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RE: [a-w-h] President Bush Senior installs a Skystream

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  • Andy Kruse
    Geez Neil - I am not sure what your beef it but you had better get your facts straight before making statements like that. Kennebunkport is about three miles
    Message 1 of 138 , Nov 30, 2007
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      Geez Neil - I am not sure what your beef it but you had better get your
      facts straight before making statements like that. Kennebunkport is
      about three miles from the Presidents place and is buried in the trees.
      The Presidents place is flat and has very few trees (look at pictures).
      It actually is a small peninsula that juts out into the water. The winds
      blow more or less from the south right through the property. Our dealers
      are trained to conduct site assessments on every installation. They use
      a series of wind maps and onsite evaluations to determine if wind will
      work for them. We do not recommend someone go out there with a data
      logging anemometer unless the customer specifically requests it as the
      cost to conduct such a study over 18 months or so will likely be as much
      as the machine itself. Every customer understands that our assessment of
      the winds in the area are subjective.

      Andy







      -----Original Message-----
      From: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Hochstedler
      Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:41 AM
      To: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [a-w-h] President Bush Senior installs a Skystream

      "I asked him about the wind there and he responded that it is a very
      rare
      day when the winds didn't blow."

      Gee whillikers! Let's put up a windmill!!!

      Seriously Andy, I don't know who "he" is, but that's a wind resource
      assessment worth about as much as "Oh yeah, the wind blows here all the
      time."

      According to the map you referenced, Kennebunkport's resource is poor to
      fair; or 0-7.0 mps at 50 meters above the ground. And Kennebunk is a
      loooong way from the northern part of the state. Considerably farther
      than
      Palm Springs is from downtown LA.

      >> Double hmmmmm..........How is it possible
      >to
      >t
      >even
      >semi-accurate
      >wind
      >data,
      >unless
      >it's
      >actually
      >from
      >a
      >bouy?
      >
      >
      >ndy@...>
      >wrote:
      >>
      >Hmmm -
      >I
      >looked at
      >the
      >numbers
      >and
      >received a
      >totally
      >different
      >answer
      >-
      >>
      >Specifically
      >President
      >Bush's
      >estate
      >has an
      >average 6.5
      >m/s wind
      >at
      >five
      >> feet off
      >the ground.
      >I
      >asked
      >him
      >about the wind
      >there and
      >he
      >responded
      >> that it
      >is a
      >very
      >rare
      >day
      >when the
      >winds
      >didn't
      >blow.
      >The
      >wind
      >map
      >of
      >>
      >Maine:
      >
      >>
      >
      >>
      >http://www.eere.energy.gov/windandhydro/windpoweringamerica/maps_templa
      t
      >>
      >e.asp?stateab=me
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> It appears to have a tremendous wind
      >resource. There are now plans
      >> underway for a very large wind farm in the
      >northern part of the state.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Actually, I see Maine having a
      >tremendous wind opportunity. Perhaps that
      >> 20 year old data was from the
      >old resource maps.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Andy
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >>
      >> From: tom mack [mailto:tbhpmci@...]
      >> Sent: Monday,
      >November 26, 2007 8:50 AM
      >> To: Andy Kruse;
      >awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: Re: [a-w-h] President Bush
      >Senior installs a Skystream
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Thanks , Andy , nice work. The
      >installation may be worthwhile .
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> I must mention that most
      >coastal Maine doesn't have a good wind regime ,
      >> this was determined
      >upwards of 20 years ago.
      >>
      >> T m
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >><andy@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> Hey everyone - I thought I
      >might share an article that just came
      >> out in
      >> a Maine Newspaper:
      >>
      > http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.&ac=PHnws
      >>
      >> Andy
      >>
      >>
      >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >>
      >> Get
      >easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your
      >homepage.
      >><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
      >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      Checked by
      >AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.33/1132 -
      >Release Date: 11/15/2007 9:34 AM


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    • Edward Tsang
      Frank, Thank you for talking sense here. I am afraid that there will always be those one is too many types. Heart surgeons are not allowed to make mistakes,
      Message 138 of 138 , Jan 14, 2008
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        Frank,

        Thank you for talking sense here. I am afraid that there will always be
        those "one is too many" types.

        Heart surgeons are not allowed to make mistakes, but, I doubt you can
        find one that never. That is why there are insurance to cover them.

        This should be the approached officials need to apply when designing
        policies for wind turbine installation instead of "no, no and no".

        Ed



        Matt Tritt wrote:

        > Good assessment Frank. There are other ways that blades let go of the
        > hub than root failure, though: Input shaft fatigue failure (you lose the
        > entire rotor assembly); partial blade loss from structural faults, and,
        > of course, failure due to a rotor being hit by flying debris (it has
        > happened more than once).
        >
        > Being hit by lightning is not that uncommon due to the numbers of people
        > on the planet these days and the law of averages. Being hit by a
        > meteorite is very rare, since they mainly burn up in the atmosphere.
        > Minimizing potential hazards from small turbine failures is easy, and is
        > something any rational person would not object to: Place them a tower's
        > length from inhabited structures and keep them as safe as possible from
        > heavy turbulence. I'll bet that these will be insurance requirements
        > before long, just like requiring staircases have bannisters and doors
        > have tempered glass.
        >
        > Matt
        >
        > Frank Leslie wrote:
        >
        > > Lots of opinions here, but let's quantify it with a systems
        > > engineering method. The risk of this injury in dollars is the product
        > > of the probability of it happening multiplied by the consequence in
        > > dollars.
        > >
        > > The risk of the blade injuring someone is the probability (I'll guess
        > > 0.000001, or one in a million) times the consequence (I'll guess
        > > $5,000,000 for a wrongful death lawsuit to settle). That's 0.000001 x
        > > $5,000,000, or $5.00. Now if you ask many experts, you can come up
        > > with different estimates and compute new risk values. One would need
        > > $5 insurance to cover this on average.
        > >
        > > The total probability is comprised of many things, and one would
        > > construct a failure tree of contributors to assess it. The wind must
        > > exceed some particular speed, the blade attachment must fail at that
        > > speed, the blade must come loose at a particular angle in rotation,
        > > blade must hit someone hard enough to cause injury, etc. Each of these
        > > contributors has an estimated probability, and the product of the
        > > probabilities yields the total probability.
        > >
        > > Failure estimates and risk estimates have uncertainties. The Space
        > > Shuttle was estimated to fail once in 400 flights, but it turned out
        > > to be only 78 with the loss of the Challenger.
        > >
        > > Frank
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > > *From:* awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:awea-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > [mailto:awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:awea-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Donald Plisco
        > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:02 PM
        > > *To:* Matt Tritt
        > > *Cc:* awea
        > > *Subject:* Re: [a-w-h] Re: Tower zoning - or getting hit by a blade
        > >
        > > A meteor can hit the earth soon, and kill a whole group of people in
        > > some urban setting, but that is not likely....But that particular
        > > event is more likely than a windgen throwing a blade and killing a
        > > group of poor, innocent children playing on a nearby sidewalk or
        > > schoolgrounds. It is even more likely that in the near future a meteor
        > > can hit the earth and injure or kill a single person somewhere on this
        > > earth...And that is very much more likely than a windgen blade sailing
        > > through a neighborhood and injuring a single child.
        > >
        > > Logic and reasonable expectations are normal occurances to sober and
        > > reasonable persons...
        > >
        > > And unfortunately...how likely is it that in the next 24 hours that a
        > > child is going to get killed by a car? Shall we ban motorized
        > > vehicles? Can we expect the collective looney tunes and nutcases to
        > > pick up placards, hold hands and protest the manufacture of all
        > > automobles on the grounds that they are likely to harm children and
        > > should be banned or restricted to non-children inhabited areas?
        > >
        > > Sober and reasonable people have to deal with reality and acute
        > > possibilities, not orbital neurotic anxieties and overly vivid
        > > imaginations.
        > >
        > > (A sober and reasonable) Don in Tulsa
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Matt Tritt
        > > To: tieole26
        > > Cc: awea
        > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:14 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [a-w-h] Re: Tower zoning - or getting hit by a blade
        > >
        > > What you're arguing, Don, is that because an event is difficult (or in
        > > my case just too time consuming) to quantify, it can't happen. This is
        > > just plain incorrect. Given the law of averages, and the increasing
        > > number of "back yard" turbines popping up on too short, right next to
        > > the house towers, it's just a matter of time. PV modules have been torn
        > > from their mounting in storms, roof tiles can go Frisbeing off like
        > > airborne guillotines, limbs break off and squish things (all the time),
        > > but so far, the number of small turbines has been so small, and with
        > > such limited exposure to the public, that mishaps have been relatively
        > > scarce. To ignore the probability of something occurring when the
        > > likelihood is increasing is counter intuitive.
        > >
        > > Matt
        > >
        > > Donald Plisco wrote:
        > >
        > > > That was because you loosened or messed around with the blades during
        > > > maintainace or repairs. You can do alot worse by simply falling off
        > > > the tower....That's not the tower's fault.
        > > > My point was: Can anyone of you document injury or death from a blade
        > > > that flies off from operational breakage?
        > > >
        > > > Don
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: tieole26
        > > > To: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:awea-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > <mailto:awea-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:awea-wind-home%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:34 AM
        > > > Subject: [a-w-h] Re: Tower zoning - or getting hit by a blade
        > > >
        > > > I've a colleague who was hit by the blade from a 20kW Westwind. We
        > > > had lowered the guy-wired tower with a winch and were in the the
        > > > process of pulling off the blades to adjust the furling in the nose
        > > > cone. First blade comes off, no problem. Second blade comes off and
        > > > wham, around comes blade number three whacking him smack in the ass.
        > > >
        > > > The client's wife offered to massage him with some ointment, which he
        > > > graciously refused. Sounds funny now, but could have easily broken
        > > > his leg or smashed his kneecap.
        > > >
        > > > Jay
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
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