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Re: [soapbuilders] [ANN]JAX-WS 2.1 FCS released

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  • Davanum Srinivas
    Sure. Just press the off button :) Did you see this already? http://www.bloglines.com/blog/sanjiva?id=180 -- dims ... -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://wso2.org/
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 13, 2007
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      Sure. Just press the off button :) Did you see this already?

      http://www.bloglines.com/blog/sanjiva?id=180

      -- dims

      On 2/13/07, Paul Downey <paul.downey@...> wrote:
      > > That's why i am very interested in seeing the relative performances of
      > > the two data bindings under JDK6 using woodstox running under tomcat.
      > > (Since kohsuke hinted at possible problem in GlassFish and we prefer
      > > woodstox, since we haven't spent any time with SJSXP).
      >
      > I'm quite frankly bored by this performance peeing contest:
      >
      > 1) Make it run.
      > 2) make it right.
      > 3) make it fast.
      >
      > Axis2, XFire, Glassfish, etc all need to try harder at (2).
      >
      > Paul
      > --
      > http://blog.whatfettle.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----------------------------------------------------------------
      > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Davanum Srinivas :: http://wso2.org/ :: Oxygen for Web Services Developers
    • Paul Downey
      ... thread killed :) ... Ah, so we learnt earlier how SOAP headers aren t the 80 case, and now should just use just use XML because databinding is evil. I
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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        On 13 Feb 2007, at 21:25, Davanum Srinivas wrote:


        > Sure. Just press the off button :)

        >
        thread killed :)


        > Did you see this already?
        >
        > http://www.bloglines.com/blog/sanjiva?id=180


        Ah, so we learnt earlier how SOAP headers
        aren't the 80 case, and now should just use
        just use XML because databinding is evil.

        I wonder where the baby is now we've tossed out
        the SOAP bath water.

        Paul
        --
        http://blog.whatfettle.com
      • Davanum Srinivas
        Paul, Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :) http://blog.chanezon.com/articles/2006/05/31/apache-abdera-and-rome-alea-jacta-est Just look at the
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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          Paul,

          Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :)
          http://blog.chanezon.com/articles/2006/05/31/apache-abdera-and-rome-alea-jacta-est

          Just look at the performance numbers for processing a huge feed that
          they posted. Yes, adding soap headers won't slow us (Axis2) down :)

          thanks,
          dims

          On 2/14/07, Paul Downey <paul.downey@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 13 Feb 2007, at 21:25, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
          >
          >
          > > Sure. Just press the off button :)
          >
          > >
          > thread killed :)
          >
          >
          > > Did you see this already?
          > >
          > > http://www.bloglines.com/blog/sanjiva?id=180
          >
          >
          > Ah, so we learnt earlier how SOAP headers
          > aren't the 80 case, and now should just use
          > just use XML because databinding is evil.
          >
          > I wonder where the baby is now we've tossed out
          > the SOAP bath water.
          >
          > Paul
          > --
          > http://blog.whatfettle.com
          >
          >
          >
          > -----------------------------------------------------------------
          > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Davanum Srinivas :: http://wso2.org/ :: Oxygen for Web Services Developers
        • Arjen Poutsma
          Please, can we stop the product plugging on this list? It s getting rather pathetic. Thanks, Arjen
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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            Please, can we stop the product plugging on this list? It's getting
            rather pathetic.

            Thanks,

            Arjen

            On 14-feb-2007, at 13:28, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

            > Paul,
            >
            > Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :)
            > http://blog.chanezon.com/articles/2006/05/31/apache-abdera-and-rome-
            > alea-jacta-est
            >
          • Paul Downey
            Dims ... Yup, I see no SOAP! ... unless you re mad enough to use Addressing and WSSec, apparently:
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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              Dims


              > Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :)
              > http://blog.chanezon.com/articles/2006/05/31/apache-abdera-and-rome-
              > alea-jacta-est
              >

              Yup, I see no SOAP!


              > Just look at the performance numbers for processing a huge feed that
              > they posted. Yes, adding soap headers won't slow us (Axis2) down :)
              >


              unless you're mad enough to use Addressing and WSSec, apparently:

              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/
              message/7316

              Sorry, when you remove databinding, and dismiss headers as being
              heavyweight, I wonder what I'm being asked to get excited about not
              being slow: <xsl:copy-of select="document()/soap:Envelope/soap:Body" /
              > ?

              Paul
            • Anil John
              Paul, SOAP is very much alive, and I agree with your point that when considering web services that are doing any type of real work, you cannot simply assume
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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                Paul,

                SOAP is very much alive, and I agree with your point that when
                considering web services that are doing any type of real work, you
                cannot simply assume away things like addressing and security.

                Having said that, there is also a tendency, especially from platform and
                toolkit builders, to assume that all of that expensive processing is
                going to be done at the endpoint; in the software.

                I would argue that, that particular view is... Limiting.

                I personally am a firm believer in separating, to the greatest extent
                possible, the business logic (the stuff that travels in the SOAP body)
                from the infrastructure functionality (the stuff that travels in the
                SOAP header). And current technology capabilities allow one to just
                this. As an example, security processing of SOAP messages (digital
                signatures, xml encryption/decryption etc.) is an expensive process that
                I would normally outsource to something like a hardware box like an XML
                Security Gateway which can do that processing at wire speed.

                Which to a great extent reinforces the view that one needs to look at
                performance engineering end to end and should seek to optimize where you
                can get the biggest bang for the buck. And that very well may not be at
                the SOAP layer, but in the business logic processing.

                And taking away databinding does not in any way shape or form take away
                from the usefulness of SOAP. I am coming more and more to the viewpoint
                that moving away from databinding allows one to focus on the core of
                what SOA and web services are about, the exchange of messages. And not
                the issues dealing with the "object-ification" of XML.

                Regards,

                - Anil

                :-
                :- Anil John
                :- http://www.aniltj.com/blog
                :-




                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Downey
                > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 8:49 AM
                > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] [ANN]JAX-WS 2.1 FCS released
                >
                > Dims
                >
                >
                > > Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :)
                > > http://blog.chanezon.com/articles/2006/05/31/apache-abdera-and-rome-
                > > alea-jacta-est
                > >
                >
                > Yup, I see no SOAP!
                >
                >
                > > Just look at the performance numbers for processing a huge feed that
                > > they posted. Yes, adding soap headers won't slow us (Axis2) down :)
                > >
                >
                >
                > unless you're mad enough to use Addressing and WSSec, apparently:
                >
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/
                > message/7316
                >
                > Sorry, when you remove databinding, and dismiss headers as being
                > heavyweight, I wonder what I'm being asked to get excited about not
                > being slow: <xsl:copy-of
                > select="document()/soap:Envelope/soap:Body" /
                > > ?
                >
                > Paul
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please
                > stay on-topic.
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Rahul
                I second that!!! Since there are so many messages on this subject and there are passionate views on both sides, maybe they can create a new yahoo group and
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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                  I second that!!! Since there are so many messages on this subject and there are passionate views on both sides, maybe they can create a new yahoo group and take this lively discussion offline.
                   
                  Thanks.
                   
                  Rahul

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Arjen Poutsma <apoutsma@...>
                  To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:23:34 AM
                  Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] [ANN]JAX-WS 2.1 FCS released

                  Please, can we stop the product plugging on this list? It's getting
                  rather pathetic.

                  Thanks,

                  Arjen

                  On 14-feb-2007, at 13:28, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

                  > Paul,
                  >
                  > Use AXIOM, See even the REST guys are using it :)
                  > http://blog. chanezon. com/articles/ 2006/05/31/ apache-abdera- and-rome-
                  > alea-jacta-est
                  >




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