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Re: IV-17 Smartsockets

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  • fixitsan2
    Hi John, I ve already tried persuading Sure but they aren t going to go for it. I did get the price down very low so there is very little business in it for
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 14, 2011
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      Hi John,
      I've already tried persuading Sure but they aren't going to go for it. I did get the price down very low so there is very little business in it for them for low volume orders.

      I don't know if 30V is enough, maybe of the tubes were muxed more slowly and definitely if the tubes were direct drive then yes it probably would work but I feel 30V is just a tad too dim when you see them running.

      I'm considering this sort of supply
      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-3-40V-Out-5-40V-Adjustable-DC-DC-Step-up-Converter-/120749244764?pt=Camera_Cables_Cords&hash=item1c1d37415c

      The boards have power feed-thru tracks, so if you were connecting 3 or 4 boards together all of them could be supplied from the first one's 40V supply. In multiple board installations it is more cost effective to use 1 robust supply for all boards, rather than each board being fitted with it's own lower power 40V supply.

      Horses for courses.

      Chris
    • Quixotic Nixotic
      ... Chris, I am still very interested. I think we have been watching Guus s progress with the fuse settings with interest. I suppose nobody wanted to be the
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 16, 2011
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        On 14 Oct 2011, at 09:37, fixitsan2 wrote:
        > I have noticed that the IV-17 sockets have had virtually no
        > interest for a long time, apart from a message I received this week
        > about them and so I have decided to try to make something out of
        > the project for myself.
        >

        Chris, I am still very interested. I think we have been watching
        Guus's progress with the fuse settings with interest. I suppose
        nobody wanted to be the guinea pig for this project and for my part
        it went on the back-burner for health reasons.

        Once there is a proven system in operation I am sure people will jump
        at the chance to fire up some of their tubes up. Don't lose heart.

        I have maybe a dozen or so of these tubes waiting to do something. So
        put me down for some boards please.

        I had good success amending the famous 555 timer circuit to put out
        adjustable 40v, so I don't think there would be a problem using that.
        I have a bunch of those el-cheapo Goldmine boards here. As far as I
        remember Konstantin of Kosbo fame said the diodes and caps can be
        reversed to give the right polarity voltages, but they are fixed at 30v.

        Do we need an AC filament drive or can we drop some 5v to drive them?

        Best wishes,

        John S
      • fixitsan2
        ... Hi John ... I couldn t understand why Guus had a problem using the Pickit2 and the code I produced. I used 2 seperate programmers, two PCs and two
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 17, 2011
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          --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
          >

          Hi John

          > Chris, I am still very interested. I think we have been watching
          > Guus's progress with the fuse settings with interest. I suppose
          > nobody wanted to be the guinea pig for this project and for my part
          > it went on the back-burner for health reasons.

          I couldn't understand why Guus had a problem using the Pickit2 and the code I produced. I used 2 seperate programmers, two PCs and two different pics and programming went fine both times for me. Th efuses are in the Hex file which gets read by the Pickit 2, which also allows you to alter the config bits before burning the code onto the pic.

          I know Guus has a lot of experience so I assumed he was going to work it out. I know it's a cliche, but it worked for me.


          >
          > Once there is a proven system in operation I am sure people will jump
          > at the chance to fire up some of their tubes up. Don't lose heart.
          >

          I don't mind, I have a few tubes I don't need and just thought that while nobody else is actively selling kits or boards I would do it myself, until the tubes are gone. It has been fully working since V12 code was released, but I wanted to wait to see if anyone else was going to jump on it like with previous versions of sockets, plus I have been very busy myself to do anything until now.


          > I have maybe a dozen or so of these tubes waiting to do something. So
          > put me down for some boards please.


          Okay John, if you can find a way to thread the tubes into the boards which is quick and easy i will even give you a set of boards for free ! That is probably the hardest thing to do, the SMD soldering is not too bad.



          >
          > I had good success amending the famous 555 timer circuit to put out
          > adjustable 40v, so I don't think there would be a problem using that.
          > I have a bunch of those el-cheapo Goldmine boards here. As far as I
          > remember Konstantin of Kosbo fame said the diodes and caps can be
          > reversed to give the right polarity voltages, but they are fixed at 30v.

          Now the subject has come up I am wondering if I can get the voltage requirement down to 30 or 35V. It would be great if I can do that. The mux frequency is the variable which currently determines the voltage requirement. I can easily lower the frequency simply by removing fading effects, but I don't want to have to do that.



          >
          > Do we need an AC filament drive or can we drop some 5v to drive them?
          >

          It seems to me that it all depends on if you're a purist or not. Hi Hi.
          AC filament drive was favoured because if you have a long display with a single or multple linear filaments, then the difference in voltage beteen one end of the filament and the screen, compared to the difference in voltage between the other end of the filament and the screen, when using DC, is noticeable, and produces a gradient effect in terms of brightness.

          With a lower voltage for the anodes and screen of, say, 25V and approx 2.5V for the filament, one end of the filament will have a differential of 22.5V and the other end 25V.

          If the filament is folded as it is in the IV-17 tubes, then the bottom left of the filament is at 25v below screen voltage, Vbb, and the bottom right is 22.5V below Vbb. However , the filaments do not just emit electrons in to region directly underneath them but also out to the sides too, which means there is a mixing of the effect where the two ends of the filaments are. invariably, one side receives more electrons than the other but the effect isn't as strong as if the filament were unfolded in a straight in a linear tube.

          The gradient effect is made even less noticeable because of the use of a higher Vbb. With 25V Vbb the gradient is 2.5/25 = 10%, but with 40V the gradient is only 2.5/40 = 6.25%, which is imperceivable in terms of brightness. Perhaps when the tubes reach the end of their lives there will be a noticeable difference, if you knew to look for it.

          > Best wishes,
          >
          > John S
          >

          Nice to hear from you,

          Chris
        • Mark Van Kannel
          If it helps your descision whether to jump in and make kits, I m interested in 5 to 7 four letter word kits (tubeless) as I have the tubes. Mark
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 17, 2011
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            If it helps your descision whether to jump in and make kits, I'm interested in 5 to 7 "four letter word" kits (tubeless) as I have the tubes.
             
            Mark
             
          • Quixotic Nixotic
            ... I know what you mean. I sometimes work from front to back or back to front of the tube, trimming the leads on the diagonal with a pair of scissors before I
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 17, 2011
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              On 17 Oct 2011, at 10:23, fixitsan2 wrote:

              > Okay John, if you can find a way to thread the tubes into the
              > boards which is quick and easy i will even give you a set of boards
              > for free ! That is probably the hardest thing to do, the SMD
              > soldering is not too bad.
              >
              I know what you mean. I sometimes work from front to back or back to
              front of the tube, trimming the leads on the diagonal with a pair of
              scissors before I attempt to insert. I can then thread the leads
              through in handed pairs as each pair is shorter than the last.

              Otherwise all you can do is hold the tube on a diagonal and attempt
              to insert in a similar way. But usually this method simply pings pins
              back out as you try to jiggle others in.

              I wonder if there is a slide-on jig that could be made, like a comb,
              that would allow the tube leads to be trimmed on the diagonal easily
              - I'll have a little thinkette about that.

              John S
            • michail1@aol.com
              I also would be interested in several kits as well. ESPECIALLY if stackable (meaning if we could attach each 4 tube board together to run strings for
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 17, 2011
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                I also would be interested in several kits as well.  ESPECIALLY if stackable (meaning if we could attach each 4 tube board together to run strings for text/signs, etc.
                 
                 
                Michail
                 
                 
                In a message dated 10/17/2011 4:45:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, vankanma@... writes:
                If it helps your descision whether to jump in and make kits, I'm interested in 5 to 7 "four letter word" kits (tubeless) as I have the tubes.
                 
                Mark
              • fixitsan2
                ... I sometimes work from front to back or back to ... I ve thought about combing them straight, it will definitely make it easier. A jig would be great, a
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                  --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
                  I sometimes work from front to back or back to
                  > front of the tube, trimming the leads on the diagonal with a pair of
                  > scissors before I attempt to insert. I can then thread the leads
                  > through in handed pairs as each pair is shorter than the last.
                  >
                  > Otherwise all you can do is hold the tube on a diagonal and attempt
                  > to insert in a similar way. But usually this method simply pings pins
                  > back out as you try to jiggle others in.
                  >
                  > I wonder if there is a slide-on jig that could be made, like a comb,
                  > that would allow the tube leads to be trimmed on the diagonal easily
                  > - I'll have a little thinkette about that.
                  >
                  > John S
                  >

                  I've thought about combing them straight, it will definitely make it easier.
                  A jig would be great, a real luxury and might cost luxury prices to make. If I had retained the circular footprint then I could have had something made up, but the footprint on the board is rectangular.

                  The easiest way I have found so far is to use snipe nosed pliers to thread each wire down each hole, it seems to work best for now
                • fixitsan2
                  ... Mark, I don t have any FLW drivers yet. The Smartsocket interfaces 4 IV17 tubes to a serial data stream. Once the kit is finalised I will look towards
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                    --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Van Kannel" <vankanma@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > If it helps your descision whether to jump in and make kits, I'm interested in 5 to 7 "four letter word" kits (tubeless) as I have the tubes.
                    >
                    > Mark
                    >

                    Mark, I don't have any FLW drivers yet.
                    The Smartsocket interfaces 4 IV17 tubes to a serial data stream. Once the kit is finalised I will look towards making something to drive the Smartsocket in order to emulate a FLW.

                    Chris
                  • fixitsan2
                    ... Michail The kits stack. The PCBs have been designed so that when the kits are side by side uniform tube spacing is maintained. You can stack upto 252 tubes
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                      --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, michail1@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I also would be interested in several kits as well. ESPECIALLY if
                      > stackable (meaning if we could attach each 4 tube board together to run strings
                      > for text/signs, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > Michail
                      >
                      >

                      Michail
                      The kits stack.
                      The PCBs have been designed so that when the kits are side by side uniform tube spacing is maintained.
                      You can stack upto 252 tubes this way

                      Chris
                    • Garrett Stewart
                      I have a question regarding the IV-17 SS, I know that it is designed for and more expressly fits the footprint of the IV-17, but given that an IV-12 has
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                        I have a question regarding the IV-17 SS, I know that it is designed for
                        and more expressly fits the footprint of the IV-17, but given that an
                        IV-12 has similar specifications, would it be possible to utilize the
                        IV-17 SS with IV-12 tubes (I know they wouldn't fit in the sockets
                        themselves, but that can be fixed with some rewiring.)? I'm kind of new
                        to all of this, but looking at the specifications I don't think it would
                        be impossible.
                      • michail1@aol.com
                        Then count me in for some as well. What sucks is I bought about 16 7971 smart sockets. Assembled half and did nothing with them. I know, it s a shame.
                        Message 11 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                          Then count me in for some as well.
                           
                          What sucks is I bought about 16 7971 smart sockets.  Assembled half and did nothing with them.  I know, it's a shame.  Hopefully will not do the same with the IV17 kits.   :)
                           
                          Michail
                           
                          In a message dated 10/18/2011 6:18:37 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fixitsan@... writes:
                          Michail
                          The kits stack.
                          The PCBs have been designed so that when the kits are side by side uniform tube spacing is maintained.
                          You can stack upto 252 tubes this way

                          Chris
                        • fixitsan2
                          ... Hello Garrett It is perfectly possible to modify the existing IV17SS to run other VFD tubes, it requires a different tube deck PCB. It s no biggy to do it,
                          Message 12 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                            --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Garrett Stewart <zero@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have a question regarding the IV-17 SS, I know that it is designed for
                            > and more expressly fits the footprint of the IV-17, but given that an
                            > IV-12 has similar specifications, would it be possible to utilize the
                            > IV-17 SS with IV-12 tubes (I know they wouldn't fit in the sockets
                            > themselves, but that can be fixed with some rewiring.)? I'm kind of new
                            > to all of this, but looking at the specifications I don't think it would
                            > be impossible.
                            >

                            Hello Garrett
                            It is perfectly possible to modify the existing IV17SS to run other VFD tubes, it requires a different tube deck PCB. It's no biggy to do it, I just don't know when I will get around to doing it.

                            Great idea though, I could use a standard control board and have interchangeable display boards, then it would simply be a case of loading the controller with the appropriate software.

                            If you're looking for an IV-12 project in a rush, there are some good ones already, such as
                            http://axio.ms/projects/russian_lighty_uppy_thing/

                            Chris
                          • fixitsan2
                            ... Hello Garrett It is perfectly possible to modify the existing IV17SS to run other VFD tubes, it requires a different tube deck PCB. It s no biggy to do it,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Oct 18, 2011
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                              --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Garrett Stewart <zero@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have a question regarding the IV-17 SS, I know that it is designed for
                              > and more expressly fits the footprint of the IV-17, but given that an
                              > IV-12 has similar specifications, would it be possible to utilize the
                              > IV-17 SS with IV-12 tubes (I know they wouldn't fit in the sockets
                              > themselves, but that can be fixed with some rewiring.)? I'm kind of new
                              > to all of this, but looking at the specifications I don't think it would
                              > be impossible.
                              >

                              Hello Garrett
                              It is perfectly possible to modify the existing IV17SS to run other VFD tubes, it requires a different tube deck PCB. It's no biggy to do it, I just don't know when I will get around to doing it.

                              Great idea though, I could use a standard control board and have interchangeable display boards, then it would simply be a case of loading the controller with the appropriate software.

                              If you're looking for an IV-12 project in a rush, there are some good ones already, such as
                              http://axio.ms/projects/russian_lighty_uppy_thing/

                              Chris
                            • black_petal
                              Chris you said you had some IV-17 tubes also are you going to sell kits with tubes ? thanks mike
                              Message 14 of 28 , Nov 19, 2011
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                                Chris

                                you said you had some IV-17 tubes also are you going to sell kits with tubes ?

                                thanks
                                mike

                                --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "fixitsan2" <fixitsan@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@> wrote:
                                > >
                                >
                                > Hi John
                                >
                                > > Chris, I am still very interested. I think we have been watching
                                > > Guus's progress with the fuse settings with interest. I suppose
                                > > nobody wanted to be the guinea pig for this project and for my part
                                > > it went on the back-burner for health reasons.
                                >
                                > I couldn't understand why Guus had a problem using the Pickit2 and the code I produced. I used 2 seperate programmers, two PCs and two different pics and programming went fine both times for me. Th efuses are in the Hex file which gets read by the Pickit 2, which also allows you to alter the config bits before burning the code onto the pic.
                                >
                                > I know Guus has a lot of experience so I assumed he was going to work it out. I know it's a cliche, but it worked for me.
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > > Once there is a proven system in operation I am sure people will jump
                                > > at the chance to fire up some of their tubes up. Don't lose heart.
                                > >
                                >
                                > I don't mind, I have a few tubes I don't need and just thought that while nobody else is actively selling kits or boards I would do it myself, until the tubes are gone. It has been fully working since V12 code was released, but I wanted to wait to see if anyone else was going to jump on it like with previous versions of sockets, plus I have been very busy myself to do anything until now.
                                >
                                >
                                > > I have maybe a dozen or so of these tubes waiting to do something. So
                                > > put me down for some boards please.
                                >
                                >
                                > Okay John, if you can find a way to thread the tubes into the boards which is quick and easy i will even give you a set of boards for free ! That is probably the hardest thing to do, the SMD soldering is not too bad.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > > I had good success amending the famous 555 timer circuit to put out
                                > > adjustable 40v, so I don't think there would be a problem using that.
                                > > I have a bunch of those el-cheapo Goldmine boards here. As far as I
                                > > remember Konstantin of Kosbo fame said the diodes and caps can be
                                > > reversed to give the right polarity voltages, but they are fixed at 30v.
                                >
                                > Now the subject has come up I am wondering if I can get the voltage requirement down to 30 or 35V. It would be great if I can do that. The mux frequency is the variable which currently determines the voltage requirement. I can easily lower the frequency simply by removing fading effects, but I don't want to have to do that.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > > Do we need an AC filament drive or can we drop some 5v to drive them?
                                > >
                                >
                                > It seems to me that it all depends on if you're a purist or not. Hi Hi.
                                > AC filament drive was favoured because if you have a long display with a single or multple linear filaments, then the difference in voltage beteen one end of the filament and the screen, compared to the difference in voltage between the other end of the filament and the screen, when using DC, is noticeable, and produces a gradient effect in terms of brightness.
                                >
                                > With a lower voltage for the anodes and screen of, say, 25V and approx 2.5V for the filament, one end of the filament will have a differential of 22.5V and the other end 25V.
                                >
                                > If the filament is folded as it is in the IV-17 tubes, then the bottom left of the filament is at 25v below screen voltage, Vbb, and the bottom right is 22.5V below Vbb. However , the filaments do not just emit electrons in to region directly underneath them but also out to the sides too, which means there is a mixing of the effect where the two ends of the filaments are. invariably, one side receives more electrons than the other but the effect isn't as strong as if the filament were unfolded in a straight in a linear tube.
                                >
                                > The gradient effect is made even less noticeable because of the use of a higher Vbb. With 25V Vbb the gradient is 2.5/25 = 10%, but with 40V the gradient is only 2.5/40 = 6.25%, which is imperceivable in terms of brightness. Perhaps when the tubes reach the end of their lives there will be a noticeable difference, if you knew to look for it.
                                >
                                > > Best wishes,
                                > >
                                > > John S
                                > >
                                >
                                > Nice to hear from you,
                                >
                                > Chris
                                >
                              • fixitsan2
                                ... Yes Mike :) I have a few tubes, I will be selling them soon. Michail, I have 75 pairs of PCB s which just arrived :) I am stocking up with parts and just
                                Message 15 of 28 , Nov 19, 2011
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                                  --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "black_petal" <logan714@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Chris
                                  >
                                  > you said you had some IV-17 tubes also are you going to sell kits with tubes ?
                                  >
                                  > thanks
                                  > mike

                                  Yes Mike :)
                                  I have a few tubes, I will be selling them soon.

                                  Michail, I have 75 pairs of PCB's which just arrived :)
                                  I am stocking up with parts and just need to wait another week or so before the last few parts arrive in order to make up kits.

                                  The parts I am waiting for are pin headers and receptacles, which will allow the two boards to be seperated and reconnected without desoldering anything.

                                  I'm also waiting for new programmer. A pickit 2 clone arrived this week and did not recognise any device I tried to program, I put it down to bad luck and bought another from the same seller while the other was going back for a refund. But he refused to send it to me because he 'suspected my circuit was faulty'.

                                  I then got a lecture about the importance of fitting a 22uF cap across the supply pins when programming (Yes, really !). I suggested he refunded my money if he was going to bicker over the second one. He refunded it, but still bickered.

                                  I'm just waiting for a genuine Mchip Pickit 3 to arrive any day.

                                  Chris
                                • black_petal
                                  cool Chris as soon as i get some$$ i love to get some tubes and boards mike
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Nov 19, 2011
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                                    cool Chris
                                    as soon as i get some$$ i love to get some tubes and boards

                                    mike

                                    --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "fixitsan2" <fixitsan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "black_petal" <logan714@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Chris
                                    > >
                                    > > you said you had some IV-17 tubes also are you going to sell kits with tubes ?
                                    > >
                                    > > thanks
                                    > > mike
                                    >
                                    > Yes Mike :)
                                    > I have a few tubes, I will be selling them soon.
                                    >
                                    > Michail, I have 75 pairs of PCB's which just arrived :)
                                    > I am stocking up with parts and just need to wait another week or so before the last few parts arrive in order to make up kits.
                                    >
                                    > The parts I am waiting for are pin headers and receptacles, which will allow the two boards to be seperated and reconnected without desoldering anything.
                                    >
                                    > I'm also waiting for new programmer. A pickit 2 clone arrived this week and did not recognise any device I tried to program, I put it down to bad luck and bought another from the same seller while the other was going back for a refund. But he refused to send it to me because he 'suspected my circuit was faulty'.
                                    >
                                    > I then got a lecture about the importance of fitting a 22uF cap across the supply pins when programming (Yes, really !). I suggested he refunded my money if he was going to bicker over the second one. He refunded it, but still bickered.
                                    >
                                    > I'm just waiting for a genuine Mchip Pickit 3 to arrive any day.
                                    >
                                    > Chris
                                    >
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