the case of wsdl. If I have
                                         


                                        <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType" wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>

                                        and I am parsing this schema, then why do I not need to get the wsdl schema and check the type of the wsdl:arrayType attribute (which happens to be "string" but could have been anything else). To make sure this schema is valid I have to check the type of this attribute which requires getting the wsdl schema?

                                        I see what is being said about requiring it if it is referenced from a value, but why not in the case above?

                                        Pete

                                           

                                        Simon Fell wrote:

                                        sounds good to me.

                                        Cheers
                                        Simon
                                        www.pocketsoap.com

                                        On Fri, 3 May 2002 14:38:33 -0500, in soap you wrote:
                                        For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                        below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported.  However,
                                        the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                        an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                        Fair summary?

                                        Thx,

                                        -Matt Long
                                        Phalanx Systems, LLC

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                        Suggestion?)

                                        A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                        reference
                                        to a schema component.  Thus, in the following fragment:

                                                <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                        ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                                        <xsd:annotation>
                                                                <xsd:documentation>
                                                                        <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                                                </xsd:documentation>
                                                        </xsd:annotation>
                                                </xsd:element>

                                        ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                        type
                                        ns1:t.  ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported.  In the example,

                                                <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>

                                        I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                        are
                                        pre-imported.  I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                        this point in future publications.

                                        By the way, you need only import things directly referenced.  If the
                                        type
                                        ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                        import
                                        ns5 in this schema document.  (There almost surely would be such a
                                        need in
                                        the schema document for the target namespace ns1.)    In general,
                                        <import>
                                        is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                        acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                        document.

                                        Hope this helps.

                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Noah Mendelsohn                              Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                        IBM Corporation                                Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                        One Rogers Street
                                        Cambridge, MA 02142
                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                        "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                        05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                        Please respond to soapbuilders


                                                To:     soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                                cc:     (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                                Subject:        [soapbuilders] Re: multip
                                        le schemas in WSDL
                                        question (was Suggestion?)

                                        I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                        all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                        schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                        i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                        want to jump in first]

                                        FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                        import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                        option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                        require an import for wsdl.

                                        Cheers
                                        Simon
                                        www.pocketsoap.com

                                        --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                        Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                        it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                        SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                        need to be resolved to its schema?

                                        Pete

                                        Simon Fell wrote:
                                        Hi,

                                        But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                        any
                                        of the schema defined element / attribute.

                                        Cheers
                                        Simon
                                        www.pocketsoap.com

                                        On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                        soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType

                                        <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                        wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                        Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                        present
                                        in the schema.

                                        Pete

                                        simonfell99 wrote:
                                        --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                        Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported.  While
                                        current
                                        SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                        soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                        I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                        It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                        error with the current schemas being generated.
                                        Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                        SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                        should be
                                        imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                        the
                                        WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?

                                        Cheers
                                        Simon
                                        www.pocketsoap.com



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                                      • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                                        Right conclusion, though I m not sure your reasoning is quite correct. soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a reference to a
                                        Message 19 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                          soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                          reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                          example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing to
                                          schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                          <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                          understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                          this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor conforming to
                                          only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                          wsdl:arrayType attribute.

                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                          IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                          One Rogers Street
                                          Cambridge, MA 02142
                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                          "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                          05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                          Please respond to soapbuilders


                                          To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                          cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                          Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)


                                          For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                          below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                          the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not reference
                                          an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.

                                          Fair summary?

                                          Thx,

                                          -Matt Long
                                          Phalanx Systems, LLC


                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                          > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                          > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                          > Suggestion?)
                                          >
                                          > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                          reference
                                          > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                          >
                                          > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                          > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                          > <xsd:annotation>
                                          > <xsd:documentation>
                                          > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                          > </xsd:documentation>
                                          > </xsd:annotation>
                                          > </xsd:element>
                                          >
                                          > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                          type
                                          > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                          >
                                          > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                          >
                                          > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                          are
                                          > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to clarify
                                          > this point in future publications.
                                          >
                                          > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                          type
                                          > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                          import
                                          > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                          need in
                                          > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                          <import>
                                          > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must be
                                          > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                          > document.
                                          >
                                          > Hope this helps.
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                          > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                          > One Rogers Street
                                          > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                          > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                          > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                          > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                          > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                          > question (was Suggestion?)
                                          >
                                          > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                          > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through the
                                          > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                          > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                          > want to jump in first]
                                          >
                                          > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                          > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                          > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                          > require an import for wsdl.
                                          >
                                          > Cheers
                                          > Simon
                                          > www.pocketsoap.com
                                          >
                                          > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                          > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so should
                                          > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                          > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                          > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                          > >
                                          > > Pete
                                          > >
                                          > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > >Hi,
                                          > > >
                                          > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                          > any
                                          > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >Cheers
                                          > > >Simon
                                          > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                          > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                          > present
                                          > > >>in the schema.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Pete
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                          > current
                                          > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                          > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                          > > >>>>>
                                          > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be imported.
                                          > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                          > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                          > > >>>>
                                          > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                          > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                          > should be
                                          > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                          > the
                                          > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>Cheers
                                          > > >>>Simon
                                          > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                          > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                          > topic.
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >>>
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
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                                          > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                          > topic.
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                                        • Matt Long
                                          ... to ... Is it accurate to state:? The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not
                                          Message 20 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                            > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                            > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                            > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                            to
                                            > schema.

                                            Is it accurate to state:?

                                            The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                            schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                            imported.

                                            Thx,

                                            -Matt Long
                                            Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                            > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                            > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                            > Suggestion?)
                                            >
                                            > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                            > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                            > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                            > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                            to
                                            > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                            > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                            > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                            > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                            conforming to
                                            > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                            > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                            > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                            > One Rogers Street
                                            > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                            > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                            > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                            > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                            WSDL
                                            > question (was Suggestion?)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                            > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                            > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                            reference
                                            > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                            >
                                            > Fair summary?
                                            >
                                            > Thx,
                                            >
                                            > -Matt Long
                                            > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                            > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                            > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                            (was
                                            > > Suggestion?)
                                            > >
                                            > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                            > reference
                                            > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                            > >
                                            > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                            > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                            > > <xsd:annotation>
                                            > > <xsd:documentation>
                                            > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                            > > </xsd:documentation>
                                            > > </xsd:annotation>
                                            > > </xsd:element>
                                            > >
                                            > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                            > type
                                            > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                            > >
                                            > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                            > >
                                            > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                            > are
                                            > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                            clarify
                                            > > this point in future publications.
                                            > >
                                            > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                            > type
                                            > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                            > import
                                            > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                            > need in
                                            > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                            > <import>
                                            > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must
                                            be
                                            > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                            > > document.
                                            > >
                                            > > Hope this helps.
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                            > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                            > > One Rogers Street
                                            > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                            > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                            > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                            > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                            > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                            > >
                                            > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                            > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                            the
                                            > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                            > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                            > > want to jump in first]
                                            > >
                                            > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                            > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                            > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                            > > require an import for wsdl.
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers
                                            > > Simon
                                            > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                            > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                            should
                                            > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                            > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                            > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Pete
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >Hi,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                            > > any
                                            > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Cheers
                                            > > > >Simon
                                            > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                            > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                            > > present
                                            > > > >>in the schema.
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>Pete
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                            > > current
                                            > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                            > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                            > > > >>>>>
                                            > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                            imported.
                                            > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                            > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                            > > > >>>>
                                            > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                            > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                            > > should be
                                            > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                            > > the
                                            > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>Cheers
                                            > > > >>>Simon
                                            > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > >
                                            >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                            > > topic.
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >>>
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                            > > topic.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                            discuss
                                            > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                            > >
                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
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                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                            discuss
                                            > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                            > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                                          • noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
                                            Yes, I think that s close enough. I think your e.g. should be an I.e. though...it s not an example. ... Noah Mendelsohn
                                            Message 21 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Yes, I think that's close enough. I think your "e.g." should be an "I.e."
                                              though...it's not an example.

                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              One Rogers Street
                                              Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------







                                              "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                              05/06/2002 10:01 AM
                                              Please respond to soapbuilders


                                              To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                              cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was Suggestion?)


                                              > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                              > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                              > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                              > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                              to
                                              > schema.

                                              Is it accurate to state:?

                                              The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                              schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                              imported.

                                              Thx,

                                              -Matt Long
                                              Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                              > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                              > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                              > Suggestion?)
                                              >
                                              > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite correct.
                                              > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                              > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                              > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means nothing
                                              to
                                              > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                              > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                              > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants with
                                              > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                              conforming to
                                              > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                              > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              > One Rogers Street
                                              > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                              > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                              > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                              WSDL
                                              > question (was Suggestion?)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g., from
                                              > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported. However,
                                              > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                              reference
                                              > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                              >
                                              > Fair summary?
                                              >
                                              > Thx,
                                              >
                                              > -Matt Long
                                              > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                              > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                              > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                              (was
                                              > > Suggestion?)
                                              > >
                                              > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                              > reference
                                              > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                              > >
                                              > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                              > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                              > > <xsd:annotation>
                                              > > <xsd:documentation>
                                              > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                              > > </xsd:documentation>
                                              > > </xsd:annotation>
                                              > > </xsd:element>
                                              > >
                                              > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a schema
                                              > type
                                              > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                              > >
                                              > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                              > >
                                              > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in types
                                              > are
                                              > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                              clarify
                                              > > this point in future publications.
                                              > >
                                              > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If the
                                              > type
                                              > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                              > import
                                              > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                              > need in
                                              > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                              > <import>
                                              > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components must
                                              be
                                              > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                              > > document.
                                              > >
                                              > > Hope this helps.
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                              > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                              > > One Rogers Street
                                              > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                              > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                              > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                              > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL
                                              > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                              > >
                                              > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                              > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                              the
                                              > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending schema,
                                              > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema guys
                                              > > want to jump in first]
                                              > >
                                              > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the soap-enc
                                              > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                              > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                              > > require an import for wsdl.
                                              > >
                                              > > Cheers
                                              > > Simon
                                              > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                              > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                              should
                                              > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                              > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does not
                                              > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Pete
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >Hi,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value in
                                              > > any
                                              > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Cheers
                                              > > > >Simon
                                              > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                              > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array was
                                              > > present
                                              > > > >>in the schema.
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >>Pete
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                              > > current
                                              > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see why
                                              > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                              > > > >>>>>
                                              > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                              imported.
                                              > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                              > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                              > > > >>>>
                                              > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                              > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                              > > should be
                                              > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                              > > the
                                              > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>Cheers
                                              > > > >>>Simon
                                              > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > >
                                              >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                              > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                              > > topic.
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >>>
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                              > > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-
                                              > > topic.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > >soapbuilders-unsubscribe@y...
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                              discuss
                                              > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > >
                                              > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                                              discuss
                                              > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
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                                            • Matt Long
                                              Oops! I stand corrected (Beware the Ides of March!) i.e. = id est = that is e.g. = exempli gratia = for example Thx, -Matt Long Phalanx Systems, LLC ...
                                              Message 22 of 22 , May 6, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Oops!
                                                I stand corrected (Beware the Ides of March!)

                                                i.e. = id est = "that is"

                                                e.g. = exempli gratia = "for example"

                                                Thx,

                                                -Matt Long
                                                Phalanx Systems, LLC



                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                                > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:21 AM
                                                > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question (was
                                                > Suggestion?)
                                                >
                                                > Yes, I think that's close enough. I think your "e.g." should be an
                                                "I.e."
                                                > though...it's not an example.
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                                > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                                > One Rogers Street
                                                > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                                > 05/06/2002 10:01 AM
                                                > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                                > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                                WSDL
                                                > question (was Suggestion?)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite
                                                correct.
                                                > > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                                > > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                                > > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means
                                                nothing
                                                > to
                                                > > schema.
                                                >
                                                > Is it accurate to state:?
                                                >
                                                > The wsdl namespace qualifies an attribute that is not a referenced
                                                > schema component, e.g., the wsdl namespace is not required to be
                                                > imported.
                                                >
                                                > Thx,
                                                >
                                                > -Matt Long
                                                > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > From: noah_mendelsohn@... [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                                > > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:24 AM
                                                > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                                (was
                                                > > Suggestion?)
                                                > >
                                                > > Right conclusion, though I'm not sure your reasoning is quite
                                                correct.
                                                > > soap-enc must be imported in your example because it is used in a
                                                > > reference to a _schema_ component (in this case a type). In the
                                                > > example, the wsdl: namespace qualifies an attribute that means
                                                nothing
                                                > to
                                                > > schema. Although its presence is legal, it is considered to be like
                                                > > <xsd:annotation>, a means of adding extensions that schema does not
                                                > > understand. A wsdl-knowledgeable processor can do what it wants
                                                with
                                                > > this, but there is no need for a schema import...a processor
                                                > conforming to
                                                > > only the schema recommendation will do essentially nothing with the
                                                > > wsdl:arrayType attribute.
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                                > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                                > > One Rogers Street
                                                > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > "Matt Long" <mlong@...>
                                                > > 05/03/2002 03:38 PM
                                                > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                                > > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                                > WSDL
                                                > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > For soap-enc arrays we are referencing soap-enc attributes, e.g.,
                                                from
                                                > > below, the soap-enc namespace is *required* to be imported.
                                                However,
                                                > > the wsdl namespace does not need to be imported as it does not
                                                > reference
                                                > > an external attribute, simpleType, or complexType.
                                                > >
                                                > > Fair summary?
                                                > >
                                                > > Thx,
                                                > >
                                                > > -Matt Long
                                                > > Phalanx Systems, LLC
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > From: noah_mendelsohn@...
                                                [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@...]
                                                > > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:17 PM
                                                > > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in WSDL question
                                                > (was
                                                > > > Suggestion?)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > A schema document must import every namespace that is used in a
                                                > > reference
                                                > > > to a schema component. Thus, in the following fragment:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > <xsd:element name="e" type="ns1:t"
                                                > > > ns2:randomNonStandardExtensionAttr="ns3:xxx">
                                                > > > <xsd:annotation>
                                                > > > <xsd:documentation>
                                                > > > <html:body> ...</html:body>
                                                > > > </xsd:documentation>
                                                > > > </xsd:annotation>
                                                > > > </xsd:element>
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ns1 must be imported, because it is used in a reference to a
                                                schema
                                                > > type
                                                > > > ns1:t. ns2, ns3, and html need not be imported. In the example,
                                                > > >
                                                > > > <xsd:element name="e" type="xsd:integer"/>
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I believe there is no need to import xsd, because the built-in
                                                types
                                                > > are
                                                > > > pre-imported. I believe I opened an issue to the schema WG to
                                                > clarify
                                                > > > this point in future publications.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > By the way, you need only import things directly referenced. If
                                                the
                                                > > type
                                                > > > ns1:t above was derived from ns5:base, there would be no need to
                                                > > import
                                                > > > ns5 in this schema document. (There almost surely would be such a
                                                > > need in
                                                > > > the schema document for the target namespace ns1.) In general,
                                                > > <import>
                                                > > > is there to distinguish namespaces for which schema components
                                                must
                                                > be
                                                > > > acquired, from all the other random uses of namespaces in a schema
                                                > > > document.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Hope this helps.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > > > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036
                                                > > > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676
                                                > > > One Rogers Street
                                                > > > Cambridge, MA 02142
                                                > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > "simonfell99" <soap@...>
                                                > > > 05/03/02 12:52 PM
                                                > > > Please respond to soapbuilders
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > cc: (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
                                                > > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: multiple schemas in
                                                WSDL
                                                > > > question (was Suggestion?)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I don't think there's a requirement for schema documents to import
                                                > > > all namespaces that appear in the doc. I had a quick look through
                                                > the
                                                > > > schema spec and didn't spot a section that covered extending
                                                schema,
                                                > > > i'll have a more detailed look later [unless one of the schema
                                                guys
                                                > > > want to jump in first]
                                                > > >
                                                > > > FWIW, I see the same results as Matt, MSXML4.0 requires the
                                                soap-enc
                                                > > > import [and this is missing from so many docs, that i now have an
                                                > > > option in my WSDL tools to insert it if needed :(], but doesn't
                                                > > > require an import for wsdl.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Cheers
                                                > > > Simon
                                                > > > www.pocketsoap.com
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...> wrote:
                                                > > > > Does this matter? It is used as a namespace in the schema so
                                                > should
                                                > > > > it not be included? Does the definition of anyAttribute in
                                                > > > > SOAP-ENC:arrayType as "lax" mean that the wsdl namespace does
                                                not
                                                > > > > need to be resolved to its schema?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Pete
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Simon Fell wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > >Hi,
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >But unlike soap-enc, the wsdl namespace is not used as a value
                                                in
                                                > > > any
                                                > > > > >of the schema defined element / attribute.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >Cheers
                                                > > > > >Simon
                                                > > > > >www.pocketsoap.com
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >On Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:26 +1200, in soap you wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >>soap-enc array definitions in WSDL use wsdl:arrayType
                                                > > > > >>
                                                > > > > >> <xsd:attribute ref="SOAP-ENC:arrayType"
                                                > > > wsdl:arrayType="xsd1:Snapshot[]"/>
                                                > > > > >>
                                                > > > > >>Obviously the wsdl schema would only be required if an array
                                                was
                                                > > > present
                                                > > > > >>in the schema.
                                                > > > > >>
                                                > > > > >>Pete
                                                > > > > >>
                                                > > > > >>simonfell99 wrote:
                                                > > > > >>
                                                > > > > >>>--- In soapbuilders@y..., Pete Hendry <peter.hendry@c...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > > > > >>>
                                                > > > > >>>>>Imo, the soap-enc namespace _should _ be imported. While
                                                > > > current
                                                > > > > >>>>>SoapBuilderWSDLs mainly do not provide this, I don't see
                                                why
                                                > > > > >>>>>soap-enc namespace should be exempt from schema rules.
                                                > > > > >>>>>
                                                > > > > >>>>I agree with this. Also, the wsdl namespace should be
                                                > imported.
                                                > > > > >>>>It is not special either. A conforming schema parser should
                                                > > > > >>>>error with the current schemas being generated.
                                                > > > > >>>>
                                                > > > > >>>Right, I raised the import for soap-enc issue at the last
                                                > > > > >>>SOAPBuilders F2F. I'm less clear on why the WSDL namespace
                                                > > > should be
                                                > > > > >>>imported, I don't recall any schema constructs that reference
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > >>>WSDL namespace, Care to give an example ?
                                                > > > > >>>
                                                > > > > >>>Cheers
                                                > > > > >>>Simon
                                                > > > > >>>www.pocketsoap.com
                                                > > > > >>>
                                                > > > > >>>
                                                > > > > >>>
                                                > > > >
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