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Re: Matriarchy

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  • Gary
    From Wikipedia A feature of Ladakhi society that distinguishes it from the rest of the state is the high status and relative emancipation enjoyed by women
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 10, 2011
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      From Wikipedia

      A feature of Ladakhi society that distinguishes it from the rest of the state is the high status and relative emancipation enjoyed by women compared to other rural parts of India. Fraternal polyandry and inheritance by primogeniture were common in Ladakh until the early 1940s when these were made illegal by the government of Jammu and Kashmir, although they still exist in some areas.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladakh

      --- In smygo@yahoogroups.com, "karma" <karmagetiton@...> wrote:
      >
      > Matriarchy still exists in Ladakh, a tiny 'queendom' in the Indian state of Kashmir, bordering with Tibet. The ruler is always a woman. Family names and property are passed on from mother to daughter and women may marry as many men as they like. Men have a servile status and are shy while the women are sexually aggressive. They are a peaceful people and their vocabulary contains no word for theft. The first theft in their history was carried out by the first British cop stationed there.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Gary
      > To: smygo@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 6:48 AM
      > Subject: [smygo] Matriarchy
      >
      >
      >
      > "There are no known societies that are unambiguously matriarchal, although there are attested matrilinear, matrilocal, and avunculocal societies, especially among indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa, such as those of the Minangkabau, E De (Rhade), Mosuo, Berbers and Tuareg and, in Europe, Basques and Sardinian people. Strongly matrilocal societies sometimes are referred to as matrifocal, and there is some debate concerning the terminological delineation between matrifocality and matriarchy. Even in patriarchical systems of male-preference primogeniture, there may occasionally be queens regnant, as in the case of Elizabeth I of England.
      >
      > In 19th century Western scholarship, the hypothesis of matriarchy representing an early stage of human development-now mostly lost in prehistory, with the exception of some "primitive" societies-enjoyed popularity. The hypothesis survived into the 20th century and was notably advanced in the context of feminism and especially second wave feminism, but this hypothesis of matriarchy as having been an early stage of human development is mostly discredited today, most experts saying that it never existed."
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • karma
      I wish there was more information online. It s an incredible culture in a very hostile environment (extreme altitude where movement is prohibitive for
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 11, 2011
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        I wish there was more information online. It's an incredible culture in a very hostile environment (extreme altitude where movement is prohibitive for newcomers, little water - farming is mainly in the valley where the Indus river begins). Family wealth is primarily controlled by the women, mainly in huge turquoise necklaces passed on from mother to daughter.

        http://kirbymoore.wordpress.com/page/16/?pages-list

        "Something else note-worthy: the trip guide and the pilgrimage leader (both males) remarked that Ladakh is a matriarchy, though hidden behind a patriarchal front. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhist religion (the primary religion of Ladakh), the lamas and teachers are primarily males. However, the reason for their saying that the women hold a lot of power is that the women, through their jewelry, possess the wealth in Ladakh. This is definitely noticeable (see the upcoming post about the Ladakhi wedding). Some of the jewelry is very elaborate and the cobra-hoods of turquoise and other precious stones are just incredible - sometimes weighing up to 7 kilograms!"



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Gary
        To: smygo@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 10:06 PM
        Subject: [smygo] Re: Matriarchy



        From Wikipedia

        A feature of Ladakhi society that distinguishes it from the rest of the state is the high status and relative emancipation enjoyed by women compared to other rural parts of India. Fraternal polyandry and inheritance by primogeniture were common in Ladakh until the early 1940s when these were made illegal by the government of Jammu and Kashmir, although they still exist in some areas.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladakh

        --- In smygo@yahoogroups.com, "karma" <karmagetiton@...> wrote:
        >
        > Matriarchy still exists in Ladakh, a tiny 'queendom' in the Indian state of Kashmir, bordering with Tibet. The ruler is always a woman. Family names and property are passed on from mother to daughter and women may marry as many men as they like. Men have a servile status and are shy while the women are sexually aggressive. They are a peaceful people and their vocabulary contains no word for theft. The first theft in their history was carried out by the first British cop stationed there.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Gary
        > To: smygo@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 6:48 AM
        > Subject: [smygo] Matriarchy
        >
        >
        >
        > "There are no known societies that are unambiguously matriarchal, although there are attested matrilinear, matrilocal, and avunculocal societies, especially among indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa, such as those of the Minangkabau, E De (Rhade), Mosuo, Berbers and Tuareg and, in Europe, Basques and Sardinian people. Strongly matrilocal societies sometimes are referred to as matrifocal, and there is some debate concerning the terminological delineation between matrifocality and matriarchy. Even in patriarchical systems of male-preference primogeniture, there may occasionally be queens regnant, as in the case of Elizabeth I of England.
        >
        > In 19th century Western scholarship, the hypothesis of matriarchy representing an early stage of human development-now mostly lost in prehistory, with the exception of some "primitive" societies-enjoyed popularity. The hypothesis survived into the 20th century and was notably advanced in the context of feminism and especially second wave feminism, but this hypothesis of matriarchy as having been an early stage of human development is mostly discredited today, most experts saying that it never existed."
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gary
        http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/matriarchy.aspx I have been to India but not that part, so I can t say much more about the subject of matriarchy in Ladakh.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 12, 2011
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          http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/matriarchy.aspx

          I have been to India but not that part, so I can't say much more about the subject of matriarchy in Ladakh. If it is a hidden matriarchy then it is not politically powerful. Lots of societies have wealth displayed on women.

          --- In smygo@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <garyrumor2@...> wrote:
          >
          > From Wikipedia
          >
          > A feature of Ladakhi society that distinguishes it from the rest of the state is the high status and relative emancipation enjoyed by women compared to other rural parts of India. Fraternal polyandry and inheritance by primogeniture were common in Ladakh until the early 1940s when these were made illegal by the government of Jammu and Kashmir, although they still exist in some areas.
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladakh
          >
          > --- In smygo@yahoogroups.com, "karma" <karmagetiton@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Matriarchy still exists in Ladakh, a tiny 'queendom' in the Indian state of Kashmir, bordering with Tibet. The ruler is always a woman. Family names and property are passed on from mother to daughter and women may marry as many men as they like. Men have a servile status and are shy while the women are sexually aggressive. They are a peaceful people and their vocabulary contains no word for theft. The first theft in their history was carried out by the first British cop stationed there.
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Gary
          > > To: smygo@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 6:48 AM
          > > Subject: [smygo] Matriarchy
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > "There are no known societies that are unambiguously matriarchal, although there are attested matrilinear, matrilocal, and avunculocal societies, especially among indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa, such as those of the Minangkabau, E De (Rhade), Mosuo, Berbers and Tuareg and, in Europe, Basques and Sardinian people. Strongly matrilocal societies sometimes are referred to as matrifocal, and there is some debate concerning the terminological delineation between matrifocality and matriarchy. Even in patriarchical systems of male-preference primogeniture, there may occasionally be queens regnant, as in the case of Elizabeth I of England.
          > >
          > > In 19th century Western scholarship, the hypothesis of matriarchy representing an early stage of human development-now mostly lost in prehistory, with the exception of some "primitive" societies-enjoyed popularity. The hypothesis survived into the 20th century and was notably advanced in the context of feminism and especially second wave feminism, but this hypothesis of matriarchy as having been an early stage of human development is mostly discredited today, most experts saying that it never existed."
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • karma
          i went there when they first allowed foreign visitors and it is powerful. within their society. given that it is a tiny island contained within a large muslim
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 12, 2011
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            i went there when they first allowed foreign visitors and it is powerful. within their society. given that it is a tiny island contained within a large muslim majority state, who do not look favorably toward them.

            the men are all shy and meek and the women are raunchy and will whistle at tourist men and grab their asses in public with no problem! :)


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Gary
            To: smygo@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 8:43 PM
            Subject: [smygo] Re: Matriarchy



            http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/matriarchy.aspx

            I have been to India but not that part, so I can't say much more about the subject of matriarchy in Ladakh. If it is a hidden matriarchy then it is not politically powerful. Lots of societies have wealth displayed on women.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andy Robinson
            There s a couple of eco-anarchist documentaries on Ladakh, Ancient Futures: Learning from Ladakh / Paradise with Side Effects .
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 14, 2011
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              There's a couple of eco-anarchist documentaries on Ladakh, "Ancient Futures:
              Learning from Ladakh" / "Paradise with Side Effects".
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_-UeifKAZM and
              http://www.greenplanetstream.org/environmental-injustice/paradise-with-side-effects/

              Since most of the differences between men and women are social rather than
              biological, it's unclear if matriarchy would be any different from
              patriarchy in terms of any aspect of social life other than gender relations
              - it would depend which characteristics were identified as 'masculine' and
              'feminine' in the society, and which of these characteristics conferred
              power on women. Also, be careful about seeing chief/shaman/king-queen roles
              in indigenous social groups as substantive power - they're often specialised
              ritual positions with more obligations than benefits.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gary
              Interesting. video. I liked the emphasis on production. The way the villagers live is like a group of us tried in the 1970 s. We had a large communal center
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 15, 2011
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                Interesting. video. I liked the emphasis on production. The way the villagers live is like a group of us tried in the 1970's. We had a large communal center and lots of smaller ones, we grew food and raised chickens, goats and sheep or cattle depending on the climate of the particular group. At its height there were about 20,000 people involved. It was a spiritual group. I left because I got tired of living as if the rest of society didn't exist.
                --- In smygo@yahoogroups.com, Andy Robinson <ldxar1@...> wrote:
                >
                > There's a couple of eco-anarchist documentaries on Ladakh, "Ancient Futures:
                > Learning from Ladakh" / "Paradise with Side Effects".
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_-UeifKAZM and
                > http://www.greenplanetstream.org/environmental-injustice/paradise-with-side-effects/
                >
                > Since most of the differences between men and women are social rather than
                > biological, it's unclear if matriarchy would be any different from
                > patriarchy in terms of any aspect of social life other than gender relations
                > - it would depend which characteristics were identified as 'masculine' and
                > 'feminine' in the society, and which of these characteristics conferred
                > power on women. Also, be careful about seeing chief/shaman/king-queen roles
                > in indigenous social groups as substantive power - they're often specialised
                > ritual positions with more obligations than benefits.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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