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RE: [BSA] Re: Lake Lowell Access

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  • Gear Daddy, LLC
    Kiting was banned on Bird Island only which was a crumby spot to begin with, all because of one disgruntled ranger incident with a nice husband and wife, I
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 25, 2006
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      Kiting was banned on Bird Island only which was a crumby spot to begin
      with, all because of one disgruntled ranger incident with a nice husband and
      wife, I heard the story first hand.

      We will be treading lightly and since the season is over at the weeks end
      I'm sure we will just postpone doing anything until next year.

      Eddy

      -----Original Message-----
      From: BoiseSailors@... [mailto:BoiseSailors@...]
      On Behalf Of Gregory Laprade
      Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:07 AM
      To: Tom von Alten
      Cc: 'Boise Sailors Association'; snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BSA] Re: Lake Lowell Access


      Wow, lower down on that page it talks about the kiting ban in South Padre
      Island. Isn't that one of the learning Meccas?

      I would find it hard to believe that the Lake Lowell authorities have
      constructed a detailed research program like it describes them doing in Tx,
      but maybe I don't give them enough credit.

      I bet it's a simple mis-understanding, and I'd agree with Tom that treading
      lightly is the best policy.

      G

      On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 08:29:30AM -0600, Tom von Alten wrote:
      >
      > Sent this just to Eddy, meant to send it to all. So here.
      >
      >
      > Sounds like an unfortunate run-in. Best to be as polite as possible
      > with people in uniforms, as they can and will make life miserable for
      > you--and us--if sufficiently motivated.
      >
      > If windsurfing has been specifically banned, it's a change in policy,
      > as we have been doing that on Lake Lowell for many years without any
      > such reports being made. Kitesurfing is a new story, and there HAVE
      > been incidents and rumors elsewhere...
      >
      > See http://www.kitemare.com/Save%20our%20Sport!.htm for example.


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    • Tom von Alten
      Crazy story, Rich. Astounding that they would make you twiddle your lights in the day time. Correct me if I m wrong, but you don t have to have a bow light
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 26, 2006
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        Crazy story, Rich. Astounding that they would make you twiddle
        your lights in the day time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't
        have to have a bow light during the day do you? Any more than
        a cop could stop you in a car, ask you to show him that your lights
        work and cite you for them not working during daylight hours.

        I don't have experience good or bad with Lowell Patrol, but imagine
        that it's possible the particular guys (I'm assuming) you ran into
        were buttheads, but that they aren't all that way.

        If everyone who's abused quietly goes away, it won't get fixed;
        I think it's important that we understand who's in charge out there
        and set expectations for appropriate behavior. They work for US,
        after all; we pay their salaries.

        If they want to be professional buttheads, they can sign up for
        the NFL or something.

        My $.02
        _____________
        Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org
        tva@...
      • Jason Brickner
        I, also enjoyed Lake Lowell. It was my first time, but I promised myself to go back when the planets aligned. I enjoyed riding on a SE course into the
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 27, 2006
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          I, also enjoyed Lake Lowell. It was my first time, but I promised myself to
          go back when the planets aligned. I enjoyed riding on a SE course into the
          setting sun. It was warm. There wasn't a boat or bird or person in sight
          (except for Eddy and B-Rad). I felt I really connected with nature. Isn't
          that what that place is all about.

          I wonder what the REAL reason is for not allowing us to use this wonderful
          resource. What is the REAL concern? As far as I can tell, we have
          absolutely NO negative impact on the area. The best thing about our sport
          is that everyone and everything else is taking shelter and hunkering down
          while we are out enjoying.

          -Jason

          -----Original Message-----
          From: BoiseSailors@... [mailto:BoiseSailors@...]
          On Behalf Of Lee, Chris (DPT-BOISE)
          Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:36 PM
          To: Boise Sailors Association; snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BSA] Re: Lake Lowell Access


          I do understand it may not be worth the effort given how rare it goes
          off. On the other hand, I worry about setting a precedence and that may
          eventually lead to banning in other local sites.

          One nice thing about Lake Lowell (when I still had my old 12' board) to
          be able to "cruise" into the sunset. It's a totally different feeling
          than ripping fast on a slalom board. It felt nice & free!

          Best regards,

          Chris Lee
          -----Original Message-----
          From: BoiseSailors@...
          [mailto:BoiseSailors@...] On Behalf Of Williams, Rod
          (Inkjet Supplies)
          Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:27 PM
          To: Tom von Alten; Boise Sailors Association;
          snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BSA] RE: Lake Lowell Access


          It is interesting to do a Google search on "windsurfing in wildlife
          refuges" or "kite boarding in wildlife refuges" (the later gives you
          mostly hits on a "kite" a type of bird, but occasionally hits on the old
          fashioned type of kiting - where you stand firmly on the ground and the
          kite does not drag you around!).

          The hits I found were all over the map. Some refuges actually promote
          windsurfing in the refuge, others explicitly ban windsurfing and/or kite
          flying.

          Based on this it seems doubtful that the issue here is a matter of
          national policy. It sounds more like an issue up to the discretion of
          the local manager. Perhaps a meeting with Ms Johnson, with as many of
          us showing up as possible, to engage in polite and informative dialogue
          might win the day.

          On the other hand, with Indian creek, Luck peak and CJ strike at our
          disposal, perhaps it is not worth the effort.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: BoiseSailors@...
          [mailto:BoiseSailors@...] On Behalf Of Tom von Alten
          Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:56 PM
          To: 'Boise Sailors Association'; snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BSA] RE: Lake Lowell Access


          Steve Baker sent me his account of the incident at the Lake last week,
          and gave me permission to forward it to these groups. It seems that from
          the refuge manager's point of view, kitesailing, at least, IS INDEED
          BANNED. (Perhaps if people hadn't tried to tow parasailors behind
          motorboats, they wouldn't have had a knee-jerk reaction to the concept?
          Who knows.)

          Windsurfing MAY BE banned ("no permission is granted"), but is at least
          in limbo, along with motor toys. I have no idea how ripe or valid any
          of the cited "lawsuits from both sides" might be.

          I'm open to suggestion for the best way to coordinate a response that
          produces the result we want -- lake access for our environmentally
          friendly, low-impact sports.
          _____________
          Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org
          tva@...


          > -----Original Message-----
          > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:26 AM
          > Subject: Sailing report
          >
          > Steve Baker, sbakerdvm@..., and I read your letter on the
          > snowkite group site. I'm unable to get on that group so far, so I'm
          > sending this on (another account); you can write back to my email
          > address.
          >
          > I was the one prohibited from launching (it still hurts; the wind was
          > so nice) by Todd Fenzl, the deputy manager from the refuge. I called
          > and had a nice talk with Elaine Johnson, the refuge manager. She was
          > very patient, articulate, and well informed concerning the matters of
          > this and other refuges' rules and regs. She's also not in favor of
          > motorboats vs. human powered crafts, but Lake Lowell is partially
          > funded by selling duck stamps, and so hunting for certain species at
          > certain times is allowed. The fight against motorboats ands jet skis
          > is beginning, but she feels it will be a monumental task, and she
          > faces lawsuits on both sides of the issue (from the rednecks and the
          > conservationists).
          >
          > Basically, the refuge exists to protect migratory routes and nesting
          > areas; any activity on the refuge must also support that; in some
          > twisted way, hunting supports that (see above). The other issues are
          > education, fishing, species conservation, and I forget the other two
          > (she referred to them as 'the big six').
          >
          > Motorboats and hunting go hand in hand; sailing and canoes help fund
          > and help educate, but I could not convince her that riding a surfboard

          > either under sail or kite powered was another way to educate oneself
          > on the complexities of the grebe mating display. She also pointed out

          > that the air above a refuge is controlled airspace, and kites with
          > people dangling under them is a violation of this rule.
          >
          > I asked her if it was futile to pursue this further; she said the
          > final decision would have to come from far above her or the regional
          > office; we both called USFWS law enforcement for their take, and they
          > agreed. According to them, there's no benefit to having kiters and
          > windsurfers there, so no permission is granted. So that leaves a
          > campaign with the National Office, a branch of which is at NIFC, but
          > only the fire branch. They would give us more information, or if
          > anyone knows some senators...?







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