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Re: [soapbuilders] EasySoap++ Bid service

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  • David Crowley
    ... I m taking my server down for a bit. I will try and I have it back up later today, tonight at the latest. I have more work to get href/id de-serializing
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1, 2001
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      >
      >
      > I did some reworking on things tonight and I'm pretty sure I have
      > the my bid service working alot better now. I got lucky and happened
      > to snatch a MS .NET request with a bunch of id/hrefs that made things
      > crash and after some work I was able to de-serialize it correctly.
      > So all, please try banging your clients against it and let me know
      > if you run into problems. Thanks,
      >
      > David
      >
      >


      I'm taking my server down for a bit. I will try and I have it back up
      later today, tonight at the latest. I have more work to get href/id
      de-serializing correctly... grrr... Also, as I was watching the packet
      dumps of people hitting my server, I had questions to ask them but I
      have no idea who was who. It would be nice if the implementationts
      identified themselves with a SOAPClient tag. Anyways, somebody has been
      trying to hit my site with a namespace of "http://soapinterop.org/Bid"
      but it needs to be "http://www.soapinterop.org/Bid". FYI...

      David
    • Radovan Janecek
      EasySoap++ works with Idoox WASP client now! Register your service with http://www.idoox.com:8000/vegas/results.jsp to track the current state better. Radovan
      Message 2 of 11 , May 2, 2001
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        EasySoap++ works with Idoox WASP client now!
        Register your service with
        http://www.idoox.com:8000/vegas/results.jsp to track
        the current state better.

        Radovan Janecek
        idoox.com

        --- David Crowley <dcrowley@...> wrote:
        >
        > I did some reworking on things tonight and I'm
        > pretty sure I have
        > the my bid service working alot better now. I got
        > lucky and happened
        > to snatch a MS .NET request with a bunch of id/hrefs
        > that made things
        > crash and after some work I was able to de-serialize
        > it correctly.
        > So all, please try banging your clients against it
        > and let me know
        > if you run into problems. Thanks,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >


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      • Paul Kulchenko
        Hi, All! This question is already covered in XML Protocol issues, but there is no solution offered, so I would like to get opinions here. Problem: encoding of
        Message 3 of 11 , May 3, 2001
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          Hi, All!

          This question is already covered in XML Protocol issues, but there is
          no solution offered, so I would like to get opinions here.

          Problem: encoding of element with illegal characters in the name ('a
          c', space between a and c)

          Possible solutions:
          1. specific type, like recently discussed Map.
          - specific for hash/map/struct encoding
          - didn't get much support
          + already implemented by ApacheSOAP and SOAP::Lite

          2. element escaping as in [1]. <a c> becomes <a_x0020_c>
          + works for all elements
          - list of issues [2]
          - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit

          3. name substitution. <a c> becomes <n1 realname="a c"> [3]
          + works for all elements
          + less number of issues than 2.
          - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit

          I personally like 2, but I couldn't find document Andrew mentioned in
          [1], and current webDAV specification doesn't have anything about
          character escaping (or I missed it there). So, what's everybody's
          opinion on encoding elements with illegal names?

          Best wishes, Paul.

          [1]
          http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=29921
          [2]
          http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=30851
          [3]
          http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=33153


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        • paulclinger@yahoo.com
          Hi, All! I hope previous message [1] was just lost in number if posts, because nobody responded and I can t believe that nobody cares. I would like to know
          Message 4 of 11 , May 17, 2001
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            Hi, All!

            I hope previous message [1] was just lost in number if posts, because
            nobody responded and I can't believe that nobody cares. I would like
            to know other opinions on encoding elements with XML-invalid names.

            Best wishes, Paul.

            [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/2909
          • grahamd@dscpl.com.au
            ... because ... like ... Can you post an actual example of what the XML looks like for the first case of using Map structure. Having trouble finding any
            Message 5 of 11 , May 18, 2001
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              --- In soapbuilders@y..., paulclinger@y... wrote:
              > Hi, All!
              >
              > I hope previous message [1] was just lost in number if posts,
              because
              > nobody responded and I can't believe that nobody cares. I would
              like
              > to know other opinions on encoding elements with XML-invalid names.
              >
              > Best wishes, Paul.
              >
              > [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/2909

              Can you post an actual example of what the XML looks like for the
              first case of using Map structure. Having trouble finding any
              documentation in SOAP-Lite or ApacheSoap which gives an example. I
              can't easily get SOAP-Lite to a state that it would run and have it
              produce output to look at and reading Perl code isn't something I am
              good at.

              The third case is basically the same thing I do now in an XML format
              I use in MOM style distributed messaging system and RPC over HTTP
              mechanism. Only difference is I use "name" instead of "realname". I
              have found in the past that using an attribute is the simplest way of
              doing it. You are limited to key being a string however.

              I too would like to see this issue discussed further, as without an
              accepted means of doing this, I can't put together a gateway for SOAP
              for the systems I have. If I just come up with my own way, chances
              are that nothing could then ever talk to it except clients I produce
              myself.

              BTW, the PythonWare SOAP library defines a type which is possibly
              similar to Map. Reading the code, they encode Python dictionaries as:

              <tag xsi:type='lab:PythonDict'>
              <k xsi:type="xsd:string">key1</k>
              <v xsi:type="xsd:int">1</k>
              <k xsi:type="xsd:string">key2</k>
              <v xsi:type="xsd:int">2</k>
              </tag>

              I believe they support any type as the key and not just string. This
              is more generic than using an attribute, as an attribute would only
              allow a string key.

              Does this Map type only allow string key or any type?
            • Rich Salz
              I much prefer an attribute. The problem is a general one: how do I encode a name that is not a valid XML element name ? It s a good problem. Defining a new
              Message 6 of 11 , May 18, 2001
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                I much prefer an attribute. The problem is a general one: "how do I
                encode a name that is not a valid XML element name"? It's a good
                problem.

                Defining a new type is not a solution, because the name is independant
                of the type; I could have string whose name is "a c".

                Defining an encoding is not a solution, for two reasons. First, there
                is no way to tell that "a_x0020_c" is an encoded name, or not, which
                could cause a problem if I have a real name that looks like an encoded
                one. Second, there is no guarantee that the encoding method will always
                be appropriate, or even work. (E.g.., serializing a core dump where the
                "variables" are numeric memory locations. :)

                Therefore, I think the best approach is to define a new attribute used
                to indicate the real name. This attribute would include the encoding
                scheme as part of its semantics.

                This approach is also extensible because you could put more than one
                attribute, providing alternate names in diffferent encoding styles.

                And finally, channeling for Noah :), I can forward this to the dist-app
                list.
                /r$
              • Paul Kulchenko
                Hi, Graham! ...
                Message 7 of 11 , May 18, 2001
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                  Hi, Graham!

                  > Can you post an actual example of what the XML looks like for the
                  > first case of using Map structure. Having trouble finding any

                  <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
                  <SOAP-ENV:Envelope
                  xmlns:SOAP-ENC="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                  SOAP-ENV:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                  xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema-instance"
                  xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/"
                  xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema"
                  xmlns:xmlsoap="http://xml.apache.org/xml-soap">
                  <SOAP-ENV:Body>
                  <something>
                  <map xsi:type="xmlsoap:Map">
                  <item><key xsi:type="SOAP-ENC:base64">AAE=</key>
                  <value xsi:type="xsd:int">456</value>
                  </item>
                  <item><key xsi:type="xsd:string">a</key>
                  <value xsi:type="xsd:int">123</value>
                  </item>
                  </map>
                  </something>
                  </SOAP-ENV:Body></SOAP-ENV:Envelope>

                  > can't easily get SOAP-Lite to a state that it would run and have it
                  > produce output to look at and reading Perl code isn't something I
                  > am good at.

                  Here is the actual code you may use to produce Map:

                  use SOAP::Lite;

                  my $key = "\0\1";
                  my $value = 456;

                  print SOAP::Serializer->readable(1)->envelope(method =>
                  something => SOAP::Data->name(map => {a => 123, $key => $value})
                  );

                  > I believe they support any type as the key and not just string.
                  > This
                  > is more generic than using an attribute, as an attribute would only
                  > allow a string key.
                  Looks very similar to what Map does.

                  > Does this Map type only allow string key or any type?
                  Any type. My example has binary string as the key, so it's encoded as
                  base64.

                  > mechanism. Only difference is I use "name" instead of "realname". I
                  > have found in the past that using an attribute is the simplest way
                  > of
                  > doing it. You are limited to key being a string however.
                  I agree. attributes has their own limitations, but it seems like most
                  flexible solution. I would be glad to implement any of them, I just
                  want to settle on something.

                  Best wishes, Paul.

                  --- grahamd@... wrote:
                  > --- In soapbuilders@y..., paulclinger@y... wrote:
                  > > Hi, All!
                  > >
                  > > I hope previous message [1] was just lost in number if posts,
                  > because
                  > > nobody responded and I can't believe that nobody cares. I would
                  > like
                  > > to know other opinions on encoding elements with XML-invalid
                  > names.
                  > >
                  > > Best wishes, Paul.
                  > >
                  > > [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/2909
                  >
                  > Can you post an actual example of what the XML looks like for the
                  > first case of using Map structure. Having trouble finding any
                  > documentation in SOAP-Lite or ApacheSoap which gives an example. I
                  > can't easily get SOAP-Lite to a state that it would run and have it
                  > produce output to look at and reading Perl code isn't something I
                  > am
                  > good at.
                  >
                  > The third case is basically the same thing I do now in an XML
                  > format
                  > I use in MOM style distributed messaging system and RPC over HTTP
                  > mechanism. Only difference is I use "name" instead of "realname". I
                  > have found in the past that using an attribute is the simplest way
                  > of
                  > doing it. You are limited to key being a string however.
                  >
                  > I too would like to see this issue discussed further, as without an
                  >
                  > accepted means of doing this, I can't put together a gateway for
                  > SOAP
                  > for the systems I have. If I just come up with my own way, chances
                  > are that nothing could then ever talk to it except clients I
                  > produce
                  > myself.
                  >
                  > BTW, the PythonWare SOAP library defines a type which is possibly
                  > similar to Map. Reading the code, they encode Python dictionaries
                  > as:
                  >
                  > <tag xsi:type='lab:PythonDict'>
                  > <k xsi:type="xsd:string">key1</k>
                  > <v xsi:type="xsd:int">1</k>
                  > <k xsi:type="xsd:string">key2</k>
                  > <v xsi:type="xsd:int">2</k>
                  > </tag>
                  >
                  > I believe they support any type as the key and not just string.
                  > This
                  > is more generic than using an attribute, as an attribute would only
                  >
                  > allow a string key.
                  >
                  > Does this Map type only allow string key or any type?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


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                • Andrew Layman
                  The most thorough and current documentation of the algorithm for escaping element names is in this proposal to the SQL standards committee:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 5, 2001
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                    The most thorough and current documentation of the algorithm for
                    escaping element names is in this proposal to the SQL standards
                    committee:

                    ftp://sqlstandards.org/SC32/WG3/Progression_Documents/WD/wd-xml-2001-05.
                    pdf

                    See sections 4.2.6, 5.1 and 5.4.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Paul Kulchenko [mailto:paulclinger@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:24 PM
                    To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [soapbuilders] Element name escaping


                    Hi, All!

                    This question is already covered in XML Protocol issues, but there is no
                    solution offered, so I would like to get opinions here.

                    Problem: encoding of element with illegal characters in the name ('a c',
                    space between a and c)

                    Possible solutions:
                    1. specific type, like recently discussed Map.
                    - specific for hash/map/struct encoding
                    - didn't get much support
                    + already implemented by ApacheSOAP and SOAP::Lite

                    2. element escaping as in [1]. <a c> becomes <a_x0020_c>
                    + works for all elements
                    - list of issues [2]
                    - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit

                    3. name substitution. <a c> becomes <n1 realname="a c"> [3]
                    + works for all elements
                    + less number of issues than 2.
                    - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit

                    I personally like 2, but I couldn't find document Andrew mentioned in
                    [1], and current webDAV specification doesn't have anything about
                    character escaping (or I missed it there). So, what's everybody's
                    opinion on encoding elements with illegal names?

                    Best wishes, Paul.

                    [1]
                    http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=29921
                    [2]
                    http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=30851
                    [3]
                    http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=33153


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                  • Paul Kulchenko
                    Hi, Andrew! ... ftp://sqlstandards.org/SC32/WG3/Progression_Documents/WD/wd-xml-2001-05.pdf ... I think spec has a typo: 5.4 2) a) i) If i = 1 and X i+3 , X
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 5, 2001
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                      Hi, Andrew!

                      --- Andrew Layman <andrewl@...> wrote:
                      > The most thorough and current documentation of the algorithm for
                      > escaping element names is in this proposal to the SQL standards
                      > committee:
                      >
                      >
                      ftp://sqlstandards.org/SC32/WG3/Progression_Documents/WD/wd-xml-2001-05.pdf
                      >
                      > See sections 4.2.6, 5.1 and 5.4.
                      I think spec has a typo:

                      5.4 2) a) i) If i = 1 and X i+3 , X i+4 , X i+5 , and X i+6 are all
                      �F�, then let U 1 , U 2 , U 3 , U 4 , U 5 , U 6 , and U 7
                      be the zero-length string.

                      I believe it should be:

                      5.4 2) a) i) If i = 1 and X i+2 , X i+3 , X i+4 , and X i+5 are all
                      �F�, then let U 1 , U 2 , U 3 , U 4 , U 5 , U 6 , and U 7
                      be the zero-length string.

                      considering the context.

                      To advantage of this method, it can be implemented on top of existent
                      encoding, and since it basically ignores underscores ('_') if it
                      doesn't match pattern _xNNNN_ or _xNNNNNNNN_, there is no (big)
                      problem with backward compatibility.

                      What should be the next step? What should be the procedure in
                      general:
                      spec is published,
                      spec has an issue,
                      issue discussed and solutions are offered,
                      one solution is choosen,
                      ?
                      solution is implemented.

                      What should be in place of the question mark? New version of spec is
                      published? Some agreement is published? Comments are published? We
                      agree on soapbuilders list? At what point we can say: "ok, now let's
                      do it this way"? Thank you.

                      Best wishes, Paul.

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Paul Kulchenko [mailto:paulclinger@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:24 PM
                      > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [soapbuilders] Element name escaping
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi, All!
                      >
                      > This question is already covered in XML Protocol issues, but there
                      > is no
                      > solution offered, so I would like to get opinions here.
                      >
                      > Problem: encoding of element with illegal characters in the name
                      > ('a c',
                      > space between a and c)
                      >
                      > Possible solutions:
                      > 1. specific type, like recently discussed Map.
                      > - specific for hash/map/struct encoding
                      > - didn't get much support
                      > + already implemented by ApacheSOAP and SOAP::Lite
                      >
                      > 2. element escaping as in [1]. <a c> becomes <a_x0020_c>
                      > + works for all elements
                      > - list of issues [2]
                      > - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit
                      >
                      > 3. name substitution. <a c> becomes <n1 realname="a c"> [3]
                      > + works for all elements
                      > + less number of issues than 2.
                      > - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit
                      >
                      > I personally like 2, but I couldn't find document Andrew mentioned
                      > in
                      > [1], and current webDAV specification doesn't have anything about
                      > character escaping (or I missed it there). So, what's everybody's
                      > opinion on encoding elements with illegal names?
                      >
                      > Best wishes, Paul.
                      >
                      > [1]
                      >
                      http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=29921
                      > [2]
                      >
                      http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=30851
                      > [3]
                      >
                      http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=33153
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >


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                    • Andrew Layman
                      You ask what the next steps should be. For the SQL Standards committee, of course, that is up to them. For us, I think we could agree to adopt the same
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 5, 2001
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                        You ask what the next steps should be. For the SQL Standards committee, of
                        course, that is up to them. For us, I think we could agree to adopt the
                        same convention.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Paul Kulchenko" <paulclinger@...>
                        To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: <xml-dist-app@...>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:31 PM
                        Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] Element name escaping


                        Hi, Andrew!

                        --- Andrew Layman <andrewl@...> wrote:
                        > The most thorough and current documentation of the algorithm for
                        > escaping element names is in this proposal to the SQL standards
                        > committee:
                        >
                        >
                        ftp://sqlstandards.org/SC32/WG3/Progression_Documents/WD/wd-xml-2001-05.pdf
                        >
                        > See sections 4.2.6, 5.1 and 5.4.
                        I think spec has a typo:

                        5.4 2) a) i) If i = 1 and X i+3 , X i+4 , X i+5 , and X i+6 are all
                        'F', then let U 1 , U 2 , U 3 , U 4 , U 5 , U 6 , and U 7
                        be the zero-length string.

                        I believe it should be:

                        5.4 2) a) i) If i = 1 and X i+2 , X i+3 , X i+4 , and X i+5 are all
                        'F', then let U 1 , U 2 , U 3 , U 4 , U 5 , U 6 , and U 7
                        be the zero-length string.

                        considering the context.

                        To advantage of this method, it can be implemented on top of existent
                        encoding, and since it basically ignores underscores ('_') if it
                        doesn't match pattern _xNNNN_ or _xNNNNNNNN_, there is no (big)
                        problem with backward compatibility.

                        What should be the next step? What should be the procedure in
                        general:
                        spec is published,
                        spec has an issue,
                        issue discussed and solutions are offered,
                        one solution is choosen,
                        ?
                        solution is implemented.

                        What should be in place of the question mark? New version of spec is
                        published? Some agreement is published? Comments are published? We
                        agree on soapbuilders list? At what point we can say: "ok, now let's
                        do it this way"? Thank you.

                        Best wishes, Paul.

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Paul Kulchenko [mailto:paulclinger@...]
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:24 PM
                        > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [soapbuilders] Element name escaping
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi, All!
                        >
                        > This question is already covered in XML Protocol issues, but there
                        > is no
                        > solution offered, so I would like to get opinions here.
                        >
                        > Problem: encoding of element with illegal characters in the name
                        > ('a c',
                        > space between a and c)
                        >
                        > Possible solutions:
                        > 1. specific type, like recently discussed Map.
                        > - specific for hash/map/struct encoding
                        > - didn't get much support
                        > + already implemented by ApacheSOAP and SOAP::Lite
                        >
                        > 2. element escaping as in [1]. <a c> becomes <a_x0020_c>
                        > + works for all elements
                        > - list of issues [2]
                        > - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit
                        >
                        > 3. name substitution. <a c> becomes <n1 realname="a c"> [3]
                        > + works for all elements
                        > + less number of issues than 2.
                        > - doesn't supported by any SOAP toolkit
                        >
                        > I personally like 2, but I couldn't find document Andrew mentioned
                        > in
                        > [1], and current webDAV specification doesn't have anything about
                        > character escaping (or I missed it there). So, what's everybody's
                        > opinion on encoding elements with illegal names?
                        >
                        > Best wishes, Paul.
                        >
                        > [1]
                        >
                        http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=29921
                        > [2]
                        >
                        http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=30851
                        > [3]
                        >
                        http://discuss.develop.com/archives/wa.exe?A2=ind0005&L=soap&D=0&P=33153
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >


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