Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [BSA] RE: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

Expand Messages
  • Steve Linane
    Jason Jim V had two separate incidents last week with kiters and that s what prompted this . I ve been told by a few wind surfers that kites make them nervous
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Jason
      Jim V had two separate incidents last week with kiters and that's what prompted this . I've been told by a few wind surfers that kites make them nervous and I understand that , they make me nervous also (kites). because of this I made the decision to stay down wind. because the windsurfs prefer to sail way upwind in the canyon . but that's just me I'm not saying this should be a rule . there is less traffic down wind and I prefer it anyway , the swells are larger at the point . this is voluntary segregation on my part but I reserve the right to break my own rule .
      Steve
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:06 PM
      Subject: [BSA] RE: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

      Hello Tom,
       
      Have there been any problems with ROW recently?  I know I went upwind to hang with Jack and Penny and JimV yesterday.  I hope I didn't interfere with anyone.  Are there any specific instances or is this just a reminder?
       
      -JBrick


      From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom von Alten
      Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:47 PM
      To: 'Boise Sailors Association'
      Cc: 'Snowkiteidaho'; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

       

      That would be Right of Way, of course.

      I still don't know what to expect from an experienced kiter, and
      all bets are off on a newbie. What are they taught about dealing
      with other kiters, sailors, and other marine traffic?

      Here's something: http://kitesurfings chool.org/ rules.htm

      What I do know is that everybody -- absolutely everybody -- has
      the same, simple rule #1: AVOID COLLISION. How you do that is
      by keeping clear of other vessels.

      Simple!

      Beyond that, it can get increasingly sketchy. Do remember that
      "STARBOARD!" is a fun thing to yell in a yacht race, but beyond
      that may be putting too much emphasis on nuance. For sailing vessels
      with equal maneuverability, and roughly the same point of sail on
      opposite tacks, the one on the starboard tack (right leg in front
      with the wind on your back, which it pretty much is for boardsailing
      of either sort) is "privileged, " and should HOLD COURSE to allow the
      port tack vessel ("burdened") to change course as needed to accomplish
      rule #1.

      If the port-side dude[tte] doesn't get it, doesn't see you, doesn't
      have a clue, or control (spun out? overpowered? inexperienced? ),
      or whatever, refer to rule #1.

      Upwind = more maneuverable; look out below. (Kiters: look before
      you leap!)

      If you're on a broad reach, you're more maneuverable and should
      be adjusting your course to avoid everyone on tighter courses
      (beam-reach, close reach, close-hauled) .

      Kiters, YOU ARE HUGE to us tiny pole-people. That means you and we
      need more clearance. Please.

      Yours for collision-free sailing,
      ____________ _
      Tom von Alten http://fortboise. org/
      tva@fortboise. org


      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
      This message is via your subscription to the Google Groups
      "Boise Sailors Association" group.
      To post: BoiseSailors@...
      To unsubscribe: BoiseSailors-unsubscribe@...
      Group stuff: http://groups.google.com/group/BoiseSailors
      Sailing stuff: http://fortboise.org/windsurfing/
      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

    • Jon Bolt
      Yes, one of Jim V s. incident reports was of a starboard tack ROW transgression. Kiters definitely need to be more attentive to watching for that situation
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 4, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes, one of Jim V's. incident reports was of a starboard tack ROW transgression.  Kiters definitely need to be more attentive to watching for that situation and applying that rule.  I will say, though, different windsurfers have different degrees of expectation as to how much room they'd like.  In every busy kiting spot in the world, kiters routinely pass each other with upwind kite high and downwind kite low and downwind rider moves under the lines of the upwind rider.  Happens all the time and not a ROW violation or deemed an unsafe encroachement error...it's following the ROW rules.  Upwind rider raises his/her kite high, downwind rider lowers their's.  Therefore, to a kiter, having a windsurfer pass under your kite or lines does not feel improper...its just like a kiter passing under..  Some windsurfers, though appear appear very uncomfortable with passing under a raised kite/lines while others seem to have no problem.  LIke Steve, I prefer to find a different place to play.  In any case, though, kiters likely need to be more mindful of this starboard rule and applying it, but not clear if that will mean a windsurfer is never to pass under a kite.
         
        The other incident was an upwind/downwind ROW event.  Windsurfer was upwind headed down to Barclay, bearing down toward a downwind kiter who's back was facing him.  The kiter suddenly jibed to reverse his/her reach and poler was surprised at the suddenly oncoming kiter and reported a "super close" call..  It was suggested kiters should be more careful to look before turning.  However, even if a kiter attempts a look, their neck may not crane far enough to see everything, and they're looking into the sun.  VERY easy to miss seeing someone.  I routinely am looking upwind to see wind/water conditions that are coming and despite that it is not infrequent that I get totally surprised by a poler's board suddenly banging up right behind me.  Therefore, the upwind rider has to take primary responsibility to allow sufficient room and avert collision, and that's why the upwind ROW rule exists.  If a super-close event happened, the upwind rider didn't allow enough room.
         
        Steve's suggestion of an informal segregation, much like Hood River or Sherman Island or other busy windspots, would minimize the instances of this problem.  And besides, I find that the big windsurf boards really rough-up the water and when around a lot of polers the water gets too torn up to be good for kiters. 
        On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Steve Linane <stevelinane@...> wrote:
        Jason
        Jim V had two separate incidents last week with kiters and that's what prompted this . I've been told by a few wind surfers that kites make them nervous and I understand that , they make me nervous also (kites). because of this I made the decision to stay down wind. because the windsurfs prefer to sail way upwind in the canyon . but that's just me I'm not saying this should be a rule . there is less traffic down wind and I prefer it anyway , the swells are larger at the point . this is voluntary segregation on my part but I reserve the right to break my own rule .
        Steve
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:06 PM
        Subject: [BSA] RE: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

        Hello Tom,
         
        Have there been any problems with ROW recently?  I know I went upwind to hang with Jack and Penny and JimV yesterday.  I hope I didn't interfere with anyone.  Are there any specific instances or is this just a reminder?
         
        -JBrick


        From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom von Alten
        Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:47 PM
        To: 'Boise Sailors Association'
        Cc: 'Snowkiteidaho'; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

         

        That would be Right of Way, of course.

        I still don't know what to expect from an experienced kiter, and
        all bets are off on a newbie. What are they taught about dealing
        with other kiters, sailors, and other marine traffic?

        Here's something: http://kitesurfingschool.org/rules.htm

        What I do know is that everybody -- absolutely everybody -- has
        the same, simple rule #1: AVOID COLLISION. How you do that is
        by keeping clear of other vessels.

        Simple!

        Beyond that, it can get increasingly sketchy. Do remember that
        "STARBOARD!" is a fun thing to yell in a yacht race, but beyond
        that may be putting too much emphasis on nuance. For sailing vessels
        with equal maneuverability, and roughly the same point of sail on
        opposite tacks, the one on the starboard tack (right leg in front
        with the wind on your back, which it pretty much is for boardsailing
        of either sort) is "privileged," and should HOLD COURSE to allow the
        port tack vessel ("burdened") to change course as needed to accomplish
        rule #1.

        If the port-side dude[tte] doesn't get it, doesn't see you, doesn't
        have a clue, or control (spun out? overpowered? inexperienced?),
        or whatever, refer to rule #1.

        Upwind = more maneuverable; look out below. (Kiters: look before
        you leap!)

        If you're on a broad reach, you're more maneuverable and should
        be adjusting your course to avoid everyone on tighter courses
        (beam-reach, close reach, close-hauled).

        Kiters, YOU ARE HUGE to us tiny pole-people. That means you and we
        need more clearance. Please.

        Yours for collision-free sailing,
        _____________
        Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
        tva@...

        --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
        This message is via your subscription to the Google Groups
        "Boise Sailors Association" group.
        To post: BoiseSailors@...
        To unsubscribe: BoiseSailors-unsubscribe@...
        Group stuff: http://groups.google.com/group/BoiseSailors
        Sailing stuff: http://fortboise.org/windsurfing/
        -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---


      • Jason Brickner
        ..and passing under Jon s kite is how we high five when it s solid beef baby! But seriously... I had no idea windsurfers were uncomfortable passing under
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 4, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          ...and passing under Jon's kite is how we 'high five' when it's "solid beef baby!"
           
          But seriously... I had no idea windsurfers were uncomfortable passing under my kite.  There have been MANY instances this year that I have had a slight upwind edge on a windsurfer and held that line forcing them to ride under my lines.  I THOUGHT NOTHING ABOUT IT.  If I'm under control, is this a problem?  I'm thinking about when I kite at hood river on a busy day.  The kiters are constantly passing under and over each other without incident.
           
          If the windsurfers don't want me around them, let me know.  I actually like sharing the water with everyone.  And as much as I like the kiters, I'm starting to enjoy the windsurfers too.  Honestly, the reason I went up canyon on Sunday was not for better wind, but to watch the windsurfers tear it up.  It's fun to see Betsy's big smile, and Chris Lee breaking the speed limit, JimT having too much fun, and JimV jibing like a madman, and where has the crazy Canadian Murray been?  It's also fun to wonder if JackH is happy on the pole or would he like to have the kite out.
           
          Good winds... and speaking of wind.... Chris.... When will it come back?
           
          -JBrick


          From: BoiseSailors@... [mailto:BoiseSailors@...] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
          Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:29 AM
          To: Steve Linane
          Cc: Jason Brickner; snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com; Boise Sailors Association; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BSA] Re: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

          Yes, one of Jim V's. incident reports was of a starboard tack ROW transgression.  Kiters definitely need to be more attentive to watching for that situation and applying that rule.  I will say, though, different windsurfers have different degrees of expectation as to how much room they'd like.  In every busy kiting spot in the world, kiters routinely pass each other with upwind kite high and downwind kite low and downwind rider moves under the lines of the upwind rider.  Happens all the time and not a ROW violation or deemed an unsafe encroachement error...it's following the ROW rules.  Upwind rider raises his/her kite high, downwind rider lowers their's.  Therefore, to a kiter, having a windsurfer pass under your kite or lines does not feel improper...its just like a kiter passing under..  Some windsurfers, though appear appear very uncomfortable with passing under a raised kite/lines while others seem to have no problem.  LIke Steve, I prefer to find a different place to play.  In any case, though, kiters likely need to be more mindful of this starboard rule and applying it, but not clear if that will mean a windsurfer is never to pass under a kite.
           
          The other incident was an upwind/downwind ROW event.  Windsurfer was upwind headed down to Barclay, bearing down toward a downwind kiter who's back was facing him.  The kiter suddenly jibed to reverse his/her reach and poler was surprised at the suddenly oncoming kiter and reported a "super close" call..  It was suggested kiters should be more careful to look before turning.  However, even if a kiter attempts a look, their neck may not crane far enough to see everything, and they're looking into the sun.  VERY easy to miss seeing someone.  I routinely am looking upwind to see wind/water conditions that are coming and despite that it is not infrequent that I get totally surprised by a poler's board suddenly banging up right behind me.  Therefore, the upwind rider has to take primary responsibility to allow sufficient room and avert collision, and that's why the upwind ROW rule exists.  If a super-close event happened, the upwind rider didn't allow enough room.
           
          Steve's suggestion of an informal segregation, much like Hood River or Sherman Island or other busy windspots, would minimize the instances of this problem.  And besides, I find that the big windsurf boards really rough-up the water and when around a lot of polers the water gets too torn up to be good for kiters. 
          On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Steve Linane <stevelinane@...> wrote:
          Jason
          Jim V had two separate incidents last week with kiters and that's what prompted this . I've been told by a few wind surfers that kites make them nervous and I understand that , they make me nervous also (kites). because of this I made the decision to stay down wind. because the windsurfs prefer to sail way upwind in the canyon . but that's just me I'm not saying this should be a rule . there is less traffic down wind and I prefer it anyway , the swells are larger at the point . this is voluntary segregation on my part but I reserve the right to break my own rule
          Steve
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:06 PM
          Subject: [BSA] RE: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

          Hello Tom,
           
          Have there been any problems with ROW recently?  I know I went upwind to hang with Jack and Penny and JimV yesterday.  I hope I didn't interfere with anyone.  Are there any specific instances or is this just a reminder?
           
          -JBrick


          From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom von Alten
          Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:47 PM
          To: 'Boise Sailors Association'
          Cc: 'Snowkiteidaho'; idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Time for the annual ROW thread?

           

          That would be Right of Way, of course.

          I still don't know what to expect from an experienced kiter, and
          all bets are off on a newbie. What are they taught about dealing
          with other kiters, sailors, and other marine traffic?

          Here's something: http://kitesurfingschool.org/rules.htm

          What I do know is that everybody -- absolutely everybody -- has
          the same, simple rule #1: AVOID COLLISION. How you do that is
          by keeping clear of other vessels.

          Simple!

          Beyond that, it can get increasingly sketchy. Do remember that
          "STARBOARD!" is a fun thing to yell in a yacht race, but beyond
          that may be putting too much emphasis on nuance. For sailing vessels
          with equal maneuverability, and roughly the same point of sail on
          opposite tacks, the one on the starboard tack (right leg in front
          with the wind on your back, which it pretty much is for boardsailing
          of either sort) is "privileged," and should HOLD COURSE to allow the
          port tack vessel ("burdened") to change course as needed to accomplish
          rule #1.

          If the port-side dude[tte] doesn't get it, doesn't see you, doesn't
          have a clue, or control (spun out? overpowered? inexperienced?),
          or whatever, refer to rule #1.

          Upwind = more maneuverable; look out below. (Kiters: look before
          you leap!)

          If you're on a broad reach, you're more maneuverable and should
          be adjusting your course to avoid everyone on tighter courses
          (beam-reach, close reach, close-hauled).

          Kiters, YOU ARE HUGE to us tiny pole-people. That means you and we
          need more clearance. Please.

          Yours for collision-free sailing,
          _____________
          Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
          tva@...


          --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
          This message is via your subscription to the Google Groups
          "Boise Sailors Association" group.
          To post: BoiseSailors@...
          To unsubscribe: BoiseSailors-unsubscribe@...
          Group stuff: http://groups.google.com/group/BoiseSailors
          Sailing stuff: http://fortboise.org/windsurfing/
          -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

        • Lee, Chris (CEFS - BOISE)
          Jason asked: Good winds... and speaking of wind.... Chris.... When will it come back? I m it s not a matter of when but it s where... So, if you can clear your
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 5, 2009
          • 0 Attachment

            Jason asked:

            Good winds... and speaking of wind.... Chris.... When will it come back?

             

            I’m it’s not a matter of when but it’s where…

             

            So, if you can clear your Friday schedule and don’t mind the drive, it will be (should be) blowing at the Three Mile.  If you really want to catch all the wind, it will more than likely start blowing late Thursday through pretty much all day Friday.  You can also look at what Temira’s said here.

             

            My guess is it will be strong enough for kite on Sat and Sun there also.

             

            I’m planning to head out early Friday to catch the wind there and then probably head to Hood River for the weekend.

             

            Sadly for morning wind, it’s probably be messed up for a while – probably until Tue/Wed at the least.  There’s chance it will be enough for kite tomorrow.  I think this morning picked up kind of late and some kites went out.

             

            Best regards,

             

            Chris Lee.

             

          • Gear Daddy LLC
            Wind did come on about 8 I got out first and played for 30-40 mins. My foot was starting to suffer from an injury caused by one of our female kiters, Darn
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 5, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Re: [BSA] Where is the wind? Wind did come on about 8

              I got out first and played for 30-40 mins. My foot was starting to suffer from an injury caused by one of our female kiters, Darn girls(you know who you are) ;-b ....  But, I thought the wind was over anyway.

              All of a sudden some Mammatus clouds appeared over the downtown area and the wind came in “real nice” for another 25 mins. It was almost enough to sucker me out again, watching Garrett, JB, & BK ripping. But as soon as the clouds disappeared so did the wind.


              Weird weather...supposedly Friday we are going to hit a record low Daytime temp and 1-3 inches of rain????? They are saying if this were a winter time storm we would be in for a doozy.  Might mean wind out East.

              Don’t know when I’m leaving town, now it maybe Sunday??? If so I‘ll be ready to play.

              For the moment the weather station is online. Dan Bond help me discover that the CMOS battery is probably dead and the Laptop was losing time every time the screen went to sleep. This time lose was causing internet connection issues, hence no updates.  I still need to get a new battery in unit, but have not been able to find a “BR1225” Battery yet. It is a $2 battery.  As soon as one is acquired, Dan or myself will swap it out. I hope this was the last issue...we will find out soon enough.

              Eddy



              From: "Lee, Chris (CEFS - BOISE)" <c.lee@...>
              Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:28:09 +0000
              To: Kiter - Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...>, Snowkiteidaho <snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: Boise Sailors <BoiseSailors@...>, "idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com" <idahokiteboarding@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [BSA] Where is the wind?

              Jason asked:
              Good winds... and speaking of wind.... Chris.... When will it come back?

              I’m it’s not a matter of when but it’s where…
               
              So, if you can clear your Friday schedule and don’t mind the drive, it will be (should be) blowing at the Three Mile.  If you really want to catch all the wind, it will more than likely start blowing late Thursday through pretty much all day Friday.  You can also look at what Temira’s said here <http://thegorgeismygym.com/?p=203> .
               
              My guess is it will be strong enough for kite on Sat and Sun there also.
               
              I’m planning to head out early Friday to catch the wind there and then probably head to Hood River for the weekend.
               
              Sadly for morning wind, it’s probably be messed up for a while – probably until Tue/Wed at the least.  There’s chance it will be enough for kite tomorrow.  I think this morning picked up kind of late and some kites went out.
               

              Best regards,
               
              Chris Lee.
               

              --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
              This message is via your subscription to the Google Groups
               "Boise Sailors Association" group.
               To post: BoiseSailors@...
               To unsubscribe: BoiseSailors-unsubscribe@...
               Group stuff: http://groups.google.com/group/BoiseSailors
               Sailing stuff: http://fortboise.org/windsurfing/
              -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---


            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.