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...draft for review...a public comment statement for FWS.

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  • Jon Bolt
    I m anticipating that along w/ Eddy s map showing our desired launch/land locations, we ll also need a written statement explaining reasons for our requests.
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 19, 2011
    I'm anticipating that along w/ Eddy's map showing our desired launch/land locations, we'll also need a written statement explaining reasons for our requests.  It was evident FWS personnel did not understand much about our sports and naively thought the Upper Dam Recreation Area ought to work for us most of the time.  I've taken a stab at drafting a response from us educating FWS on how our sports work, why the Upper Dam Rec Area is incompatible with our needs most of the time, and explaining our preferred locations and why the are more prudent choices.  Feedback/editing welcome.
     
    May be worth reviewing before meeting at the lift tomorrow.
     
    Main concern I still have...Eddy's map and this letter are simply requests from us for what we'd like, and we are totally at the mercy of FWS to arbitrarily grant or deny them.  They give no argument for why we, as non-wildlife-dependent users, should have our request granted.  I wonder if we shouldn't also construct some sort of justification for our use, and the only argument I can envision is along the lines of us being entitled to less restriction because our uses have less wildlife impact than most others (for all sorts of reasons).  Restrictions should be proportional to impact, but their proposal imposed the same harsh restrictions on all non-wildlife uses, even the most benign.
  • Gear Daddy LLC
    I took a stab at editing John s work, Please feel free to wikipedia-itize my edit. In the end we can come up with something better, but definitely needs to be
    Message 2 of 7 , Jul 19, 2011
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      I took a stab at editing John's work, Please feel free to wikipedia-itize my edit. In the end we can come up with something better, but definitely needs to be shorter, with grammatical improvements:-)

      Brief Description of Wind powered sports:

      In meteorology, winds are often referred to according to their strength, and the direction from which the wind is blowing. Sailing is the art of controlling a boat or craft with large (usually fabric) foils called sails powered by the wind. A sailor manages the force of the wind on the sails in order to change the direction and speed of a boat. In most countries people now enjoy sailing as a recreational activity or as a sport.

      The air moving across the sails of a sailing vessel creates various forces, including reaction forces. If the sails are properly oriented with respect to the wind, then the net force on the sails will move the vessel forward. However, boats propelled by sails cannot sail directly into the wind. They must tack (turn the boat through the eye of the wind) back and forth in order to progress directly upwind. When a sailing craft is traveling approximately perpendicular to the wind, this is called reaching. Most all recreational sailing will be sailing in the Reaching leg, crossing back and forth across same path.

      Sailing is the most Nature friendly sport/recreational activity, utilizing only what Mother Nature provides: Wind, Water, Sun, and Fun. 

      BTW: President “Teddy” Roosevelt (founder of the National Wildlife Refuge) was also a Sailor.


      We are always told that a happy fulfilled life includes good leisure time so all of us really should have a hobby or an interest that we enjoy. Sports are not only great fun but are also a terrific way to keep fit. It’s great to have a good work out at the gym but that becomes repetitive and dare I say boring so why not try something new. Here are Wind Powered Sports for your consideration.

      Sailing: One of the oldest forms of transport and one of the most traditional of wind powered sports, sailing is a magnificent way of getting out on the water. Battling the waves and harnessing the power of the wind takes some skill but once learnt, highly enjoyable.

      Windsurfing: You don’t have to live next to the beach to enjoy this wind powered sport although there’s nothing quite like the ocean. Large inland lakes are acceptable substitutes. Windsurfing takes balance but once you’ve mastered the art, zipping along on the waves with the sail billowing is a thrilling experience and surprisingly speedy.

      Kites: Most of us probably have a memory of trying this as a kid and no doubt all of us have a recollection of a crayon drawing of the split diamond kite with a string full of bows but as a sport, it’s a different kind of fish. Kites are high tech and there are international competitions.

      Kite Boarding: Combining two of the traditional wind powered sports. Kite surfing involves being pulled along on the water by kite power. It requires the same wind and wave conditions as wind surfing.

       

      Brief description of Wind Sports User Needs at Lake Lowell:

      In alternatives 3 and 4, FWS proposes to permit wind-powered sports only at the Upper Dam Recreation Area.   Unfortunately, except in very rare conditions, this location is only compatible with one wind direction, which is from the Southeast, and confinement to that area would cut our activity on Lake Lowell by 90% or more.  To better assist FWS in considering more ideal locations for our activities, we offer the following brief education on key fundamentals of our sports, which govern selection of locations.

      Prevailing winds in the Treasure Valley are predominantly northwesterly.  It is reasonable to estimate that for 90% of the windy days at the Lake Lowell, wind comes from a northwestern direction.  Since our path of preferred travel is perpendicular to the wind. This prevailing direction is the biggest factor in why Gott’s Point and Parking Area 3 have become the locations of Choice for this lake over the past 20 years and more. Here are 2 RULES for these choices:

      1)     Shore locations for launching/landing should have winds with some degree of onshore to side-shore direction.  That is, the wind blows at or parallel to the launch location from over the water.  “Side onshore” is preferred…where the wind blows AT the shore location at an angle.

      2)     Sailor’s pledge: NEVER go out in a location where winds have an offshore component to their direction; i.e., the wind blows from the land OUT over the water. 

      The following explains why these two rules exist.  Since, wind sports are just another from of sail boating, where upwind access is acquired by tacking in a zigzag pattern into direction of wind.  In our sports, a minimum amount of “wind power” is needed to be able to tack upwind.  Unfortunately, though, wind is an unreliable force which can quit or fade at any time.  If the wind falls below the threshold for upwind travel, the sailor can only drift downwind.  In that event, shore should be somewhere downwind of the drifting sailor.  Should a sailor foolishly go out in a location having offshore winds, once leaving shore the sailor will be downwind of their launch location.  If the wind then fades below the speed needed for upwind travel, that sailor will be unable to return to their launch location and will drift downwind until some other location downwind can be reached. 

      The Upper Dam Rec Area is on the northwestern side of the lake, and has a southeast-facing view.  Since the winds at Lake Lowell are predominately northwest, those winds blow offshore at that Rec. Area.  No prudent sailor would go out at that location in typical northerly winds, and therefore, that location for our sports would very nearly eliminate wind sports on the lake.  The Upper Dam Area would be a sensible location only in strong southeasterly winds, which rarely occur.

      Given, this background on the lake’s prevailing winds, and their impact on choosing ideal sailing locations, we’ve learned over time where the prudent locations are for conduct of our sports.   Aside from the Upper Dam Area (usable only during southeasterly winds), the most prudent locations are:  Gott’s Point and the #3 Southside Access.  Of these three locations, the #3 Southside access is the most prudent and “forgiving” in most all typical conditions because it’s compatible with both NW and SE winds.  However, the #3 Southside access is available only in late summer or early fall when water sufficiently recedes (to 70-80% level exposing 10 yards or more of dry mud shoreline).  Until the Southside #3 access becomes available, the most prudent location for wind sports is Gott’s Point. Gott’s Point also works for NW and SE flows. However, since Gott’s Point is a peninsula and the wind is not necessarily onshore or side shore once in open water, most users prefer Southside #3, as it presents least return-to-shore risk in both flows.

      In summary, since we are powered by Wind & Water our sports will only take place on the windiest of days. Most windy days at Lake Lowell involves the movement of Weather Fronts; typically cold Fronts, with their strong Northwest flow, which produce winds from 15-35mph. Wind Sports Enthusiast will not likely show up and play if the winds are not in excess of 15mph. Most frontal systems move through during Spring and Fall when the Lake is least used by other activities.

      With Approval to use requested waters the Wind Powered Sports Users could agree to use areas under certain restrictions and maintain a less than 5mph near shore speed.  All activity near land will be reserved for the setup of equipment and access to water. Once on water all users will stay at designated distance from shoreline unless returning to shore to cease activity. Most activities will occur more than 100 yards from nearest shoreline and most will be centrally located in lake boundary area.

      lf the Upper Dam Recreation Area is to be a central location permitting most any type of non-wildlife-dependent recreation, then we too would like access to that area for our wind sports even though it’s likely we’d rarely use it.   But because the Upper Dam area is an imprudent location for us during most windy days, our primary interest is access to Gott’s Point and, when the water sufficiently recedes,  Southside Access #3.


      Eddy @ Gear Daddy LLC
      208-863-6966

      On Jul 19, 2011, at 6:27 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:

      I'm anticipating that along w/ Eddy's map showing our desired launch/land locations, we'll also need a written statement explaining reasons for our requests.  It was evident FWS personnel did not understand much about our sports and naively thought the Upper Dam Recreation Area ought to work for us most of the time.  I've taken a stab at drafting a response from us educating FWS on how our sports work, why the Upper Dam Rec Area is incompatible with our needs most of the time, and explaining our preferred locations and why the are more prudent choices.  Feedback/editing welcome.
       
      May be worth reviewing before meeting at the lift tomorrow.
       
      Main concern I still have...Eddy's map and this letter are simply requests from us for what we'd like, and we are totally at the mercy of FWS to arbitrarily grant or deny them.  They give no argument for why we, as non-wildlife-dependent users, should have our request granted.  I wonder if we shouldn't also construct some sort of justification for our use, and the only argument I can envision is along the lines of us being entitled to less restriction because our uses have less wildlife impact than most others (for all sorts of reasons).  Restrictions should be proportional to impact, but their proposal imposed the same harsh restrictions on all non-wildlife uses, even the most benign.

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    • Jack Harrison
      Jon - I agree, the Biologist will make recommendations and decisions based on their perceptions of our impacts on the Refuge. However, if we can support
      Message 3 of 7 , Jul 20, 2011
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        Jon – I agree, the Biologist will make recommendations and decisions based on their “perceptions of our impacts” on the Refuge.  However, if we can support many of the goals and minimize our impacts, maybe we have chance. With this approach, it seems like our justifications could include some commitments to support the “Draft Goals” as stated on page 2 of the handout (any one look at those?) and better understand how to minimize adverse effects…

         

        Here are a few ideas:

         

        = BSA Windsurfers/Kiters are a recreationalist that enjoy and appreciate the elements of nature similar to most other low impact activities (boating, sailing, canoeing, etc). We’re in our elements when there are wind and waves, which Lake Lowell provides us on occasion.

         

        = Many members appreciate and want to help preserve the more natural environment that Deer Flat Refuge has to offer. BSA will work to better understand the functions of the Refuge and how we can minimize any adverse effects mudflats, emergent beds and other areas that benefit migratory birds and wildlife. And, BSA will support efforts to increase public understanding…..

         

        = Many members are interested in learning about more natural aspects of the environment that we live in. BSA volunteers will meet with Biologists to learn about the migratory birds focusing on identification and understanding where and when important species. This information will then be commutated to the our group.   

         

        = As a group, we appreciate the less developed access areas of Gott’s Point (and??). BSA will work with the biologist and law enforcement to help ensure the this and ?? are regulations are understood and adhered to by our group and others that may be less informed (?). We will also organize an “Invasive Species Control” day to help remove plants from the access areas (?) or …. Other support activity requested by the Biologists.

         

         

        I guess from my perspective….It seems we are asking for special treatment. So maybe we need to plan on giving something in return. 

         

        Just my thoughts….Jack

         

         

         

        From: boisesailors@... [mailto:boisesailors@...] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
        Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:27 PM
        To: Boise Sailors Association; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com; Snowkiteidaho
        Subject: [BSA] ...draft for review...a public comment statement for FWS.

         

        I'm anticipating that along w/ Eddy's map showing our desired launch/land locations, we'll also need a written statement explaining reasons for our requests.  It was evident FWS personnel did not understand much about our sports and naively thought the Upper Dam Recreation Area ought to work for us most of the time.  I've taken a stab at drafting a response from us educating FWS on how our sports work, why the Upper Dam Rec Area is incompatible with our needs most of the time, and explaining our preferred locations and why the are more prudent choices.  Feedback/editing welcome.

         

        May be worth reviewing before meeting at the lift tomorrow.

         

        Main concern I still have...Eddy's map and this letter are simply requests from us for what we'd like, and we are totally at the mercy of FWS to arbitrarily grant or deny them.  They give no argument for why we, as non-wildlife-dependent users, should have our request granted.  I wonder if we shouldn't also construct some sort of justification for our use, and the only argument I can envision is along the lines of us being entitled to less restriction because our uses have less wildlife impact than most others (for all sorts of reasons).  Restrictions should be proportional to impact, but their proposal imposed the same harsh restrictions on all non-wildlife uses, even the most benign.

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      • Jon Bolt
        Thanks Jack...I see the tactic you suggest... I was suggesting challenging/arguing why we have less wildlife impact and therefore merit less restriction. That
        Message 4 of 7 , Jul 20, 2011
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          Thanks Jack...I see the tactic you suggest...
           
          I was suggesting challenging/arguing why we have less wildlife impact and therefore merit less restriction.  That is more confrontational and "going upwind".  You are emphasizing partnering better w/ FWS to improve our perceived alignment w/ their objectives in hopes it will reduce their perception of the threat we pose, and influence them to give us special consideration.  Have to think about whether we would tactfully do both or just abandon the upwind work...
           
          Can you make it to The Lift @ 7PM tonight?
           
          Jon

          On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Jack Harrison <hyqual@...> wrote:

          Jon – I agree, the Biologist will make recommendations and decisions based on their “perceptions of our impacts” on the Refuge.  However, if we can support many of the goals and minimize our impacts, maybe we have chance. With this approach, it seems like our justifications could include some commitments to support the “Draft Goals” as stated on page 2 of the handout (any one look at those?) and better understand how to minimize adverse effects…

           

          Here are a few ideas:

           

          = BSA Windsurfers/Kiters are a recreationalist that enjoy and appreciate the elements of nature similar to most other low impact activities (boating, sailing, canoeing, etc). We’re in our elements when there are wind and waves, which Lake Lowell provides us on occasion.

           

          = Many members appreciate and want to help preserve the more natural environment that Deer Flat Refuge has to offer. BSA will work to better understand the functions of the Refuge and how we can minimize any adverse effects mudflats, emergent beds and other areas that benefit migratory birds and wildlife. And, BSA will support efforts to increase public understanding…..

           

          = Many members are interested in learning about more natural aspects of the environment that we live in. BSA volunteers will meet with Biologists to learn about the migratory birds focusing on identification and understanding where and when important species. This information will then be commutated to the our group.   

           

          = As a group, we appreciate the less developed access areas of Gott’s Point (and??). BSA will work with the biologist and law enforcement to help ensure the this and ?? are regulations are understood and adhered to by our group and others that may be less informed (?). We will also organize an “Invasive Species Control” day to help remove plants from the access areas (?) or …. Other support activity requested by the Biologists.

           

           

          I guess from my perspective….It seems we are asking for special treatment. So maybe we need to plan on giving something in return. 

           

          Just my thoughts….Jack

           

           

           

          From: boisesailors@... [mailto:boisesailors@...] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
          Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:27 PM
          To: Boise Sailors Association; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com; Snowkiteidaho
          Subject: [BSA] ...draft for review...a public comment statement for FWS.

           

          I'm anticipating that along w/ Eddy's map showing our desired launch/land locations, we'll also need a written statement explaining reasons for our requests.  It was evident FWS personnel did not understand much about our sports and naively thought the Upper Dam Recreation Area ought to work for us most of the time.  I've taken a stab at drafting a response from us educating FWS on how our sports work, why the Upper Dam Rec Area is incompatible with our needs most of the time, and explaining our preferred locations and why the are more prudent choices.  Feedback/editing welcome.

           

          May be worth reviewing before meeting at the lift tomorrow.

           

          Main concern I still have...Eddy's map and this letter are simply requests from us for what we'd like, and we are totally at the mercy of FWS to arbitrarily grant or deny them.  They give no argument for why we, as non-wildlife-dependent users, should have our request granted.  I wonder if we shouldn't also construct some sort of justification for our use, and the only argument I can envision is along the lines of us being entitled to less restriction because our uses have less wildlife impact than most others (for all sorts of reasons).  Restrictions should be proportional to impact, but their proposal imposed the same harsh restrictions on all non-wildlife uses, even the most benign.

          --

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        • Tom von Alten
          I think Jack s approach is spot-on. We have to see it from their POV, which, for the upwind approach, as you call it, Jon, is blah blah blah blah not one of
          Message 5 of 7 , Jul 20, 2011
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            I think Jack's approach is spot-on. We have to see it from their POV,
            which, for the "upwind" approach, as you call it, Jon, is blah blah
            blah blah not one of the Big 6 blah blah blah.

            > ...emphasizing partnering better w/ FWS to improve our
            > perceived alignment w/ their objectives in hopes it will reduce their
            > perception of the threat we pose, and influence them to give us special
            > consideration....

            We do not pose a threat. Put that out of your mind. We are not
            asking for "special consideration." OUR SPORTS REPRESENT A
            COMPATIBLE USE OF THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE, and
            here's why - [what Jack wrote, plus the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE over
            the last three decades].

            If we confront, argue, badger, wheedle, etc., we will be PERCEIVED
            AS A THREAT, and people who wear khaki uniforms to do their job
            will respond accordingly. And as someone steeped in the ways of
            bureaucracy, I have to tell you, if the FWS gets a notion to say no,
            it'll be like shooting ducks in a pond.

            And yeah, that's one of the Big 6.
            _____________
            Tom von Alten       http://fortboise.org/
            tva@...
          • Jim Tighe
            Partnering w/fws is the best tack for our group. Nicely put by tom n jack. Tom von Alten wrote: I think Jack s approach is spot-on. We
            Message 6 of 7 , Jul 20, 2011
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              Partnering w/fws is the best "tack" for our group. Nicely put by tom n jack.

              Tom von Alten <tva@...> wrote:


              I think Jack's approach is spot-on. We have to see it from their POV,
              which, for the "upwind" approach, as you call it, Jon, is blah blah
              blah blah not one of the Big 6 blah blah blah.

              > ...emphasizing partnering better w/ FWS to improve our
              > perceived alignment w/ their objectives in hopes it will reduce their
              > perception of the threat we pose, and influence them to give us special
              > consideration....

              We do not pose a threat. Put that out of your mind. We are not
              asking for "special consideration." OUR SPORTS REPRESENT A
              COMPATIBLE USE OF THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE, and
              here's why - [what Jack wrote, plus the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE over
              the last three decades].

              If we confront, argue, badger, wheedle, etc., we will be PERCEIVED
              AS A THREAT, and people who wear khaki uniforms to do their job
              will respond accordingly. And as someone steeped in the ways of
              bureaucracy, I have to tell you, if the FWS gets a notion to say no,
              it'll be like shooting ducks in a pond.

              And yeah, that's one of the Big 6.
              _____________
              Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
              tva@...

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            • Jason Brickner
              Hey guys, I agree that the partnering approach sounds best. I tried the other approach many years ago at Gott s Point and I think it sent us backwards.
              Message 7 of 7 , Jul 20, 2011
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                Hey guys,
                 
                I agree that the 'partnering' approach sounds best.  I tried the other approach many years ago at Gott's Point and I think it sent us backwards.
                 
                Thanks for everyone's hard work.
                 
                -Jason


                From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Tighe
                Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:42 AM
                To: Tom von Alten; Boise Sailors Association; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com; Snowkiteidaho
                Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Re: [BSA] ...draft for review...a public comment statement for FWS.

                 

                Partnering w/fws is the best "tack" for our group. Nicely put by tom n jack.

                Tom von Alten <tva@...> wrote:

                I think Jack's approach is spot-on. We have to see it from their POV,
                which, for the "upwind" approach, as you call it, Jon, is blah blah
                blah blah not one of the Big 6 blah blah blah.

                > ...emphasizing partnering better w/
                FWS to improve our
                > perceived alignment w/ their objectives in hopes it
                will reduce their
                > perception of the threat we pose, and influence them
                to give us special
                > consideration....

                We do not pose a threat. Put that out of your mind. We are not
                asking for "special consideration." OUR SPORTS REPRESENT A
                COMPATIBLE USE OF THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE, and
                here's why - [what Jack wrote, plus the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE over
                the last three decades].

                If we confront, argue, badger, wheedle, etc., we will be PERCEIVED
                AS A THREAT, and people who wear khaki uniforms to do their job
                will respond accordingly. And as someone steeped in the ways of
                bureaucracy, I have to tell you, if the FWS gets a notion to say no,
                it'll be like shooting ducks in a pond.

                And yeah, that's one of the Big 6.
                _____________
                Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
                tva@...

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