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question re: SOAP attachments

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  • graham glass
    hi guys, i ve been looking at adding support for SOAP attachments to GLUE and have a basic question - why is this feature needed? if i want to pass a MIME file
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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      hi guys,
       
      i've been looking at adding support for SOAP attachments to GLUE and have
      a basic question - why is this feature needed?
       
      if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
      the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load the file.
      this is super-easy to do and doesn't require any additional specification.
       
      so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
      firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
      see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP nodes.
       
      cheers,
      graham
    • graham glass
      another question cos i m lazy: does .NET support SOAP attachments? cheers graham
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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        another question 'cos i'm lazy: does .NET support SOAP attachments?
         
        cheers
        graham
      • JP Moresmau
        so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can t see why
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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          so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
          firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
          see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP
          nodes.

          cheers,
          graham

          Other things I'd see: non HTTP transport, where you don't have an HTTP server,
          or the server doesn't have HTTP access, transaction control (OK, I know HTTP's
          not reliable blah blah blah but you can get a pretty good idea that your
          message got accepted, and so that your document got received too), and maybe
          more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
          like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
          (the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
          order/anything you like as an attachment)

          cheers,

          JP

          JP Moresmau
          http://frenchstud.io

          Anyone for pUDDIng?
          http://www.opensorcerer.org
          An open-source implementation (registry and client) of UDDI (v2)
        • Dick Brooks (T)
          ... ebXML s Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments. Dick Brooks co-author ebXML s Message Service mailto:dick@tech-comm.com
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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            JP Moresmau wrote:

            >more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
            >like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
            >(the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
            >order/anything you like as an attachment)

            ebXML's Message Service *IS* based on SOAP and SOAP with Attachments.

            Dick Brooks
            co-author ebXML's Message Service
            mailto:dick@...
          • graham glass
            is the scenario that the sender doesn t have an HTTP server realistic? even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers on the home PCs to allow
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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              is the scenario that the sender doesn't have an HTTP server realistic?
              even the low-cost P2P networks have started to use HTTP servers
              on the home PCs to allow P2P file sharing.
               
              people transmit billions of HTML documents via HTTP every day and
              no-one seems to have a problem with this. ditto on the reliability front.
               
              cheers,
              graham
              -----Original Message-----
              From: JP Moresmau [mailto:jp@...]
              Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:20 PM
              To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments

              so is the purpose of SOAP attachments to support passing files through
              firewalls, multi-hop scenarios or something special like that? because i can't
              see why you need it for the basic scenario of passing files between SOAP
              nodes.

              cheers,
              graham

              Other things I'd see: non HTTP transport, where you don't have an HTTP server,
              or the server doesn't have HTTP access, transaction control (OK, I know HTTP's
              not reliable blah blah blah but you can get a pretty good idea that your
              message got accepted, and so that your document got received too), and maybe
              more importantly, when SOAP is used as the underlying protocol to something
              like ebXML, clean separation between transport/routing/security information
              (the SOAP message itself) and the payload (the PO/invoice/shipping
              order/anything you like as an attachment)

              cheers,

              JP

              JP Moresmau
              http://frenchstud.io

              Anyone for pUDDIng?
              http://www.opensorcerer.org
              An open-source implementation (registry and client) of UDDI (v2)


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            • graham glass
              does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that sends/receives SOAP attachments? cheers graham
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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                does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                 
                cheers
                graham
              • Rich Salz
                ... Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender will not send it a malicious URL that might (a) be something the client can t
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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                  > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
                  > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                  > the file.

                  Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                  will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                  client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                  be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                  to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

                  In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                  inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                  etc.

                  /r$
                  --
                  Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                  Encryption)
                  http://www.zolera.com
                • graham glass
                  hey, what s so bad about hotwax? ;-) ... From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@zolera.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM To: graham glass Cc:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 3, 2001
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                    hey, what's so bad about hotwax? ;-)

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@...]
                    Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:22 PM
                    To: graham glass
                    Cc: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] question re: SOAP attachments


                    > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL of
                    > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                    > the file.

                    Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                    will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                    client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                    be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                    to "hotwax.com"?), etc.

                    In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                    inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                    etc.

                    /r$
                    --
                    Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                    Encryption)
                    http://www.zolera.com
                  • radosek@yahoo.com
                    You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the chapter 3.5. Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and Receiving [2]. There is a WSDL
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                      You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                      chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                      Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                      in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.

                      Comments?

                      Radovan
                      http://www.idoox.com


                      [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                      [2]
                      http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                      #ds_multipart

                      --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                      > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                      > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                      >
                      > cheers
                      > graham
                    • Matt Long
                      Hi Radovan, In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                        Hi Radovan,

                        In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed base64Binary. my question is
                        what impact if any would occur if the parts were typed hexBinary in the
                        Idoox implementation?

                        -Matt

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                        > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP attachments?
                        >
                        >
                        > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] - especially to the
                        > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content Sending and
                        > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME attachments are used
                        > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with Attachments as well.
                        >
                        > Comments?
                        >
                        > Radovan
                        > http://www.idoox.com
                        >
                        >
                        > [1] http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                        > [2]
                        > http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                        > #ds_multipart
                        >
                        > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass" <graham@t...> wrote:
                        > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC call that
                        > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                        > >
                        > > cheers
                        > > graham
                        >
                        >
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                        > stay on-topic.
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                      • djohnson
                        Hello All, Matt
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                          Hello All, Matt
                        • Radovan Janecek
                          Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run the client. :-) Sincerely Radovan ...
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 4, 2001
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                            Yes. You can try it out, just make this demo, replace
                            base64Binary by hexBinary in generated WSDL and run
                            the client. :-)

                            Sincerely

                            Radovan


                            --- Matt Long <mlong@...> wrote:
                            > Hi Radovan,
                            >
                            > In example [2], the parts p0, p1 are typed
                            > base64Binary. my question is
                            > what impact if any would occur if the parts were
                            > typed hexBinary in the
                            > Idoox implementation?
                            >
                            > -Matt
                            >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: radosek@... [mailto:radosek@...]
                            > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:21 AM
                            > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [soapbuilders] Re: WSDL for SOAP
                            > attachments?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > You can look at WASP Programmers Guide [1] -
                            > especially to the
                            > > chapter 3.5. "Using MIME Multipart/Related Content
                            > Sending and
                            > > Receiving" [2]. There is a WSDL example how MIME
                            > attachments are used
                            > > in WSDL. This WSDL can be used for SOAP with
                            > Attachments as well.
                            > >
                            > > Comments?
                            > >
                            > > Radovan
                            > > http://www.idoox.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [1]
                            >
                            http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/programmers_guide.html
                            > > [2]
                            > >
                            >
                            http://www.idoox.com/eap/wasp/doc/htmldata/programmers_guide_body.html
                            > > #ds_multipart
                            > >
                            > > --- In soapbuilders@y..., "graham glass"
                            > <graham@t...> wrote:
                            > > > does anyone have a sample WSDL that shows an RPC
                            > call that
                            > > > sends/receives SOAP attachments?
                            > > >
                            > > > cheers
                            > > > graham
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                            > > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption!
                            > Grab your
                            > > copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide: "Securing Your Web
                            > Site for
                            > > Business." Get it Now!
                            > >
                            >
                            http://us.click.yahoo.com/n7RbFC/zhwCAA/yigFAA/W6uqlB/TM
                            > >
                            >
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                            > >
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                            > implementations to
                            > > discuss implementation and interoperability
                            > issues. Please
                            > > stay on-topic.
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                            > >
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                          • Pete Hendry
                            Graham, sorry for the delay, What about the cases where - the document being attached is not from a file system e.g. from a database (quite common) - it is a
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 8, 2001
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                              Graham, sorry for the delay,

                              What about the cases where

                              - the document being attached is not from a file system
                              e.g. from a database (quite common)

                              - it is a file but it is secure. i.e. the client used some
                              sort of login over soap to access the service that is
                              providing the file. The deserialization code would
                              not know how to login to the website to retrieve the file

                              - the serverside code receives the object using some third
                              party code as an InputStream, a DataSource or whatever and
                              does not know how the data was stored

                              - the serverside code acts as a proxy to a back-end system
                              that returns the data - for example it may call a mainframe,
                              may call off to an external supplier, may use JMS, etc
                              (similar to first point but out of your control)

                              - the HTTP server hosting the file is down (but the service
                              is up)

                              - and of course, the WSDL for someone elses service that you
                              want to access specifies use of MIME

                              I'm sure there are more to add. Don't be so lazy (you've probably finished it by now ;) ).

                              Pete

                              Rich Salz wrote:
                              >
                              > > if i want to pass a MIME file between nodes, i can simply pass the URL
                              > of
                              > > the mime file to the server and the server can do an HTTP GET to load
                              > > the file.
                              >
                              > Sure, as long as the SOAP receiver can always trust that the SOAP sender
                              > will not send it a "malicious" URL that might (a) be something the
                              > client can't read, but the server can; (b) be something the server would
                              > be "embarassed" to fetch ('Graham, why is your server constantly going
                              > to "hotwax.com"?), etc.
                              >
                              > In addition, once the data is no longer directly included, it's
                              > inherently less reliable, it's hard to deal with signing/encryption,
                              > etc.
                              >
                              > /r$
                              > --
                              > Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
                              > Encryption)
                              > http://www.zolera.com
                              >
                              >
                              > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                              > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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