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Re: big kite

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  • fernmanus
    I use a Flysurfer 19M SilverArrow 2 on light days. It is a big foil with enough power to pull you through deep powder even on the light days. The lighter
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
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      I use a Flysurfer 19M SilverArrow 2 on light days. It is a big foil
      with enough power to pull you through deep powder even on the light
      days. The lighter fabric drops the kites weight by 50%. I have been
      bugging Brian, Heather and Rob W. to make a Manta II using this
      fabric, but no success so far, so I am using the FS as my big kite.

      It is a good jumping kite, but it excels for gliding. It is like a
      paraglider with long lines.

      I use it all summer on the water. Range is 6 - 18 mph on the snow
      and 9 - 18 mph on the water. I weigh 180 LBS.

      I will be at the Snowkite Masters on Friday and Saturday if the wind
      is good. Hope to see some of you there. Look for the big white
      kite, that is the SA2.




      --- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Brickner"
      <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
      >
      > You're correct. At all times simple physics are going to apply.
      >
      > How are your kite pumping and edging skills. On the snow you can
      get away
      > with fairly crude control and still move and have a good time.
      Once you're
      > on the water it takes so much more kite control and finesse to
      maintain
      > plane, heading, and speed. It took us all years to gain these
      skills. Be
      > patient. You may think you're getting everything out of the kite,
      but I'll
      > bet you could strap a 100 lb sandbag on Eddy and he could still
      make it
      > work. I'll watch him on a 15m kite out at lucky peak riding upwind
      and
      > JUMPING when there was barley enough wind to launch my 17m kite.
      >
      > Pumping the kite, edging the board, creating apparent wind,
      maintaining
      > speed, riding without looking at the kite, going upwind, jumping
      all take
      > years to master.
      >
      > Hope to meet you soon.
      > -Jason
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Dave
      > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:25 PM
      > To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
      >
      >
      >
      > I agree with most of what you said, but it isn't 100% how you work
      your
      > kite.
      > If i'm 80 pounds heavier than eddy, and we are on the same kite,
      when
      > we "pop", he's going to go a lot higher than I can.....
      > At the snow kite event, at 4:30pm, as the winds were dying, I didn't
      > have the power to get back up the hill, but the smaller guys, on
      15's
      > could.... Sometimes more power is helpful... when jumping.... when
      > going uphill.... but on the flats, if the drag from Eddy and myself
      > were the same (assuming we are both on ski's) then it's all about
      how
      > you move the kite....
      > I REALLY don't want to go LEI on the snow though..... Not sure what
      > I'm going to do.
      >
      > :)
      >
      > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@
      > <mailto:jasonbrickner%40msn.com> msn.com> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hey Dave,
      > >
      > > I'm 190-200lbs (depending on how much beer I drink in a week). I
      flew a
      > 17m
      > > Slingshot fuel in 12-17mph wind about a month ago and felt
      perfect. I
      > can't
      > > imagine having another 60-70lbs to haul around. I would probably
      feel like
      > > I wanted more kite too. However, I look at Jay who is bigger than
      me and
      > he
      > > makes it work on the water with a 16m bow kite. It takes MUCH
      MORE kite to
      > > get going on water than on snow. Eddy is totally right in that a
      lot of it
      > > comes down to kite handling and creating apparent wind. The
      faster you go
      > > the more wind your kite sees which pulls harder which makes you
      go faster
      > > which makes more apparent wind which pulls harder which makes you
      go
      > faster
      > > ... you get the point.
      > >
      > > For what it's worth, setting up an inflatable in deep snow can be
      a
      > > 45minutes task. It SUCKS! Which is why you'll see me out on the
      water far
      > > more than the snow. I don't have the money for two types of
      kites. I guess
      > > if you were setting up at the sno-mo park, that would be a
      different
      > story.
      > >
      > > Really, Jay would be a good resource to talk about kite size.
      He's been
      > > there and done that, and been there and done that, and been there
      and done
      > > that.....
      > >
      > > ;-)
      > >
      > > -Jason
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: snowkiteidaho@ <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@
      > <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
      > > On Behalf Of Dave
      > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:40 AM
      > > To: snowkiteidaho@ <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year,
      I'm
      > > not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
      > > "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
      > > Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15,
      so I'm
      > > screwed.
      > >
      > > I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy
      at
      > > 200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
      > > 260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m
      kite.
      > >
      > > So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
      > > note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?
      > >
      > > grin
      > >
      > > --
      > > o
      > > <|v
      > > / >
      > >
      > > o
      > > <|}\
      > > / >
      > >
      > > O
      > > <@>
      > > / \
      > >
      >
      > --
      > o
      > <|v
      > / >
      >
      > o
      > <|}\
      > / >
      >
      > O
      > <@>
      > / \
      >
    • Ryan Wait
      Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI s on the snow. I can be pumped and riding within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as you will
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
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        Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI's on the snow. I can be pumped and riding within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as you will ever need. Most kite makers stop around 16-18 meter. Beyond that kites are super slow flying turds. You are not the only 260 lb kiter. for snow you need to get bigger floaty skiis, and for the water your favor board size is going to be big, 145cm x 44cm ish. I watched a 270 lb guy who's belly was hanging over his spreader bar catch air on a 14m frenzy in 9 mph winds. Guys half his size could not keep a 14m in the air. Skill is everything. 
         
        BTW- All the foil boys riding 15m are good riders, they will usually put up a 15m, but would have been fine on a 10m or 12m. All the Manta guys are putting up a 15m in 4-25 mph. 5 years ago they would have been on a 10m in winds over 20 mph.
         
        Loft is a function of wind speed, kite size, and body mass. with the right winds a 12 meter will give you more loft than your shorts can handle. 
         
        Cheers,
        RTW



        To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
        From: jaunemaillot@...
        Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
        Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

        So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
        not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
        "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
        Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm screwed.

        I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
        200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
        260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.

        So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
        note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?

        grin

        --
        o
        <|v
        / >

        o
        <|}\
        / >

        O
        <@>
        / \



        Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.
      • Darrel Thomas
        Dave, There IS a learning curve. Fuck the math. I could jump over Eddy with a 12m. There is a lot to learn that is not book learning. It is about
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
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          Dave,

           

          There IS a learning curve.  Fuck the math.  I could jump over Eddy with a 12m.  There is a lot to learn that is not “book learning.”  It is about spending time with the kite on the snow getting the feel of how it powers up and how to boost the rockin’ big air.  True, you’re heavier, but bigger isn’t always the answer.  Bigger is slower, and that will cost you pop. My 190lbs ass has taken that vary kite you own and been over 30 feet in a 12-15 mph wind.  So maybe you won’t hit 30ft, but is 25 too small for you?  It IS in the way you stroke her. Next time we go up, come with me, and I will make you shit your pants.  It’s like going up wind, it seems like you just can’t do it ‘till all of sudden you make the connection.  Next thing you know, you’re jumping like the big dogs.

           

          REMEMBER; YOU ARE JUST FIGURING THIS OUT.  How many rides so far? 10?  You’re WAY ahead of the curve!  Some guys kite for 2-3 years before they get off the ground.

           

          Darrel

           

          From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Wait
          Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:53 PM
          To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

           

          Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI's on the snow. I can be pumped and riding within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as you will ever need. Most kite makers stop around 16-18 meter. Beyond that kites are super slow flying turds. You are not the only 260 lb kiter. for snow you need to get bigger floaty skiis, and for the water your favor board size is going to be big, 145cm x 44cm ish. I watched a 270 lb guy who's belly was hanging over his spreader bar catch air on a 14m frenzy in 9 mph winds. Guys half his size could not keep a 14m in the air. Skill is everything. 
           
          BTW- All the foil boys riding 15m are good riders, they will usually put up a 15m, but would have been fine on a 10m or 12m. All the Manta guys are putting up a 15m in 4-25 mph. 5 years ago they would have been on a 10m in winds over 20 mph.
           
          Loft is a function of wind speed, kite size, and body mass. with the right winds a 12 meter will give you more loft than your shorts can handle. 
           
          Cheers,
          RTW


          To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
          From: jaunemaillot@...
          Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
          Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

          So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
          not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
          "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
          Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm screwed.

          I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
          200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
          260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.

          So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
          note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?

          grin

          --
          o
          <|v
          / >

          o
          <|}\
          / >

          O
          <@>
          / \

           


          Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

        • Jason Brickner
          TRUE... TRUE... TRUE.... Darrel couldn t have said it better. I struggled for 3 years in the water at lucky peak before it clicked. I can;t tell you how
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            TRUE... TRUE... TRUE....
             
            Darrel couldn't have said it better.  I struggled for 3 years in the water at lucky peak before it clicked.  I  can;t tell you how many times I did the walk of shame.  You should be happy you're out ripping it up already. 
             
            The cool thing is though, once you get 'dialed' it's like riding a bike. 
             
            Cheers...
            -Jason


            From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darrel Thomas
            Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM
            To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

            Dave,

            There IS a learning curve.  Fuck the math.  I could jump over Eddy with a 12m.  There is a lot to learn that is not “book learning.”  It is about spending time with the kite on the snow getting the feel of how it powers up and how to boost the rockin’ big air.  True, you’re heavier, but bigger isn’t always the answer.  Bigger is slower, and that will cost you pop. My 190lbs ass has taken that vary kite you own and been over 30 feet in a 12-15 mph wind.  So maybe you won’t hit 30ft, but is 25 too small for you?  It IS in the way you stroke her. Next time we go up, come with me, and I will make you shit your pants.  It’s like going up wind, it seems like you just can’t do it ‘till all of sudden you make the connection.  Next thing you know, you’re jumping like the big dogs.

            REMEMBER; YOU ARE JUST FIGURING THIS OUT.  How many rides so far? 10?  You’re WAY ahead of the curve!  Some guys kite for 2-3 years before they get off the ground.

            Darrel

            From: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:snowkiteida ho@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ryan Wait
            Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:53 PM
            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

            Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI's on the snow. I can be pumped and riding within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as you will ever need. Most kite makers stop around 16-18 meter. Beyond that kites are super slow flying turds. You are not the only 260 lb kiter. for snow you need to get bigger floaty skiis, and for the water your favor board size is going to be big, 145cm x 44cm ish. I watched a 270 lb guy who's belly was hanging over his spreader bar catch air on a 14m frenzy in 9 mph winds. Guys half his size could not keep a 14m in the air. Skill is everything. 
             
            BTW- All the foil boys riding 15m are good riders, they will usually put up a 15m, but would have been fine on a 10m or 12m. All the Manta guys are putting up a 15m in 4-25 mph. 5 years ago they would have been on a 10m in winds over 20 mph.
             
            Loft is a function of wind speed, kite size, and body mass. with the right winds a 12 meter will give you more loft than your shorts can handle. 
             
            Cheers,
            RTW


            To: snowkiteidaho@ yahoogroups. com
            From: jaunemaillot@ gmail.com
            Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
            Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

            So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
            not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
            "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
            Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm screwed.

            I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
            200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
            260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.

            So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
            note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?

            grin

            --
            o
            <|v
            / >

            o
            <|}\
            / >

            O
            <@>
            / \


            Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

          • fernmanus
            I agree that technique is more important than the size of the kite. However, I do think that the SA2 is a secret weapon for light wind riding for kiters that
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              I agree that technique is more important than the size of the kite. However, I do think
              that the SA2 is a secret weapon for light wind riding for kiters that weigh over 170 LBS.

              It is true that big kites are slower, but for light winds they are sometimes the only thing
              that works. I have been kiting for 8 years. I can't tell you how many sessions I have had
              where the SLC crew is standing on the shore waiting for the wind to come up and I am
              riding and boosting. Half of my sessions last year were solo because the forecast was on
              the light side, so no one else bothered to drive to the lake.

              A lot of riders have the attitude that light wind riding is no fun, but we live inland where
              the wind is not light and steady. It is light and gusty. So the trick is to have a big enough
              kite and board to ride through the lulls and then boost in the gusts. So on a typical
              session I go out and ride back and forth in 8 mph wind, the wind gusts to 12 and I throw a
              double backroll.

              Last weekend I went to Strawberry another kiter could not get his kite in the air because
              the wind was blowing around 8. Threw up my kite and had enough power to ride. I could
              not boost, but that was solved by riding up a nearby hill and gliding off. 50 feet in the air
              in 8 mph, all you need is a steep hill and an oversized kite.

              I am no foil junky. Most of my kites are LEI's. However, for the light stuff, nothing beats a
              big foil built with light fabric. It has doubled the number of days I have had on the water
              and increased my days on the snow by 25%.



              --- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Brickner" <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
              >
              > TRUE... TRUE... TRUE....
              >
              > Darrel couldn't have said it better. I struggled for 3 years in the water
              > at lucky peak before it clicked. I can;t tell you how many times I did the
              > walk of shame. You should be happy you're out ripping it up already.
              >
              > The cool thing is though, once you get 'dialed' it's like riding a bike.
              >
              > Cheers...
              > -Jason
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Darrel Thomas
              > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM
              > To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Dave,
              >
              > There IS a learning curve. Fuck the math. I could jump over Eddy with a
              > 12m. There is a lot to learn that is not "book learning." It is about
              > spending time with the kite on the snow getting the feel of how it powers up
              > and how to boost the rockin' big air. True, you're heavier, but bigger
              > isn't always the answer. Bigger is slower, and that will cost you pop. My
              > 190lbs ass has taken that vary kite you own and been over 30 feet in a 12-15
              > mph wind. So maybe you won't hit 30ft, but is 25 too small for you? It IS
              > in the way you stroke her. Next time we go up, come with me, and I will make
              > you shit your pants. It's like going up wind, it seems like you just can't
              > do it 'till all of sudden you make the connection. Next thing you know,
              > you're jumping like the big dogs.
              >
              > REMEMBER; YOU ARE JUST FIGURING THIS OUT. How many rides so far? 10?
              > You're WAY ahead of the curve! Some guys kite for 2-3 years before they get
              > off the ground.
              >
              > Darrel
              >
              > From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Ryan Wait
              > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:53 PM
              > To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
              >
              > Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI's on the snow. I can be pumped and riding
              > within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as
              > you will ever need. Most kite makers stop around 16-18 meter. Beyond that
              > kites are super slow flying turds. You are not the only 260 lb kiter. for
              > snow you need to get bigger floaty skiis, and for the water your favor board
              > size is going to be big, 145cm x 44cm ish. I watched a 270 lb guy who's
              > belly was hanging over his spreader bar catch air on a 14m frenzy in 9 mph
              > winds. Guys half his size could not keep a 14m in the air. Skill is
              > everything.
              >
              > BTW- All the foil boys riding 15m are good riders, they will usually put up
              > a 15m, but would have been fine on a 10m or 12m. All the Manta guys are
              > putting up a 15m in 4-25 mph. 5 years ago they would have been on a 10m in
              > winds over 20 mph.
              >
              > Loft is a function of wind speed, kite size, and body mass. with the right
              > winds a 12 meter will give you more loft than your shorts can handle.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > RTW
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
              > From: jaunemaillot@...
              > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
              > Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
              >
              > So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
              > not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
              > "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
              > Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm
              > screwed.
              >
              > I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
              > 200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
              > 260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.
              >
              > So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
              > note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?
              >
              > grin
              >
              > --
              > o
              > <|v
              > / >
              >
              > o
              > <|}\
              > / >
              >
              > O
              > <@>
              > / \
              >
              > _____
              >
              > Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.
              > <http://biggestloser.msn.com/>
              >
            • Andrew Goldman
              http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html What a weekend. Thank you for supporting. See you next year.
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 25, 2008
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                http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html

                What a weekend. Thank you for supporting. See you
                next year.


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              • Andrew Goldman
                http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html What a weekend. Thank you for supporting. See you next year.
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 26, 2008
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                  http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html

                  What a weekend. Thank you for supporting. See you
                  next year.


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