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RE: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments

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  • Dick Brooks (T)
    ... ebXML s Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments. Dick Brooks co-author ebXML s Message Service mailto:dick@tech-comm.com
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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      JP Moresmau wrote:

      >more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
      >like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
      >(the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
      >order/anything you like as an attachment)

      ebXML's Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments.

      Dick Brooks
      co-author ebXML's Message Service
      mailto:dick@...
    • graham glass
      is the scenario that the sender doesn t have an HTTP server realistic? even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers on the home PCs to allow
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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        is the scenario that the sender doesn't have an HTTP server realistic?
        even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers
        on the home PCs to allow P2P file sharing.
         
        people transmit billions of HTML documents via HTTP every day and
        no-one seems to have a problem with this. ditto on the reliability front.
         
        cheers,
        graham
        -----Original Message-----
        From: JP Moresmau [mailto:jp@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:20 PM
        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments

        so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
        firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
        see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP
        nodes.

        cheers,
        graham

        Other things I'd see: non HTTP transport, where you don't have an HTTP server,
        or the server doesn't have HTTP access, transaction control (OK, I know HTTP's
        not reliable blah blah blah but you can get a pretty good idea that your
        message got accepted, and so that your document got received too), and maybe
        more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
        like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
        (the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
        order/anything you like as an attachment)

        cheers,

        JP

        JP Moresmau
        http://frenchstud.io

        Anyone for pUDDIng?
        http://www.opensorcerer.org
        An open-source implementation (registry and client) of UDDI (v2)


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      • graham glass
        does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that sends/receives SOAP attachments? cheers graham
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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          does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
          sends/receives SOAP attachments?
           
          cheers
          graham
        • Rich Salz
          ... Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender will not send it a malicious URL that might (a) be something the client can t
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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            > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
            > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
            > the file.

            Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
            will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
            client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
            be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
            to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

            In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
            inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
            etc.

            /r$
            --
            Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
            Encryption)
            http://www.zolera.com
          • graham glass
            hey, what s so bad about hotwax? ;-) ... From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@zolera.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM To: graham glass Cc:
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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              hey, what's so bad about hotwax? ;-)

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@...]
              Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM
              To: graham glass
              Cc: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments


              > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
              > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
              > the file.

              Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
              will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
              client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
              be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
              to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

              In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
              inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
              etc.

              /r$
              --
              Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
              Encryption)
              http://www.zolera.com
            • radosek@yahoo.com
              You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the chapter 3.5. Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and Receiving [2]. There is a WSDL
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.

                Comments?

                Radovan
                http://www.idoox.com


                [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                [2]
                http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                #ds_multipart

                --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                >
                > cheers
                > graham
              • Matt Long
                Hi Radovan, In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                  Hi Radovan,

                  In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is
                  what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                  Idoox implementation?

                  -Matt

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                  > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP attachments?
                  >
                  >
                  > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                  > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                  > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                  > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.
                  >
                  > Comments?
                  >
                  > Radovan
                  > http://www.idoox.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                  > [2]
                  > http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                  > #ds_multipart
                  >
                  > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                  > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                  > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                  > >
                  > > cheers
                  > > graham
                  >
                  >
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                  > stay on-topic.
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                • djohnson
                  Hello All, Matt
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                    Hello All, Matt
                  • Radovan Janecek
                    Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run the client. :-) Sincerely Radovan ...
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                      Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace
                      base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run
                      the client. :-)

                      Sincerely

                      Radovan


                      --- Matt Long <mlong@...> wrote:
                      > Hi Radovan,
                      >
                      > In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed
                      > base64Binary. my question is
                      > what impact if any would occur if the parts were
                      > typed hexBinary in the
                      > Idoox implementation?
                      >
                      > -Matt
                      >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                      > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP
                      > attachments?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] -
                      > especially to the
                      > > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content
                      > Sending and
                      > > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME
                      > attachments are used
                      > > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with
                      > Attachments as well.
                      > >
                      > > Comments?
                      > >
                      > > Radovan
                      > > http://www.idoox.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [1]
                      >
                      http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                      > > [2]
                      > >
                      >
                      http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                      > > #ds_multipart
                      > >
                      > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass"
                      > <graham@t...> wrote:
                      > > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC
                      > call that
                      > > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                      > > >
                      > > > cheers
                      > > > graham
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption!
                      > Grab your
                      > > copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide: "Securing Your Web
                      > Site for
                      > > Business." Get it Now!
                      > >
                      >
                      http://us.click.yahoo.com/n7RbFC/zhwCAA/yigFAA/W6uqlB/TM
                      > >
                      >
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                      >
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                      > implementations to
                      > > discuss implementation and interoperability
                      > issues. Please
                      > > stay on-topic.
                      > >
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                      > >
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                    • Pete Hendry
                      Graham, sorry for the delay, What about the cases where - the document being attached is not from a file system e.g. from a database (quite common) - it is a
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 8, 2001
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                        Graham, sorry for the delay,

                        What about the cases where

                        - the document being attached is not from a file system
                        e.g. from a database (quite common)

                        - it is a file but it is secure. i.e. the client used some
                        sort of login over soap to access the service that is
                        providing the file. The deserialization code would
                        not know how to login to the website to retrieve the file

                        - the serverside code receives the object using some third
                        party code as an InputStream, a DataSource or whatever and
                        does not know how the data was stored

                        - the serverside code acts as a proxy to a back-end system
                        that returns the data - for example it may call a mainframe,
                        may call off to an external supplier, may use JMS, etc
                        (similar to first point but out of your control)

                        - the HTTP server hosting the file is down (but the service
                        is up)

                        - and of course, the WSDL for someone elses service that you
                        want to access specifies use of MIME

                        I'm sure there are more to add. Don't be so lazy (you've probably finished it by now ;) ).

                        Pete

                        Rich Salz wrote:
                        >
                        > > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL
                        > of
                        > > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                        > > the file.
                        >
                        > Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                        > will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                        > client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                        > be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                        > to "hotwax.com"?), etc.
                        >
                        > In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                        > inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                        > etc.
                        >
                        > /r$
                        > --
                        > Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                        > Encryption)
                        > http://www.zolera.com
                        >
                        >
                        > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                        > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                        > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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