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RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays

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  • Tom Jordahl
    Yup, at the top of my section: I attached the whole WSDL for reference. No plans to
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Yup, at the top of my <schema> section:
      <import namespace="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"/>

      I attached the whole WSDL for reference.

      No plans to switch Axis 1.x to wrapped/literal at this time, although the
      Axis2 effort is underway, which will support WSDL 2.0 and of course be all
      literal-y and stuff.

      Axis 1.2 is *way* better at literal than it used to be. We (Macromedia) are
      doing WS-I stuff and things are looking good with the latest Axis 1.2
      source.

      Anyway, any help you can give me on the .NET front is appreciated Kirill!

      --
      Tom Jordahl


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@...]
      > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:48 PM
      > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
      >
      >
      > Hi Tom,
      > Does your WSDL contain xsd:import for soap-encoding schema?
      >
      > While we're on the topic, any plans to change your default from encoded
      > to literal?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > >-----Original Message-----
      > >From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@...]
      > >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:13 AM
      > >To: 'soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com'
      > >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
      > still
      > >*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
      > >
      > >WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
      > them).
      > >So
      > >it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
      > is a
      > >legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
      > >
      > >But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
      > >
      > >--
      > >Tom Jordahl
      > >Macromedia Server Development
      > >
      > >> -----Original Message-----
      > >> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
      > >> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
      > >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
      > >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
      > always
      > >> been my understanding
      > >> that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
      > >>
      > >> Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
      > WS-I
      > >> Profiles:-)
      > >>
      > >> Cheers,
      > >>
      > >> Christopher Ferris
      > >> STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
      > >> email: chrisfer@...
      > >> blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
      > >> phone: +1 508 377 9295
      > >>
      > >> Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
      > >>
      > >> > Hello,
      > >> >
      > >> > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
      > >> reported
      > >> > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
      > >> > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
      > encoded
      > >> arrays.
      > >> >
      > >> > Our WSDL is this:
      > >> >
      > >> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
      > >> >
      > >> > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
      > >> > <complexContent>
      > >> > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
      > >> > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
      > >> wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
      > >> > </restriction>
      > >> > </complexContent>
      > >> > </complexType>
      > >> >
      > >> > For an operation that is simply:
      > >> > String[] echo(String[] in)
      > >> >
      > >> > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
      > >> types):
      > >> >
      > >> > <soap:Body
      > >> soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
      > >> > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
      > >> > <in href="#id1" />
      > >> > </q1:echo>
      > >> > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
      > >> > <Item>one</Item>
      > >> > <Item>two</Item>
      > >> > <Item>three</Item>
      > >> > </soapenc:Array>
      > >> > </soap:Body>
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > Axis 1.2 returns:
      > >> >
      > >> > <soapenv:Body>
      > >> > <ns1:echoResponse
      > >> > soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
      > >> > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
      > >> > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
      > >> > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
      > >> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
      > >> > <item>one</item>
      > >> > <item>two</item>
      > >> > <item>three</item>
      > >> > </echoReturn>
      > >> > </ns1:echoResponse>
      > >> > </soapenv:Body>
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > .NET reports an error:
      > >> > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
      > >error
      > >> in
      > >> > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
      > >> specified
      > >> > type was not recognized: name='string',
      > >> > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
      > <whoamiReturn
      > >> > xmlns=''>.
      > >> >
      > >> > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
      > 311)." -
      > >> this
      > >> > error is from our user who is using VB.
      > >> >
      > >> > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
      > the
      > >> SOAP
      > >> > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
      > this
      > >> shows
      > >> > up. :-}
      > >> >
      > >> > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
      > recognize
      > >> > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
      > implementation
      > >> doing
      > >> > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
      > >> >
      > >> > Thanks for any help/info.
      > >> >
      > >> > --
      > >> > Tom Jordahl
      > >> > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
      > >> > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
      > discuss
      > >> implementation and
      > >> > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> >
      > >> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > >> >
      > >> > ADVERTISEMENT
      > >> > [image removed]
      > >> >
      > >> > [image removed]
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
      > >> >
      > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >> > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >> >
      > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
      > >> This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
      > >> implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
      > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
      > >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----------------------------------------------------------------
      > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
      > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Eric Rajkovic
      Hi Kirill, I could not resist but ask the other question any plans to support literal, other than by pointing at r2d on gotdotnet ? Eric ... From: Kirill
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Kirill,

        I could not resist but ask the other question

        any plans to support literal, other than by pointing at r2d on gotdotnet ?

        Eric

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@...]
        Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:48 AM
        To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays


        Hi Tom,
        Does your WSDL contain xsd:import for soap-encoding schema?

        While we're on the topic, any plans to change your default from encoded to literal?

        Thanks

        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@...]
        >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:13 AM
        >To: 'soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com'
        >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
        >
        >
        >
        >Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
        still
        >*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
        >
        >WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
        them).
        >So
        >it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
        is a
        >legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
        >
        >But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
        >
        >--
        >Tom Jordahl
        >Macromedia Server Development
        >
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
        >> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
        >> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
        >>
        >>
        >> Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
        always
        >> been my understanding
        >> that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
        >>
        >> Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
        WS-I
        >> Profiles:-)
        >>
        >> Cheers,
        >>
        >> Christopher Ferris
        >> STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
        >> email: chrisfer@...
        >> blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
        >> phone: +1 508 377 9295
        >>
        >> Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
        >>
        >> > Hello,
        >> >
        >> > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
        >> reported
        >> > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
        >> > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
        encoded
        >> arrays.
        >> >
        >> > Our WSDL is this:
        >> >
        >> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
        >> >
        >> > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
        >> > <complexContent>
        >> > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
        >> > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
        >> wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
        >> > </restriction>
        >> > </complexContent>
        >> > </complexType>
        >> >
        >> > For an operation that is simply:
        >> > String[] echo(String[] in)
        >> >
        >> > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
        >> types):
        >> >
        >> > <soap:Body
        >> soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
        >> > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
        >> > <in href="#id1" />
        >> > </q1:echo>
        >> > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
        >> > <Item>one</Item>
        >> > <Item>two</Item>
        >> > <Item>three</Item>
        >> > </soapenc:Array>
        >> > </soap:Body>
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Axis 1.2 returns:
        >> >
        >> > <soapenv:Body>
        >> > <ns1:echoResponse
        >> > soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
        >> > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
        >> > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
        >> > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
        >> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
        >> > <item>one</item>
        >> > <item>two</item>
        >> > <item>three</item>
        >> > </echoReturn>
        >> > </ns1:echoResponse>
        >> > </soapenv:Body>
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > .NET reports an error:
        >> > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
        >error
        >> in
        >> > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
        >> specified
        >> > type was not recognized: name='string',
        >> > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
        <whoamiReturn
        >> > xmlns=''>.
        >> >
        >> > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
        311)." -
        >> this
        >> > error is from our user who is using VB.
        >> >
        >> > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
        the
        >> SOAP
        >> > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
        this
        >> shows
        >> > up. :-}
        >> >
        >> > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
        recognize
        >> > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
        implementation
        >> doing
        >> > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
        >> >
        >> > Thanks for any help/info.
        >> >
        >> > --
        >> > Tom Jordahl
        >> > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
        >> > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
        discuss
        >> implementation and
        >> > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
        >> >
        >>
        >> >
        >> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >> >
        >> > ADVERTISEMENT
        >> > [image removed]
        >> >
        >> > [image removed]
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
        >> >
        >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >> > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >> >
        >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
        >> This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
        >> implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >-----------------------------------------------------------------
        >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
        >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



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      • Kirill Gavrylyuk
        Hi Eric, you mean rpc/literal? Our current plan is to support rpc/literal in .Net 2.0 - it s available in 2.0 Beta1 released this summer. ... gotdotnet ? ...
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Eric,
          you mean rpc/literal?
          Our current plan is to support rpc/literal in .Net 2.0 - it's available
          in 2.0 Beta1 released this summer.

          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Eric Rajkovic [mailto:eric.rajkovic@...]
          >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:07 PM
          >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
          >
          >
          >Hi Kirill,
          >
          >I could not resist but ask the other question
          >
          >any plans to support literal, other than by pointing at r2d on
          gotdotnet ?
          >
          >Eric
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@...]
          >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:48 AM
          >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
          >
          >
          >Hi Tom,
          >Does your WSDL contain xsd:import for soap-encoding schema?
          >
          >While we're on the topic, any plans to change your default from encoded
          to
          >literal?
          >
          >Thanks
          >
          >>-----Original Message-----
          >>From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@...]
          >>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:13 AM
          >>To: 'soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com'
          >>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
          >still
          >>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
          >>
          >>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
          >them).
          >>So
          >>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
          >is a
          >>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
          >>
          >>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
          >>
          >>--
          >>Tom Jordahl
          >>Macromedia Server Development
          >>
          >>> -----Original Message-----
          >>> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
          >>> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
          >>> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
          >always
          >>> been my understanding
          >>> that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
          >>>
          >>> Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
          >WS-I
          >>> Profiles:-)
          >>>
          >>> Cheers,
          >>>
          >>> Christopher Ferris
          >>> STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
          >>> email: chrisfer@...
          >>> blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
          >>> phone: +1 508 377 9295
          >>>
          >>> Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
          >>>
          >>> > Hello,
          >>> >
          >>> > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
          >>> reported
          >>> > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
          >>> > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
          >encoded
          >>> arrays.
          >>> >
          >>> > Our WSDL is this:
          >>> >
          >>> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
          >>> >
          >>> > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
          >>> > <complexContent>
          >>> > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
          >>> > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
          >>> wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
          >>> > </restriction>
          >>> > </complexContent>
          >>> > </complexType>
          >>> >
          >>> > For an operation that is simply:
          >>> > String[] echo(String[] in)
          >>> >
          >>> > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
          >>> types):
          >>> >
          >>> > <soap:Body
          >>> soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
          >>> > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
          >>> > <in href="#id1" />
          >>> > </q1:echo>
          >>> > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
          >>> > <Item>one</Item>
          >>> > <Item>two</Item>
          >>> > <Item>three</Item>
          >>> > </soapenc:Array>
          >>> > </soap:Body>
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> > Axis 1.2 returns:
          >>> >
          >>> > <soapenv:Body>
          >>> > <ns1:echoResponse
          >>> >
          soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
          >>> > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
          >>> > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
          >>> > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
          >>> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
          >>> > <item>one</item>
          >>> > <item>two</item>
          >>> > <item>three</item>
          >>> > </echoReturn>
          >>> > </ns1:echoResponse>
          >>> > </soapenv:Body>
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> > .NET reports an error:
          >>> > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
          >>error
          >>> in
          >>> > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
          >>> specified
          >>> > type was not recognized: name='string',
          >>> > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
          ><whoamiReturn
          >>> > xmlns=''>.
          >>> >
          >>> > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
          >311)." -
          >>> this
          >>> > error is from our user who is using VB.
          >>> >
          >>> > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
          >the
          >>> SOAP
          >>> > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
          >this
          >>> shows
          >>> > up. :-}
          >>> >
          >>> > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
          >recognize
          >>> > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
          >implementation
          >>> doing
          >>> > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded
          types?
          >>> >
          >>> > Thanks for any help/info.
          >>> >
          >>> > --
          >>> > Tom Jordahl
          >>> > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
          >>> > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
          >discuss
          >>> implementation and
          >>> > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          >>> >
          >>>
          >>> >
          >>> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >>> >
          >>> > ADVERTISEMENT
          >>> > [image removed]
          >>> >
          >>> > [image removed]
          >>> >
          >>> >
          >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
          >>> >
          >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >>> > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >>> >
          >>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          >Service.
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
          >>> This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
          discuss
          >>> implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
          >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
          >>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >-----------------------------------------------------------------
          >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
          >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >-----------------------------------------------------------------
          >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
          >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Eric Rajkovic
          Yes, it s what I meant. Thanks Eric ... From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@microsoft.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:16 PM To:
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, it's what I meant.

            Thanks
            Eric

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@...]
            Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:16 PM
            To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays


            Hi Eric,
            you mean rpc/literal?
            Our current plan is to support rpc/literal in .Net 2.0 - it's available in 2.0 Beta1 released this summer.

            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Eric Rajkovic [mailto:eric.rajkovic@...]
            >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:07 PM
            >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
            >
            >
            >Hi Kirill,
            >
            >I could not resist but ask the other question
            >
            >any plans to support literal, other than by pointing at r2d on
            gotdotnet ?
            >
            >Eric
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Kirill Gavrylyuk [mailto:kirillg@...]
            >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:48 AM
            >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
            >
            >
            >Hi Tom,
            >Does your WSDL contain xsd:import for soap-encoding schema?
            >
            >While we're on the topic, any plans to change your default from encoded
            to
            >literal?
            >
            >Thanks
            >
            >>-----Original Message-----
            >>From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@...]
            >>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:13 AM
            >>To: 'soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com'
            >>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
            >still
            >>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
            >>
            >>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
            >them).
            >>So
            >>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
            >is a
            >>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
            >>
            >>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
            >>
            >>--
            >>Tom Jordahl
            >>Macromedia Server Development
            >>
            >>> -----Original Message-----
            >>> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
            >>> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
            >>> To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            >>> Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
            >always
            >>> been my understanding
            >>> that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
            >>>
            >>> Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
            >WS-I
            >>> Profiles:-)
            >>>
            >>> Cheers,
            >>>
            >>> Christopher Ferris
            >>> STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
            >>> email: chrisfer@...
            >>> blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
            >>> phone: +1 508 377 9295
            >>>
            >>> Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
            >>>
            >>> > Hello,
            >>> >
            >>> > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
            >>> reported
            >>> > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
            >>> > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
            >encoded
            >>> arrays.
            >>> >
            >>> > Our WSDL is this:
            >>> >
            >>> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
            >>> >
            >>> > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
            >>> > <complexContent>
            >>> > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
            >>> > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
            >>> wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
            >>> > </restriction>
            >>> > </complexContent>
            >>> > </complexType>
            >>> >
            >>> > For an operation that is simply:
            >>> > String[] echo(String[] in)
            >>> >
            >>> > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
            >>> types):
            >>> >
            >>> > <soap:Body
            >>> soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
            >>> > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
            >>> > <in href="#id1" />
            >>> > </q1:echo>
            >>> > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
            >>> > <Item>one</Item>
            >>> > <Item>two</Item>
            >>> > <Item>three</Item>
            >>> > </soapenc:Array>
            >>> > </soap:Body>
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> > Axis 1.2 returns:
            >>> >
            >>> > <soapenv:Body>
            >>> > <ns1:echoResponse
            >>> >
            soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
            >>> > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
            >>> > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
            >>> > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
            >>> > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
            >>> > <item>one</item>
            >>> > <item>two</item>
            >>> > <item>three</item>
            >>> > </echoReturn>
            >>> > </ns1:echoResponse>
            >>> > </soapenv:Body>
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> > .NET reports an error:
            >>> > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
            >>error
            >>> in
            >>> > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
            >>> specified
            >>> > type was not recognized: name='string',
            >>> > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
            ><whoamiReturn
            >>> > xmlns=''>.
            >>> >
            >>> > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
            >311)." -
            >>> this
            >>> > error is from our user who is using VB.
            >>> >
            >>> > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
            >the
            >>> SOAP
            >>> > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
            >this
            >>> shows
            >>> > up. :-}
            >>> >
            >>> > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
            >recognize
            >>> > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
            >implementation
            >>> doing
            >>> > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded
            types?
            >>> >
            >>> > Thanks for any help/info.
            >>> >
            >>> > --
            >>> > Tom Jordahl
            >>> > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
            >>> > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
            >discuss
            >>> implementation and
            >>> > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            >>> >
            >>>
            >>> >
            >>> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >>> >
            >>> > ADVERTISEMENT
            >>> > [image removed]
            >>> >
            >>> > [image removed]
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            >>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
            >>> >
            >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >>> > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >>> >
            >>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            >Service.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
            >>> This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
            discuss
            >>> implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
            >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
            >>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            >>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >-----------------------------------------------------------------
            >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
            >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >-----------------------------------------------------------------
            >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
            >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



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            This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Christopher B Ferris
            Tom, Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the bane of interoperability in Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Tom,

              Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the
              bane of interoperability in
              Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require support
              for SOAP encoding:

              http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512

              "Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
              encouraged but
              not required; other data models and encodings can be used in conjunction
              with
              SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "

              Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.

              Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the default (and
              that should be
              changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you need to
              be using rpc-literal
              or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that WSDL
              should be
              WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.

              Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd have to
              code the C# by hand.
              If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal wrappered
              is the way to go unless
              you are a glutton for punishment.

              WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set the bar
              for
              interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP at
              this point.
              While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source project)
              from supporting
              features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have interoperability
              as a
              non-functional requirement for their service should not be using those
              features (e.g.
              SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
              Profiles,
              then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
              platform/tooling.

              Cheers,

              Christopher Ferris
              STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
              email: chrisfer@...
              blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
              phone: +1 508 377 9295

              Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:

              >
              > Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
              still
              > *many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
              >
              > WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use them).
              So
              > it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
              is a
              > legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
              >
              > But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
              >
              > --
              > Tom Jordahl
              > Macromedia Server Development
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
              > > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
              > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
              > >
              > >
              > > Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
              always
              > > been my understanding
              > > that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
              > >
              > > Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
              WS-I
              > > Profiles:-)
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > >
              > > Christopher Ferris
              > > STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
              > > email: chrisfer@...
              > > blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
              > > phone: +1 508 377 9295
              > >
              > > Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
              > >
              > > > Hello,
              > > >
              > > > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
              > > reported
              > > > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
              > > > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP encoded
              > > arrays.
              > > >
              > > > Our WSDL is this:
              > > >
              > > > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
              > > >
              > > > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
              > > > <complexContent>
              > > > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
              > > > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
              > > wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
              > > > </restriction>
              > > > </complexContent>
              > > > </complexType>
              > > >
              > > > For an operation that is simply:
              > > > String[] echo(String[] in)
              > > >
              > > > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
              > > types):
              > > >
              > > > <soap:Body
              > > soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
              > > > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
              > > > <in href="#id1" />
              > > > </q1:echo>
              > > > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
              > > > <Item>one</Item>
              > > > <Item>two</Item>
              > > > <Item>three</Item>
              > > > </soapenc:Array>
              > > > </soap:Body>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Axis 1.2 returns:
              > > >
              > > > <soapenv:Body>
              > > > <ns1:echoResponse
              > > > soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
              > > > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
              > > > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
              > > > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
              > > > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
              > > > <item>one</item>
              > > > <item>two</item>
              > > > <item>three</item>
              > > > </echoReturn>
              > > > </ns1:echoResponse>
              > > > </soapenv:Body>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > .NET reports an error:
              > > > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
              error
              > > in
              > > > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
              > > specified
              > > > type was not recognized: name='string',
              > > > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
              <whoamiReturn
              > > > xmlns=''>.
              > > >
              > > > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1, 311)."
              -
              > > this
              > > > error is from our user who is using VB.
              > > >
              > > > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
              the
              > > SOAP
              > > > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them, this
              > > shows
              > > > up. :-}
              > > >
              > > > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
              recognize
              > > > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other implementation
              > > doing
              > > > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for any help/info.
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Tom Jordahl
              > > > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
              discuss
              > > implementation and
              > > > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
              > > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > >
              > > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > > > [image removed]
              > > >
              > > > [image removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
              > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
              > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----------------------------------------------------------------
              > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
              implementation and
              > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
              >

              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
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              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Anish Karmarkar
              ... +1, especially to your comments about WS-I BP, and soap-encoding. IMHO, Web services should be document oriented/focused, but I do have a question about
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Christopher B Ferris wrote:
                > Tom,
                >
                > Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the
                > bane of interoperability in
                > Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require support
                > for SOAP encoding:
                >
                > http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                >
                > "Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                > encouraged but
                > not required; other data models and encodings can be used in conjunction
                > with
                > SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                >
                > Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                >
                > Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the default (and
                > that should be
                > changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you need to
                > be using rpc-literal
                > or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that WSDL
                > should be
                > WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                >
                > Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd have to
                > code the C# by hand.
                > If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal wrappered
                > is the way to go unless
                > you are a glutton for punishment.
                >

                +1, especially to your comments about WS-I BP, and soap-encoding.
                IMHO, Web services should be document oriented/focused, but I do have a
                question about doc-literal wrapped : what is the difference between
                rpc-literal and doc-literal wrapped? Other than the obvious fact that
                wrapped is declared as "document" style and not "rpc" style in WSDL.
                AFAICT, from an implementation perspective as well as messages on the
                wire, rpc-lit and doc-lit wrapped are exactly the same thing.

                -Anish
                --
              • Glen Daniels
                Hi Chris, all: ... Oy. I m sorry, but I ve heard this too many times now. The fact is that RPC/enc interop was working with tons of toolkits LONG before the
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Chris, all:

                  Christopher B Ferris wrote:
                  > Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the
                  > bane of interoperability in
                  > Web services.

                  Oy. I'm sorry, but I've heard this too many times now.

                  The fact is that RPC/enc interop was working with tons of toolkits LONG
                  before the BP was even finished, and in fact before WS-I was even
                  formed. Doesn't anyone remember all the activity around, oh, (he says
                  glancing at the "to" line) Soapbuilders?

                  http://www.xmethods.net/ilab/
                  http://www.whitemesa.com/interop.htm
                  http://www.whitemesa.com/r3/interop3.html
                  http://www.whitemesa.net/r4/interop4.html

                  If you'll recall, *doc/lit* interop was in fact vastly harder to
                  achieve, and many toolkits for scripting languages like PERL and Python
                  still don't support it very well if at all, although their RPC/enc
                  behavior is impeccable.

                  I'm not going to say that literal (including rpc/lit, because some of us
                  still think that RPC-style interactions *are* actually important in many
                  cases, even if we also think document-passing is the way to go) isn't a
                  fine way to move forward, but neither am I going to be silent while
                  people claim that there was so much trouble getting RPC interop working,
                  when in fact this very group was instrumental in doing just that well
                  before doc/lit became the gold standard. The anti-RPC backlash was
                  about politics, FUD, and the fact that certain companies baked doc/lit
                  (and "pseudo-rpc" wrapped mode) into their widely distributed toolkits
                  as the default, much more than it was about technology or interop problems.

                  > Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require support
                  > for SOAP encoding:
                  >
                  > http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                  >
                  > "Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                  > encouraged but
                  > not required; other data models and encodings can be used in conjunction
                  > with
                  > SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                  >
                  > Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.

                  This is absolutely true. However, if it is going to support its use at
                  all (which it currently does), it should do it correctly and completely,
                  which means supporting the soapenc types as well as multiref encoding.

                  Cheers,
                  --Glen
                • Tom Jordahl
                  Chris, This isn t the forum for this. I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now. The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Chris,

                    This isn't the forum for this.

                    I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now.

                    <rant>
                    The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is just bullsh*t.
                    Something I get real tired of hearing from people with an agenda to push
                    (WS-I for instance). This group *in particular* was created to insure the
                    implementations could interoperate, and it succeeded in this respect several
                    years ago. WITH ENCODING. We were getting the job DONE.

                    Then WS-I came along and said (surprise!) that the Microsoft way of doing
                    things (literal) was much more interoperable. Wow. Really? It seemed to
                    me, working on a real implementation (Axis 1.0), that *my* problems with
                    interop didn't stem from encoding, but supporting the *broken* encoding in
                    .NET (hey look, no 2D array support!). And having to invent things like
                    'wrapped' mode to reverse engineer what MS had done with their literal
                    stuff. And having to rework the whole f**king engine because the Axis
                    architects decided to support the SOAP 1.1 encoding, just like the SOAP
                    specification SAID, and the world changed its mind.

                    Look, I am not going to bash MS, because I am asking them for their help.
                    The fact of the matter is, they have customers and I have customers that
                    need to get *real work* done. My tool kit uses rpc/encoded, they need to
                    interoperate with that. Bottom line. If they have bugs consuming my
                    rpc/encoded services, as are published today, they need to fix them. If I
                    have bugs consuming their doc/lit services, I need to fix them too.

                    With reasoned arguments from people like Tim Ewald and others (mostly from
                    MS) I have had my Come-To-Jesus moment and realized that XML Schema is good.
                    Literal web services are good. Having the rpc/encoded vs. doc/lit wars is
                    BAD. Why were we given a choice in WSDL 1.1? That was bad. I have been
                    working on the WSDL 2.0 working group for years, and you will notice that we
                    learned from the mistakes. XML Schema is the one-true-way.

                    But in the mean time, rpc/encoding exists and works and every major toolkit
                    supports it. Customers need it to work. You can't dismiss my request for
                    help on this forum with "Use WS-I", that goes directly against the spirit in
                    which this group was formed.
                    </rant>

                    I apologize for my rant to those implementers out there that might actually
                    be able to give me some info about .NET and soap encoded arrays.

                    Thanks.

                    --
                    Tom Jordahl
                    Initial Axis implementer and committer
                    WSDL 2.0 Working Group member
                    WS-I representative for Macromedia
                    ColdFusion Architect


                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                    > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:22 PM
                    > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                    >
                    >
                    > Tom,
                    >
                    > Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the
                    > bane of interoperability in
                    > Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require support
                    > for SOAP encoding:
                    >
                    > http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                    >
                    > "Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                    > encouraged but
                    > not required; other data models and encodings can be used in conjunction
                    > with
                    > SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                    >
                    > Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                    >
                    > Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the default (and
                    > that should be
                    > changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you need to
                    > be using rpc-literal
                    > or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that WSDL
                    > should be
                    > WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                    >
                    > Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd have to
                    > code the C# by hand.
                    > If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal wrappered
                    > is the way to go unless
                    > you are a glutton for punishment.
                    >
                    > WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set the bar
                    > for
                    > interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP at
                    > this point.
                    > While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source project)
                    > from supporting
                    > features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have interoperability
                    > as a
                    > non-functional requirement for their service should not be using those
                    > features (e.g.
                    > SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
                    > Profiles,
                    > then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
                    > platform/tooling.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Christopher Ferris
                    > STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                    > email: chrisfer@...
                    > blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                    > phone: +1 508 377 9295
                    >
                    > Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
                    > still
                    > > *many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
                    > >
                    > > WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use them).
                    > So
                    > > it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
                    > is a
                    > > legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
                    > >
                    > > But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Tom Jordahl
                    > > Macromedia Server Development
                    > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                    > > > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
                    > > > To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
                    > always
                    > > > been my understanding
                    > > > that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
                    > WS-I
                    > > > Profiles:-)
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers,
                    > > >
                    > > > Christopher Ferris
                    > > > STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                    > > > email: chrisfer@...
                    > > > blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                    > > > phone: +1 508 377 9295
                    > > >
                    > > > Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
                    > > >
                    > > > > Hello,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
                    > > > reported
                    > > > > some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
                    > > > > understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP encoded
                    > > > arrays.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Our WSDL is this:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                    > > > >
                    > > > > <complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
                    > > > > <complexContent>
                    > > > > <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
                    > > > > <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
                    > > > wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
                    > > > > </restriction>
                    > > > > </complexContent>
                    > > > > </complexType>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > For an operation that is simply:
                    > > > > String[] echo(String[] in)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > .NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
                    > > > types):
                    > > > >
                    > > > > <soap:Body
                    > > > soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                    > > > > <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                    > > > > <in href="#id1" />
                    > > > > </q1:echo>
                    > > > > <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
                    > > > > <Item>one</Item>
                    > > > > <Item>two</Item>
                    > > > > <Item>three</Item>
                    > > > > </soapenc:Array>
                    > > > > </soap:Body>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Axis 1.2 returns:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > <soapenv:Body>
                    > > > > <ns1:echoResponse
                    > > > > soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
                    > > > > xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                    > > > > <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
                    > > > > xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
                    > > > > xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                    > > > > <item>one</item>
                    > > > > <item>two</item>
                    > > > > <item>three</item>
                    > > > > </echoReturn>
                    > > > > </ns1:echoResponse>
                    > > > > </soapenv:Body>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > .NET reports an error:
                    > > > > Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
                    > error
                    > > > in
                    > > > > XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
                    > > > specified
                    > > > > type was not recognized: name='string',
                    > > > > namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
                    > <whoamiReturn
                    > > > > xmlns=''>.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1, 311)."
                    > -
                    > > > this
                    > > > > error is from our user who is using VB.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
                    > the
                    > > > SOAP
                    > > > > encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them, this
                    > > > shows
                    > > > > up. :-}
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
                    > recognize
                    > > > > these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other implementation
                    > > > doing
                    > > > > (particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks for any help/info.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --
                    > > > > Tom Jordahl
                    > > > > Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                    > discuss
                    > > > implementation and
                    > > > > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > > > > [image removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [image removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                    > > > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                    > implementation and
                    > > interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > >
                    > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > > [image removed]
                    > >
                    > > [image removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                    > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                    > implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Wes Moulder
                    Tom, Don t use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as the array mechanism, but use xsd types underneath the covers. This is what we did
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Tom,
                      Don't use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as
                      the array mechanism, but
                      use xsd types underneath the covers. This is what we did back in the
                      day with all the interop testing
                      we were doing.
                      Not all toolkits support those types, but all will behave for the xsd
                      types. The soapenc types were
                      created to allow for the common attributes to appear on the xsd types
                      when attempting to schema
                      validate a soap encoded message. The root of the problem here, though,
                      is attempting to schema
                      validate a soap encoded message.

                      --Wes
                      Still waiting for his autographed Bible from the Come-to-Jesus XML
                      sessions...

                      Tom Jordahl wrote:

                      >Chris,
                      >
                      >This isn't the forum for this.
                      >
                      >I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now.
                      >
                      ><rant>
                      >The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is just bullsh*t.
                      >Something I get real tired of hearing from people with an agenda to push
                      >(WS-I for instance). This group *in particular* was created to insure the
                      >implementations could interoperate, and it succeeded in this respect several
                      >years ago. WITH ENCODING. We were getting the job DONE.
                      >
                      >Then WS-I came along and said (surprise!) that the Microsoft way of doing
                      >things (literal) was much more interoperable. Wow. Really? It seemed to
                      >me, working on a real implementation (Axis 1.0), that *my* problems with
                      >interop didn't stem from encoding, but supporting the *broken* encoding in
                      >.NET (hey look, no 2D array support!). And having to invent things like
                      >'wrapped' mode to reverse engineer what MS had done with their literal
                      >stuff. And having to rework the whole f**king engine because the Axis
                      >architects decided to support the SOAP 1.1 encoding, just like the SOAP
                      >specification SAID, and the world changed its mind.
                      >
                      >Look, I am not going to bash MS, because I am asking them for their help.
                      >The fact of the matter is, they have customers and I have customers that
                      >need to get *real work* done. My tool kit uses rpc/encoded, they need to
                      >interoperate with that. Bottom line. If they have bugs consuming my
                      >rpc/encoded services, as are published today, they need to fix them. If I
                      >have bugs consuming their doc/lit services, I need to fix them too.
                      >
                      >With reasoned arguments from people like Tim Ewald and others (mostly from
                      >MS) I have had my Come-To-Jesus moment and realized that XML Schema is good.
                      >Literal web services are good. Having the rpc/encoded vs. doc/lit wars is
                      >BAD. Why were we given a choice in WSDL 1.1? That was bad. I have been
                      >working on the WSDL 2.0 working group for years, and you will notice that we
                      >learned from the mistakes. XML Schema is the one-true-way.
                      >
                      >But in the mean time, rpc/encoding exists and works and every major toolkit
                      >supports it. Customers need it to work. You can't dismiss my request for
                      >help on this forum with "Use WS-I", that goes directly against the spirit in
                      >which this group was formed.
                      ></rant>
                      >
                      >I apologize for my rant to those implementers out there that might actually
                      >be able to give me some info about .NET and soap encoded arrays.
                      >
                      >Thanks.
                      >
                      >--
                      >Tom Jordahl
                      >Initial Axis implementer and committer
                      >WSDL 2.0 Working Group member
                      >WS-I representative for Macromedia
                      >ColdFusion Architect
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>-----Original Message-----
                      >>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                      >>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:22 PM
                      >>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      >>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>Tom,
                      >>
                      >>Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding is the
                      >>bane of interoperability in
                      >>Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require support
                      >>for SOAP encoding:
                      >>
                      >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                      >>
                      >>"Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                      >>encouraged but
                      >>not required; other data models and encodings can be used in conjunction
                      >>with
                      >>SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                      >>
                      >>Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                      >>
                      >>Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the default (and
                      >>that should be
                      >>changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you need to
                      >>be using rpc-literal
                      >>or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that WSDL
                      >>should be
                      >>WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                      >>
                      >>Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd have to
                      >>code the C# by hand.
                      >>If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal wrappered
                      >>is the way to go unless
                      >>you are a glutton for punishment.
                      >>
                      >>WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set the bar
                      >>for
                      >>interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP at
                      >>this point.
                      >>While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source project)
                      >>from supporting
                      >>features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have interoperability
                      >>as a
                      >>non-functional requirement for their service should not be using those
                      >>features (e.g.
                      >>SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
                      >>Profiles,
                      >>then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
                      >>platform/tooling.
                      >>
                      >>Cheers,
                      >>
                      >>Christopher Ferris
                      >>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                      >>email: chrisfer@...
                      >>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                      >>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                      >>
                      >>Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>still
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
                      >>>
                      >>>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use them).
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >> So
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I think
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>is a
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
                      >>>
                      >>>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
                      >>>
                      >>>--
                      >>>Tom Jordahl
                      >>>Macromedia Server Development
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>>-----Original Message-----
                      >>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                      >>>>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
                      >>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>always
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>been my understanding
                      >>>>that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>WS-I
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>Profiles:-)
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Cheers,
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Christopher Ferris
                      >>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                      >>>>email: chrisfer@...
                      >>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                      >>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>Hello,
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>reported
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
                      >>>>>understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP encoded
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>arrays.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>Our WSDL is this:
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>><complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
                      >>>>> <complexContent>
                      >>>>> <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
                      >>>>> <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>> </restriction>
                      >>>>> </complexContent>
                      >>>>></complexType>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>For an operation that is simply:
                      >>>>> String[] echo(String[] in)
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>.NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>types):
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>><soap:Body
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>> <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                      >>>>> <in href="#id1" />
                      >>>>> </q1:echo>
                      >>>>> <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
                      >>>>> <Item>one</Item>
                      >>>>> <Item>two</Item>
                      >>>>> <Item>three</Item>
                      >>>>> </soapenc:Array>
                      >>>>></soap:Body>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Axis 1.2 returns:
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>><soapenv:Body>
                      >>>>> <ns1:echoResponse
                      >>>>> soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
                      >>>>> xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                      >>>>> <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
                      >>>>> xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
                      >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                      >>>>> <item>one</item>
                      >>>>> <item>two</item>
                      >>>>> <item>three</item>
                      >>>>> </echoReturn>
                      >>>>> </ns1:echoResponse>
                      >>>>></soapenv:Body>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>.NET reports an error:
                      >>>>>Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>error
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>in
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>specified
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>type was not recognized: name='string',
                      >>>>>namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >><whoamiReturn
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>>xmlns=''>.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1, 311)."
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>-
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>this
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>error is from our user who is using VB.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>the
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>SOAP
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them, this
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>shows
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>up. :-}
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>recognize
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>>these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other implementation
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>doing
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>(particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Thanks for any help/info.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>--
                      >>>>>Tom Jordahl
                      >>>>>Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>discuss
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>implementation and
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>ADVERTISEMENT
                      >>>>>[image removed]
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>[image removed]
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >>>>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                      >>>>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                      >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>implementation and
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >>>
                      >>>ADVERTISEMENT
                      >>>[image removed]
                      >>>
                      >>>[image removed]
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                      >>>
                      >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>
                      >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                      >>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Kirill Gavrylyuk
                      ... +1. We use SOAP Encoding for encoding and XSD schema for types description. We do not use the SOAP Encoding types to describe the actual data type in WSDL
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 17, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >Don't use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as
                        >the array mechanism, but
                        >use xsd types underneath the covers.

                        +1.

                        We use SOAP Encoding for encoding and XSD schema for types description.
                        We do not use the SOAP Encoding types to describe the actual data type
                        in WSDL and in xsi:type. I think this is also the intent of the WSDL
                        1.1, and that's what we tested interop on couple years ago.
                        From WSDL 1.1: http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl#_types

                        ....Don't include attributes or elements that are peculiar to the wire
                        encoding (e.g. have nothing to do with the abstract content of the
                        message)...

                        Therefore we map Array declaration in WSDL to the programming model
                        independently of the encoding.

                        Now, when we see soapenc:string our proxy generation tool wsdl.exe makes
                        certain optimization and also maps it to the array of strings.

                        From there on we expect to xsd:string to be the type of the array
                        elements.

                        You can change the .Net proxy to use the following type instead of
                        string, but then you have all the SOAP Encoding attributes in your
                        programming model, which was hardly your intent.

                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlTypeAttribute(Namespace="http://schemas.xml
                        soap.org/soap/encoding/")]
                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlRootAttribute(Namespace="http://schemas.xml
                        soap.org/soap/encoding/", IsNullable=false)]
                        public class @string
                        {
                        public @string(string a) { Value = a;}

                        /// <remarks/>
                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlAttributeAttribute(DataType="ID")]
                        public string id;

                        /// <remarks/>

                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlAttributeAttribute(DataType="anyURI")]
                        public string href;

                        /// <remarks/>
                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlAnyAttributeAttribute()]
                        public System.Xml.XmlAttribute[] AnyAttr;

                        /// <remarks/>
                        [System.Xml.Serialization.XmlTextAttribute()]
                        public string Value;
                        }


                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: Wes Moulder [mailto:wes@...]
                        >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:33 PM
                        >To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                        >
                        >
                        >Tom,
                        >Don't use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as
                        >the array mechanism, but
                        >use xsd types underneath the covers. This is what we did back in the
                        >day with all the interop testing
                        >we were doing.
                        >Not all toolkits support those types, but all will behave for the xsd
                        >types. The soapenc types were
                        >created to allow for the common attributes to appear on the xsd types
                        >when attempting to schema
                        >validate a soap encoded message. The root of the problem here, though,
                        >is attempting to schema
                        >validate a soap encoded message.
                        >
                        >--Wes
                        >Still waiting for his autographed Bible from the Come-to-Jesus XML
                        >sessions...
                        >
                        >Tom Jordahl wrote:
                        >
                        >>Chris,
                        >>
                        >>This isn't the forum for this.
                        >>
                        >>I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now.
                        >>
                        >><rant>
                        >>The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is just bullsh*t.
                        >>Something I get real tired of hearing from people with an agenda to
                        push
                        >>(WS-I for instance). This group *in particular* was created to insure
                        the
                        >>implementations could interoperate, and it succeeded in this respect
                        >several
                        >>years ago. WITH ENCODING. We were getting the job DONE.
                        >>
                        >>Then WS-I came along and said (surprise!) that the Microsoft way of
                        doing
                        >>things (literal) was much more interoperable. Wow. Really? It
                        seemed to
                        >>me, working on a real implementation (Axis 1.0), that *my* problems
                        with
                        >>interop didn't stem from encoding, but supporting the *broken*
                        encoding in
                        >>.NET (hey look, no 2D array support!). And having to invent things
                        like
                        >>'wrapped' mode to reverse engineer what MS had done with their literal
                        >>stuff. And having to rework the whole f**king engine because the Axis
                        >>architects decided to support the SOAP 1.1 encoding, just like the
                        SOAP
                        >>specification SAID, and the world changed its mind.
                        >>
                        >>Look, I am not going to bash MS, because I am asking them for their
                        help.
                        >>The fact of the matter is, they have customers and I have customers
                        that
                        >>need to get *real work* done. My tool kit uses rpc/encoded, they need
                        to
                        >>interoperate with that. Bottom line. If they have bugs consuming my
                        >>rpc/encoded services, as are published today, they need to fix them.
                        If I
                        >>have bugs consuming their doc/lit services, I need to fix them too.
                        >>
                        >>With reasoned arguments from people like Tim Ewald and others (mostly
                        from
                        >>MS) I have had my Come-To-Jesus moment and realized that XML Schema is
                        >good.
                        >>Literal web services are good. Having the rpc/encoded vs. doc/lit
                        wars is
                        >>BAD. Why were we given a choice in WSDL 1.1? That was bad. I have
                        been
                        >>working on the WSDL 2.0 working group for years, and you will notice
                        that
                        >we
                        >>learned from the mistakes. XML Schema is the one-true-way.
                        >>
                        >>But in the mean time, rpc/encoding exists and works and every major
                        >toolkit
                        >>supports it. Customers need it to work. You can't dismiss my request
                        for
                        >>help on this forum with "Use WS-I", that goes directly against the
                        spirit
                        >in
                        >>which this group was formed.
                        >></rant>
                        >>
                        >>I apologize for my rant to those implementers out there that might
                        >actually
                        >>be able to give me some info about .NET and soap encoded arrays.
                        >>
                        >>Thanks.
                        >>
                        >>--
                        >>Tom Jordahl
                        >>Initial Axis implementer and committer
                        >>WSDL 2.0 Working Group member
                        >>WS-I representative for Macromedia
                        >>ColdFusion Architect
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>-----Original Message-----
                        >>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                        >>>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:22 PM
                        >>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>Tom,
                        >>>
                        >>>Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP encoding
                        is
                        >the
                        >>>bane of interoperability in
                        >>>Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require
                        >support
                        >>>for SOAP encoding:
                        >>>
                        >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                        >>>
                        >>>"Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section
                        is
                        >>>encouraged but
                        >>>not required; other data models and encodings can be used in
                        conjunction
                        >>>with
                        >>>SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                        >>>
                        >>>Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                        >>>
                        >>>Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the default
                        (and
                        >>>that should be
                        >>>changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you need
                        to
                        >>>be using rpc-literal
                        >>>or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that
                        WSDL
                        >>>should be
                        >>>WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                        >>>
                        >>>Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd
                        have
                        >to
                        >>>code the C# by hand.
                        >>>If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal
                        wrappered
                        >>>is the way to go unless
                        >>>you are a glutton for punishment.
                        >>>
                        >>>WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set
                        the
                        >bar
                        >>>for
                        >>>interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP
                        at
                        >>>this point.
                        >>>While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source
                        project)
                        >>>from supporting
                        >>>features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have
                        interoperability
                        >>>as a
                        >>>non-functional requirement for their service should not be using
                        those
                        >>>features (e.g.
                        >>>SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
                        >>>Profiles,
                        >>>then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
                        >>>platform/tooling.
                        >>>
                        >>>Cheers,
                        >>>
                        >>>Christopher Ferris
                        >>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                        >>>email: chrisfer@...
                        >>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                        >>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                        >>>
                        >>>Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>still
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
                        them).
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>> So
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I
                        think
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>is a
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
                        >>>>
                        >>>>--
                        >>>>Tom Jordahl
                        >>>>Macromedia Server Development
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                        >>>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@...]
                        >>>>>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
                        >>>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>always
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>been my understanding
                        >>>>>that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>WS-I
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>Profiles:-)
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Cheers,
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Christopher Ferris
                        >>>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                        >>>>>email: chrisfer@...
                        >>>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                        >>>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Tom Jordahl <tomj@...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>Hello,
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>reported
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
                        >>>>>>understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
                        encoded
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>arrays.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>Our WSDL is this:
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>><complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
                        >>>>>> <complexContent>
                        >>>>>> <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
                        >>>>>> <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>> </restriction>
                        >>>>>> </complexContent>
                        >>>>>></complexType>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>For an operation that is simply:
                        >>>>>> String[] echo(String[] in)
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>.NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>types):
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>><soap:Body
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>> <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                        >>>>>> <in href="#id1" />
                        >>>>>> </q1:echo>
                        >>>>>> <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
                        >>>>>> <Item>one</Item>
                        >>>>>> <Item>two</Item>
                        >>>>>> <Item>three</Item>
                        >>>>>> </soapenc:Array>
                        >>>>>></soap:Body>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Axis 1.2 returns:
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>><soapenv:Body>
                        >>>>>> <ns1:echoResponse
                        >>>>>>
                        soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
                        >>>>>> xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                        >>>>>> <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
                        >>>>>> xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
                        >>>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                        >>>>>> <item>one</item>
                        >>>>>> <item>two</item>
                        >>>>>> <item>three</item>
                        >>>>>> </echoReturn>
                        >>>>>> </ns1:echoResponse>
                        >>>>>></soapenv:Body>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>.NET reports an error:
                        >>>>>>Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>error
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>in
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>specified
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>type was not recognized: name='string',
                        >>>>>>namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>><whoamiReturn
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>>xmlns=''>.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
                        311)."
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>-
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>this
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>error is from our user who is using VB.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>the
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>SOAP
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
                        this
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>shows
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>up. :-}
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>recognize
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>>these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
                        implementation
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>doing
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>(particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded
                        types?
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Thanks for any help/info.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>--
                        >>>>>>Tom Jordahl
                        >>>>>>Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>discuss
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>>implementation and
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>ADVERTISEMENT
                        >>>>>>[image removed]
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>[image removed]
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        >>>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >>>>>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                        discuss
                        >>>>>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                        discuss
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>implementation and
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >>>>
                        >>>>ADVERTISEMENT
                        >>>>[image removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>>[image removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                        >>>>
                        >>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >>>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>
                        >>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                        >>>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                        >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                        >implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Nelson Minar
                        ... As a builder of SOAP services intended for public use, I can confirm how big a problem this is. Trying to use document/literal web services from clients in
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 18, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >If you'll recall, *doc/lit* interop was in fact vastly harder to
                          >achieve, and many toolkits for scripting languages like PERL and Python
                          >still don't support it very well if at all, although their RPC/enc
                          >behavior is impeccable.

                          As a builder of SOAP services intended for public use, I can confirm
                          how big a problem this is. Trying to use document/literal web services
                          from clients in PHP, Python, or Perl is really difficult. And I
                          despair of good doc/lit ever being implemented in those languages,
                          because of the general anti-SOAP feeling from many folks who would be
                          natural developers for scripting languages. They're too busy getting
                          things done with ad-hoc solutions to keep up with WS-* documents.

                          I like doc/lit better than rpc/encoded too, and I think that WS-I BP
                          1.0 is a great piece of work. But as a practical matter the switch to
                          doc/lit has set back interop.
                        • gddamm
                          This is an interesting thread. I am just starting work creating on an Axis 1.2 based service and have discovered this issue while doing interop testing with a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 1, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            This is an interesting thread. I am just starting work creating on an
                            Axis 1.2 based service and have discovered this issue while doing
                            interop testing with a .net client. Does anyone on this thread know
                            of a simple fix to this issue? I get the don't use soapenc point, but
                            not sure how to easily implement with Axis. Is it as simple as using
                            an earlier version?

                            Thanks for any insight.

                            --- In soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Wes Moulder <wes@w...> wrote:
                            > Tom,
                            > Don't use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as
                            > the array mechanism, but
                            > use xsd types underneath the covers. This is what we did back in the
                            > day with all the interop testing
                            > we were doing.
                            > Not all toolkits support those types, but all will behave for the xsd
                            > types. The soapenc types were
                            > created to allow for the common attributes to appear on the xsd types
                            > when attempting to schema
                            > validate a soap encoded message. The root of the problem here, though,
                            > is attempting to schema
                            > validate a soap encoded message.
                            >
                            > --Wes
                            > Still waiting for his autographed Bible from the Come-to-Jesus XML
                            > sessions...
                            >
                            > Tom Jordahl wrote:
                            >
                            > >Chris,
                            > >
                            > >This isn't the forum for this.
                            > >
                            > >I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now.
                            > >
                            > ><rant>
                            > >The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is just bullsh*t.
                            > >Something I get real tired of hearing from people with an agenda to
                            push
                            > >(WS-I for instance). This group *in particular* was created to
                            insure the
                            > >implementations could interoperate, and it succeeded in this
                            respect several
                            > >years ago. WITH ENCODING. We were getting the job DONE.
                            > >
                            > >Then WS-I came along and said (surprise!) that the Microsoft way of
                            doing
                            > >things (literal) was much more interoperable. Wow. Really? It
                            seemed to
                            > >me, working on a real implementation (Axis 1.0), that *my* problems
                            with
                            > >interop didn't stem from encoding, but supporting the *broken*
                            encoding in
                            > >.NET (hey look, no 2D array support!). And having to invent things
                            like
                            > >'wrapped' mode to reverse engineer what MS had done with their literal
                            > >stuff. And having to rework the whole f**king engine because the Axis
                            > >architects decided to support the SOAP 1.1 encoding, just like the SOAP
                            > >specification SAID, and the world changed its mind.
                            > >
                            > >Look, I am not going to bash MS, because I am asking them for their
                            help.
                            > >The fact of the matter is, they have customers and I have customers
                            that
                            > >need to get *real work* done. My tool kit uses rpc/encoded, they
                            need to
                            > >interoperate with that. Bottom line. If they have bugs consuming my
                            > >rpc/encoded services, as are published today, they need to fix
                            them. If I
                            > >have bugs consuming their doc/lit services, I need to fix them too.
                            > >
                            > >With reasoned arguments from people like Tim Ewald and others
                            (mostly from
                            > >MS) I have had my Come-To-Jesus moment and realized that XML Schema
                            is good.
                            > >Literal web services are good. Having the rpc/encoded vs. doc/lit
                            wars is
                            > >BAD. Why were we given a choice in WSDL 1.1? That was bad. I
                            have been
                            > >working on the WSDL 2.0 working group for years, and you will
                            notice that we
                            > >learned from the mistakes. XML Schema is the one-true-way.
                            > >
                            > >But in the mean time, rpc/encoding exists and works and every major
                            toolkit
                            > >supports it. Customers need it to work. You can't dismiss my
                            request for
                            > >help on this forum with "Use WS-I", that goes directly against the
                            spirit in
                            > >which this group was formed.
                            > ></rant>
                            > >
                            > >I apologize for my rant to those implementers out there that might
                            actually
                            > >be able to give me some info about .NET and soap encoded arrays.
                            > >
                            > >Thanks.
                            > >
                            > >--
                            > >Tom Jordahl
                            > >Initial Axis implementer and committer
                            > >WSDL 2.0 Working Group member
                            > >WS-I representative for Macromedia
                            > >ColdFusion Architect
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >>-----Original Message-----
                            > >>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@u...]
                            > >>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:22 PM
                            > >>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>Tom,
                            > >>
                            > >>Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP
                            encoding is the
                            > >>bane of interoperability in
                            > >>Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require
                            support
                            > >>for SOAP encoding:
                            > >>
                            > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                            > >>
                            > >>"Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                            > >>encouraged but
                            > >>not required; other data models and encodings can be used in
                            conjunction
                            > >>with
                            > >>SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                            > >>
                            > >>Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                            > >>
                            > >>Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the
                            default (and
                            > >>that should be
                            > >>changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you
                            need to
                            > >>be using rpc-literal
                            > >>or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that
                            WSDL
                            > >>should be
                            > >>WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                            > >>
                            > >>Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd
                            have to
                            > >>code the C# by hand.
                            > >>If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal
                            wrappered
                            > >>is the way to go unless
                            > >>you are a glutton for punishment.
                            > >>
                            > >>WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set
                            the bar
                            > >>for
                            > >>interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP at
                            > >>this point.
                            > >>While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source project)
                            > >>from supporting
                            > >>features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have
                            interoperability
                            > >>as a
                            > >>non-functional requirement for their service should not be using those
                            > >>features (e.g.
                            > >>SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
                            > >>Profiles,
                            > >>then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
                            > >>platform/tooling.
                            > >>
                            > >>Cheers,
                            > >>
                            > >>Christopher Ferris
                            > >>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                            > >>email: chrisfer@u...
                            > >>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                            > >>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                            > >>
                            > >>Tom Jordahl <tomj@m...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>still
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
                            them).
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >> So
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I
                            think
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>is a
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
                            > >>>
                            > >>>--
                            > >>>Tom Jordahl
                            > >>>Macromedia Server Development
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>>-----Original Message-----
                            > >>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@u...]
                            > >>>>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
                            > >>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>always
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>been my understanding
                            > >>>>that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>WS-I
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>Profiles:-)
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>Cheers,
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>Christopher Ferris
                            > >>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                            > >>>>email: chrisfer@u...
                            > >>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                            > >>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>Tom Jordahl <tomj@m...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>Hello,
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>reported
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
                            > >>>>>understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
                            encoded
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>arrays.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>Our WSDL is this:
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>><complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
                            > >>>>> <complexContent>
                            > >>>>> <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
                            > >>>>> <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>> </restriction>
                            > >>>>> </complexContent>
                            > >>>>></complexType>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>For an operation that is simply:
                            > >>>>> String[] echo(String[] in)
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>.NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>types):
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>><soap:Body
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>> <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                            > >>>>> <in href="#id1" />
                            > >>>>> </q1:echo>
                            > >>>>> <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
                            > >>>>> <Item>one</Item>
                            > >>>>> <Item>two</Item>
                            > >>>>> <Item>three</Item>
                            > >>>>> </soapenc:Array>
                            > >>>>></soap:Body>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Axis 1.2 returns:
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>><soapenv:Body>
                            > >>>>> <ns1:echoResponse
                            > >>>>> soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
                            > >>>>> xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                            > >>>>> <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
                            > >>>>> xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
                            > >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                            > >>>>> <item>one</item>
                            > >>>>> <item>two</item>
                            > >>>>> <item>three</item>
                            > >>>>> </echoReturn>
                            > >>>>> </ns1:echoResponse>
                            > >>>>></soapenv:Body>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>.NET reports an error:
                            > >>>>>Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>error
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>in
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>specified
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>type was not recognized: name='string',
                            > >>>>>namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >><whoamiReturn
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>>xmlns=''>.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
                            311)."
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>-
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>this
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>error is from our user who is using VB.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>the
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>SOAP
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
                            this
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>shows
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>up. :-}
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>recognize
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>>these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
                            implementation
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>doing
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>(particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Thanks for any help/info.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>--
                            > >>>>>Tom Jordahl
                            > >>>>>Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>discuss
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>>implementation and
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>ADVERTISEMENT
                            > >>>>>[image removed]
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>[image removed]
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>>>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > >>>>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            discuss
                            > >>>>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                            > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>implementation and
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > >>>
                            > >>>ADVERTISEMENT
                            > >>>[image removed]
                            > >>>
                            > >>>[image removed]
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
                            > >>>
                            > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > >>>soapbuilders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>
                            > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>
                            > >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                            > >>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                            > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                            discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay
                            on-topic.
                            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                          • Anne Thomas Manes
                            This is not the proper forum to ask user questions. Please send Axis related questions to the Axis user list. See http://ws.apache.org/axis/mail.html. Anne
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 3, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              This is not the proper forum to ask user questions. Please send Axis
                              related questions to the Axis user list. See
                              http://ws.apache.org/axis/mail.html.

                              Anne

                              On Apr 1, 2005 9:14 PM, gddamm <garyd@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > This is an interesting thread. I am just starting work creating on an
                              > Axis 1.2 based service and have discovered this issue while doing
                              > interop testing with a .net client. Does anyone on this thread know
                              > of a simple fix to this issue? I get the don't use soapenc point, but
                              > not sure how to easily implement with Axis. Is it as simple as using
                              > an earlier version?
                              >
                              > Thanks for any insight.
                              >
                              > --- In soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Wes Moulder <wes@w...> wrote:
                              > > Tom,
                              > > Don't use soapenc types. It all works fine if you use soapenc:Array as
                              > > the array mechanism, but
                              > > use xsd types underneath the covers. This is what we did back in the
                              > > day with all the interop testing
                              > > we were doing.
                              > > Not all toolkits support those types, but all will behave for the xsd
                              > > types. The soapenc types were
                              > > created to allow for the common attributes to appear on the xsd types
                              > > when attempting to schema
                              > > validate a soap encoded message. The root of the problem here, though,
                              > > is attempting to schema
                              > > validate a soap encoded message.
                              > >
                              > > --Wes
                              > > Still waiting for his autographed Bible from the Come-to-Jesus XML
                              > > sessions...
                              > >
                              > > Tom Jordahl wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >Chris,
                              > > >
                              > > >This isn't the forum for this.
                              > > >
                              > > >I was taking the WS-I axe grinding in good humor up until now.
                              > > >
                              > > ><rant>
                              > > >The line that rpc/encoded is the bane of interop is just bullsh*t.
                              > > >Something I get real tired of hearing from people with an agenda to
                              > push
                              > > >(WS-I for instance). This group *in particular* was created to
                              > insure the
                              > > >implementations could interoperate, and it succeeded in this
                              > respect several
                              > > >years ago. WITH ENCODING. We were getting the job DONE.
                              > > >
                              > > >Then WS-I came along and said (surprise!) that the Microsoft way of
                              > doing
                              > > >things (literal) was much more interoperable. Wow. Really? It
                              > seemed to
                              > > >me, working on a real implementation (Axis 1.0), that *my* problems
                              > with
                              > > >interop didn't stem from encoding, but supporting the *broken*
                              > encoding in
                              > > >.NET (hey look, no 2D array support!). And having to invent things
                              > like
                              > > >'wrapped' mode to reverse engineer what MS had done with their literal
                              > > >stuff. And having to rework the whole f**king engine because the Axis
                              > > >architects decided to support the SOAP 1.1 encoding, just like the SOAP
                              > > >specification SAID, and the world changed its mind.
                              > > >
                              > > >Look, I am not going to bash MS, because I am asking them for their
                              > help.
                              > > >The fact of the matter is, they have customers and I have customers
                              > that
                              > > >need to get *real work* done. My tool kit uses rpc/encoded, they
                              > need to
                              > > >interoperate with that. Bottom line. If they have bugs consuming my
                              > > >rpc/encoded services, as are published today, they need to fix
                              > them. If I
                              > > >have bugs consuming their doc/lit services, I need to fix them too.
                              > > >
                              > > >With reasoned arguments from people like Tim Ewald and others
                              > (mostly from
                              > > >MS) I have had my Come-To-Jesus moment and realized that XML Schema
                              > is good.
                              > > >Literal web services are good. Having the rpc/encoded vs. doc/lit
                              > wars is
                              > > >BAD. Why were we given a choice in WSDL 1.1? That was bad. I
                              > have been
                              > > >working on the WSDL 2.0 working group for years, and you will
                              > notice that we
                              > > >learned from the mistakes. XML Schema is the one-true-way.
                              > > >
                              > > >But in the mean time, rpc/encoding exists and works and every major
                              > toolkit
                              > > >supports it. Customers need it to work. You can't dismiss my
                              > request for
                              > > >help on this forum with "Use WS-I", that goes directly against the
                              > spirit in
                              > > >which this group was formed.
                              > > ></rant>
                              > > >
                              > > >I apologize for my rant to those implementers out there that might
                              > actually
                              > > >be able to give me some info about .NET and soap encoded arrays.
                              > > >
                              > > >Thanks.
                              > > >
                              > > >--
                              > > >Tom Jordahl
                              > > >Initial Axis implementer and committer
                              > > >WSDL 2.0 Working Group member
                              > > >WS-I representative for Macromedia
                              > > >ColdFusion Architect
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >>-----Original Message-----
                              > > >>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@u...]
                              > > >>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:22 PM
                              > > >>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >>Subject: RE: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Tom,
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Right, WS-I says not to use rpc/encoded for a reason. SOAP
                              > encoding is the
                              > > >>bane of interoperability in
                              > > >>Web services. Note also that neither SOAP1.1, nor SOAP1.2, require
                              > support
                              > > >>for SOAP encoding:
                              > > >>
                              > > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/#_Toc478383512
                              > > >>
                              > > >>"Use of the data model and encoding style described in this section is
                              > > >>encouraged but
                              > > >>not required; other data models and encodings can be used in
                              > conjunction
                              > > >>with
                              > > >>SOAP (see section 4.1.1). "
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Thus, .NET may freely choose not to support its use.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Regardless of the fact that Axis produces rpc-encoded as the
                              > default (and
                              > > >>that should be
                              > > >>changed IMO), if interoperability is a key requirement, then you
                              > need to
                              > > >>be using rpc-literal
                              > > >>or (preferably) doc-literal WSDL to describe the service, and that
                              > WSDL
                              > > >>should be
                              > > >>WS-I BP 1.x conformant to boot.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Note that IIRC, VisualStudio doesn't eat rpc-literal either, you'd
                              > have to
                              > > >>code the C# by hand.
                              > > >>If you want interop with .NET, then doc-literal or doc-literal
                              > wrappered
                              > > >>is the way to go unless
                              > > >>you are a glutton for punishment.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>WS-I Profiles have been hammered out with the intent that they set
                              > the bar
                              > > >>for
                              > > >>interoperability of Web services. Most toolkits support the WS-I BP at
                              > > >>this point.
                              > > >>While the WS-I BP does not constrain a vendor (or open source project)
                              > > >>from supporting
                              > > >>features disallowed by the Profile, developers who have
                              > interoperability
                              > > >>as a
                              > > >>non-functional requirement for their service should not be using those
                              > > >>features (e.g.
                              > > >>SOAP encoding). If you color outside the lines defined by the WS-I
                              > > >>Profiles,
                              > > >>then YMMV as to whether you can achieve interoperability with another
                              > > >>platform/tooling.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Cheers,
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Christopher Ferris
                              > > >>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                              > > >>email: chrisfer@u...
                              > > >>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                              > > >>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                              > > >>
                              > > >>Tom Jordahl <tomj@m...> wrote on 12/17/2004 02:12:41 PM:
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>Well, that is cool for document/literal web services, but there are
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>still
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>*many* toolkits (like say, Axis) that default to rpc/encoded.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>WS-I says nothing about encoding behaviors (other than not to use
                              > them).
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >> So
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>it doesn't apply here. This is a .NET failure to consume what I
                              > think
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>is a
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>legitimate rpc/encoded web service.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>But thanks for playing Chris! :-)
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>--
                              > > >>>Tom Jordahl
                              > > >>>Macromedia Server Development
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>>-----Original Message-----
                              > > >>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@u...]
                              > > >>>>Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:50 PM
                              > > >>>>To: soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >>>>Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] .NET, SOAP encoded types and arrays
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>Could be because WS-I BP1.x disallows use of SOAP encoding. It has
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>always
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>been my understanding
                              > > >>>>that .NET would not support SOAP encoding.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>Bottom line, you want interop, color inside the lines drawn by the
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>WS-I
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>Profiles:-)
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>Cheers,
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>Christopher Ferris
                              > > >>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
                              > > >>>>email: chrisfer@u...
                              > > >>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
                              > > >>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>Tom Jordahl <tomj@m...> wrote on 12/17/2004 12:20:40 PM:
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>Hello,
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>Axis recently fixed up its type mapping system and our users have
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>reported
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>some interop problems. Specifically, .NET client does not seem to
                              > > >>>>>understand the soapenc types that Axis is sending it in SOAP
                              > encoded
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>arrays.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>Our WSDL is this:
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/"
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>><complexType name="ArrayOf_soapenc_string">
                              > > >>>>> <complexContent>
                              > > >>>>> <restriction base="soapenc:Array">
                              > > >>>>> <attribute ref="soapenc:arrayType"
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>wsdl:arrayType="soapenc:string[]"/>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>> </restriction>
                              > > >>>>> </complexContent>
                              > > >>>>></complexType>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>For an operation that is simply:
                              > > >>>>> String[] echo(String[] in)
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>.NET client sends this (note that it doesn't use the soap encoded
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>types):
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>><soap:Body
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>soap:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>> <q1:echo xmlns:q1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                              > > >>>>> <in href="#id1" />
                              > > >>>>> </q1:echo>
                              > > >>>>> <soapenc:Array id="id1" soapenc:arrayType="xsd:string[3]">
                              > > >>>>> <Item>one</Item>
                              > > >>>>> <Item>two</Item>
                              > > >>>>> <Item>three</Item>
                              > > >>>>> </soapenc:Array>
                              > > >>>>></soap:Body>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>Axis 1.2 returns:
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>><soapenv:Body>
                              > > >>>>> <ns1:echoResponse
                              > > >>>>> soapenv:encodingStyle=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/
                              > > >>>>> xmlns:ns1="http://DefaultNamespace">
                              > > >>>>> <echoReturn soapenc:arrayType="soapenc:string[3]"
                              > > >>>>> xsi:type="soapenc:Array"
                              > > >>>>>xmlns:soapenc="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
                              > > >>>>> <item>one</item>
                              > > >>>>> <item>two</item>
                              > > >>>>> <item>three</item>
                              > > >>>>> </echoReturn>
                              > > >>>>> </ns1:echoResponse>
                              > > >>>>></soapenv:Body>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>.NET reports an error:
                              > > >>>>>Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidOperationException: There is an
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>error
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>in
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>XML document (1, 308). ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>specified
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>type was not recognized: name='string',
                              > > >>>>>namespace='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/', at
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >><whoamiReturn
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>>xmlns=''>.
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>Actually, C# only says "There is an error in XML document (1,
                              > 311)."
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>-
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>this
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>error is from our user who is using VB.
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>It appears that only by accident did our previous releases not use
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>the
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>SOAP
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>encoded types due to bugs in our code. Now that we fixed them,
                              > this
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>shows
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>up. :-}
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>Why is .NET not using the soapenc types? Why is it unable to
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>recognize
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>>>these types in a rpc/encoded service? What are other
                              > implementation
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>doing
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>(particularly JAX-RPC implementation) about the SOAP encoded types?
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>Thanks for any help/info.
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>--
                              > > >>>>>Tom Jordahl
                              > > >>>>>Wearing his Apache Axis committer hat
                              > > >>>>>
                              > > >>>>>
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                              > > >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >>>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              > > >>>>>
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                              > > >>discuss
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                              > > >>>>implementation and
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
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                              > > >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >>>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              > discuss
                              > > >>>>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                              > > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >>>>
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                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >>>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>implementation and
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>>interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>ADVERTISEMENT
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                              > > >>>To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/
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                              > > >>
                              > > >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >>This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss
                              > > >>implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                              > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
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                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to
                              > discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay
                              > on-topic.
                              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > This group is a forum for builders of SOAP implementations to discuss implementation and interoperability issues. Please stay on-topic.
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
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