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Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments

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  • JP Moresmau
    so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can t see why
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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      so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
      firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
      see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP
      nodes.

      cheers,
      graham

      Other things I'd see: non HTTP transport, where you don't have an HTTP server,
      or the server doesn't have HTTP access, transaction control (OK, I know HTTP's
      not reliable blah blah blah but you can get a pretty good idea that your
      message got accepted, and so that your document got received too), and maybe
      more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
      like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
      (the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
      order/anything you like as an attachment)

      cheers,

      JP

      JP Moresmau
      http://frenchstud.io

      Anyone for pUDDIng?
      http://www.opensorcerer.org
      An open-source implementation (registry and client) of UDDI (v2)
    • Dick Brooks (T)
      ... ebXML s Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments. Dick Brooks co-author ebXML s Message Service mailto:dick@tech-comm.com
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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        JP Moresmau wrote:

        >more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
        >like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
        >(the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
        >order/anything you like as an attachment)

        ebXML's Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments.

        Dick Brooks
        co-author ebXML's Message Service
        mailto:dick@...
      • graham glass
        is the scenario that the sender doesn t have an HTTP server realistic? even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers on the home PCs to allow
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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          is the scenario that the sender doesn't have an HTTP server realistic?
          even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers
          on the home PCs to allow P2P file sharing.
           
          people transmit billions of HTML documents via HTTP every day and
          no-one seems to have a problem with this. ditto on the reliability front.
           
          cheers,
          graham
          -----Original Message-----
          From: JP Moresmau [mailto:jp@...]
          Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:20 PM
          To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments

          so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
          firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
          see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP
          nodes.

          cheers,
          graham

          Other things I'd see: non HTTP transport, where you don't have an HTTP server,
          or the server doesn't have HTTP access, transaction control (OK, I know HTTP's
          not reliable blah blah blah but you can get a pretty good idea that your
          message got accepted, and so that your document got received too), and maybe
          more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
          like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
          (the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
          order/anything you like as an attachment)

          cheers,

          JP

          JP Moresmau
          http://frenchstud.io

          Anyone for pUDDIng?
          http://www.opensorcerer.org
          An open-source implementation (registry and client) of UDDI (v2)


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        • graham glass
          does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that sends/receives SOAP attachments? cheers graham
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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            does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
            sends/receives SOAP attachments?
             
            cheers
            graham
          • Rich Salz
            ... Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender will not send it a malicious URL that might (a) be something the client can t
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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              > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
              > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
              > the file.

              Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
              will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
              client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
              be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
              to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

              In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
              inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
              etc.

              /r$
              --
              Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
              Encryption)
              http://www.zolera.com
            • graham glass
              hey, what s so bad about hotwax? ;-) ... From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@zolera.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM To: graham glass Cc:
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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                hey, what's so bad about hotwax? ;-)

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@...]
                Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM
                To: graham glass
                Cc: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments


                > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
                > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                > the file.

                Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

                In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                etc.

                /r$
                --
                Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                Encryption)
                http://www.zolera.com
              • radosek@yahoo.com
                You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the chapter 3.5. Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and Receiving [2]. There is a WSDL
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                  You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                  chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                  Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                  in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.

                  Comments?

                  Radovan
                  http://www.idoox.com


                  [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                  [2]
                  http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                  #ds_multipart

                  --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                  > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                  > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                  >
                  > cheers
                  > graham
                • Matt Long
                  Hi Radovan, In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                    Hi Radovan,

                    In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is
                    what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                    Idoox implementation?

                    -Matt

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                    > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                    > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP attachments?
                    >
                    >
                    > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                    > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                    > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                    > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.
                    >
                    > Comments?
                    >
                    > Radovan
                    > http://www.idoox.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                    > [2]
                    > http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                    > #ds_multipart
                    >
                    > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                    > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                    > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                    > >
                    > > cheers
                    > > graham
                    >
                    >
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                    > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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                    > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please
                    > stay on-topic.
                    >
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                    >
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                  • djohnson
                    Hello All, Matt
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                      Hello All, Matt
                    • Radovan Janecek
                      Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run the client. :-) Sincerely Radovan ...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                        Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace
                        base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run
                        the client. :-)

                        Sincerely

                        Radovan


                        --- Matt Long <mlong@...> wrote:
                        > Hi Radovan,
                        >
                        > In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed
                        > base64Binary. my question is
                        > what impact if any would occur if the parts were
                        > typed hexBinary in the
                        > Idoox implementation?
                        >
                        > -Matt
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                        > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                        > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP
                        > attachments?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] -
                        > especially to the
                        > > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content
                        > Sending and
                        > > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME
                        > attachments are used
                        > > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with
                        > Attachments as well.
                        > >
                        > > Comments?
                        > >
                        > > Radovan
                        > > http://www.idoox.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [1]
                        >
                        http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                        > > [2]
                        > >
                        >
                        http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                        > > #ds_multipart
                        > >
                        > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass"
                        > <graham@t...> wrote:
                        > > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC
                        > call that
                        > > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                        > > >
                        > > > cheers
                        > > > graham
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > ---------------------~-->
                        > > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption!
                        > Grab your
                        > > copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide: "Securing Your Web
                        > Site for
                        > > Business." Get it Now!
                        > >
                        >
                        http://us.click.yahoo.com/n7RbFC/zhwCAA/yigFAA/W6uqlB/TM
                        > >
                        >
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                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        -----------------------------------------------------------------
                        > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP
                        > implementations to
                        > > discuss implementation and interoperability
                        > issues. Please
                        > > stay on-topic.
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        >
                        >


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                      • Pete Hendry
                        Graham, sorry for the delay, What about the cases where - the document being attached is not from a file system e.g. from a database (quite common) - it is a
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 8, 2001
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                          Graham, sorry for the delay,

                          What about the cases where

                          - the document being attached is not from a file system
                          e.g. from a database (quite common)

                          - it is a file but it is secure. i.e. the client used some
                          sort of login over soap to access the service that is
                          providing the file. The deserialization code would
                          not know how to login to the website to retrieve the file

                          - the serverside code receives the object using some third
                          party code as an InputStream, a DataSource or whatever and
                          does not know how the data was stored

                          - the serverside code acts as a proxy to a back-end system
                          that returns the data - for example it may call a mainframe,
                          may call off to an external supplier, may use JMS, etc
                          (similar to first point but out of your control)

                          - the HTTP server hosting the file is down (but the service
                          is up)

                          - and of course, the WSDL for someone elses service that you
                          want to access specifies use of MIME

                          I'm sure there are more to add. Don't be so lazy (you've probably finished it by now ;) ).

                          Pete

                          Rich Salz wrote:
                          >
                          > > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL
                          > of
                          > > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                          > > the file.
                          >
                          > Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                          > will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                          > client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                          > be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                          > to "hotwax.com"?), etc.
                          >
                          > In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                          > inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                          > etc.
                          >
                          > /r$
                          > --
                          > Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                          > Encryption)
                          > http://www.zolera.com
                          >
                          >
                          > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                          > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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