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Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

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  • tony williams
    Wow, That is one long post, Sorry ,I did not take the time to read it all but I am sure it has some good points. I do hope you mentioned this though. Rider
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 12 1:55 PM
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      Wow, That is one long post,
      Sorry ,I did not take the time to read it all but I am sure it has some good points.
      I do hope you mentioned this though.
      Rider coming in to land has right of way over those going out!
      Old rule and even the windsurfers mentioned it to me this morning as they witnessed me trying to land just as Eddy self launched.
      All worked out ok but if eddy could have waited 30 more seconds, I could have landed the kite in the ususal spot behind him.  Then he could have backed up and launched or even had me help him launch.  I know he likes to self launch but sometimes it goes bad and the kite falls back or flips over and launches other direction.
      Any way like I said it worked out this time.
      Hope you had fun as the wind was good at 7:05 when I got on the water and seemed to peak at 7:30 but sure did drop off around 8:00

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
      To: Snowkiteidaho <snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:41:44 PM
      Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

      This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
       
      The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
       
      RANT-ON:
      Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
      - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
      - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
      - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
      - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
      - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
      - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
      - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
      - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
      RANT-OFF:
       
      Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
       
      The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
       
      1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
       
      2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
       
      3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
       
      4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
       
      5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
       
      6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
       
      7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
       
      8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
       
      Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
       
      Jon
       
       

    • Eddy
      Tony, Sorry, my kite was already in the hot launch position and i did not see you until it was going. Had I seen you I would have waited but alas it was too
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 12 2:03 PM
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        Tony,

        Sorry, my kite was already in the hot launch position and i did not
        see you until it was going. Had I seen you I would have waited but
        alas it was too late.

        one option would have been for you to turn about and re-initiate your
        approach.


        --- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, tony williams
        <tonyswilliams@...> wrote:
        >
        > Wow, That is one long post,
        > Sorry ,I did not take the time to read it all but I am sure it has
        some good points.
        > I do hope you mentioned this though.
        > Rider coming in to land has right of way over those going out!
        > Old rule and even the windsurfers mentioned it to me this morning as
        they witnessed me trying to land just as Eddy self launched.
        > All worked out ok but if eddy could have waited 30 more seconds, I
        could have landed the kite in the ususal spot behind him. Then he
        could have backed up and launched or even had me help him launch. I
        know he likes to self launch but sometimes it goes bad and the kite
        falls back or flips over and launches other direction.
        > Any way like I said it worked out this time.
        > Hope you had fun as the wind was good at 7:05 when I got on the
        water and seemed to peak at 7:30 but sure did drop off around 8:00
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
        > To: Snowkiteidaho <snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:41:44 PM
        > Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get
        out to it; time for rules??
        >
        >
        > This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long
        time. Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after
        10:30AM. Decent wind once you got to it. The launch zone had the
        biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind
        line went way up the channel and stayed. Not only was there a big
        wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely
        southerly and swirly from coming off the hills. Pretty tough getting
        out in no wind. Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we
        got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as
        others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
        >
        > The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers,
        post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd. I think it's getting near
        the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the
        launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and
        tempers.
        >
        > RANT-ON:
        > Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to
        wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to
        go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of
        getting out?
        > - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me,
        you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you
        yelled. You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
        > - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself
        had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally
        blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the
        air??? You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of
        there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you
        drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff? The advice you were
        yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience,
        and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you
        think? If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been
        back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your
        brains and yell at anyone in front of you. You were only thinking
        about yourself.
        > - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area
        TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you. In fact, far from yelling they
        halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks,
        Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
        > - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the
        small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to
        nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and
        arriving. That crowding made launching much more difficult and less
        safe for the crowd that was there.
        > - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left
        two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and
        making it tough for everyone else. That whole setup approach of yours
        was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
        > - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your
        impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are
        terrible examples of what NOT to do. That stuff was unacceptable.
        That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real
        unsafe situations.
        > - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if
        you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or
        that make conditions far less safe. Your business endeavors have
        lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they
        better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and
        efficiently use our spot.
        > - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of
        promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find
        another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the
        boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
        > RANT-OFF:
        >
        > Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped
        us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad
        hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure. I certainly
        forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you
        are....but please be more considerate in the future.
        >
        > The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended
        to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.
        Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these. If
        you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it
        resolved. Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need
        them. Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to
        wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile
        back". Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and
        posted for all to see and remember.
        >
        > 1) Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up
        on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down
        after you launch. (I think all of us do this now).
        >
        > 2) Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out
        your kite and lines and pumping. If you come out and pump your kite
        up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and
        ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines
        consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had
        your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you
        finish setup. Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer
        to being ready to go out. We need to minimize the time that kites sit
        unattended on our small beach taking up space. Lucky Peak is cool in
        the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to
        pump your kite with your wetsuit on. If you overheat in the cold
        mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a
        discount).
        >
        > 3) Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped
        before or after line layout? Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
        >
        > 4) Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can
        only go out on one. If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to
        setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission &
        support. If they don't grant it, don't do it. If you get permission
        for multiple kites, NEST THEM. If you don't nest them, and others
        arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can
        deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner
        is on the water or up getting dressed). A fully dressed & geared up
        kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended
        kites/lines. You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite
        is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved. You shouldn't
        have left it there in the first place.
        >
        > 5) When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the
        embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at
        the base of the embankment. This prevents an outgoing kiter from
        snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar. It will
        also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns)
        preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps
        forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
        >
        > 6) Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most
        lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out. If
        at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines. If you're going to lay
        yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines
        are already on the ground. Actually, if you are dressed when doing
        setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected,
        and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
        >
        > 7) One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a
        time. Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the
        air at launch time. A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a
        disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the
        falling kite uncontrollable.
        >
        > 8) BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS. GIVE HELP WHEN
        NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and
        is holding things up. DON'T BE A JERK. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT
        TO BE TREATED. BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
        >
        > Please feel free to add your suggested rules. I'll be happy to
        collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage
        if we think we need that. Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting
        to the point that these will be needed.
        >
        > Jon
        >
        >
        >
      • Jason Brickner
        Hello Jon, Great morning all in all. I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year. Does anyone still have them? I
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 12 2:11 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Jon,
           
          Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
           
          Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
           
          Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
           
          Just my two cents worth.
           
          Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
           
          -Jason


          From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
          Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
          To: Snowkiteidaho
          Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

          This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
           
          The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
           
          RANT-ON:
          Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
          - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
          - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
          - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
          - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
          - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
          - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
          - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
          - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
          RANT-OFF:
           
          Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
           
          The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
           
          1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
           
          2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
           
          3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
           
          4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
           
          5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
           
          6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
           
          7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
           
          8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
           
          Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
           
          Jon
           
           

        • Gear Daddy LLC
          Jason, Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD... I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 12 2:45 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Jason,

            Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

            Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

            Eddy



            On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


            Hello Jon,
             
            Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
             
            Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
             
            Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
             
            Just my two cents worth.
             
            Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
             
            -Jason


            From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
            To: Snowkiteidaho
            Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


            This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
             
            The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
             
            RANT-ON:
            Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
            - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
            - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
            - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
            - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
            - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
            - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
            - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
            - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
            RANT-OFF:
             
            Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
             
            The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
             
            1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
             
            2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
             
            3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
             
            4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
             
            5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
             
            6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
             
            7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
             
            8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
             
            Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
             
            Jon
             
             



            Gear Daddy LLC
            (208) 863-6966




          • Jason Brickner
            Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes. Give it a week. I d love to see those pictures. Sorry to heat about the camera. Doesn t seem
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 12 4:39 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
               
              -Jason


              From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
              To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

              Jason,


              Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

              Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

              Eddy



              On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


              Hello Jon,
               
              Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
               
              Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
               
              Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
               
              Just my two cents worth.
               
              Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
               
              -Jason


              From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
              To: Snowkiteidaho
              Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


              This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
               
              The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
               
              RANT-ON:
              Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
              - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
              - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
              - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
              - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
              - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
              - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
              - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
              - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
              RANT-OFF:
               
              Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
               
              The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
               
              1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
               
              2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
               
              3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
               
              4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
               
              5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
               
              6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
               
              7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
               
              8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
               
              Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
               
              Jon
               
               



              Gear Daddy LLC
              (208) 863-6966




            • Jon Bolt
              Eddie... Takes big character to respond as you did. Hats off. Sorry about your camera; hope it works. I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 12 4:41 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Eddie...
                Takes big character to respond as you did.  Hats off.  Sorry about your camera; hope it works.
                 
                I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.  Just because there is enough wind to hold one aloft, that absolutely does NOT mean there is enough wind to body drag or do anything useful.  PL's just about won't luff...they'll stick in the sky when inflatables will fall...but that doesn't mean there's enough wind to ride or drag or do anything useful.  I've been using them for 6 years and I know their behavior way better than anyone around here including you.    When you can't fly an inflatable because there's so little wind it luffs, and a PL still sticks in the sky, if the inflatable surely didn't have enough to drag a kiter, why would the PL have enough???  I know my gear and you sell and use completely different stuff.
                 
                Second, when the wind line is a half mile out and the wind hole is so huge, spending minutes attempting to body drag out to rideable wind just prolongs your exposure to the hole and its squirrely conditions, and is a certain recipe to have your kite fall somewhere along the journey out...just as yours did.  My experience there is you need to have at least enough juice so that you can get on your board quick keeping the lines with at least a little tension and get out of there.  If you don't have enough juice to keep tension, and go out and fiddle around trying to drag out, the longer you drag the more risk of failure.  You need to minimize duration of exposure to the screwy conditions.  If diving the kite is likely to stall it, you likely don't have enough wind to body drag either.  Better to wait for a puff rather than try something senseless and drop your kite and block the area for a good long time.  When you were hollering at me my kite was falling out of the sky DOWNWIND as you could see it stalling big and falling back over the beach.  I had to really pump and finesse it just to keep it up.  That didn't happen because there was plenty of wind to body drag.  Maybe your yelling produced the air that got it to go back up, so thanks for that !  Unfortunately, I didn't have a tractor 17m like Jason or an aircraft carrier deck to ride like Chris or Steve.  Those might have made getting out more doable but in those conditions at that instant, I don't think there was enough juice to do much with anything.
                 
                Third, as far as holding the kite overhead at Barclay, in those scant winds I'm not going to hold it at the side of the window over water and lose lift when the wind dies and have it sink into the water and then hold up the whole launch area...just as happened to you in your first attempt.  And look at your explanation: "The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head."  Sounds like you preferred to fly yours overhead too but couldn't, so let's not make excuses about the hollering being a safety concern due to flying it overhead.  If my kite is a design that behaves safely and manageably when overhead at Barclay, I'm not going to do stupid things with it just so people with a completely different kite design won't be tempted to do what I do. 
                 
                #1) I disagee with "body drag away from beach".  It should say "get going fast and get away from the beach as fast as possible...whichever way works safest and best under the conditions.
                 
                #2 & #3)  If you pump your kite and setup lines AFTER you're dressed and ready, there should be no need to rewind your lines onto your bar and leave your kite and bar on the beach.  You're ready to go.  After finishing connecting, got to your bar and get launched and get out.
                 
                #8) OK, we'll leave out the JERK
                 
                Admirable response to the feedback.  Thanks.  As I always try, I'll do my best not to constipate the launch area.  Today was pretty unusual.
                 
                Jon

                 
                On 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:

                Well said, a bit long winded, your rant is understood.  Like I said before, in my last email, I'm sorry I did not mean to make you feel bad...It is was a matter of Safety. DO NOT FLY YOUR KITE OVER HEAD ON Barclay BEACH! If you do it, then everyone does it, and eventually someone gets hurt, and we are out of kiting at LP.

                 
                MY BAD: I went out on the wrong board and was coming back in when I dropped the kite the second time. The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head. If there was enough wind to get it over head I would have been Body Dragging. Everyone wants to put the board on at the beach and take off, it looks really kool, I know I do it too! We must stop doing this because it sets an Example that beginners will follow.

                 
                My 2 kites were somewhat nested with no lines in anyones way, at the back of the Beach. I did not lay my kite out in front of anyone. I will place my kites even further back as you suggested so they are not in the way.

                 
                Again, I apologize for yelling(raising my voice) but no-one should be flying their kite back and forth at BB waiting for better wind.  If there is enough wind to fly kite there is enough wind to Body Drag out, my second departure was on a 9m kite so there was enough wind. If you Body Drag out you reduce the risk of dropping your kite. Body Dragging sucks, but it works. Just accept it and other will too!

                 
                Karma got me back for yelling and made my Camera go swimming. So Bummed...it is in the oven drying out right now hopefully it is OK!

                 
                To your Rules:

                 
                Add to #1 Body drag away from BEACH

                 
                #2&3 pump kite & then layout lines, otherwise you have lines sitting on Beach waiting for something to connect to. Once lines are connected wind them back on bar so they don't sit in everyone else's path. I will gladly help anyone with technique on leaving lines attached to kite. It is way to easy and much safer!

                 
                #4 Leave unused kites at the back of the Beach, there is a ton of room off the sand launch area. Don't forget to weigh them down & have lines secured & Clear.

                 
                #5&6 Do not cross other lines unless you are launching... That is an Accident waiting to happen!!!!

                 
                #7 kiters in water should give right-of-way to kiters that are on beach with kite in air, otherwise help the water bound land kite first.

                 
                #8 Is good...but, Leave out the JERK part out, otherwise, I will never live this incident down.

                 

                 
                Eddy

                 

                On Aug 12, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                 
                This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                 
                The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                 
                RANT-ON:
                Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                RANT-OFF:
                 
                Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                 
                The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                 
                1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                 
                2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                 
                3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                 
                4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                 
                5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                 
                6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                 
                7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                 
                8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                 
                Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                 
                Jon
                 
                 

                 

                Gear Daddy LLC
                (208) 863-6966

                 

                 

                 


              • Jon Bolt
                Second that...my son dropped his ipod into the water and it quit working. Just let it sit for a week or two. Came back and it worked. Good luck...hope it
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 12 4:46 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Second that...my son dropped his ipod into the water and it quit working.  Just let it sit for a week or two.  Came back and it worked.
                   
                  Good luck...hope it wasn''t 'spensive camera.

                   
                  On 8/12/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:

                  Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                   
                  -Jason


                  From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                  To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                   

                  Jason,


                   
                  Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                   
                  Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                   
                  Eddy

                   

                   

                  On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                   
                  Hello Jon,
                   
                  Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                   
                  Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                   
                  Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                   
                  Just my two cents worth.
                   
                  Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                   
                  -Jason


                  From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt

                  Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                  To: Snowkiteidaho
                  Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                   

                   
                  This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                   
                  The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                   
                  RANT-ON:
                  Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                  - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                  - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                  - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                  - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                  - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                  - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                  - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                  - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                  RANT-OFF:
                   
                  Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                   
                  The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                   
                  1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                   
                  2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                   
                  3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                   
                  4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                   
                  5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                   
                  6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                   
                  7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                   
                  8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                   
                  Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                   
                  Jon
                   
                   

                   

                   


                  Gear Daddy LLC
                  (208) 863-6966

                   

                   

                   


                • Chrizzo
                  Wow, i wanna say something...... Hey thanks Jason for (from what i could see) for launching and landing nearly everyone today. You get the best team player
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 12 5:42 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Wow, i wanna say something......
                    Hey thanks Jason for (from what i could see) for launching and
                    landing nearly everyone today. You get the best team player award
                    today. And Jon Dammit its not an aircraft carrier. Jeeeeeez its the
                    Idaho special. So hey lets just walk away from this and have a
                    beer. So there were no pole surfers out there (hardly) lets not yell
                    at each other. As my ex used to say, be kind to one another. you
                    never know whos gonna land/launch your kite. Peace out
                    Eddy sorry about your fu*&in nice Cannon EOS. My thoughts and
                    prayers are with it. Shoulda taught it to swim....




                    --- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Bolt" <idakiteman@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Second that...my son dropped his ipod into the water and it quit
                    working.
                    > Just let it sit for a week or two. Came back and it worked.
                    >
                    > Good luck...hope it wasn''t 'spensive camera.
                    >
                    >
                    > On 8/12/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.
                    Give it
                    > > a week. I'd love to see those pictures. Sorry to heat about the
                    camera.
                    > > Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good
                    things.
                    > >
                    > > -Jason
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------
                    > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                    > > snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gear Daddy LLC
                    > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                    > > *To:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                    > > *Subject:* Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                    could get
                    > > out to it; time for rules??
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Jason,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD... I had some
                    wonderful
                    > > pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was
                    shooting on
                    > > internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are
                    there I'll
                    > > let you know.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Eddy
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hello Jon,
                    > >
                    > > Great morning all in all. I think we already hashed through the
                    use of the
                    > > beach on crowded mornings LAST year. Does anyone still have
                    them? I think
                    > > we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you
                    have
                    > > reiterated in your email. Someone should print these out and
                    give them to
                    > > anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings. I remember last year
                    we had NO
                    > > issues when everyone followed the guidelines. There were days we
                    had 6-7
                    > > kite laid out getting setup at the same time. Eddy obviously had
                    a busy
                    > > morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.
                    That's got
                    > > to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for
                    it. I miss
                    > > kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                    > >
                    > > Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back
                    corner got in
                    > > the way of people trying to get ready this morning. We were
                    crawling all
                    > > over each other. Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a
                    little
                    > > different and has different needs than everyone else's. When you
                    launch, it
                    > > can bring the beach to a standstill. Luckily this only takes you
                    a couple
                    > > minutes most times. I think the frustration this morning is that
                    I could
                    > > barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.
                    Obviously you had
                    > > nothing up there. It was clear the way the kite was falling
                    outta the
                    > > sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't
                    tell you I
                    > > was getting impatient too. I always feel for me, the best thing
                    to do is
                    > > get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH. Half the time I
                    body drag
                    > > with my board to better wind. Other times when it's strong
                    enough, I drag
                    > > clear of the dock and head out on the board. When it's crowded,
                    I will
                    > > probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of
                    the docks.
                    > > That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an
                    issue.
                    > > You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag
                    out like us.
                    > > I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember. Get dressed
                    ready to
                    > > go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach. Lay your board at
                    the shore.
                    > > Pump up your kite in the far corner. Lay out your lines.
                    Connect lines.
                    > > Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the
                    water and
                    > > off the beach!
                    > >
                    > > Just my two cents worth.
                    > >
                    > > Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning. Yeeee
                    Hawwwww!
                    > >
                    > > -Jason
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------
                    > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteida
                    <snowkiteida>
                    > > ho@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Bolt
                    > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                    > > *To:* Snowkiteidaho
                    > > *Subject:* [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                    could get out
                    > > to it; time for rules??
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long
                    time.
                    > > Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after
                    10:30AM.
                    > > Decent wind once you got to it. The launch zone had the biggest
                    longest
                    > > lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way
                    up the
                    > > channel and stayed. Not only was there a big wind hole, but what
                    little
                    > > puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly
                    from coming
                    > > off the hills. Pretty tough getting out in no wind. Eddie was
                    the first
                    > > kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his
                    kite TWICE in
                    > > the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal
                    with his
                    > > troubles.
                    > >
                    > > The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson
                    takers,
                    > > post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd. I think it's getting
                    near the
                    > > time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the
                    launch zone as
                    > > efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                    > >
                    > > RANT-ON:
                    > > Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me
                    to wait
                    > > with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to
                    go the
                    > > instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of
                    getting out?
                    > > - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me,
                    you'd
                    > > have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.
                    You'd have
                    > > been really pissed if I did that to you.
                    > > - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you
                    yourself had
                    > > attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay
                    totally blocking
                    > > the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the
                    air??? You were
                    > > yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those
                    very same
                    > > measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and
                    block
                    > > the whole takeoff? The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem
                    too
                    > > credible, based on your own experience, and another approach
                    (like mine)
                    > > seemed worth considering don't you think? If you hadn't dropped
                    your kite
                    > > TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out
                    again nor in a
                    > > position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.
                    You were
                    > > only thinking about yourself.
                    > > - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area
                    TWICE, no
                    > > one yelled a peep at you. In fact, far from yelling they halted
                    their
                    > > launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks,
                    Jason....in case
                    > > Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                    > > - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in
                    the small
                    > > staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to
                    nest them to
                    > > leave reasonable room for the others that were there and
                    arriving. That
                    > > crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the
                    crowd that
                    > > was there.
                    > > - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just
                    left two
                    > > kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and
                    making it
                    > > tough for everyone else. That whole setup approach of yours was
                    incredibly
                    > > thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                    > > - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your
                    impatience,
                    > > yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible
                    examples of what
                    > > NOT to do. That stuff was unacceptable. That just leads to
                    tension and
                    > > careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                    > > - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind
                    if you
                    > > unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that
                    make
                    > > conditions far less safe. Your business endeavors have lower
                    priority than
                    > > our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not
                    compromise our
                    > > ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                    > > - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job
                    of
                    > > promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or
                    find
                    > > another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use
                    the
                    > > boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                    > > RANT-OFF:
                    > >
                    > > Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have
                    helped us all
                    > > immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad
                    hangover or huge
                    > > brainfart or some sort of seizure. I certainly forgive you
                    primarily
                    > > because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be
                    more
                    > > considerate in the future.
                    > >
                    > > The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules
                    intended to
                    > > make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.
                    Please
                    > > feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these. If you
                    disagree
                    > > with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.
                    Sadly the
                    > > growing traffic makes it look like we need them. Probably
                    better to get
                    > > these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to
                    say "gee, we
                    > > should have done this awhile back". Once we agree on these, we
                    may need to
                    > > get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember.
                    > >
                    > > 1) Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick
                    it up on
                    > > the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it
                    down after
                    > > you launch. (I think all of us do this now).
                    > >
                    > > 2) Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out
                    your kite
                    > > and lines and pumping. If you come out and pump your kite up and
                    layout 100
                    > > feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and
                    bullshit a little
                    > > as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the
                    beach for a
                    > > longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just
                    launch and
                    > > go the moment you finish setup. Unattended kites/lines can
                    interfere with
                    > > others closer to being ready to go out. We need to minimize the
                    time that
                    > > kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space. Lucky
                    Peak is cool
                    > > in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from
                    having to
                    > > pump your kite with your wetsuit on. If you overheat in the cold
                    > > mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you
                    a
                    > > discount).
                    > >
                    > > 3) Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be
                    pumped before
                    > > or after line layout? Any advantages to one sequence or the
                    other?
                    > >
                    > > 4) Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can
                    only go
                    > > out on one. If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to
                    setup
                    > > multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission &
                    support. If
                    > > they don't grant it, don't do it. If you get permission for
                    multiple kites,
                    > > NEST THEM. If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see
                    unattended
                    > > kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move
                    unattended kites
                    > > (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting
                    > > dressed). A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup
                    has "choice of
                    > > beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines. You cannot hold
                    others
                    > > responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky
                    beach when
                    > > it was moved. You shouldn't have left it there in the first
                    place.
                    > >
                    > > 5) When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the
                    embankment
                    > > below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the
                    base of the
                    > > embankment. This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines
                    of other
                    > > kites or kicking & snagging a bar. It will also allow room for
                    self
                    > > launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching
                    kite from
                    > > snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our
                    squirrelly
                    > > winds.
                    > >
                    > > 6) Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most
                    lines have
                    > > to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out. If at all
                    possible,
                    > > avoid layering of kite lines. If you're going to lay yours on
                    top of
                    > > another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already
                    on the
                    > > ground. Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you
                    should be able
                    > > to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should
                    > > minimize any need to layer lines.
                    > >
                    > > 7) One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a
                    time. Wind
                    > > is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at
                    launch
                    > > time. A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster
                    if an
                    > > outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling
                    kite
                    > > uncontrollable.
                    > >
                    > > 8) BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS. GIVE HELP WHEN
                    NEEDED or
                    > > coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is
                    holding things
                    > > up. DON'T BE A JERK. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE
                    TREATED. BE SAFE
                    > > AND EFFICIENT.
                    > >
                    > > Please feel free to add your suggested rules. I'll be happy to
                    collect
                    > > them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if
                    we think we
                    > > need that. Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the
                    point that
                    > > these will be needed.
                    > >
                    > > Jon
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Gear Daddy LLC
                    > > (208) 863-6966
                    > > geardaddyllc@...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Kay Walst6on
                    Hey Eddy, Speaking of pictures....do you have the pictures of Scott.  Can we get them? Thanks! Kay ... From: Gear Daddy LLC Subject:
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 12 6:07 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Eddy,
                      Speaking of pictures....do you have the pictures of Scott.  Can we get them?
                      Thanks!
                      Kay

                      --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:
                      From: Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...>
                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??
                      To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 3:45 PM

                      Jason,

                      Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                      Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                      Eddy



                      On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                      Hello Jon,
                       
                      Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                       
                      Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                       
                      Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                       
                      Just my two cents worth.
                       
                      Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                       
                      -Jason


                      From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                      To: Snowkiteidaho
                      Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                      This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                       
                      The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                       
                      RANT-ON:
                      Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                      - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                      - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                      - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                      - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                      - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                      - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                      - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                      - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                      RANT-OFF:
                       
                      Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                       
                      The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                       
                      1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                       
                      2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                       
                      3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                       
                      4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                       
                      5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                       
                      6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                       
                      7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                       
                      8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                       
                      Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                       
                      Jon
                       
                       



                      Gear Daddy LLC
                      (208) 863-6966





                    • Jon Bolt
                      I agree...I m having a beer now....i ll welcome having more later with any/all the Boise kiters...and I promise not to RANT ...and OK Chrizzo, so it s an Idaho
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 12 6:07 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I agree...I'm having a beer now....i'll welcome having more later with any/all the Boise kiters...and I promise not to RANT
                         
                        ...and OK Chrizzo, so it's an Idaho Heavy Cruiser, not a carrier...
                         
                        JB
                         


                         
                        On 8/12/08, Chrizzo <philprealestate@...> wrote:

                        Wow, i wanna say something......
                        Hey thanks Jason for (from what i could see) for launching and
                        landing nearly everyone today. You get the best team player award
                        today. And Jon Dammit its not an aircraft carrier. Jeeeeeez its the
                        Idaho special. So hey lets just walk away from this and have a
                        beer. So there were no pole surfers out there (hardly) lets not yell
                        at each other. As my ex used to say, be kind to one another. you
                        never know whos gonna land/launch your kite. Peace out
                        Eddy sorry about your fu*&in nice Cannon EOS. My thoughts and
                        prayers are with it. Shoulda taught it to swim....

                        --- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Bolt" <idakiteman@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Second that...my son dropped his ipod into the water and it quit
                        working.
                        > Just let it sit for a week or two. Came back and it worked.
                        >
                        > Good luck...hope it wasn''t 'spensive camera.
                        >
                        >

                        > On 8/12/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.
                        Give it
                        > > a week. I'd love to see those pictures. Sorry to heat about the
                        camera.
                        > > Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good
                        things.
                        > >
                        > > -Jason
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------
                        > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                        > > snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gear Daddy LLC
                        > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                        > > *To:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                        > > *Subject:* Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                        could get
                        > > out to it; time for rules??
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jason,
                        > >
                        > > Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD... I had some
                        wonderful
                        > > pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was
                        shooting on
                        > > internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are
                        there I'll
                        > > let you know.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Eddy
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hello Jon,
                        > >
                        > > Great morning all in all. I think we already hashed through the
                        use of the
                        > > beach on crowded mornings LAST year. Does anyone still have
                        them? I think
                        > > we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you
                        have
                        > > reiterated in your email. Someone should print these out and
                        give them to
                        > > anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings. I remember last year
                        we had NO
                        > > issues when everyone followed the guidelines. There were days we
                        had 6-7
                        > > kite laid out getting setup at the same time. Eddy obviously had
                        a busy
                        > > morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.
                        That's got
                        > > to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for
                        it. I miss
                        > > kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                        > >
                        > > Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back
                        corner got in
                        > > the way of people trying to get ready this morning. We were
                        crawling all
                        > > over each other. Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a
                        little
                        > > different and has different needs than everyone else's. When you
                        launch, it
                        > > can bring the beach to a standstill. Luckily this only takes you
                        a couple
                        > > minutes most times. I think the frustration this morning is that
                        I could
                        > > barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.
                        Obviously you had
                        > > nothing up there. It was clear the way the kite was falling
                        outta the
                        > > sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't
                        tell you I
                        > > was getting impatient too. I always feel for me, the best thing
                        to do is
                        > > get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH. Half the time I
                        body drag
                        > > with my board to better wind. Other times when it's strong
                        enough, I drag
                        > > clear of the dock and head out on the board. When it's crowded,
                        I will
                        > > probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of
                        the docks.
                        > > That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an
                        issue.
                        > > You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag
                        out like us.
                        > > I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                        > >
                        > > Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember. Get dressed
                        ready to
                        > > go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach. Lay your board at
                        the shore.
                        > > Pump up your kite in the far corner. Lay out your lines.
                        Connect lines.
                        > > Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the
                        water and
                        > > off the beach!
                        > >
                        > > Just my two cents worth.
                        > >
                        > > Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning. Yeeee
                        Hawwwww!
                        > >
                        > > -Jason
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------
                        > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteida
                        <snowkiteida>

                        > > ho@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Bolt
                        > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                        > > *To:* Snowkiteidaho
                        > > *Subject:* [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                        could get out
                        > > to it; time for rules??
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long
                        time.
                        > > Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after
                        10:30AM.
                        > > Decent wind once you got to it. The launch zone had the biggest
                        longest
                        > > lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way
                        up the
                        > > channel and stayed. Not only was there a big wind hole, but what
                        little
                        > > puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly
                        from coming
                        > > off the hills. Pretty tough getting out in no wind. Eddie was
                        the first
                        > > kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his
                        kite TWICE in
                        > > the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal
                        with his
                        > > troubles.
                        > >
                        > > The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson
                        takers,
                        > > post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd. I think it's getting
                        near the
                        > > time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the
                        launch zone as
                        > > efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                        > >
                        > > RANT-ON:
                        > > Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me
                        to wait
                        > > with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to
                        go the
                        > > instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of
                        getting out?
                        > > - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me,
                        you'd
                        > > have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.
                        You'd have
                        > > been really pissed if I did that to you.
                        > > - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you
                        yourself had
                        > > attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay
                        totally blocking
                        > > the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the
                        air??? You were
                        > > yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those
                        very same
                        > > measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and
                        block
                        > > the whole takeoff? The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem
                        too
                        > > credible, based on your own experience, and another approach
                        (like mine)
                        > > seemed worth considering don't you think? If you hadn't dropped
                        your kite
                        > > TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out
                        again nor in a
                        > > position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.
                        You were
                        > > only thinking about yourself.
                        > > - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area
                        TWICE, no
                        > > one yelled a peep at you. In fact, far from yelling they halted
                        their
                        > > launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks,
                        Jason....in case
                        > > Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                        > > - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in
                        the small
                        > > staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to
                        nest them to
                        > > leave reasonable room for the others that were there and
                        arriving. That
                        > > crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the
                        crowd that
                        > > was there.
                        > > - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just
                        left two
                        > > kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and
                        making it
                        > > tough for everyone else. That whole setup approach of yours was
                        incredibly
                        > > thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                        > > - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your
                        impatience,
                        > > yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible
                        examples of what
                        > > NOT to do. That stuff was unacceptable. That just leads to
                        tension and
                        > > careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                        > > - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind
                        if you
                        > > unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that
                        make
                        > > conditions far less safe. Your business endeavors have lower
                        priority than
                        > > our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not
                        compromise our
                        > > ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                        > > - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job
                        of
                        > > promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or
                        find
                        > > another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use
                        the
                        > > boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                        > > RANT-OFF:
                        > >
                        > > Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have
                        helped us all
                        > > immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad
                        hangover or huge
                        > > brainfart or some sort of seizure. I certainly forgive you
                        primarily
                        > > because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be
                        more
                        > > considerate in the future.
                        > >
                        > > The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules
                        intended to
                        > > make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.
                        Please
                        > > feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these. If you
                        disagree
                        > > with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.
                        Sadly the
                        > > growing traffic makes it look like we need them. Probably
                        better to get
                        > > these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to
                        say "gee, we
                        > > should have done this awhile back". Once we agree on these, we
                        may need to
                        > > get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember.
                        > >
                        > > 1) Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick
                        it up on
                        > > the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it
                        down after
                        > > you launch. (I think all of us do this now).
                        > >
                        > > 2) Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out
                        your kite
                        > > and lines and pumping. If you come out and pump your kite up and
                        layout 100
                        > > feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and
                        bullshit a little
                        > > as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the
                        beach for a
                        > > longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just
                        launch and
                        > > go the moment you finish setup. Unattended kites/lines can
                        interfere with
                        > > others closer to being ready to go out. We need to minimize the
                        time that
                        > > kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space. Lucky
                        Peak is cool
                        > > in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from
                        having to
                        > > pump your kite with your wetsuit on. If you overheat in the cold
                        > > mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you
                        a
                        > > discount).
                        > >
                        > > 3) Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be
                        pumped before
                        > > or after line layout? Any advantages to one sequence or the
                        other?
                        > >
                        > > 4) Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can
                        only go
                        > > out on one. If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to
                        setup
                        > > multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission &
                        support. If
                        > > they don't grant it, don't do it. If you get permission for
                        multiple kites,
                        > > NEST THEM. If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see
                        unattended
                        > > kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move
                        unattended kites
                        > > (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting
                        > > dressed). A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup
                        has "choice of
                        > > beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines. You cannot hold
                        others
                        > > responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky
                        beach when
                        > > it was moved. You shouldn't have left it there in the first
                        place.
                        > >
                        > > 5) When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the
                        embankment
                        > > below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the
                        base of the
                        > > embankment. This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines
                        of other
                        > > kites or kicking & snagging a bar. It will also allow room for
                        self
                        > > launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching
                        kite from
                        > > snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our
                        squirrelly
                        > > winds.
                        > >
                        > > 6) Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most
                        lines have
                        > > to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out. If at all
                        possible,
                        > > avoid layering of kite lines. If you're going to lay yours on
                        top of
                        > > another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already
                        on the
                        > > ground. Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you
                        should be able
                        > > to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should
                        > > minimize any need to layer lines.
                        > >
                        > > 7) One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a
                        time. Wind
                        > > is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at
                        launch
                        > > time. A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster
                        if an
                        > > outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling
                        kite
                        > > uncontrollable.
                        > >
                        > > 8) BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS. GIVE HELP WHEN
                        NEEDED or
                        > > coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is
                        holding things
                        > > up. DON'T BE A JERK. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE
                        TREATED. BE SAFE
                        > > AND EFFICIENT.
                        > >
                        > > Please feel free to add your suggested rules. I'll be happy to
                        collect
                        > > them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if
                        we think we
                        > > need that. Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the
                        point that
                        > > these will be needed.
                        > >
                        > > Jon
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Gear Daddy LLC
                        > > (208) 863-6966
                        > > geardaddyllc@...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >


                      • Ryan Wait
                        it s a light cruiser, made to destroy light winds. a few rules are needed for sure. In my mind one of the most important safety issues is newbies launching
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 12 6:26 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          it's a light cruiser, made to destroy light winds.
                           
                          a few rules are needed for sure. In my mind one of the most important safety issues is newbies launching from the beach. I think it is very important that new kiters are informed of just how hard and dangerous it is to launch there. Just becuase they have had a session where they stayed up wind, does not mean they are ready to use barclay.
                           
                          1. before anybody should consider launching from barclay they must have had at least 10 sessions where they launched and landed at the same place.  
                          2. at least 40 hrs of fly time.
                          3. Dont launch anyone that looks unprepared. ask them about there skill level.
                          4. new kiters must be able to fly their kite with one hand.( this is key when putting on the board.)
                           
                          i dont want to curse us, but with some many newbie's using the spot, there WILL be accidents. the only real future our sport has at lucky peak is if a major change happens and we finally get a real beach. so enjoy it while it lasts.
                           
                          one thing to remember about teaching lessons at lucky peak is that it is illegal. so Eddie you better do what Jon says or else......
                           
                          Cheers,
                          Ryan

                           


                          To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                          From: idakiteman@...
                          Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:07:56 -0600
                          Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] Re: ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                          I agree...I'm having a beer now....i'll welcome having more later with any/all the Boise kiters...and I promise not to RANT
                           
                          ...and OK Chrizzo, so it's an Idaho Heavy Cruiser, not a carrier...
                           
                          JB
                           


                           
                          On 8/12/08, Chrizzo <philprealestate@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                          Wow, i wanna say something... ...
                          Hey thanks Jason for (from what i could see) for launching and
                          landing nearly everyone today. You get the best team player award
                          today. And Jon Dammit its not an aircraft carrier. Jeeeeeez its the
                          Idaho special. So hey lets just walk away from this and have a
                          beer. So there were no pole surfers out there (hardly) lets not yell
                          at each other. As my ex used to say, be kind to one another. you
                          never know whos gonna land/launch your kite. Peace out
                          Eddy sorry about your fu*&in nice Cannon EOS. My thoughts and
                          prayers are with it. Shoulda taught it to swim....

                          --- In snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com, "Jon Bolt" <idakiteman@. ..>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Second that...my son dropped his ipod into the water and it quit
                          working.
                          > Just let it sit for a week or two. Came back and it worked.
                          >
                          > Good luck...hope it wasn''t 'spensive camera.
                          >
                          >

                          > On 8/12/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.
                          Give it
                          > > a week. I'd love to see those pictures. Sorry to heat about the
                          camera.
                          > > Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good
                          things.
                          > >
                          > > -Jason
                          > >
                          > > ------------ --------- ---------
                          > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:
                          > > snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Gear Daddy LLC
                          > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                          > > *To:* snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > *Subject:* Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                          could get
                          > > out to it; time for rules??
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Jason,
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD... I had some
                          wonderful
                          > > pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was
                          shooting on
                          > > internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are
                          there I'll
                          > > let you know.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Eddy
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hello Jon,
                          > >
                          > > Great morning all in all. I think we already hashed through the
                          use of the
                          > > beach on crowded mornings LAST year. Does anyone still have
                          them? I think
                          > > we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you
                          have
                          > > reiterated in your email. Someone should print these out and
                          give them to
                          > > anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings. I remember last year
                          we had NO
                          > > issues when everyone followed the guidelines. There were days we
                          had 6-7
                          > > kite laid out getting setup at the same time. Eddy obviously had
                          a busy
                          > > morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.
                          That's got
                          > > to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for
                          it. I miss
                          > > kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                          > >
                          > > Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back
                          corner got in
                          > > the way of people trying to get ready this morning. We were
                          crawling all
                          > > over each other. Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a
                          little
                          > > different and has different needs than everyone else's. When you
                          launch, it
                          > > can bring the beach to a standstill. Luckily this only takes you
                          a couple
                          > > minutes most times. I think the frustration this morning is that
                          I could
                          > > barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.
                          Obviously you had
                          > > nothing up there. It was clear the way the kite was falling
                          outta the
                          > > sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't
                          tell you I
                          > > was getting impatient too. I always feel for me, the best thing
                          to do is
                          > > get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH. Half the time I
                          body drag
                          > > with my board to better wind. Other times when it's strong
                          enough, I drag
                          > > clear of the dock and head out on the board. When it's crowded,
                          I will
                          > > probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of
                          the docks.
                          > > That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an
                          issue.
                          > > You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag
                          out like us.
                          > > I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                          > >
                          > > Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember. Get dressed
                          ready to
                          > > go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach. Lay your board at
                          the shore.
                          > > Pump up your kite in the far corner. Lay out your lines.
                          Connect lines.
                          > > Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the
                          water and
                          > > off the beach!
                          > >
                          > > Just my two cents worth.
                          > >
                          > > Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning. Yeeee
                          Hawwwww!
                          > >
                          > > -Jason
                          > >
                          > > ------------ --------- ---------
                          > > *From:* snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteida
                          <snowkiteida>

                          > > ho@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Bolt
                          > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                          > > *To:* Snowkiteidaho
                          > > *Subject:* [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you
                          could get out
                          > > to it; time for rules??
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long
                          time.
                          > > Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after
                          10:30AM.
                          > > Decent wind once you got to it. The launch zone had the biggest
                          longest
                          > > lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way
                          up the
                          > > channel and stayed. Not only was there a big wind hole, but what
                          little
                          > > puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly
                          from coming
                          > > off the hills. Pretty tough getting out in no wind. Eddie was
                          the first
                          > > kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his
                          kite TWICE in
                          > > the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal
                          with his
                          > > troubles.
                          > >
                          > > The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson
                          takers,
                          > > post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd. I think it's getting
                          near the
                          > > time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the
                          launch zone as
                          > > efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                          > >
                          > > RANT-ON:
                          > > Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me
                          to wait
                          > > with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to
                          go the
                          > > instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of
                          getting out?
                          > > - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me,
                          you'd
                          > > have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.
                          You'd have
                          > > been really pissed if I did that to you.
                          > > - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you
                          yourself had
                          > > attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay
                          totally blocking
                          > > the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the
                          air??? You were
                          > > yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those
                          very same
                          > > measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and
                          block
                          > > the whole takeoff? The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem
                          too
                          > > credible, based on your own experience, and another approach
                          (like mine)
                          > > seemed worth considering don't you think? If you hadn't dropped
                          your kite
                          > > TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out
                          again nor in a
                          > > position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.
                          You were
                          > > only thinking about yourself.
                          > > - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area
                          TWICE, no
                          > > one yelled a peep at you. In fact, far from yelling they halted
                          their
                          > > launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks,
                          Jason....in case
                          > > Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                          > > - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in
                          the small
                          > > staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to
                          nest them to
                          > > leave reasonable room for the others that were there and
                          arriving. That
                          > > crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the
                          crowd that
                          > > was there.
                          > > - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just
                          left two
                          > > kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and
                          making it
                          > > tough for everyone else. That whole setup approach of yours was
                          incredibly
                          > > thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                          > > - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your
                          impatience,
                          > > yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible
                          examples of what
                          > > NOT to do. That stuff was unacceptable. That just leads to
                          tension and
                          > > careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                          > > - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind
                          if you
                          > > unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that
                          make
                          > > conditions far less safe. Your business endeavors have lower
                          priority than
                          > > our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not
                          compromise our
                          > > ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                          > > - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job
                          of
                          > > promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or
                          find
                          > > another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use
                          the
                          > > boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                          > > RANT-OFF:
                          > >
                          > > Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have
                          helped us all
                          > > immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad
                          hangover or huge
                          > > brainfart or some sort of seizure. I certainly forgive you
                          primarily
                          > > because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be
                          more
                          > > considerate in the future.
                          > >
                          > > The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules
                          intended to
                          > > make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.
                          Please
                          > > feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these. If you
                          disagree
                          > > with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.
                          Sadly the
                          > > growing traffic makes it look like we need them. Probably
                          better to get
                          > > these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to
                          say "gee, we
                          > > should have done this awhile back". Once we agree on these, we
                          may need to
                          > > get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember.
                          > >
                          > > 1) Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick
                          it up on
                          > > the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it
                          down after
                          > > you launch. (I think all of us do this now).
                          > >
                          > > 2) Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out
                          your kite
                          > > and lines and pumping. If you come out and pump your kite up and
                          layout 100
                          > > feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and
                          bullshit a little
                          > > as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the
                          beach for a
                          > > longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just
                          launch and
                          > > go the moment you finish setup. Unattended kites/lines can
                          interfere with
                          > > others closer to being ready to go out. We need to minimize the
                          time that
                          > > kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space. Lucky
                          Peak is cool
                          > > in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from
                          having to
                          > > pump your kite with your wetsuit on. If you overheat in the cold
                          > > mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you
                          a
                          > > discount).
                          > >
                          > > 3) Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be
                          pumped before
                          > > or after line layout? Any advantages to one sequence or the
                          other?
                          > >
                          > > 4) Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can
                          only go
                          > > out on one. If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to
                          setup
                          > > multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission &
                          support. If
                          > > they don't grant it, don't do it. If you get permission for
                          multiple kites,
                          > > NEST THEM. If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see
                          unattended
                          > > kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move
                          unattended kites
                          > > (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting
                          > > dressed). A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup
                          has "choice of
                          > > beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines. You cannot hold
                          others
                          > > responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky
                          beach when
                          > > it was moved. You shouldn't have left it there in the first
                          place.
                          > >
                          > > 5) When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the
                          embankment
                          > > below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the
                          base of the
                          > > embankment. This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines
                          of other
                          > > kites or kicking & snagging a bar. It will also allow room for
                          self
                          > > launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching
                          kite from
                          > > snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our
                          squirrelly
                          > > winds.
                          > >
                          > > 6) Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most
                          lines have
                          > > to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out. If at all
                          possible,
                          > > avoid layering of kite lines. If you're going to lay yours on
                          top of
                          > > another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already
                          on the
                          > > ground. Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you
                          should be able
                          > > to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should
                          > > minimize any need to layer lines.
                          > >
                          > > 7) One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a
                          time. Wind
                          > > is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at
                          launch
                          > > time. A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster
                          if an
                          > > outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling
                          kite
                          > > uncontrollable.
                          > >
                          > > 8) BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS. GIVE HELP WHEN
                          NEEDED or
                          > > coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is
                          holding things
                          > > up. DON'T BE A JERK. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE
                          TREATED. BE SAFE
                          > > AND EFFICIENT.
                          > >
                          > > Please feel free to add your suggested rules. I'll be happy to
                          collect
                          > > them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if
                          we think we
                          > > need that. Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the
                          point that
                          > > these will be needed.
                          > >
                          > > Jon
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Gear Daddy LLC
                          > > (208) 863-6966
                          > > geardaddyllc@ ...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >







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                        • Gear Daddy LLC
                          It was the rescue of scott that sent my camera swimming. Fortunately scott found the camera in his kite underwater and his quick reactions helped get it dry. I
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 13 5:22 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It was the rescue of scott that sent my camera swimming. Fortunately scott found the camera in his kite underwater and his quick reactions helped get it dry. 

                            I was rushing around trying to do to many things at once.

                            If you want pictures they are burned on my computer. Like I keep telling everoney bring me something to burn them on.



                            On Aug 12, 2008, at 7:07 PM, Kay Walst6on wrote:


                            Hey Eddy,
                            Speaking of pictures.... do you have the pictures of Scott.  Can we get them?
                            Thanks!
                            Kay

                            --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@ gmail.com>wrote:
                            From: Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@ gmail.com>
                            Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??
                            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 3:45 PM

                            Jason,

                            Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                            Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                            Eddy



                            On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                            Hello Jon,
                             
                            Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                             
                            Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                             
                            Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                             
                            Just my two cents worth.
                             
                            Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                             
                            -Jason


                            From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                            To: Snowkiteidaho
                            Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                            This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                             
                            The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                             
                            RANT-ON:
                            Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                            - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                            - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                            - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                            - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                            - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                            - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                            - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                            - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                            RANT-OFF:
                             
                            Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                             
                            The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                             
                            1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                             
                            2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                             
                            3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                             
                            4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                             
                            5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                             
                            6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                             
                            7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                             
                            8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                             
                            Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                             
                            Jon
                             
                             



                            Gear Daddy LLC
                            (208) 863-6966







                            Gear Daddy LLC
                            (208) 863-6966




                          • William McMaster
                            I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 13 9:16 AM
                            • 0 Attachment

                              I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive....Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                               
                              Billy McMaster





                              To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                              From: jasonbrickner@...
                              Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                              Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                              Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                               
                              -Jason


                              From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                              To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                              Jason,


                              Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                              Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                              Eddy



                              On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                              Hello Jon,
                               
                              Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                               
                              Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                               
                              Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                               
                              Just my two cents worth.
                               
                              Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                               
                              -Jason


                              From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                              To: Snowkiteidaho
                              Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                              This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                               
                              The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                               
                              RANT-ON:
                              Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                              - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                              - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                              - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                              - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                              - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                              - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                              - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                              - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                              RANT-OFF:
                               
                              Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                               
                              The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                               
                              1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                               
                              2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                               
                              3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                               
                              4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                               
                              5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                               
                              6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                               
                              7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                               
                              8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                               
                              Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                               
                              Jon
                               
                               



                              Gear Daddy LLC
                              (208) 863-6966








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                            • Gear Daddy LLC
                              I just want to get this out in the forum and cleared up b/c I was asked many questions this morning about what happened. If you are tired of hearing about this
                              Message 14 of 29 , Aug 13 11:47 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I just want to get this out in the forum and cleared up b/c I was asked many questions this morning about what happened. If you are tired of hearing about this please delete now. 

                                I personally think common sense & good practices eliminate any need for Rules!     Anyway, I break Someone's Rule everyday, and love it!

                                The entire issue here is Safety!!! I assure you I have no issues with anyone, all I want is for everyone to have fun and set a good example. I yell because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I personally don't hear myself yelling, but I do raise my voice to be heard! If I offend you by raising my voice, know that you are not the first. Most of my outburst are momentary, I'm sure there is a drug out there that would make me a better, nicer person. I don't care what gear you fly, but as long as it is flying, it will behave similar & a foil kite is one of the best at low wind conditions (it stays in air when nothing else will, that is why they are great for snowkiting, "ok that was an unnecessary stab").
                                 
                                The particular instance that created this rant is that Jon wanted the wind to be strong enough to get on his board near the beach without Body Dragging (which is exactly what he did when the wind filled back in). Instead of body dragging out to the wind like most everyone else does, he flew the kite high and over head back & forth waiting for better wind.  In the mean time, there were several people waiting in line for Jon to get out of the way. Two kites were in launch mode and there was "enough" wind, just not enough for Jon to beach start.  I was one of the kiters in line, lost my patience, and I raised my voice (yelling) to Body Drag out, which should be standard protocol! This was not a personal attack, I'm sorry if you feel it was! I was not the only one getting impatient, just the only one to say something. There was enough wind for Chris and myself to launch kites, we just could not because there is only enough room for one kite at a time to fly at Barclay. 

                                Even if a "PRO" kiter is at Barclay by themselves it is a bad idea to lolly-gag around waiting for better wind. Get the kite up and get out as quickly as possible or land the kite.

                                Every-time, I see a kite fly high @ Barclay I'm going to yell (or somebody should yell) to get it down. A high kite at Barclay is usually a sign of a kiter that is unaware of where their kite is or they are use to smoother winds (this instant may or may not have been the case, does not really matter). Regardless, safety first, and "I SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY ONE PREACHING THIS!!!"  Every accident (FORTUNATELY MINOR) to date that has happened there is because a kite is flown over head and luffed, unless the lines were hooked up incorrectly.  When a kite is parked on the side of the wind window and luffs it falls right back into the wind and powers up again. As long as kite stays over water you get yanked into the water by kite. When a kite flown overhead luffs it falls until the lines tension and there is no telling where the kite will fall or direction of eventual yank. We all know that the wind is gusty and swirly at Barclay, so realize that a kite over head can luff really, really bad and that is when the "SHIT" hits the fan. 

                                I also have been saying that the safest most efficient start at Barclay is a solid body drag technique, some may disagree. But if you do it and get at least 50' out then you increase the margin of Safety. By trying to put a board on at the beach most people need the kite over head (as stated earlier this is bad). Once you are out 50-100 feet, do what you want, but I guarantee that if you body drag out past the furthest Buoy (especially in light winds) your success rate at getting out increases and amazingly you will start very far upwind. Also, you will not have to contend with flying your kite over the knob(hill) if you try getting on your board immediately, and go downwind. The Knob is another place that disaster will eventually strike, but hopefully it is just to the kite. 

                                If I accomplish one thing at Barclay to promote safety it would be to get everyone to preach Low kite and Body Dragging out. Please set a good example by body dragging as far from the dock as possible, if you can not body drag maybe you should find a new place to kite, because Barclay is an advanced site, and body dragging is a basic beginner skill. If you want help mastering Body Dragging skills I will be there. Some beginners will get "intermediate syndrome" (I have it all the time!!!) and think they should be launching like the better riders, therefor if better riders Body Drag a little ways out so will the beginners. Body dragging is too Easy, If you are not good at it go practice. I've been in the throat of the Dam spillway and body dragged all the way back to Barclay on one pass in light winds.

                                LASTLY:   Jon is flying a PL kite and has special launch needs and I think we all can accommodate him. But, Jon, you are in the minority with your kite needs, everyone else sets their LEI kites up and runs there lines differently then you need to. I'm not saying you have no rights just consider that you really need to be considerate of the masses. While I was on the water, I noticed that your kite was laid out for an extensive period of time this morning blocking other's launch again, maybe there was no wind again, I don't know. There is a reason that PL kites are not everywhere and LEI kites are, I'm not saying anything bad about them but they are different.  So when making your rules consider that you should follow them, and adjust your habits to match the majority.

                                All it will take is one person to get smashed into the dock, shelter, rest room, and an Ambulance is called to Barclay, We can all Kiss Barclay Launch goodbye.

                                Be Safe/Have Fun!
                                Over and Out,
                                Eddy






                                On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                Eddie...
                                Takes big character to respond as you did.  Hats off.  Sorry about your camera; hope it works.
                                 
                                I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.  Just because there is enough wind to hold one aloft, that absolutely does NOT mean there is enough wind to body drag or do anything useful.  PL's just about won't luff...they'll stick in the sky when inflatables will fall...but that doesn't mean there's enough wind to ride or drag or do anything useful.  I've been using them for 6 years and I know their behavior way better than anyone around here including you.    When you can't fly an inflatable because there's so little wind it luffs, and a PL still sticks in the sky, if the inflatable surely didn't have enough to drag a kiter, why would the PL have enough???  I know my gear and you sell and use completely different stuff.
                                 
                                Second, when the wind line is a half mile out and the wind hole is so huge, spending minutes attempting to body drag out to rideable wind just prolongs your exposure to the hole and its squirrely conditions, and is a certain recipe to have your kite fall somewhere along the journey out...just as yours did.  My experience there is you need to have at least enough juice so that you can get on your board quick keeping the lines with at least a little tension and get out of there.  If you don't have enough juice to keep tension, and go out and fiddle around trying to drag out, the longer you drag the more risk of failure.  You need to minimize duration of exposure to the screwy conditions.  If diving the kite is likely to stall it, you likely don't have enough wind to body drag either.  Better to wait for a puff rather than try something senseless and drop your kite and block the area for a good long time.  When you were hollering at me my kite was falling out of the sky DOWNWIND as you could see it stalling big and falling back over the beach.  I had to really pump and finesse it just to keep it up.  That didn't happen because there was plenty of wind to body drag.  Maybe your yelling produced the air that got it to go back up, so thanks for that !  Unfortunately, I didn't have a tractor 17m like Jason or an aircraft carrier deck to ride like Chris or Steve.  Those might have made getting out more doable but in those conditions at that instant, I don't think there was enough juice to do much with anything.
                                 
                                Third, as far as holding the kite overhead at Barclay, in those scant winds I'm not going to hold it at the side of the window over water and lose lift when the wind dies and have it sink into the water and then hold up the whole launch area...just as happened to you in your first attempt.  And look at your explanation: "The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head."  Sounds like you preferred to fly yours overhead too but couldn't, so let's not make excuses about the hollering being a safety concern due to flying it overhead.  If my kite is a design that behaves safely and manageably when overhead at Barclay, I'm not going to do stupid things with it just so people with a completely different kite design won't be tempted to do what I do. 
                                 
                                #1) I disagee with "body drag away from beach".  It should say "get going fast and get away from the beach as fast as possible...whicheve r way works safest and best under the conditions.
                                 
                                #2 & #3)  If you pump your kite and setup lines AFTER you're dressed and ready, there should be no need to rewind your lines onto your bar and leave your kite and bar on the beach.  You're ready to go.  After finishing connecting, got to your bar and get launched and get out.
                                 
                                #8) OK, we'll leave out the JERK
                                 
                                Admirable response to the feedback.  Thanks.  As I always try, I'll do my best not to constipate the launch area.  Today was pretty unusual.
                                 
                                Jon

                                 
                                On 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                Well said, a bit long winded, your rant is understood.  Like I said before, in my last email, I'm sorry I did not mean to make you feel bad...It is was a matter of Safety. DO NOT FLY YOUR KITE OVER HEAD ON Barclay BEACH! If you do it, then everyone does it, and eventually someone gets hurt, and we are out of kiting at LP.

                                 
                                MY BAD: I went out on the wrong board and was coming back in when I dropped the kite the second time. The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head. If there was enough wind to get it over head I would have been Body Dragging. Everyone wants to put the board on at the beach and take off, it looks really kool, I know I do it too! We must stop doing this because it sets an Example that beginners will follow.

                                 
                                My 2 kites were somewhat nested with no lines in anyones way, at the back of the Beach. I did not lay my kite out in front of anyone. I will place my kites even further back as you suggested so they are not in the way.

                                 
                                Again, I apologize for yelling(raising my voice) but no-one should be flying their kite back and forth at BB waiting for better wind.  If there is enough wind to fly kite there is enough wind to Body Drag out, my second departure was on a 9m kite so there was enough wind. If you Body Drag out you reduce the risk of dropping your kite. Body Dragging sucks, but it works. Just accept it and other will too!

                                 
                                Karma got me back for yelling and made my Camera go swimming. So Bummed...it is in the oven drying out right now hopefully it is OK!

                                 
                                To your Rules:

                                 
                                Add to #1 Body drag away from BEACH

                                 
                                #2&3 pump kite & then layout lines, otherwise you have lines sitting on Beach waiting for something to connect to. Once lines are connected wind them back on bar so they don't sit in everyone else's path. I will gladly help anyone with technique on leaving lines attached to kite. It is way to easy and much safer!

                                 
                                #4 Leave unused kites at the back of the Beach, there is a ton of room off the sand launch area. Don't forget to weigh them down & have lines secured & Clear.

                                 
                                #5&6 Do not cross other lines unless you are launching... That is an Accident waiting to happen!!!!

                                 
                                #7 kiters in water should give right-of-way to kiters that are on beach with kite in air, otherwise help the water bound land kite first.

                                 
                                #8 Is good...but, Leave out the JERK part out, otherwise, I will never live this incident down.

                                 

                                 
                                Eddy

                                 

                                On Aug 12, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                 
                                This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                 
                                The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                 
                                RANT-ON:
                                Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                RANT-OFF:
                                 
                                Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                 
                                The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                 
                                1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                 
                                2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                 
                                3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                 
                                4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                 
                                5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                 
                                6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                 
                                7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                 
                                8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                 
                                Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                 
                                Jon
                                 
                                 

                                 

                                Gear Daddy LLC
                                (208) 863-6966

                                 

                                 

                                 






                                Gear Daddy LLC
                                (208) 863-6966




                              • Jon Bolt
                                Hi Billy, haven t met you yet I don t believe.... You re right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too. In fact Eddie has
                                Message 15 of 29 , Aug 13 2:34 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                   
                                  You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                   
                                  Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                   
                                  There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not-for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                   
                                  Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                   
                                  Jon Bolt
                                   
                                   
                                  On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@...> wrote:


                                  I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive....Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                   
                                  Billy McMaster





                                  To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: jasonbrickner@...
                                  Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                  Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                  Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                   
                                  -Jason


                                  From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                  To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                   

                                  Jason,


                                   
                                  Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                   
                                  Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                   
                                  Eddy

                                   

                                   

                                  On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                   
                                  Hello Jon,
                                   
                                  Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                   
                                  Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                   
                                  Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                   
                                  Just my two cents worth.
                                   
                                  Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                   
                                  -Jason


                                  From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                  To: Snowkiteidaho
                                  Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                   

                                   
                                  This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                   
                                  The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                   
                                  RANT-ON:
                                  Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                  - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                  - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                  - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                  - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                  - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                  - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                  - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                  - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                  RANT-OFF:
                                   
                                  Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                   
                                  The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                   
                                  1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                   
                                  2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                   
                                  3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                   
                                  4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                   
                                  5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                   
                                  6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                   
                                  7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                   
                                  8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                   
                                  Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                   
                                  Jon
                                   
                                   

                                   

                                   


                                  Gear Daddy LLC
                                  (208) 863-6966

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   



                                   


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                                • 1boardhead@msn.com
                                  My god, give it a rest already! From: Jon Bolt Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34 PM To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho]
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Aug 13 2:47 PM
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                                    My god, give it a rest already!
                                     
                                     

                                    From: Jon Bolt
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                    Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                     
                                    You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                     
                                    Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                     
                                    There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                     
                                    Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                     
                                    Jon Bolt
                                     
                                     
                                    On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                    I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                     
                                    Billy McMaster





                                    To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                    From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                    Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                    Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                    Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                     
                                    -Jason


                                    From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                    Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                    To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                     

                                    Jason,


                                     
                                    Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                     
                                    Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                     
                                    Eddy

                                     

                                     

                                    On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                     
                                    Hello Jon,
                                     
                                    Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                     
                                    Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                     
                                    Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                     
                                    Just my two cents worth.
                                     
                                    Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                     
                                    -Jason


                                    From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                    Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                    To: Snowkiteidaho
                                    Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                     

                                     
                                    This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                     
                                    The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                     
                                    RANT-ON:
                                    Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                    - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                    - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                    - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                    - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                    - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                    - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                    - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                    - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                    RANT-OFF:
                                     
                                    Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                     
                                    The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                     
                                    1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                     
                                    2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                     
                                    3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                     
                                    4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                     
                                    5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                     
                                    6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                     
                                    7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                     
                                    8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                     
                                    Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                     
                                    Jon
                                     
                                     

                                     

                                     


                                    Gear Daddy LLC
                                    (208) 863-6966

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     



                                     


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                                  • tony williams
                                    Hey Jon Can you start your posts with a summary then go into the bulk after that so we with little attentionspans can retain our sanity and still know what you
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Aug 13 3:00 PM
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                                      Hey Jon
                                      Can you start your posts with a summary then go into the bulk after that so we with little attentionspans can retain our sanity and still know what you are going on about.  Now don't go agro on me or spit the binky. I just think, like all literary works, it could use a 2nd or 3rd draft to cut some of the unnecessay wording
                                      Like  the following could be shortened from:
                                       
                                      "Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the BLA BLA BLA. If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly BLA BLA BLA stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before)"
                                       
                                      to: You weren't there, we were. Eddy was impatient and it showed in his actions and instructions to another kiter launching.
                                       
                                      119 words reduced to 20
                                       

                                       
                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
                                      To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34:02 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                      Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                       
                                      You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                       
                                      Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                       
                                      There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                       
                                      Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                       
                                      Jon Bolt
                                       
                                       
                                      On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                      I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                       
                                      Billy McMaster





                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                      From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                      Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                      Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                      Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                       
                                      -Jason


                                      From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                       

                                      Jason,


                                       
                                      Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                       
                                      Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                       
                                      Eddy

                                       

                                       

                                      On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                       
                                      Hello Jon,
                                       
                                      Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                       
                                      Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                       
                                      Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                       
                                      Just my two cents worth.
                                       
                                      Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                       
                                      -Jason


                                      From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                      To: Snowkiteidaho
                                      Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                       

                                       
                                      This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                       
                                      The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                       
                                      RANT-ON:
                                      Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                      - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                      - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                      - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                      - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                      - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                      - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                      - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                      - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                      RANT-OFF:
                                       
                                      Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                       
                                      The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                       
                                      1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                       
                                      2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                       
                                      3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                       
                                      4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                       
                                      5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                       
                                      6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                       
                                      7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                       
                                      8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                       
                                      Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                       
                                      Jon
                                       
                                       

                                       

                                       


                                      Gear Daddy LLC
                                      (208) 863-6966

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       



                                       


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                                    • Jason Brickner
                                      Wow!... You said alot there Jon. Just a couple things I want to say. 1. The dangers at the Barclay Bay launch are VERY REAL. I know first hand as I was
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Aug 13 3:07 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Wow!... You said alot there Jon.
                                         
                                        Just a couple things I want to say.
                                         
                                        1.  The dangers at the Barclay Bay launch are VERY REAL.  I know first hand as I was launched backwards uphill and slammed into the 4" square steel posts holding up the awning about the centrally located picknick table.  Yes, slammed harness hook first into that pole.  The hook smashed into my body so hard that I thought I broke my pelvis and couldn't walk for 4-5 minutes.  This is after I was kiting for 3 years, could go upwind, jump, transition, etc.  It was all my fault as I was in a hurry to get out on the water.  I swapped the front t and back lines of one side of my kite.  And if you think you can manage a problem at that launch, you may be wrong.  I had maybe 1/2 second to pull my release.  Needless to say I didn't.  The problem with that spot is that there is absolutely NO ROOM FOR ERROR.  In other open spaces, you have a little more time.  At Barclay Bay you have NO time.  And as an extra added bonus, you have many DEADLY obstacles waiting to stop you (at least eight steel posts, a 10ft tall concrete outhouse, a razor sharp tin roof, a parking lot surrounded by concrete barricade 2 ft high, a BBQ, an immovable hard plastic dock, etc.  For my first three years of kiteboarding, I NEVER launched from Barcaly bay. I spent an extra 25minutes hiking around to "Brickner Beach/Caviani Bay".  When I did eventually start launching from Barclay bay, I dumped my kite into the docks, weeds, sage brush, a fishing boat waiting at the docks.  There is nothing user friendly about it.  I think over time I have learned a couple tricks about the launch that help me.
                                         
                                        2. There is a gray area between body dragging out into the lake and getting up on your board 2 feet from the beach.  This is what works for me.  ABSOLUTELY body drag out past the new plastic dock.  It doesn't make any sense trying to get on your board when a immovable hard plastic dock that is 20 feet downwind of you.  Once clear of that dock, I like to drag out another 100feet past the Barclay Bay boat docks just in case bad things happen.  Then I won't be heading downwind into those docks or even worse, into people launching their boats (pretty rare but I've done that too).  At this point I get on the board and get out.  The added bonus is that the wind is usually better out there.  There are some case where the wind is really swirling around and as you are body dragging out, your kite will shoot way upwind and then the wind will shift and your kite will stall.  It happens all the time in lighter winds.  That is why you always hear people on the beach yelling at the person body dragging out to 'KEEP YOUR KITE HIGH IDIOT"  It is to give you some altitude to recover the kite incase it luffs/stalls out of the sky.  If the wind is shifting around I am more apt to get up on the board sooner than dragging out any further.  No sense playing around until you get bit.  Steve was a case in point this morning.  Once he got clear of the docks, he should have got on the board and got out.  As Eddy mentioned last year.  If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN.  You have to beat the kite upwind.  Lots of times you'll see me swimming upwind more than I am body dragging/coasting out.  I don't want my kite to luff.
                                         
                                        3.  Who can find the Barlcay bay launch guidelines from last year?  They were complete and worked well.  We are not dealing with anything different than we were dealing with last year at this time.
                                         
                                        4.  Eddy and Jon.... I like you both and hate to see you guys taking little jabs at each other.  Go buy each other a beer and talk about what an awesome place we live.
                                         
                                        It's all good amigos....
                                         
                                        Hey Eddy, if you have a couple photos of me, how about emailing me one as a preview.  I'm looking for a bragging photo to keep in my wallet.... Hey is that Carley Simon I hear?
                                         
                                        -Jason


                                        From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34 PM
                                        To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                        Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                         
                                        You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                         
                                        Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                         
                                        There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                         
                                        Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                         
                                        Jon Bolt
                                         
                                         
                                        On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                        I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                         
                                        Billy McMaster





                                        To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                        From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                        Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                        Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                        Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                         
                                        -Jason


                                        From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                        Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                        To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                         

                                        Jason,


                                         
                                        Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                         
                                        Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                         
                                        Eddy

                                         

                                         

                                        On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                         
                                        Hello Jon,
                                         
                                        Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                         
                                        Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                         
                                        Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                         
                                        Just my two cents worth.
                                         
                                        Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                         
                                        -Jason


                                        From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                        Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                        To: Snowkiteidaho
                                        Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                         

                                         
                                        This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                         
                                        The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                         
                                        RANT-ON:
                                        Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                        - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                        - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                        - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                        - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                        - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                        - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                        - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                        - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                        RANT-OFF:
                                         
                                        Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                         
                                        The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                         
                                        1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                         
                                        2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                         
                                        3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                         
                                        4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                         
                                        5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                         
                                        6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                         
                                        7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                         
                                        8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                         
                                        Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                         
                                        Jon
                                         
                                         

                                         

                                         


                                        Gear Daddy LLC
                                        (208) 863-6966

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         



                                         


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                                      • Jon Bolt
                                        Point well taken, Tony...no binky spit !!! I ll try to do better next time. What s agro mean? Can t say if I ve gone agro or not....
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Aug 13 3:27 PM
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                                          Point well taken, Tony...no binky spit !!!  I'll try to do better next time.
                                           
                                          What's "agro" mean?  Can't say if I've gone agro or not....
                                           

                                           
                                          On 8/13/08, tony williams <tonyswilliams@...> wrote:

                                          Hey Jon
                                          Can you start your posts with a summary then go into the bulk after that so we with little attentionspans can retain our sanity and still know what you are going on about.  Now don't go agro on me or spit the binky. I just think, like all literary works, it could use a 2nd or 3rd draft to cut some of the unnecessay wording
                                          Like  the following could be shortened from:
                                           
                                          "Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the BLA BLA BLA. If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly BLA BLA BLA stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before)"
                                           
                                          to: You weren't there, we were. Eddy was impatient and it showed in his actions and instructions to another kiter launching.
                                           
                                          119 words reduced to 20
                                           

                                           
                                          ----- Original Message ----
                                          From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
                                          To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34:02 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                          Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                           
                                          You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                           
                                          Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                           
                                          There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                           
                                          Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                           
                                          Jon Bolt
                                           
                                           
                                          On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                          I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                           
                                          Billy McMaster





                                          To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                          From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                          Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                          Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                          Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                           
                                          -Jason


                                          From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                          Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                          To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                           

                                          Jason,


                                           
                                          Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                           
                                          Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                           
                                          Eddy

                                           

                                           

                                          On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                           
                                          Hello Jon,
                                           
                                          Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                           
                                          Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                           
                                          Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                           
                                          Just my two cents worth.
                                           
                                          Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                           
                                          -Jason


                                          From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                          Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                          To: Snowkiteidaho
                                          Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                           

                                           
                                          This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                           
                                          The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                           
                                          RANT-ON:
                                          Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                          - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                          - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                          - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                          - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                          - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                          - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                          - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                          - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                          RANT-OFF:
                                           
                                          Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                           
                                          The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                           
                                          1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                           
                                          2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                           
                                          3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                           
                                          4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                           
                                          5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                           
                                          6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                           
                                          7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                           
                                          8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                           
                                          Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                           
                                          Jon
                                           
                                           

                                           

                                           


                                          Gear Daddy LLC
                                          (208) 863-6966

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                           



                                           


                                          Get more from your digital life. Find out how.




                                        • tony williams
                                          Agro stands for aggrivated or angry, as in  I m as agro as a cut snake, so stay out of my way . ... From: Jon Bolt To:
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 13 3:41 PM
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                                            Agro stands for aggrivated or angry, as in  " I'm as agro as a cut snake, so stay out of my way".

                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
                                            To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:27:07 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                            Point well taken, Tony...no binky spit !!!  I'll try to do better next time.
                                             
                                            What's "agro" mean?  Can't say if I've gone agro or not....
                                             

                                             
                                            On 8/13/08, tony williams <tonyswilliams@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                            Hey Jon
                                            Can you start your posts with a summary then go into the bulk after that so we with little attentionspans can retain our sanity and still know what you are going on about.  Now don't go agro on me or spit the binky. I just think, like all literary works, it could use a 2nd or 3rd draft to cut some of the unnecessay wording
                                            Like  the following could be shortened from:
                                             
                                            "Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the BLA BLA BLA. If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly BLA BLA BLA stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before)"
                                             
                                            to: You weren't there, we were. Eddy was impatient and it showed in his actions and instructions to another kiter launching.
                                             
                                            119 words reduced to 20
                                             

                                             
                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@gmail. com>
                                            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34:02 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                            Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                             
                                            You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                             
                                            Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                             
                                            There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                             
                                            Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                             
                                            Jon Bolt
                                             
                                             
                                            On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                            I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                             
                                            Billy McMaster





                                            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                            From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                            Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                            Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                            Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                             
                                            -Jason


                                            From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                            Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                             

                                            Jason,


                                             
                                            Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                             
                                            Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                             
                                            Eddy

                                             

                                             

                                            On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                             
                                            Hello Jon,
                                             
                                            Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                             
                                            Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                             
                                            Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                             
                                            Just my two cents worth.
                                             
                                            Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                             
                                            -Jason


                                            From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                            To: Snowkiteidaho
                                            Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                             

                                             
                                            This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                             
                                            The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                             
                                            RANT-ON:
                                            Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                            - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                            - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                            - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                            - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                            - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                            - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                            - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                            - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                            RANT-OFF:
                                             
                                            Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                             
                                            The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                             
                                            1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                             
                                            2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                             
                                            3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                             
                                            4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                             
                                            5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                             
                                            6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                             
                                            7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                             
                                            8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                             
                                            Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                             
                                            Jon
                                             
                                             

                                             

                                             


                                            Gear Daddy LLC
                                            (208) 863-6966

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             



                                             


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                                          • Jon Bolt
                                            questions re: If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Does sheet out mean push bar out (and sheet-in
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 13 3:59 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              questions re: " If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN."
                                              Does "sheet out" mean push bar out (and sheet-in mean pull bar in)?  If kite's shooting upwind and you sheet out (push bar out), kite will shoot upwind even faster.  Pulling the bar in (sheet in) pulls the kite back in the window and pulls the trailing edge of canopy "in" so top of canopy is less likely to find itself facing oncoming wind, causing line de-tension & luff.
                                               


                                               
                                              On 8/13/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:

                                              Wow!... You said alot there Jon.
                                               
                                              Just a couple things I want to say.
                                               
                                              1.  The dangers at the Barclay Bay launch are VERY REAL.  I know first hand as I was launched backwards uphill and slammed into the 4" square steel posts holding up the awning about the centrally located picknick table.  Yes, slammed harness hook first into that pole.  The hook smashed into my body so hard that I thought I broke my pelvis and couldn't walk for 4-5 minutes.  This is after I was kiting for 3 years, could go upwind, jump, transition, etc.  It was all my fault as I was in a hurry to get out on the water.  I swapped the front t and back lines of one side of my kite.  And if you think you can manage a problem at that launch, you may be wrong.  I had maybe 1/2 second to pull my release.  Needless to say I didn't.  The problem with that spot is that there is absolutely NO ROOM FOR ERROR.  In other open spaces, you have a little more time.  At Barclay Bay you have NO time.  And as an extra added bonus, you have many DEADLY obstacles waiting to stop you (at least eight steel posts, a 10ft tall concrete outhouse, a razor sharp tin roof, a parking lot surrounded by concrete barricade 2 ft high, a BBQ, an immovable hard plastic dock, etc.  For my first three years of kiteboarding, I NEVER launched from Barcaly bay. I spent an extra 25minutes hiking around to "Brickner Beach/Caviani Bay".  When I did eventually start launching from Barclay bay, I dumped my kite into the docks, weeds, sage brush, a fishing boat waiting at the docks.  There is nothing user friendly about it.  I think over time I have learned a couple tricks about the launch that help me.
                                               
                                              2. There is a gray area between body dragging out into the lake and getting up on your board 2 feet from the beach.  This is what works for me.  ABSOLUTELY body drag out past the new plastic dock.  It doesn't make any sense trying to get on your board when a immovable hard plastic dock that is 20 feet downwind of you.  Once clear of that dock, I like to drag out another 100feet past the Barclay Bay boat docks just in case bad things happen.  Then I won't be heading downwind into those docks or even worse, into people launching their boats (pretty rare but I've done that too).  At this point I get on the board and get out.  The added bonus is that the wind is usually better out there.  There are some case where the wind is really swirling around and as you are body dragging out, your kite will shoot way upwind and then the wind will shift and your kite will stall.  It happens all the time in lighter winds.  That is why you always hear people on the beach yelling at the person body dragging out to 'KEEP YOUR KITE HIGH IDIOT"  It is to give you some altitude to recover the kite incase it luffs/stalls out of the sky.  If the wind is shifting around I am more apt to get up on the board sooner than dragging out any further.  No sense playing around until you get bit.  Steve was a case in point this morning.  Once he got clear of the docks, he should have got on the board and got out.  As Eddy mentioned last year.  If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN.  You have to beat the kite upwind.  Lots of times you'll see me swimming upwind more than I am body dragging/coasting out.  I don't want my kite to luff.
                                               
                                              3.  Who can find the Barlcay bay launch guidelines from last year?  They were complete and worked well.  We are not dealing with anything different than we were dealing with last year at this time.
                                               
                                              4.  Eddy and Jon.... I like you both and hate to see you guys taking little jabs at each other.  Go buy each other a beer and talk about what an awesome place we live.
                                               
                                              It's all good amigos....
                                               
                                              Hey Eddy, if you have a couple photos of me, how about emailing me one as a preview.  I'm looking for a bragging photo to keep in my wallet.... Hey is that Carley Simon I hear?
                                               
                                              -Jason


                                              From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                              Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34 PM

                                              To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                               

                                              Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                               
                                              You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                               
                                              Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                               
                                              There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not-for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                               
                                              Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                               
                                              Jon Bolt
                                               
                                               
                                              On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@...> wrote:


                                              I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive....Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                               
                                              Billy McMaster





                                              To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: jasonbrickner@...
                                              Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                              Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                              Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                               
                                              -Jason


                                              From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                              To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                               

                                              Jason,


                                               
                                              Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                               
                                              Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                               
                                              Eddy

                                               

                                               

                                              On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                               
                                              Hello Jon,
                                               
                                              Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                               
                                              Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                               
                                              Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                               
                                              Just my two cents worth.
                                               
                                              Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                               
                                              -Jason


                                              From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                              To: Snowkiteidaho
                                              Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                               

                                               
                                              This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                               
                                              The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                               
                                              RANT-ON:
                                              Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                              - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                              - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                              - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                              - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                              - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                              - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                              - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                              - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                              RANT-OFF:
                                               
                                              Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                               
                                              The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                               
                                              1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                               
                                              2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                               
                                              3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                               
                                              4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                               
                                              5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                               
                                              6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                               
                                              7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                               
                                              8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                               
                                              Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                               
                                              Jon
                                               
                                               

                                               

                                               


                                              Gear Daddy LLC
                                              (208) 863-6966

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               



                                               


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                                            • Jason Brickner
                                              Hello Jon, You are 100% correct. I was incorrect. I can actually oversheet my kite to pull it WAY back in the window. However, when some of those Lucky
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 13 4:05 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hello Jon,
                                                 
                                                You are 100% correct.  I was incorrect.  I can actually oversheet my kite to pull it WAY back in the window.  However, when some of those "Lucky" peak gust come rolling through, you have no option than to sheet out a bit. 
                                                 
                                                Thanks,
                                                -Jason
                                                 
                                                 


                                                From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:00 PM
                                                To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                questions re: " If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN."
                                                Does "sheet out" mean push bar out (and sheet-in mean pull bar in)?  If kite's shooting upwind and you sheet out (push bar out), kite will shoot upwind even faster.  Pulling the bar in (sheet in) pulls the kite back in the window and pulls the trailing edge of canopy "in" so top of canopy is less likely to find itself facing oncoming wind, causing line de-tension & luff.
                                                 


                                                 
                                                On 8/13/08, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@ msn.com> wrote:

                                                Wow!... You said alot there Jon.
                                                 
                                                Just a couple things I want to say.
                                                 
                                                1.  The dangers at the Barclay Bay launch are VERY REAL.  I know first hand as I was launched backwards uphill and slammed into the 4" square steel posts holding up the awning about the centrally located picknick table.  Yes, slammed harness hook first into that pole.  The hook smashed into my body so hard that I thought I broke my pelvis and couldn't walk for 4-5 minutes.  This is after I was kiting for 3 years, could go upwind, jump, transition, etc.  It was all my fault as I was in a hurry to get out on the water.  I swapped the front t and back lines of one side of my kite.  And if you think you can manage a problem at that launch, you may be wrong.  I had maybe 1/2 second to pull my release.  Needless to say I didn't.  The problem with that spot is that there is absolutely NO ROOM FOR ERROR.  In other open spaces, you have a little more time.  At Barclay Bay you have NO time.  And as an extra added bonus, you have many DEADLY obstacles waiting to stop you (at least eight steel posts, a 10ft tall concrete outhouse, a razor sharp tin roof, a parking lot surrounded by concrete barricade 2 ft high, a BBQ, an immovable hard plastic dock, etc.  For my first three years of kiteboarding, I NEVER launched from Barcaly bay. I spent an extra 25minutes hiking around to "Brickner Beach/Caviani Bay".  When I did eventually start launching from Barclay bay, I dumped my kite into the docks, weeds, sage brush, a fishing boat waiting at the docks.  There is nothing user friendly about it.  I think over time I have learned a couple tricks about the launch that help me.
                                                 
                                                2. There is a gray area between body dragging out into the lake and getting up on your board 2 feet from the beach.  This is what works for me.  ABSOLUTELY body drag out past the new plastic dock.  It doesn't make any sense trying to get on your board when a immovable hard plastic dock that is 20 feet downwind of you.  Once clear of that dock, I like to drag out another 100feet past the Barclay Bay boat docks just in case bad things happen.  Then I won't be heading downwind into those docks or even worse, into people launching their boats (pretty rare but I've done that too).  At this point I get on the board and get out.  The added bonus is that the wind is usually better out there.  There are some case where the wind is really swirling around and as you are body dragging out, your kite will shoot way upwind and then the wind will shift and your kite will stall.  It happens all the time in lighter winds.  That is why you always hear people on the beach yelling at the person body dragging out to 'KEEP YOUR KITE HIGH IDIOT"  It is to give you some altitude to recover the kite incase it luffs/stalls out of the sky.  If the wind is shifting around I am more apt to get up on the board sooner than dragging out any further.  No sense playing around until you get bit.  Steve was a case in point this morning.  Once he got clear of the docks, he should have got on the board and got out.  As Eddy mentioned last year.  If your kite starts shooting up wind of you, sheet out and swim upwind AS FAST AS YOU CAN.  You have to beat the kite upwind.  Lots of times you'll see me swimming upwind more than I am body dragging/coasting out.  I don't want my kite to luff.
                                                 
                                                3.  Who can find the Barlcay bay launch guidelines from last year?  They were complete and worked well.  We are not dealing with anything different than we were dealing with last year at this time.
                                                 
                                                4.  Eddy and Jon.... I like you both and hate to see you guys taking little jabs at each other.  Go buy each other a beer and talk about what an awesome place we live.
                                                 
                                                It's all good amigos....
                                                 
                                                Hey Eddy, if you have a couple photos of me, how about emailing me one as a preview.  I'm looking for a bragging photo to keep in my wallet.... Hey is that Carley Simon I hear?
                                                 
                                                -Jason


                                                From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34 PM

                                                To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                 

                                                Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                                 
                                                You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                                 
                                                Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                                 
                                                There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive", and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                                 
                                                Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                                 
                                                Jon Bolt
                                                 
                                                 
                                                On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                                I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                                 
                                                Billy McMaster





                                                To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                                Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                                Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                                Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                                 
                                                -Jason


                                                From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                                Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                                To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                 

                                                Jason,


                                                 
                                                Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                                 
                                                Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                                 
                                                Eddy

                                                 

                                                 

                                                On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                                 
                                                Hello Jon,
                                                 
                                                Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                                 
                                                Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                                 
                                                Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                                 
                                                Just my two cents worth.
                                                 
                                                Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                                 
                                                -Jason


                                                From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                                Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                                To: Snowkiteidaho
                                                Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                 

                                                 
                                                This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                                 
                                                The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                                 
                                                RANT-ON:
                                                Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                                - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                                - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                                - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                                - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                                - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                                - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                                - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                                - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                                RANT-OFF:
                                                 
                                                Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                                 
                                                The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                                 
                                                1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                                 
                                                2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                                 
                                                3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                                 
                                                4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                                 
                                                5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                                 
                                                6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                                 
                                                7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                                 
                                                8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                                 
                                                Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                                 
                                                Jon
                                                 
                                                 

                                                 

                                                 


                                                Gear Daddy LLC
                                                (208) 863-6966

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 



                                                 


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                                              • Jon Bolt
                                                C mon Eddie, the issue isn t really safety at all is it.... All this hooey is just to cover a regrettable impulse because you were likely frustrated with your
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Aug 13 8:53 PM
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                                                  C'mon Eddie, the issue isn't really safety at all is it....  All this hooey is just to cover a regrettable impulse because you were likely frustrated with your previous problems that morning and then clearly impatient to get yourself out and didn't hesitate to badger others to get the result you wanted.  Stop the poppycock about safety and what's bad and good practice.  I guarantee you that with my kites, I'll occassionally have to again do what I did, and if you do what you did again, we'll have problems again.  So you decide if you want to stay in total denial and just make excuses or if you want to do something to try to prevent this in the future.  For my part, next time something like that happens, anyone is welcome to just say: "Jon, I can make it, can I go?"...I'll drop for anyone that does that and let them go.  But they better darn well make it out because one error and they blow their credibility and I won't extend that courtesy again to them.  Eddy, there are several other experienced kiters here now whose experience and judgment and composure in situations matches or exceeds your own and when you're on shore and another experienced pilot is dealing with a challenge, you need to trust them and be patient.  Golden rule man.  All I'm suggesting.
                                                   
                                                  And anyone this morning...please tell me if I was inconsiderate and held you up.  I'm trying to pay attention to avoiding that, as I'm sure you all are too. While I was setting up  I thought I helped launch anyone that wanted to go and was ready, but call me on it if I didn't.  Don't think Eddie would know cause he was a quarter mile away when I setup and has no real idea what actually happened..
                                                   
                                                  Jon
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  On 8/13/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:

                                                  I just want to get this out in the forum and cleared up b/c I was asked many questions this morning about what happened. If you are tired of hearing about this please delete now. 


                                                   
                                                  I personally think common sense & good practices eliminate any need for Rules!     Anyway, I break Someone's Rule everyday, and love it!

                                                   
                                                  The entire issue here is Safety!!! I assure you I have no issues with anyone, all I want is for everyone to have fun and set a good example. I yell because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I personally don't hear myself yelling, but I do raise my voice to be heard! If I offend you by raising my voice, know that you are not the first. Most of my outburst are momentary, I'm sure there is a drug out there that would make me a better, nicer person. I don't care what gear you fly, but as long as it is flying, it will behave similar & a foil kite is one of the best at low wind conditions (it stays in air when nothing else will, that is why they are great for snowkiting, "ok that was an unnecessary stab").
                                                   
                                                  The particular instance that created this rant is that Jon wanted the wind to be strong enough to get on his board near the beach without Body Dragging (which is exactly what he did when the wind filled back in). Instead of body dragging out to the wind like most everyone else does, he flew the kite high and over head back & forth waiting for better wind.  In the mean time, there were several people waiting in line for Jon to get out of the way. Two kites were in launch mode and there was "enough" wind, just not enough for Jon to beach start.  I was one of the kiters in line, lost my patience, and I raised my voice (yelling) to Body Drag out, which should be standard protocol! This was not a personal attack, I'm sorry if you feel it was! I was not the only one getting impatient, just the only one to say something. There was enough wind for Chris and myself to launch kites, we just could not because there is only enough room for one kite at a time to fly at Barclay. 

                                                   
                                                  Even if a "PRO" kiter is at Barclay by themselves it is a bad idea to lolly-gag around waiting for better wind. Get the kite up and get out as quickly as possible or land the kite.

                                                   
                                                  Every-time, I see a kite fly high @ Barclay I'm going to yell (or somebody should yell) to get it down. A high kite at Barclay is usually a sign of a kiter that is unaware of where their kite is or they are use to smoother winds (this instant may or may not have been the case, does not really matter). Regardless, safety first, and "I SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY ONE PREACHING THIS!!!"  Every accident (FORTUNATELY MINOR) to date that has happened there is because a kite is flown over head and luffed, unless the lines were hooked up incorrectly.  When a kite is parked on the side of the wind window and luffs it falls right back into the wind and powers up again. As long as kite stays over water you get yanked into the water by kite. When a kite flown overhead luffs it falls until the lines tension and there is no telling where the kite will fall or direction of eventual yank. We all know that the wind is gusty and swirly at Barclay, so realize that a kite over head can luff really, really bad and that is when the "SHIT" hits the fan. 

                                                   
                                                  I also have been saying that the safest most efficient start at Barclay is a solid body drag technique, some may disagree. But if you do it and get at least 50' out then you increase the margin of Safety. By trying to put a board on at the beach most people need the kite over head (as stated earlier this is bad). Once you are out 50-100 feet, do what you want, but I guarantee that if you body drag out past the furthest Buoy (especially in light winds) your success rate at getting out increases and amazingly you will start very far upwind. Also, you will not have to contend with flying your kite over the knob(hill) if you try getting on your board immediately, and go downwind. The Knob is another place that disaster will eventually strike, but hopefully it is just to the kite. 

                                                   
                                                  If I accomplish one thing at Barclay to promote safety it would be to get everyone to preach Low kite and Body Dragging out. Please set a good example by body dragging as far from the dock as possible, if you can not body drag maybe you should find a new place to kite, because Barclay is an advanced site, and body dragging is a basic beginner skill. If you want help mastering Body Dragging skills I will be there. Some beginners will get "intermediate syndrome" (I have it all the time!!!) and think they should be launching like the better riders, therefor if better riders Body Drag a little ways out so will the beginners. Body dragging is too Easy, If you are not good at it go practice. I've been in the throat of the Dam spillway and body dragged all the way back to Barclay on one pass in light winds.

                                                   
                                                  LASTLY:   Jon is flying a PL kite and has special launch needs and I think we all can accommodate him. But, Jon, you are in the minority with your kite needs, everyone else sets their LEI kites up and runs there lines differently then you need to. I'm not saying you have no rights just consider that you really need to be considerate of the masses. While I was on the water, I noticed that your kite was laid out for an extensive period of time this morning blocking other's launch again, maybe there was no wind again, I don't know. There is a reason that PL kites are not everywhere and LEI kites are, I'm not saying anything bad about them but they are different.  So when making your rules consider that you should follow them, and adjust your habits to match the majority.

                                                   
                                                  All it will take is one person to get smashed into the dock, shelter, rest room, and an Ambulance is called to Barclay, We can all Kiss Barclay Launch goodbye.

                                                   
                                                  Be Safe/Have Fun!
                                                  Over and Out,
                                                  Eddy

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   
                                                  On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                   
                                                  Eddie...
                                                  Takes big character to respond as you did.  Hats off.  Sorry about your camera; hope it works.
                                                   
                                                  I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.  Just because there is enough wind to hold one aloft, that absolutely does NOT mean there is enough wind to body drag or do anything useful.  PL's just about won't luff...they'll stick in the sky when inflatables will fall...but that doesn't mean there's enough wind to ride or drag or do anything useful.  I've been using them for 6 years and I know their behavior way better than anyone around here including you.    When you can't fly an inflatable because there's so little wind it luffs, and a PL still sticks in the sky, if the inflatable surely didn't have enough to drag a kiter, why would the PL have enough???  I know my gear and you sell and use completely different stuff.
                                                   
                                                  Second, when the wind line is a half mile out and the wind hole is so huge, spending minutes attempting to body drag out to rideable wind just prolongs your exposure to the hole and its squirrely conditions, and is a certain recipe to have your kite fall somewhere along the journey out...just as yours did.  My experience there is you need to have at least enough juice so that you can get on your board quick keeping the lines with at least a little tension and get out of there.  If you don't have enough juice to keep tension, and go out and fiddle around trying to drag out, the longer you drag the more risk of failure.  You need to minimize duration of exposure to the screwy conditions.  If diving the kite is likely to stall it, you likely don't have enough wind to body drag either.  Better to wait for a puff rather than try something senseless and drop your kite and block the area for a good long time.  When you were hollering at me my kite was falling out of the sky DOWNWIND as you could see it stalling big and falling back over the beach.  I had to really pump and finesse it just to keep it up.  That didn't happen because there was plenty of wind to body drag.  Maybe your yelling produced the air that got it to go back up, so thanks for that !  Unfortunately, I didn't have a tractor 17m like Jason or an aircraft carrier deck to ride like Chris or Steve.  Those might have made getting out more doable but in those conditions at that instant, I don't think there was enough juice to do much with anything.
                                                   
                                                  Third, as far as holding the kite overhead at Barclay, in those scant winds I'm not going to hold it at the side of the window over water and lose lift when the wind dies and have it sink into the water and then hold up the whole launch area...just as happened to you in your first attempt.  And look at your explanation: "The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head."  Sounds like you preferred to fly yours overhead too but couldn't, so let's not make excuses about the hollering being a safety concern due to flying it overhead.  If my kite is a design that behaves safely and manageably when overhead at Barclay, I'm not going to do stupid things with it just so people with a completely different kite design won't be tempted to do what I do. 
                                                   
                                                  #1) I disagee with "body drag away from beach".  It should say "get going fast and get away from the beach as fast as possible...whichever way works safest and best under the conditions.
                                                   
                                                  #2 & #3)  If you pump your kite and setup lines AFTER you're dressed and ready, there should be no need to rewind your lines onto your bar and leave your kite and bar on the beach.  You're ready to go.  After finishing connecting, got to your bar and get launched and get out.
                                                   
                                                  #8) OK, we'll leave out the JERK
                                                   
                                                  Admirable response to the feedback.  Thanks.  As I always try, I'll do my best not to constipate the launch area.  Today was pretty unusual.
                                                   
                                                  Jon

                                                   
                                                  On 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:

                                                   
                                                  Well said, a bit long winded, your rant is understood.  Like I said before, in my last email, I'm sorry I did not mean to make you feel bad...It is was a matter of Safety. DO NOT FLY YOUR KITE OVER HEAD ON Barclay BEACH! If you do it, then everyone does it, and eventually someone gets hurt, and we are out of kiting at LP.

                                                   
                                                  MY BAD: I went out on the wrong board and was coming back in when I dropped the kite the second time. The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head. If there was enough wind to get it over head I would have been Body Dragging. Everyone wants to put the board on at the beach and take off, it looks really kool, I know I do it too! We must stop doing this because it sets an Example that beginners will follow.

                                                   
                                                  My 2 kites were somewhat nested with no lines in anyones way, at the back of the Beach. I did not lay my kite out in front of anyone. I will place my kites even further back as you suggested so they are not in the way.

                                                   
                                                  Again, I apologize for yelling(raising my voice) but no-one should be flying their kite back and forth at BB waiting for better wind.  If there is enough wind to fly kite there is enough wind to Body Drag out, my second departure was on a 9m kite so there was enough wind. If you Body Drag out you reduce the risk of dropping your kite. Body Dragging sucks, but it works. Just accept it and other will too!

                                                   
                                                  Karma got me back for yelling and made my Camera go swimming. So Bummed...it is in the oven drying out right now hopefully it is OK!

                                                   
                                                  To your Rules:

                                                   
                                                  Add to #1 Body drag away from BEACH

                                                   
                                                  #2&3 pump kite & then layout lines, otherwise you have lines sitting on Beach waiting for something to connect to. Once lines are connected wind them back on bar so they don't sit in everyone else's path. I will gladly help anyone with technique on leaving lines attached to kite. It is way to easy and much safer!

                                                   
                                                  #4 Leave unused kites at the back of the Beach, there is a ton of room off the sand launch area. Don't forget to weigh them down & have lines secured & Clear.

                                                   
                                                  #5&6 Do not cross other lines unless you are launching... That is an Accident waiting to happen!!!!

                                                   
                                                  #7 kiters in water should give right-of-way to kiters that are on beach with kite in air, otherwise help the water bound land kite first.

                                                   
                                                  #8 Is good...but, Leave out the JERK part out, otherwise, I will never live this incident down.

                                                   

                                                   
                                                  Eddy

                                                   

                                                  On Aug 12, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                   
                                                  This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                                   
                                                  The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                                   
                                                  RANT-ON:
                                                  Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                                  - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                                  - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                                  - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                                  - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                                  - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                                  - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                                  - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                                  - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                                  RANT-OFF:
                                                   
                                                  Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                                   
                                                  The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                                   
                                                  1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                                   
                                                  2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                                   
                                                  3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                                   
                                                  4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                                   
                                                  5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                                   
                                                  6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                                   
                                                  7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                                   
                                                  8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                                   
                                                  Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                                   
                                                  Jon
                                                   
                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Gear Daddy LLC
                                                  (208) 863-6966

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   


                                                   

                                                   


                                                   

                                                  Gear Daddy LLC
                                                  (208) 863-6966

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   


                                                • Tom von Alten
                                                  We *never* have this much fun deconstructing the day s windsurfing. Maybe there is something to this kite stuff. _____________ Tom von Alten
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Aug 13 9:10 PM
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                                                    We never have this much fun deconstructing the day's windsurfing.
                                                    Maybe there is something to this kite stuff.
                                                    _____________
                                                    Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
                                                    tva@...

                                                  • William McMaster
                                                    Wow if their was as much hot air as is being spewed forth here all those kites would have lifted their riders towards heaven ! Billy To:
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Aug 13 9:35 PM
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                                                      Wow if their was as much hot air as is being spewed forth here all those kites would have lifted their riders towards heaven !
                                                       
                                                      Billy





                                                      To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
                                                      From: tonyswilliams@...
                                                      Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:41:10 -0700
                                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??


                                                      Agro stands for aggrivated or angry, as in  " I'm as agro as a cut snake, so stay out of my way".

                                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                                      From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@gmail. com>
                                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:27:07 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                      Point well taken, Tony...no binky spit !!!  I'll try to do better next time.
                                                       
                                                      What's "agro" mean?  Can't say if I've gone agro or not....
                                                       

                                                       
                                                      On 8/13/08, tony williams <tonyswilliams@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                                      Hey Jon
                                                      Can you start your posts with a summary then go into the bulk after that so we with little attentionspans can retain our sanity and still know what you are going on about.  Now don't go agro on me or spit the binky. I just think, like all literary works, it could use a 2nd or 3rd draft to cut some of the unnecessay wording
                                                      Like  the following could be shortened from:
                                                       
                                                      "Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the BLA BLA BLA. If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly BLA BLA BLA stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before)"
                                                       
                                                      to: You weren't there, we were. Eddy was impatient and it showed in his actions and instructions to another kiter launching.
                                                       
                                                      119 words reduced to 20
                                                       

                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                                      From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@gmail. com>
                                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:34:02 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                      Hi Billy, haven't met you yet I don't believe....
                                                       
                                                      You're right, Eddie does rock...he just needed a bit of a wake-up as I often do too.  In fact Eddie has graciously given me such wake-ups on occasion in the past, for which I later see I desperately needed it.
                                                       
                                                      Billy, were you at LP yesterday??  Since you weren't there to see what happened, and because you're a newbie as you say, I can't imagine how you can possibly be qualified or have the experience to judge whether Eddie was truly "only looking out for the safety of others" or whether that is total crap.  If you bother to investigate before spewing nonsense, others who WERE THERE will certainly tell you he was simply impatient to get his 3rd try at getting out on the water and was just badgering another kiter to try to get him out of the way by demanding that kiter do stupid things (like exactly the things that failed for Eddie himself on two prior occasions just minutes before).  It had nothing to do with safety.  Claiming he was responding to an alarming "safety risk" is simply a convenient way for Eddie to try convince folks he didn't just simply do a jerk thing.  Eddie is absolutely not a jerk, though, as we all well know.  He just did a jerk thing as we all sometimes do.  Would've been nice if he hadn't tried to hide behind the "safety" shield and just owned up to it, but I certainly forgive him and respect him for the good guy he is.
                                                       
                                                      There is a bigger concern you've raised, though, by suggesting all this is simply unproductive and destructive noise, and showing no hint of recognizing the importance of the bigger issue that is being discussed.  The incident with Eddie is minor.  As a newbie you very likely don't have much competency or experience just yet in a) the absolutely-not- for-beginners challenges/dangers of the LP launch spot and b) how that increasingly crowded space must be managed.  If you plan to use LP in the future I'm sure I'm speaking for more than just myself when I tell you it would be far more reassuring to us all if you as a newbie would NOT just flippantly characterize as "bitching", "destructive" , and "unproductive" the important activity of pursuing agreement on the appropiate practices and behaviors for that increasingly crowded spot, and trying to get people to practice them for their own good.  This is information you need to know and darn-well better apply if you're going to use the area...if you're not going to bother to seriously consider the important parts of what's going on here, and practice what is discussed, you're not welcome there.  Go kite and have your fun somewhere else because we don't want naivity, inexperience, and carefree ignorance putting our safety, our fun, or our kite spot at risk.  You have never seen first hand the near disasters and problems that have already happened at LP or at other spots...the experiences that give us the judgment to make these rules for our mutual well being.  For example, mindlessly yelling and screaming at other kiters just raises anxieties and tension and absolutely distracts the attentions of those engaged from what they should really be paying serious attention to.  Every experienced kiter will tell you lapses in attention cause mistakes and mistakes cause disasters.  Don't cause needless distraction.  If Eddie really had safety on his mind, he would have kept his impatience to get on the water, and his frustration with two prior failures, under control.  Yelling like an idiot at other kiters when it's absolutely not about any sort of safety risk whatsoever is unacceptable behavior at any kite spot.  The bigger message to you, though, is don't just carelessly dismiss this discussion of rules and behavior when you don't have the experience yet to respect its importance.  I think Eddie is a great guy too, but you missed the main point by focusing on his defense and dismissing the rest, so pay attention.
                                                       
                                                      Today we had several real-life and compelling demonstrations related to Rule #1 and the discussion concerning whether it should say "body drag out".  You may choose to not bother yourself with learning this useful information too, but in case you want to learn something valuable, I'll leave it to you to ask about what happened today concerning that rule.  Clearly at that spot there are circumstances when that is definitely NOT a good idea, and others when it may indeed be good advice.  To avoid problems, you might want to ask questions to learn how to tell the difference.  I'm sure I'll be meeting you sometime when you come to LP, and when you do you can bet we'll all be looking to assure you behave like you know these rules and are applying them, so we can all rest easy and have responsible fun.  Would not be good to see signs of careless ignorance.
                                                       
                                                      Jon Bolt
                                                       
                                                       
                                                      On 8/13/08, William McMaster <inspiregraphics@ hotmail.com> wrote:


                                                      I am a Newbie and Eddie Rocks he is a considerate person only looking out for the safety of others. So quit your Bitching and get Kiting wholly Shit folks its supposed to be fun and bring people together that is why I decided to take up the sport put your energy into productive instead of destructive. ...Eddie sorry to hear about your camera when I get back from my Fire Assignment in CA you are welcome to borrow my SLR anytime ..
                                                       
                                                      Billy McMaster





                                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                      From: jasonbrickner@ msn.com
                                                      Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:39:09 -0600
                                                      Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??



                                                      Eddy.... it takes a LONG time for those to dry out sometimes.  Give it a week.  I'd love to see those pictures.  Sorry to heat about the camera.  Doesn't seem fair that bad things happen when trying to do good things.
                                                       
                                                      -Jason


                                                      From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:45 PM
                                                      To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
                                                      Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] ..Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                       

                                                      Jason,


                                                       
                                                      Thanks,,, for the rescues, and well said on the BD...  I had some wonderful pictures of you but my Camera is out of commission. and I was shooting on internal memory. If it starts working again and the pictures are there I'll let you know.  

                                                       
                                                      Your 2 cents is worth a dollar!

                                                       
                                                      Eddy

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      On Aug 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Jason Brickner wrote:


                                                       
                                                      Hello Jon,
                                                       
                                                      Great morning all in all.  I think we already hashed through the use of the beach on crowded mornings LAST year.  Does anyone still have them?   I think we just need to let all the newbies know the 'best practices' you have reiterated in your email.  Someone should print these out and give them to anyone using the kitebeach in the mornings.  I remember last year we had NO issues when everyone followed the guidelines.  There were days we had 6-7 kite laid out getting setup at the same time.  Eddy obviously had a busy morning shuttling people with the boat and helping people out.  That's got to be a rough gig and I don't know how you have the patience for it.  I miss kiting with you out there in the mornings.
                                                       
                                                      Jon is correct that all the 'stale student kites' in the back corner got in the way of people trying to get ready this morning.  We were crawling all over each other.  Jon, at the same time, your foil kite is a little different and has different needs than everyone else's.  When you launch, it can bring the beach to a standstill.  Luckily this only takes you a couple minutes most times.  I think the frustration this morning is that I could barely hold Chris' kite down and yours was barely flying.  Obviously you had nothing up there.  It was clear the way the kite was falling outta the sky. Although I didn't say anything, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I was getting impatient too.  I always feel for me, the best thing to do is get the kite up and GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH.  Half the time I body drag with my board to better wind.  Other times when it's strong enough, I drag clear of the dock and head out on the board.  When it's crowded, I will probably continue to hit the water and quickly drag out clear of the docks.  That way people can keep launching and get around me it I have an issue.  You're kite is different and I'm not sure if you can body drag out like us.  I think you told me once why it doesn't work to drag out.
                                                       
                                                      Anyway... here is my take...it's easy to remember.  Get dressed ready to go, gab all your stuff and head to the beach.  Lay your board at the shore.  Pump up your kite in the far corner.  Lay out your lines.  Connect lines.  Get the kite up, grab your board, and get the hell out into the water and off the beach!
                                                       
                                                      Just my two cents worth.
                                                       
                                                      Hey... I did three back rolls each direction this morning.  Yeeee Hawwwww!
                                                       
                                                      -Jason


                                                      From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroupscom [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jon Bolt
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:42 PM
                                                      To: Snowkiteidaho
                                                      Subject: [snowkiteidaho] ...Tuesday AM: darn decent if you could get out to it; time for rules??

                                                       

                                                       
                                                      This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                                       
                                                      The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                                       
                                                      RANT-ON:
                                                      Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                                      - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                                      - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                                      - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                                      - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                                      - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                                      - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                                      - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                                      - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                                      RANT-OFF:
                                                       
                                                      Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                                       
                                                      The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                                       
                                                      1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                                       
                                                      2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                                       
                                                      3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                                       
                                                      4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                                       
                                                      5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                                       
                                                      6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                                       
                                                      7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                                       
                                                      8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                                       
                                                      Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                                       
                                                      Jon
                                                       
                                                       

                                                       

                                                       




                                                      Gear Daddy LLC
                                                      (208) 863-6966

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       



                                                       


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                                                    • Jon Bolt
                                                      Oh, I realized Eddy the reason my kite was on the beach so long today was that during setup I stopped to launch at least two other kites, and then ran over to
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Aug 13 11:34 PM
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Oh, I realized Eddy the reason my kite was on the beach so long today was that during setup I stopped to launch at least two other kites, and then ran over to the Barclay boat ramp to help Steve when his kite fell and was on its way to getting sliced up by the docks.  Now I'm certain I could've blown them all off, thought only of myself, and surely gotten out a whole lot more quickly.  But like my choice to wait for wind yesterday, seemed pretty clear it was the right thing to do.  I realize you were far away and are speaking without having any idea what all was really going on.  But feel free to ask those I helped if my kite being laid out so long was a problem (and it was just one kite, not two left unattended that really did interfere with others).
                                                         
                                                         
                                                         
                                                        On 8/13/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:

                                                        I just want to get this out in the forum and cleared up b/c I was asked many questions this morning about what happened. If you are tired of hearing about this please delete now. 


                                                         
                                                        I personally think common sense & good practices eliminate any need for Rules!     Anyway, I break Someone's Rule everyday, and love it!

                                                         
                                                        The entire issue here is Safety!!! I assure you I have no issues with anyone, all I want is for everyone to have fun and set a good example. I yell because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I personally don't hear myself yelling, but I do raise my voice to be heard! If I offend you by raising my voice, know that you are not the first. Most of my outburst are momentary, I'm sure there is a drug out there that would make me a better, nicer person. I don't care what gear you fly, but as long as it is flying, it will behave similar & a foil kite is one of the best at low wind conditions (it stays in air when nothing else will, that is why they are great for snowkiting, "ok that was an unnecessary stab").
                                                         
                                                        The particular instance that created this rant is that Jon wanted the wind to be strong enough to get on his board near the beach without Body Dragging (which is exactly what he did when the wind filled back in). Instead of body dragging out to the wind like most everyone else does, he flew the kite high and over head back & forth waiting for better wind.  In the mean time, there were several people waiting in line for Jon to get out of the way. Two kites were in launch mode and there was "enough" wind, just not enough for Jon to beach start.  I was one of the kiters in line, lost my patience, and I raised my voice (yelling) to Body Drag out, which should be standard protocol! This was not a personal attack, I'm sorry if you feel it was! I was not the only one getting impatient, just the only one to say something. There was enough wind for Chris and myself to launch kites, we just could not because there is only enough room for one kite at a time to fly at Barclay. 

                                                         
                                                        Even if a "PRO" kiter is at Barclay by themselves it is a bad idea to lolly-gag around waiting for better wind. Get the kite up and get out as quickly as possible or land the kite.

                                                         
                                                        Every-time, I see a kite fly high @ Barclay I'm going to yell (or somebody should yell) to get it down. A high kite at Barclay is usually a sign of a kiter that is unaware of where their kite is or they are use to smoother winds (this instant may or may not have been the case, does not really matter). Regardless, safety first, and "I SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY ONE PREACHING THIS!!!"  Every accident (FORTUNATELY MINOR) to date that has happened there is because a kite is flown over head and luffed, unless the lines were hooked up incorrectly.  When a kite is parked on the side of the wind window and luffs it falls right back into the wind and powers up again. As long as kite stays over water you get yanked into the water by kite. When a kite flown overhead luffs it falls until the lines tension and there is no telling where the kite will fall or direction of eventual yank. We all know that the wind is gusty and swirly at Barclay, so realize that a kite over head can luff really, really bad and that is when the "SHIT" hits the fan. 

                                                         
                                                        I also have been saying that the safest most efficient start at Barclay is a solid body drag technique, some may disagree. But if you do it and get at least 50' out then you increase the margin of Safety. By trying to put a board on at the beach most people need the kite over head (as stated earlier this is bad). Once you are out 50-100 feet, do what you want, but I guarantee that if you body drag out past the furthest Buoy (especially in light winds) your success rate at getting out increases and amazingly you will start very far upwind. Also, you will not have to contend with flying your kite over the knob(hill) if you try getting on your board immediately, and go downwind. The Knob is another place that disaster will eventually strike, but hopefully it is just to the kite. 

                                                         
                                                        If I accomplish one thing at Barclay to promote safety it would be to get everyone to preach Low kite and Body Dragging out. Please set a good example by body dragging as far from the dock as possible, if you can not body drag maybe you should find a new place to kite, because Barclay is an advanced site, and body dragging is a basic beginner skill. If you want help mastering Body Dragging skills I will be there. Some beginners will get "intermediate syndrome" (I have it all the time!!!) and think they should be launching like the better riders, therefor if better riders Body Drag a little ways out so will the beginners. Body dragging is too Easy, If you are not good at it go practice. I've been in the throat of the Dam spillway and body dragged all the way back to Barclay on one pass in light winds.

                                                         
                                                        LASTLY:   Jon is flying a PL kite and has special launch needs and I think we all can accommodate him. But, Jon, you are in the minority with your kite needs, everyone else sets their LEI kites up and runs there lines differently then you need to. I'm not saying you have no rights just consider that you really need to be considerate of the masses. While I was on the water, I noticed that your kite was laid out for an extensive period of time this morning blocking other's launch again, maybe there was no wind again, I don't know. There is a reason that PL kites are not everywhere and LEI kites are, I'm not saying anything bad about them but they are different.  So when making your rules consider that you should follow them, and adjust your habits to match the majority.

                                                         
                                                        All it will take is one person to get smashed into the dock, shelter, rest room, and an Ambulance is called to Barclay, We can all Kiss Barclay Launch goodbye.

                                                         
                                                        Be Safe/Have Fun!
                                                        Over and Out,
                                                        Eddy

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         
                                                        On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                         
                                                        Eddie...
                                                        Takes big character to respond as you did.  Hats off.  Sorry about your camera; hope it works.
                                                         
                                                        I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.  Just because there is enough wind to hold one aloft, that absolutely does NOT mean there is enough wind to body drag or do anything useful.  PL's just about won't luff...they'll stick in the sky when inflatables will fall...but that doesn't mean there's enough wind to ride or drag or do anything useful.  I've been using them for 6 years and I know their behavior way better than anyone around here including you.    When you can't fly an inflatable because there's so little wind it luffs, and a PL still sticks in the sky, if the inflatable surely didn't have enough to drag a kiter, why would the PL have enough???  I know my gear and you sell and use completely different stuff.
                                                         
                                                        Second, when the wind line is a half mile out and the wind hole is so huge, spending minutes attempting to body drag out to rideable wind just prolongs your exposure to the hole and its squirrely conditions, and is a certain recipe to have your kite fall somewhere along the journey out...just as yours did.  My experience there is you need to have at least enough juice so that you can get on your board quick keeping the lines with at least a little tension and get out of there.  If you don't have enough juice to keep tension, and go out and fiddle around trying to drag out, the longer you drag the more risk of failure.  You need to minimize duration of exposure to the screwy conditions.  If diving the kite is likely to stall it, you likely don't have enough wind to body drag either.  Better to wait for a puff rather than try something senseless and drop your kite and block the area for a good long time.  When you were hollering at me my kite was falling out of the sky DOWNWIND as you could see it stalling big and falling back over the beach.  I had to really pump and finesse it just to keep it up.  That didn't happen because there was plenty of wind to body drag.  Maybe your yelling produced the air that got it to go back up, so thanks for that !  Unfortunately, I didn't have a tractor 17m like Jason or an aircraft carrier deck to ride like Chris or Steve.  Those might have made getting out more doable but in those conditions at that instant, I don't think there was enough juice to do much with anything.
                                                         
                                                        Third, as far as holding the kite overhead at Barclay, in those scant winds I'm not going to hold it at the side of the window over water and lose lift when the wind dies and have it sink into the water and then hold up the whole launch area...just as happened to you in your first attempt.  And look at your explanation: "The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head."  Sounds like you preferred to fly yours overhead too but couldn't, so let's not make excuses about the hollering being a safety concern due to flying it overhead.  If my kite is a design that behaves safely and manageably when overhead at Barclay, I'm not going to do stupid things with it just so people with a completely different kite design won't be tempted to do what I do. 
                                                         
                                                        #1) I disagee with "body drag away from beach".  It should say "get going fast and get away from the beach as fast as possible...whichever way works safest and best under the conditions.
                                                         
                                                        #2 & #3)  If you pump your kite and setup lines AFTER you're dressed and ready, there should be no need to rewind your lines onto your bar and leave your kite and bar on the beach.  You're ready to go.  After finishing connecting, got to your bar and get launched and get out.
                                                         
                                                        #8) OK, we'll leave out the JERK
                                                         
                                                        Admirable response to the feedback.  Thanks.  As I always try, I'll do my best not to constipate the launch area.  Today was pretty unusual.
                                                         
                                                        Jon

                                                         
                                                        On 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:

                                                         
                                                        Well said, a bit long winded, your rant is understood.  Like I said before, in my last email, I'm sorry I did not mean to make you feel bad...It is was a matter of Safety. DO NOT FLY YOUR KITE OVER HEAD ON Barclay BEACH! If you do it, then everyone does it, and eventually someone gets hurt, and we are out of kiting at LP.

                                                         
                                                        MY BAD: I went out on the wrong board and was coming back in when I dropped the kite the second time. The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head. If there was enough wind to get it over head I would have been Body Dragging. Everyone wants to put the board on at the beach and take off, it looks really kool, I know I do it too! We must stop doing this because it sets an Example that beginners will follow.

                                                         
                                                        My 2 kites were somewhat nested with no lines in anyones way, at the back of the Beach. I did not lay my kite out in front of anyone. I will place my kites even further back as you suggested so they are not in the way.

                                                         
                                                        Again, I apologize for yelling(raising my voice) but no-one should be flying their kite back and forth at BB waiting for better wind.  If there is enough wind to fly kite there is enough wind to Body Drag out, my second departure was on a 9m kite so there was enough wind. If you Body Drag out you reduce the risk of dropping your kite. Body Dragging sucks, but it works. Just accept it and other will too!

                                                         
                                                        Karma got me back for yelling and made my Camera go swimming. So Bummed...it is in the oven drying out right now hopefully it is OK!

                                                         
                                                        To your Rules:

                                                         
                                                        Add to #1 Body drag away from BEACH

                                                         
                                                        #2&3 pump kite & then layout lines, otherwise you have lines sitting on Beach waiting for something to connect to. Once lines are connected wind them back on bar so they don't sit in everyone else's path. I will gladly help anyone with technique on leaving lines attached to kite. It is way to easy and much safer!

                                                         
                                                        #4 Leave unused kites at the back of the Beach, there is a ton of room off the sand launch area. Don't forget to weigh them down & have lines secured & Clear.

                                                         
                                                        #5&6 Do not cross other lines unless you are launching... That is an Accident waiting to happen!!!!

                                                         
                                                        #7 kiters in water should give right-of-way to kiters that are on beach with kite in air, otherwise help the water bound land kite first.

                                                         
                                                        #8 Is good...but, Leave out the JERK part out, otherwise, I will never live this incident down.

                                                         

                                                         
                                                        Eddy

                                                         

                                                        On Aug 12, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                         
                                                        This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                                         
                                                        The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                                         
                                                        RANT-ON:
                                                        Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                                        - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                                        - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                                        - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                                        - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                                        - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                                        - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                                        - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                                        - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits....perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                                        RANT-OFF:
                                                         
                                                        Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                                         
                                                        The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                                         
                                                        1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                                         
                                                        2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                                         
                                                        3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                                         
                                                        4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged...after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                                         
                                                        5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                                         
                                                        6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                                         
                                                        7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                                         
                                                        8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                                         
                                                        Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                                         
                                                        Jon
                                                         
                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Gear Daddy LLC
                                                        (208) 863-6966

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         


                                                         

                                                         


                                                         

                                                        Gear Daddy LLC
                                                        (208) 863-6966

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         


                                                      • Gear Daddy LLC
                                                        Actually on my return to shore...I was coming in looking for were I would drop my kite but your kite and lines (that I could not see) were strung across the
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Aug 14 5:10 AM
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                                                          Actually on my return to shore...I was coming in looking for were I would drop my kite but your kite and lines (that I could not see) were strung across the beach, again. Oh well my bad! 

                                                          Fortunate for you, I lost the wind in my effort to find a better approach angle and my kite dropped, so i did not say a word.

                                                          And for the Last time, All I care about is Safety!  I'm sorry for yelling at you and hurting "your feelings" you were being unsafe and flying the kite over head waiting to beach launch. 

                                                          Everyone at the beach who flies their kite over head for any extended period of time, "I yell at!"   

                                                          Ask Around! Tony, Ryan, Brad, Steve, Steve Baker, Garrett, Brian, Scott, Johnny, just to name a few guys I've yelled at.  None of these guys have blown this out of proportion.  Unfortunately you were made to look bad b/c you were holding up the group.    Who is in Denial!

                                                          All I request is Body Drag out a little and do not fly kites over head.  

                                                          I'm done with this!







                                                          On Aug 14, 2008, at 12:34 AM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                          Oh, I realized Eddy the reason my kite was on the beach so long today was that during setup I stopped to launch at least two other kites, and then ran over to the Barclay boat ramp to help Steve when his kite fell and was on its way to getting sliced up by the docks.  Now I'm certain I could've blown them all off, thought only of myself, and surely gotten out a whole lot more quickly.  But like my choice to wait for wind yesterday, seemed pretty clear it was the right thing to do.  I realize you were far away and are speaking without having any idea what all was really going on.  But feel free to ask those I helped if my kite being laid out so long was a problem (and it was just one kite, not two left unattended that really did interfere with others).
                                                           
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          On 8/13/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                                          I just want to get this out in the forum and cleared up b/c I was asked many questions this morning about what happened. If you are tired of hearing about this please delete now. 


                                                           
                                                          I personally think common sense & good practices eliminate any need for Rules!     Anyway, I break Someone's Rule everyday, and love it!

                                                           
                                                          The entire issue here is Safety!!! I assure you I have no issues with anyone, all I want is for everyone to have fun and set a good example. I yell because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I personally don't hear myself yelling, but I do raise my voice to be heard! If I offend you by raising my voice, know that you are not the first. Most of my outburst are momentary, I'm sure there is a drug out there that would make me a better, nicer person. I don't care what gear you fly, but as long as it is flying, it will behave similar & a foil kite is one of the best at low wind conditions (it stays in air when nothing else will, that is why they are great for snowkiting, "ok that was an unnecessary stab").
                                                           
                                                          The particular instance that created this rant is that Jon wanted the wind to be strong enough to get on his board near the beach without Body Dragging (which is exactly what he did when the wind filled back in). Instead of body dragging out to the wind like most everyone else does, he flew the kite high and over head back & forth waiting for better wind.  In the mean time, there were several people waiting in line for Jon to get out of the way. Two kites were in launch mode and there was "enough" wind, just not enough for Jon to beach start.  I was one of the kiters in line, lost my patience, and I raised my voice (yelling) to Body Drag out, which should be standard protocol! This was not a personal attack, I'm sorry if you feel it was! I was not the only one getting impatient, just the only one to say something. There was enough wind for Chris and myself to launch kites, we just could not because there is only enough room for one kite at a time to fly at Barclay. 

                                                           
                                                          Even if a "PRO" kiter is at Barclay by themselves it is a bad idea to lolly-gag around waiting for better wind. Get the kite up and get out as quickly as possible or land the kite.

                                                           
                                                          Every-time, I see a kite fly high @ Barclay I'm going to yell (or somebody should yell) to get it down. A high kite at Barclay is usually a sign of a kiter that is unaware of where their kite is or they are use to smoother winds (this instant may or may not have been the case, does not really matter). Regardless, safety first, and "I SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY ONE PREACHING THIS!!!"  Every accident (FORTUNATELY MINOR) to date that has happened there is because a kite is flown over head and luffed, unless the lines were hooked up incorrectly.  When a kite is parked on the side of the wind window and luffs it falls right back into the wind and powers up again. As long as kite stays over water you get yanked into the water by kite. When a kite flown overhead luffs it falls until the lines tension and there is no telling where the kite will fall or direction of eventual yank. We all know that the wind is gusty and swirly at Barclay, so realize that a kite over head can luff really, really bad and that is when the "SHIT" hits the fan. 

                                                           
                                                          I also have been saying that the safest most efficient start at Barclay is a solid body drag technique, some may disagree. But if you do it and get at least 50' out then you increase the margin of Safety. By trying to put a board on at the beach most people need the kite over head (as stated earlier this is bad). Once you are out 50-100 feet, do what you want, but I guarantee that if you body drag out past the furthest Buoy (especially in light winds) your success rate at getting out increases and amazingly you will start very far upwind. Also, you will not have to contend with flying your kite over the knob(hill) if you try getting on your board immediately, and go downwind. The Knob is another place that disaster will eventually strike, but hopefully it is just to the kite. 

                                                           
                                                          If I accomplish one thing at Barclay to promote safety it would be to get everyone to preach Low kite and Body Dragging out. Please set a good example by body dragging as far from the dock as possible, if you can not body drag maybe you should find a new place to kite, because Barclay is an advanced site, and body dragging is a basic beginner skill. If you want help mastering Body Dragging skills I will be there. Some beginners will get "intermediate syndrome" (I have it all the time!!!) and think they should be launching like the better riders, therefor if better riders Body Drag a little ways out so will the beginners. Body dragging is too Easy, If you are not good at it go practice. I've been in the throat of the Dam spillway and body dragged all the way back to Barclay on one pass in light winds.

                                                           
                                                          LASTLY:   Jon is flying a PL kite and has special launch needs and I think we all can accommodate him. But, Jon, you are in the minority with your kite needs, everyone else sets their LEI kites up and runs there lines differently then you need to. I'm not saying you have no rights just consider that you really need to be considerate of the masses. While I was on the water, I noticed that your kite was laid out for an extensive period of time this morning blocking other's launch again, maybe there was no wind again, I don't know. There is a reason that PL kites are not everywhere and LEI kites are, I'm not saying anything bad about them but they are different.  So when making your rules consider that you should follow them, and adjust your habits to match the majority.

                                                           
                                                          All it will take is one person to get smashed into the dock, shelter, rest room, and an Ambulance is called to Barclay, We can all Kiss Barclay Launch goodbye.

                                                           
                                                          Be Safe/Have Fun!
                                                          Over and Out,
                                                          Eddy

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           
                                                          On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                           
                                                          Eddie...
                                                          Takes big character to respond as you did.  Hats off.  Sorry about your camera; hope it works.
                                                           
                                                          I should correct your misconception about Peter Lynns.  Just because there is enough wind to hold one aloft, that absolutely does NOT mean there is enough wind to body drag or do anything useful.  PL's just about won't luff...they'll stick in the sky when inflatables will fall...but that doesn't mean there's enough wind to ride or drag or do anything useful.  I've been using them for 6 years and I know their behavior way better than anyone around here including you.    When you can't fly an inflatable because there's so little wind it luffs, and a PL still sticks in the sky, if the inflatable surely didn't have enough to drag a kiter, why would the PL have enough???  I know my gear and you sell and use completely different stuff.
                                                           
                                                          Second, when the wind line is a half mile out and the wind hole is so huge, spending minutes attempting to body drag out to rideable wind just prolongs your exposure to the hole and its squirrely conditions, and is a certain recipe to have your kite fall somewhere along the journey out...just as yours did.  My experience there is you need to have at least enough juice so that you can get on your board quick keeping the lines with at least a little tension and get out of there.  If you don't have enough juice to keep tension, and go out and fiddle around trying to drag out, the longer you drag the more risk of failure.  You need to minimize duration of exposure to the screwy conditions.  If diving the kite is likely to stall it, you likely don't have enough wind to body drag either.  Better to wait for a puff rather than try something senseless and drop your kite and block the area for a good long time.  When you were hollering at me my kite was falling out of the sky DOWNWIND as you could see it stalling big and falling back over the beach.  I had to really pump and finesse it just to keep it up.  That didn't happen because there was plenty of wind to body drag.  Maybe your yelling produced the air that got it to go back up, so thanks for that !  Unfortunately, I didn't have a tractor 17m like Jason or an aircraft carrier deck to ride like Chris or Steve.  Those might have made getting out more doable but in those conditions at that instant, I don't think there was enough juice to do much with anything.
                                                           
                                                          Third, as far as holding the kite overhead at Barclay, in those scant winds I'm not going to hold it at the side of the window over water and lose lift when the wind dies and have it sink into the water and then hold up the whole launch area...just as happened to you in your first attempt.  And look at your explanation: "The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head."  Sounds like you preferred to fly yours overhead too but couldn't, so let's not make excuses about the hollering being a safety concern due to flying it overhead.  If my kite is a design that behaves safely and manageably when overhead at Barclay, I'm not going to do stupid things with it just so people with a completely different kite design won't be tempted to do what I do. 
                                                           
                                                          #1) I disagee with "body drag away from beach".  It should say "get going fast and get away from the beach as fast as possible...whicheve r way works safest and best under the conditions.
                                                           
                                                          #2 & #3)  If you pump your kite and setup lines AFTER you're dressed and ready, there should be no need to rewind your lines onto your bar and leave your kite and bar on the beach.  You're ready to go.  After finishing connecting, got to your bar and get launched and get out.
                                                           
                                                          #8) OK, we'll leave out the JERK
                                                           
                                                          Admirable response to the feedback.  Thanks.  As I always try, I'll do my best not to constipate the launch area.  Today was pretty unusual.
                                                           
                                                          Jon

                                                           
                                                          On 8/12/08, Gear Daddy LLC <geardaddyllc@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                                           
                                                          Well said, a bit long winded, your rant is understood.  Like I said before, in my last email, I'm sorry I did not mean to make you feel bad...It is was a matter of Safety. DO NOT FLY YOUR KITE OVER HEAD ON Barclay BEACH! If you do it, then everyone does it, and eventually someone gets hurt, and we are out of kiting at LP.

                                                           
                                                          MY BAD: I went out on the wrong board and was coming back in when I dropped the kite the second time. The first time I was making my way to the water to Body Drag when the lack of wind dropped my kite. I did not have enough to fly it over head. If there was enough wind to get it over head I would have been Body Dragging. Everyone wants to put the board on at the beach and take off, it looks really kool, I know I do it too! We must stop doing this because it sets an Example that beginners will follow.

                                                           
                                                          My 2 kites were somewhat nested with no lines in anyones way, at the back of the Beach. I did not lay my kite out in front of anyone. I will place my kites even further back as you suggested so they are not in the way.

                                                           
                                                          Again, I apologize for yelling(raising my voice) but no-one should be flying their kite back and forth at BB waiting for better wind.  If there is enough wind to fly kite there is enough wind to Body Drag out, my second departure was on a 9m kite so there was enough wind. If you Body Drag out you reduce the risk of dropping your kite. Body Dragging sucks, but it works. Just accept it and other will too!

                                                           
                                                          Karma got me back for yelling and made my Camera go swimming. So Bummed...it is in the oven drying out right now hopefully it is OK!

                                                           
                                                          To your Rules:

                                                           
                                                          Add to #1 Body drag away from BEACH

                                                           
                                                          #2&3 pump kite & then layout lines, otherwise you have lines sitting on Beach waiting for something to connect to. Once lines are connected wind them back on bar so they don't sit in everyone else's path. I will gladly help anyone with technique on leaving lines attached to kite. It is way to easy and much safer!

                                                           
                                                          #4 Leave unused kites at the back of the Beach, there is a ton of room off the sand launch area. Don't forget to weigh them down & have lines secured & Clear.

                                                           
                                                          #5&6 Do not cross other lines unless you are launching... That is an Accident waiting to happen!!!!

                                                           
                                                          #7 kiters in water should give right-of-way to kiters that are on beach with kite in air, otherwise help the water bound land kite first.

                                                           
                                                          #8 Is good...but, Leave out the JERK part out, otherwise, I will never live this incident down.

                                                           

                                                           
                                                          Eddy

                                                           

                                                          On Aug 12, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jon Bolt wrote:


                                                           
                                                          This morning was 14m kite (or 12 & big board) and lasted a long time.  Steve Linane and I got there about 7:15AM and left just after 10:30AM.  Decent wind once you got to it.  The launch zone had the biggest longest lasting wind hole I've ever seen @ LP and the wind line went way up the channel and stayed.  Not only was there a big wind hole, but what little puffs did come by the beach were extremely southerly and swirly from coming off the hills.  Pretty tough getting out in no wind.  Eddie was the first kiter to try to get out after we got there and he dropped his kite TWICE in the water right by shore as others waiting to go helped him deal with his troubles.
                                                           
                                                          The kite launch area can now get pretty crowded with lesson takers, post-lesson newbies, and the usual crowd.  I think it's getting near the time that we'll have to establish etiquette rules to keep the launch zone as efficient and safe as possible, and avoid problems and tempers.
                                                           
                                                          RANT-ON:
                                                          Eddie, you remember when the terrible launch conditions forced me to wait with my kite in the sky, wading in water so I could be ready to go the instant some sort of puff arrived that offered some prayer of getting out?
                                                          - I'm pretty certain if I yelled at you the way you yelled at me, you'd have lost your patience faster than you lost it when you yelled.  You'd have been really pissed if I did that to you.
                                                          - And you had the brainfart to yell at me right after you yourself had attempted to go out and dropped your kite TWICE in the bay totally blocking the takeoff path because you couldn't keep your kite in the air???  You were yelling at me to body drag out and get out of there when those very same measures did what for you???...made you drop your kite TWICE and block the whole takeoff?  The advice you were yelling sure didn't seem too credible, based on your own experience, and another approach (like mine) seemed worth considering don't you think?  If you hadn't dropped your kite TWICE, you wouldn't have been back in line waiting to go out again nor in a position to lose your brains and yell at anyone in front of you.  You were only thinking about yourself.
                                                          - And did you notice when your kite dropped and blocked the area TWICE, no one yelled a peep at you.  In fact, far from yelling they halted their launch preparations and came to your assistance (thanks, Jason....in case Eddie hasn't told you that yet).
                                                          - And I didn't hear anyone yell at you for setting up 3 kites in the small staging zone, spreading them all out and making no attempt to nest them to leave reasonable room for the others that were there and arriving.  That crowding made launching much more difficult and less safe for the crowd that was there.
                                                          - Then once you got going and were out on the water, you just left two kites unused on shore taking up chunks of our limited space and making it tough for everyone else.  That whole setup approach of yours was incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate of other kiters.
                                                          - And I hope you make it clear to your students that your impatience, yelling, and inconsiderate use of launch space are terrible examples of what NOT to do.  That stuff was unacceptable.  That just leads to tension and careless haste that can produce real unsafe situations.
                                                          - I don't mind you making money at our kite spot, but I do mind if you unfairly take up space or do things that crowd out others or that make conditions far less safe.  Your business endeavors have lower priority than our recreational interests, in my view, and they better not compromise our ability (or my ability) to safely and efficiently use our spot.
                                                          - Please be much more considerate in the future, do a better job of promoting safety, and set a better example for your students, or find another spot for your business pursuits.... perhaps you could use the boatramp as I did for many years before the beach was constructed.
                                                          RANT-OFF:
                                                           
                                                          Eddie, we all know you're basically a terrific guy and have helped us all immensely (including me), and evidently you just had a bad hangover or huge brainfart or some sort of seizure.  I certainly forgive you primarily because I know what an overall great guy you are....but please be more considerate in the future.
                                                           
                                                          The above said, let me propose the beginnings of some rules intended to make use of our spot as efficient, speedy, and safe as possible.  Please feel free to add your own or disagree with any of these.  If you disagree with any, say it now very clearly so we can get it resolved.  Sadly the growing traffic makes it look like we need them.   Probably better to get these understood and agreed now than to wait for an accident to say "gee, we should have done this awhile back".  Once we agree on these, we may need to get a sign made and posted for all to see and remember. 
                                                           
                                                          1)  Place your board at the waters edge so you can easily pick it up on the way out, instead of walking around on the beach hunting it down after you launch.  (I think all of us do this now).
                                                           
                                                          2)  Be fully dressed with all gear on your body before laying out your kite and lines and pumping.  If you come out and pump your kite up and layout 100 feet of lines and then go off to get dressed and ready and bullshit a little as you do it, your kite & lines consume limited space on the beach for a longer time than if you had your gear already on and could just launch and go the moment you finish setup.  Unattended kites/lines can interfere with others closer to being ready to go out.  We need to minimize the time that kites sit unattended on our small beach taking up space.  Lucky Peak is cool in the morning and there should be no overheating problem from having to pump your kite with your wetsuit on.  If you overheat in the cold mornings, see your doctor (Binegar or Kerr will probably give you a discount).
                                                           
                                                          3)  Anyone have a suggestion as to whether a kite should be pumped before or after line layout?  Any advantages to one sequence or the other?
                                                           
                                                          4)  Setting up multiple kites is discouraged. ..after all, you can only go out on one.  If conditions (the crowd) permit, and you want to setup multiple kites ask the others on the beach for permission & support.  If they don't grant it, don't do it.  If you get permission for multiple kites, NEST THEM.  If you don't nest them, and others arrive and see unattended kites, the rule is the arriving kiters can deflate and move unattended kites (unattended either because the owner is on the water or up getting dressed).  A fully dressed & geared up kiter starting setup has "choice of beachspot" over any unattended kites/lines.  You cannot hold others responsible if an unattended kite is torn or nicked on our rocky beach when it was moved.  You shouldn't have left it there in the first place.
                                                           
                                                          5)  When you lay your lines out, lay them out as far up the embankment below the patio as possible, keeping them in a corridor at the base of the embankment.  This prevents an outgoing kiter from snagging lines of other kites or kicking & snagging a bar.  It will also allow room for self launching ( inflatables or Peter Lynns) preventing the launching kite from snagging other lines if it sweeps forward after launch in our squirrelly winds.
                                                           
                                                          6)  Lines may be layered on top of other lines, but the top most lines have to be the kiter's who is clearly closest to going out.  If at all possible, avoid layering of kite lines.  If you're going to lay yours on top of another, get permission of the kiter(s) whose lines are already on the ground.  Actually, if you are dressed when doing setup, you should be able to go the instant your lines are connected, and this should minimize any need to layer lines.
                                                           
                                                          7)  One kiter launching and in the water takeoff corridor at a time.  Wind is too squirrely in Barclay to risk multiple kites in the air at launch time.  A waiting kite in the air near shore could be a disaster if an outgoing kite luffs, detensioning lines and making the falling kite uncontrollable.
                                                           
                                                          8)  BE PATIENT & CONSIDERATE OF FELLOW KITERS.  GIVE HELP WHEN NEEDED or coaching on these rules when someone doesn't know them and is holding things up.  DON'T BE A JERK.  TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.  BE SAFE AND EFFICIENT.
                                                           
                                                          Please feel free to add your suggested rules.  I'll be happy to collect them, publish, and distribute to all, and investigate signage if we think we need that.  Unfortunately, I feels like we're getting to the point that these will be needed.
                                                           
                                                          Jon
                                                           
                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Gear Daddy LLC
                                                          (208) 863-6966

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           


                                                           

                                                           


                                                           

                                                          Gear Daddy LLC
                                                          (208) 863-6966

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           





                                                          Gear Daddy LLC
                                                          (208) 863-6966




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