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[s-w-h] Re: Introduction and my latest alternative energy project

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  • West_Texas
    Persistence pays off. I found a repair shop far removed from here that did not balk at rewinding a brushed DC generator and they agreed to rewind it for 48
    Message 1 of 87 , Jan 28, 2013
      Persistence pays off.

      I found a repair shop far removed from here that did not balk at rewinding a brushed DC generator and they agreed to rewind it for 48 volts at no extra charge.

      The generator will have all new copper in the armature, and fields and the work was quoted for a third less than what I had been quoted for the same work locally.

      There is a seven day lead time for the rewinding, but I should have pics up soon.

      I laminated and marked up enough cedar planking to make two rotor blades and I will begin carving them soon.

      Dave

      --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "West_Texas" wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the input Frank. A real classic!
      >
      > The Delco Farm Light was a great system that would have come to predominate in rural areas if not for the REA.
      >
      > The Delco Light, Hi-Power wind turbine was designed as an adjunct to the Farm Light System and was meant to save on the fuel needed to run the generator and charge the battery bank(s). It is reported to have worked fairly well for the purpose.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Leslie" wrote:
      > >
      > > DELCO was Dayton Electric Light Plant Company that mostly built 32V kerosene farm gemerators. My dad worked there. I was born in 1938!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > NW Ohio had some wind turbines on farms, and his explanations led to my interest in wind energy.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Frank
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com [small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of West_Texas [westtexas86004@]
      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:34 PM
      > > To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [s-w-h] Re: Introduction and my latest alternative energy project
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Okay, Mike figured out what I was doing wrong and this should work. Thanks much to Mike.
      > >
      > > Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply. I probably should have stated more clearly in my OP that the wind charger that I own is a Hi-Power wind turbine that was built by Delco-Light for part of 1938 only. This exceptionally short production life is the primary reason these plants are rare.
      > >
      > > However, even with that being said the consensus seems to be running towards restoring the plant to specs and returning it to service. My apologies to those who opined differently, but I agree with the consensus and I will be retuning this plant to service.
      > >
      > > I have posted pics in the photo section. The photo album is titled "Hi-Power Wind Turbine"
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com , "wind4energy" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hey everybody,
      > > >
      > > > Dave is trying to reply to the list, but is having trouble
      > > > posting. Please be patient as we try to figure out whatever
      > > > it is that is preventing him from posting.... He does appreciate
      > > > the feedback he has gotten!
      > > >
      > > > Thanks!
      > > > Mike
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com , "West_Texas" wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Greetings,
      > > > >
      > > > > My name is Dave and I reside in Omaha. I have an interest in alternative energy and in restoring old iron.
      > > > >
      > > > > I picked up a wind charger from Craigslist a few weeks ago, and I have kept myself busy refurbishing the parts.
      > > > >
      > > > > While reading the Hall of Fame page at windcharger.org I came across a description for the wind charger that I bought. It is described as a Hi-Power, 1,000 watt, 32V, wind charger with a two blade propeller, 12 foot in diameter.
      > > > >
      > > > > At the end of the description comes the spoiler;
      > > > >
      > > > > "With REA market pressure, WWII looming ,and Delco-Light falling out of favor with the auto portion of GM the effort did not last very long and any units produced are extremely rare."
      > > > >
      > > > > link: http://www.windcharger.org/Wind_Charger/Hall_of_Fame.html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > The description "extremely rare" refers to the fact that these units were only produced during a portion of 1938.
      > > > >
      > > > > This situation has me a bit befuddled and I am wondering if I bought something more suitable to a museum, rather than for topping a pole in my backyard and churning out free electrons?
      > > > >
      > > > > I really like this wind generator. It is well designed and worth restoring, but I am unsure at this point as to how I should proceed, or even if I should proceed.
      > > > >
      > > > > To this point I have not done anything in the way of restoration that could not be undone with the application of a little acetone.
      > > > >
      > > > > Any advice from the learned heads on this forum would be appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > Dave
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • West_Texas
      Hi Doug, Good ideas, but I am too far along in the process to incorporate either of them. My decision to add glass was twofold, the first being to harden and
      Message 87 of 87 , Jul 16, 2013
        Hi Doug,

        Good ideas, but I am too far along in the process to incorporate either of them.

        My decision to add glass was twofold, the first being to harden and seal the soft red cedar against the elements, the second was to stiffen each rotor along its long axis.

        To accomplish this I oriented the glass cloth so that the threads ran true along the long axis of each rotor and then applied resin to lock the cloth in place. This stiffened the rotor considerably and I hope this will lead to an increase in efficiency. The rotors will also be sealed against water intrusion when the process is completed.

        Regarding the weight of the rotors. Have you seen the pics of the hub assembly?

        Dave

        --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" <dougselsam@...> wrote:
        >
        > Nice work Dave:
        > Thanks for the nice pix.
        > I might suggest a couple of labor-saving ideas that could also increase longevity:
        >
        > 1)Leave the root thinner without adding so much extra material. I usually ignore/minimize aerodynamics at the root, and my blades are light. I made a rotor with a thicker root and was very surprised at the heavy feel. Yuk! Hard to hold onto when changing directions, spun up unloaded, facing the wind, using a phillips screwdriver. It wants to rip out of my hand. A heavy rotor (especially a 2-blader) is going to experience more "yaw-judders" which can slowly rip a machine apart. Is it worth it? When almost all the power comes from the tips? I'd rather have a lightweight rotor.
        >
        > 2) Why the fiberglass? Is wood not stiff enough? Is it a leading edge issue => to harden the leading edges? Soft leading edge tape can do that job. Or a thin strip of metal. I wonder if adding all that glass & resin is just one more way to make a heavy rotor. A solution in search of a problem? Overkill? Extra work where none is needed? I'd say a wood rotor is plenty strong, unlikely to delaminate, and "if it works, don't fix it".
        > :)
        > Doug Selsam
        > http://www.selsam.com
        >
        > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "West_Texas" <westtexas86004@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thanks Jerry.
        > >
        > > I've added more pics of rotor construction to the photo album. I am fiberglassing the rotors at the moment.
        > >
        > > Link to photo album here:
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-wind-home/photos/album/2963925/pic/list
        > >
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > �
        > > > ���������������������������������� Hi Dave and All,
        > > > �
        > > > ��������������������������������������������������� Looking great!!� Nice job on the blades too.�
        > > > �
        > > > ��������������������������������������������������� The hub certainly looks simple, easy to make�and reliable.� Now just need someone to build them for sale. One could set it up to go to max speed a little over induction motor speed and not need an inverter, just cut off switch when not producing power and safety.�
        > > > �
        > > > �����������������������������������������������������You are going to have one nice WT when you are done.� Keep up the great work!
        > > > �
        > > > ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������� Jerry Dycus��
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: West_Texas <westtexas86004@>
        > > > To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:08 PM
        > > > Subject: Old WT's, let's copy!!,, Re: [s-w-h] Re: Introduction and my latest alternative energy project
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In response to this thread I created a separate photo album for the pitch control mechanism from my Hi-Power wind turbine, the album is titled; Hi-Power Wind Turbine Hub Assembly.
        > > >
        > > > Also I have been busy since the warm weather settled in and the rotors are taking shape. I've added additional pics to the Hi-Power Wind Turbine photo album.
        > > >
        > > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" <dougselsam@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Dave and Jerry:
        > > > > I agree - the idea of a reliable small wind turbine should not be so elusive.� Look at a lawnmower for an example of a machine of similar size, weight, and power, for a couple hundred bucks.� (Of course a lawnmowerm by its nature, will not give years of 24/7 troublefree service, but nobody expects it to.)
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes the frustrating thing is, between all of us pretty sharp people trying to get small wind going - everyone from the government labs and agencies, to testing consortia, to manufacturers, to interested customers - with 100 years of design to draw from - that we collectively are unable to offer a decent, affordable, small wind turbine for homwowners - does that sound right?� Are we not smart enough?� Are we not trying hard enough?� I say we need to work smarter rather than harder.� This is not impossible.� We need powerful, reliable output, at an affordable cost.� A very simple machine need not have an exorbitant cost!
        > > > >
        > > > > An alternator, yaw bearing, tail pivot, and rotor, and a tail, all designed to work together, all tested together to work properly, what is so hard about that?
        > > > > I'll tell you what's so hard. It's the number of distractions - the crowds of handwaving advisors and green advocates, endless funding carrots dangled on bureaucratic hooks...
        > > > > At some point, the wind turbine developer becomes so sidetracked attending meetings and trade shows, blogging on the web, applying for grant after grant, that the basic task of crafting a simple, good-performaing turbine, and testing and adjusting it till it holds together as it should, becomes "lost in the shuffle".
        > > > >
        > > > > Instead of people asking how your turbine design is surviving, they ask about your "burn rate" and how much funding you need.� The big labs teach ways to get more funding rather than building and testing.
        > > > > The turbines are hurriedly developed, go out the door, before the design is perfected.
        > > > > The warranty returns stack up
        > > > > The reputation falters
        > > > > and you've already seen the rest of that movie.
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, I believe after several years of testing, I do have at least one model that will not let people down.� Seems that way anyways...� Getting a reasonable number into production would seem to be a next step.� It's just a turbine, not a whole system with tower and inverter.� Today it seems there would be no use for "just" a decent turbine - there's nothing to hook it up to.� Unless you have a battery-charging system.� People on batteries - with remote systems - are the ones who really NEED wind power.
        > > > >
        > > > > I've seen others maybe wander too far into the people-pleasing business, rather than staying focused on one component, and end up spending all day talking with tire-kickers about water pipe and fittings, anchors and guy wires.� I'm just trying to avoid stepping in whatever doggie-doo-doo has caused some of the other companies to manufacture and sell in large numbers first, test later, and start drowning in failed installations and angry customers.
        > > > >
        > > > > OK enough blogging for today?
        > > > > Am I blogging?� Hey Mom, look, I'm blogging!
        > > > > :)
        > > > > Doug S.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "West_Texas" <westtexas86004@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If anyone has any interest in Jerry's proposal, let me know.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I would be happy to supply pics, dimensions, ect. of my Hi-Power WT, but speak now while it is still on my bench. Soon this project will be complete and then it all goes into storage against the day I can employ it.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Dave
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > �������������������������������� Hi Doug and All,
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > ������������������������������������������� I'm not surprised as they built likely a million and mostly sold them to cheap 1930's farmers so they had to be fairly eff and dead reliable, easy to repair.� My kind of WT!
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > ������������������������������������������� But WT's are really simple and materials not costly so not expensive to build robust but reasonable costs ones was about perfected then we can learn much from.�� I've been building,� some producing, studying how best to do one for 35 yrs�and they show the way.�
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > ������������������������������������������� You do know it wouldn't be hard to find a good one and just copy it. They are designed for battery usually but as a variable field to control charge you could build a new control circuit and put fairly constant voltage into an inverter. Something you can't do with PM's and a huge advantage but a 10% eff hit but worth it.
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > ������������������������������������������� You could also convert you alt to variable field or buy one already done,� to get the same excellent control.
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > �������������������������������������������� 2 more solutions Doug ;^P
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > > ������������������������������������������������������������������������ Jerry dycus
        > > > > > > �
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > >� From: Doug <dougselsam@>
        > > > > > > To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 10:09 AM
        > > > > > > Subject: [s-w-h] Re: Introduction and my latest alternative energy project
        > > > > > >�
        > > > > > > Amazing how they had good small windmills made by leading manufacturers back then.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com, "West_Texas" <westtexas86004@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Okay that took longer than expected, but what doesn't. The fields and armature are back from the gen shop wound for 48VDC @ 1KW.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Photos posted to my album: Hi-Power Wind Turbine.
        > > > > > > >�
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
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