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Re: [s-w-h] Article on DyoCore

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  • jerry freedomev
                   Hi David and All,                         I have to agree with Bergey that your units are not viable as
    Message 1 of 51 , Mar 21, 2011
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                     Hi David and All,

                              I have to agree with Bergey that your units are not
      viable as they can't put out the power you say and overpriced for the meager
      output they might make.   Nothing you have shown leads to anything but your
      units are a scam violating basic energy available in the wind speeds you state.

                                                                 Jerry Dycus 



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: David <dave@...>
      To: Mike Bergey <mbergey@...>; small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 7:45:25 AM
      Subject: RE: [s-w-h] Article on DyoCore

      It's very unfortunate Mr. Bergey feels very threatened by DyoCore.  I regret
      he has not shown any professionalism or restraint.  His stance is bias
      against low wind and even more bias against products that demonstrate how
      overpriced his own product is in comparison.  If anyone would like to take
      a more formal approach to learning about DyoCore, our vision, objectives and
      development please contact me directly at anytime.  We have worked very hard
      over these past several years to make small wind affordable, practical and
      reliable for the average homeowner.  It is not a small accomplishment and we
      have a long way to go. 



      DyoCore has a great relationship with the CEC and is working with the CEC to
      hopefully qualify installations of our product in the future.  Unfortunately
      products like Bergy only represent less than 1% of all Californians in
      possibly of application and less than maybe a tenth of that in
      affordability.  Until SolAir the average homeowner, who also funds the
      program, couldn't afford or get permitting for a solution.  Over the past
      year we have changed this dramatically and now allow the program to
      represent a significantly broader base of the very residents that fund the
      program.  It's our goal within the next year to double that list. 



      We are working aggressively with many industry leaders in making Small Wind
      a very real and viable solution.  DyoCore has accomplished more than any
      other wind manufacturer in CA, hopefully with greater resources and
      professional assistance we can continue to make small wind a real solution.



      To learn more about DyoCore,  www.dyocore.com



      Best wishes,



      David Raine

      dave@...

      www.dyocore.com



      From: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bergey
      Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:17 AM
      To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [s-w-h] Article on DyoCore



       

      We've discussed DyoCore on this listserv. The following article covers
      DyoCore's crashing the CEC rebate program. Be sure to read the comments.

      http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/have-small-wind-manufacturers-ex
      ploited-loopholes-in-california-rebates/

      I believe there's a follow-on article in the works.

      Mike Bergey
      President
      Bergey Windpower Co.
      2200 Industrial Blvd.
      Norman, OK 73069 USA
      Tel: 405-364-4212
      Fax: 405-364-2078
      E-mail: mbergey@... <mailto:mbergey%40bergey.com>
      Web Site: www.bergey.com





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • David Raine
      http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/ David Raine DyoCore dyo_gr_lgo www.dyocore.com p&f. 866-404-2428 c. 760-580-4271 dave@dyocore.com From:
      Message 51 of 51 , Apr 1 8:08 AM
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        http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/



        David Raine

        DyoCore

        dyo_gr_lgo
        www.dyocore.com

        p&f. 866-404-2428

        c. 760-580-4271

        dave@...



        From: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com [mailto:small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN MARTIN
        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 7:08 AM
        To: Cory Arnold; small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [s-w-h] Re: CEC suspension





        Good morning to all members,
        We are new to Windmill. Can anyone show us where and how to get Wind speed data
        for a specific region.
        Thank you all.
        John

        ________________________________
        From: Cory Arnold <coryarnold@... <mailto:coryarnold%40mcwindenergy.com> >
        To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 8:48:07 AM
        Subject: RE: [s-w-h] Re: CEC suspension


        Hello all,

        Now that I am not longer a dealer/installer and am in this manufacturing
        world. With a company and an owner as a boss who allows me to grow our
        business in a respectable manner according to our industry. A lot of the
        things people here are talking about hit home more than ever.

        I feel one of the man differences between entering the solar market and
        entering the small wind market is the process of R&D. Calculating and
        engineering solar seems to "not easy" but can be done 80% in a lab with the
        remaining 20% done in the field. There is never a , go back to the drawing
        board instance. Why? Solar has been the same for a long time. Improvements
        have been made but the way it is harvested has been the same for almost 30
        years.

        Well entering the wind market is a whole different monster. Not to mention
        that you are harnessing one of the most awesome forces on earth, but the
        simple fact is, we do not have the luxury of our engineers calculations
        being as accurate as they are for solar products where the resource is 99.9%
        predictable. So on the flip side wind turbines and its R&D are almost 80%
        field work and 20% office work. In fact doing the math and basic
        calculations for something's about wind turbines are is easy. However
        design, purchasing, testing, implementation of new ideas, the list is
        endless. Can be a huge process that takes years, because we cannot predict
        most things about how products will react to wind.

        By the time you spend 2-3 years gathering data on your products and refining
        things, then you have to enter the market. For me, being someone who has
        spent most of my professional career in small wind I never imagined how hard
        it would be to do this in a way we didn't bring on the wrath of our
        industry. I have had the SWCC application on my desk filled out for 8 months
        now. I feel that SWCC is necessary, and when I was a dealer/installer I
        longed for someone to take the bull by the horns and get something like this
        going. Now that my role in this industry has changed, I feel the SWCC could
        change some things to make entering this market a little easier. If they are
        going to be the gate keeper then possibly a probationary certification using
        things such as 3rd party data, and a signed code of conduct, etc....

        When government money is being used to supplement the cost of a wind
        turbine, it needs to be a certified company and turbine PERIOD. I truly
        believe that, however there are companies out there that have good turbines
        and the companies behind them are truly in love with their products and
        stand behind them better and faster than most. Sadly at times it feels like
        some of the bigger companies are encouraging road blocks to make it very
        hard to enter the market. When I was a dealer/installer I really was 100%
        for this begin the case. Now that I have moved to the dark side, I'm 100%
        supportive with concerns.

        There is a lot to be excited about in the next year for small wind. WIND
        Diesel is growing so fast. Better incentives are being put in place. DWEA is
        kicking butt making sure we are taking care of. The small wind industry is
        making leaps and bounds in the right direction. In reality all this
        contention is slightly because of the crap that is going on in CA, but I
        feel a lot of it is because for the first time since the 80's small wind is
        thriving, real money is being made by dealers again. Anytime incentives are
        lost or gained that effect ones lively hood, there is going to be fingers
        pointed.

        Long story short, in the next 5 years we are going to see small wind
        accepted everywhere. It will transform from the modern Wild West it is, and
        become an industry that everyone will be saying " I really wish I would have
        jumped into that when I had the chance" . Every play nice and we will do a
        lot of good.

        __________________________________________________________
        ___

        Cory Arnold

        cid:image001.jpg@01CBE257.26FD7CD0 <mailto:image001.jpg%4001CBE257.26FD7CD0>

        Director of Business Development

        <mailto:coryarnold@... <mailto:coryarnold%40mcwindenergy.com> > CoryArnold@... <mailto:CoryArnold%40MCWindEnergy.com>

        Cell: 208.360.3788

        Office: 509.926.WIND

        From: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Klemen
        Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:11 PM
        To: small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [s-w-h] Re: CEC suspension

        John,

        The value of a duration test is that it can stress
        components of the system. Yes, engineers can do
        calculations to size components, however, it is also
        possible that engineers do not understand what nature
        throws its way. Fatigue failures are the most
        common failures I have seen. If you don't know what
        a fatigue failure is, it's when a material is stressed
        over and over and over again until it breaks. Take
        a paper clip for example. You can bend it a couple
        times and it doesn't break, but if you keep bending
        it, it eventually breaks! That's a fatigue failure.

        The key with a duration test of any sort is that it
        has to include enough time at strong winds to actually
        show that a turbine can survive. Turbines that aren't
        stressed can survive, where the same turbine model
        will fail on a stronger wind site.

        Mike

        --- On Wed, 3/23/11, JOHN MARTIN <jmartin778@... <mailto:jmartin778%40yahoo.com>
        <mailto:jmartin778%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

        > From: JOHN MARTIN <jmartin778@... <mailto:jmartin778%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmartin778%40yahoo.com> >
        > Subject: Re: [s-w-h] Re: CEC suspension
        > To: "Robert Moskowitz" <rgm@... <mailto:rgm%40htt-consult.com> <mailto:rgm%40htt-consult.com>
        >, "Robert Copcutt" <r@... <mailto:r%40copcutt.me.uk> <mailto:r%40copcutt.me.uk> >
        > Cc: "hgengineer" <hgengineer@... <mailto:hgengineer%40yahoo.com> <mailto:hgengineer%40yahoo.com> >,
        small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 5:28 PM
        > Hi all members,
        > I really think that in order to be certified any Windmill
        > system should be
        > tested with natural wind at installation site not with "man
        > made wind in a
        > tunnel".
        > We should have real Windmill system tested a site that have
        > different Wind
        > speed.No need to have 2 year data.If a Windmill is tested
        > at various wind speed
        > and recorded electronically without altered, it can be
        > certified.
        > As far as Windmill system can survive high wind speed, some
        > Engineers can
        > perform tower strength
        >
        > and Turbine
        > John.
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@... <mailto:rgm%40htt-consult.com> <mailto:rgm%40htt-consult.com>
        >
        > To: Robert Copcutt <r@... <mailto:r%40copcutt.me.uk> <mailto:r%40copcutt.me.uk> >
        > Cc: hgengineer <hgengineer@... <mailto:hgengineer%40yahoo.com> <mailto:hgengineer%40yahoo.com> >;
        > small-wind-home@yahoogroups.com <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:small-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>

        > Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 1:45:46 PM
        > Subject: Re: [s-w-h] Re: CEC suspension
        >
        >
        > On 03/23/2011 02:58 PM, Robert Copcutt wrote:
        > >
        > > What concerns me is that a 2 year stress test would
        > delay the
        > > introduction of new turbines and new technologies
        > (like kites).
        > > Certainly there are already reliable models on the
        > market, but what
        > > happens when a reputable manufacturer wants to
        > introduce an updated
        > > model? What happens when a new (and honest) company
        > wants to enter the
        > > market? Most elements of reliability can be
        > demonstrated in a test
        > > program lasting far less than 2 years.
        > >
        >
        > It is truly a Catch-22 situation.
        >
        > Who is paying for proving out the technology? Who pays if
        > it fails?
        >
        > It is almost like a grant process. It should be handled
        > like one. A
        > new turbine would need to be presented to the granting
        > agency along with
        > a field testing plan. Consumers would be notified that they
        > are buying
        > equipment that is being field tested. Like testing out a
        > new drug.
        >
        > >
        > > Predicting if a turbine has been placed in a good wind
        > regime is very
        > > difficult. It is so much easier, and fairer, to just
        > measure what energy
        > > is produced and pay on that basis. Governments must
        > not take all
        > > responsibility for purchasing decisions away from
        > customers. That is the
        > > road to an Orwellian 1984!
        > >
        > > FiTs are so much easier to set up, and on the basis of
        > the real results
        > > achieved in real installations each company will soon
        > get the reputation
        > > it deserves. eg. http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/generation/
        > >
        > > Robert.
        > >
        > > On Wed, 2011-03-23 at 17:16 +0000, hgengineer wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Robert,
        > > >
        > > > The majority of reputable turbines like Bergey,
        > Xzeres, Southwest and
        > > > Gaia have already completed this testing.
        > > >
        > > > I feel that in no way would this delay the CEC
        > program, if a customer
        > > > wants a reputable turbine.
        > > >
        > > > "Companies" shouldn't expect to just buy (or
        > assemble) some "turbine"
        > > > from Asia, slap a name on it, then market it to
        > unsuspecting customers
        > > > without any prior testing.
        > > >
        > > > The way I see it, this is the step the industry
        > is going to need to
        > > > make to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to
        > speak.
        > > >
        > > > -Hunter
        > > >
        > > > -
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > Hi all
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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