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RE: [a-w-h] More Help on a Whisper 3000 and Rubbing Magnets

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  • Andrew Kruse
    The old World Power machines actually had two problems. First was the glue and the second was the spindle. We built some computer models of the Whispers after
    Message 1 of 8 , May 3, 2005
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      The old World Power machines actually had two problems. First was the glue
      and the second was the spindle. We built some computer models of the
      Whispers after we took things over. We found that with just two bearings on
      the spindle there was still enough flexing in the spindle shaft to cause a
      flexing of the can. When this happened.... Well the magnets hit the stator
      and all hell broke loose.

      We have done a lot to this area as the magnet problem affected every
      machine. Though it is under control, we continue to experiment with various
      other treatments to see if we can improve it even more. I would say one in
      500 or so Whispers still see this problem and it certainly is in the worst
      environments.

      Andy



      -----Original Message-----
      From: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com [mailto:awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
      Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:32 AM
      To: andy@...
      Cc: 'David Potter'; awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [a-w-h] More Help on a Whisper 3000 and Rubbing Magnets

      Glad to hear that the glue issue has been remedied Andy. Elliot had
      problems with this going back to the early Whirlwinds, one of which I
      sold to a very well known musician in Santa Barbara County in 81. The
      danged thing froze up so tight that we couldn't even separate the rotor
      from the stator, thanks to rusting under the magnets. We never had
      problems with the Soma alternators because the rotor was non-metallic
      and everything was sealed in epoxy.

      Matt

      Andrew Kruse wrote:

      >Matt is correct except for the glue issue and rust. One of the things we
      >changed in 2000 was to go to a different glue. We went to a more pliable
      two
      >part adhesive that was more impervious to moisture. Because his machine was
      >built in 1999 it could have had that. I know the rotor can was sent back
      >here once but I am not sure what was done to it. It could be that someone
      >here did a less than perfect job gluing the magnets in place.
      >
      >It still could be the spindle.
      >
      >Andy
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com]
      >On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
      >Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:52 AM
      >To: David Potter
      >Cc: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [a-w-h] More Help on a Whisper 3000 and Rubbing Magnets
      >
      >David,
      >
      >Since I'm not the manufacturer of your turbine I might be stepping on
      >certain toes here, but it sounds as if too much epoxy was used to glue
      >those magnets to the can or the can is out of round. The right way to
      >correct the problem is to replace the entire part, not to try and repair
      >it. It is the responsibility of any manufacturer to supply what they are
      >charging for and not charge you for something that should have been done
      >right from the start.
      >
      >I have seen older H-series and whispers with similar problems, but this
      >is mainly caused by rusting between the can and the magnets (because of
      >poor weather resistance). Your machine is way to recent to have this
      >kind of problem though, so I suggest that you press for a warranty
      >replacement.
      >
      >Good luck!
      >
      >Matt Tritt
      >Environmental Energy
      >
      >David Potter wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>Hey, all:
      >>
      >>Thanks for the responses but I am still in the same
      >>position as before. The magnet rubbing is more
      >>serious than "slightly". Turning by hand as hard as
      >>possible gets only ~2 turns before it grinds to a
      >>halt. If it stops on a spot where it is rubbing it
      >>takes 2 hands to free it. Someone standing at the
      >>base of the 70' tower heard it clearly. Noise is not
      >>that much of a problem with this unit, but my closest
      >>neighboor says at some times (strong gusty winds) it
      >>sounds like a helicopter landing. That and the
      >>rubbing sound I don't need.
      >>
      >>Andy, I had sent this unit in to your shop last Fall
      >>and nothing was done to the magnet can. In fact,
      >>nothing at all was done, because rather than fixing
      >>the problem, which was the overheating and
      >>burning/melting of the wires in the J-box, the repair
      >>facility wanted me to spend ~$1000 on everything else.
      >>The other major problem was the yaw shaft slipping in
      >>the insert assembly and breaking the retaining
      >>bolts/screws. Your shop wanted to replace the insert
      >>with a turned aluminum one costing ~$120. Ater I got
      >>it back I spent $5 on a piece of 3/8" steel plate and
      >>had it welded for $15. If I had had the steel here
      >>and could weld, it would have cost me nothing. On the
      >>other hand, it cost me $200 to send this unit on a
      >>round trip vacation to your shop for another sort of
      >>nothing. I appreciate your concern, and I know you
      >>couldn't have known, but that's the story. And I
      >>still have the rubbing.
      >>
      >>Orv, I have checked about everything on this unit, and
      >>the shaft problem you describe is not present. It is
      >>a larger 3 bearing shaft SWWP supplied me 2-3 years
      >>ago now. I used a large locking pliers on the shaft
      >>and couldn't get any slop out of it. Plus, the
      >>rubbing is consistently on the same 4-5 magnets, which
      >>are spread around the can rather than one side or
      >>clustered. I have put the can on and taken it off
      >>repeatedly to address the problem and consistently get
      >>the same rubbing "signature". I can use an old
      >>ignition gap gauge and the rubbing consistently occurs
      >>on the same portion of the same magnets. I would love
      >>to get 0.025".
      >>
      >>So could I use a rotary stone chucked into a low speed
      >>drill with lots of heavy grease to prevent magnetic
      >>filings from getting everywhere, to gently cut down a
      >>portion of the centerline of the face of the magnets?
      >>Is anyone cringing or rolling their eyes as they read
      >>this? Any better ideas? I appreciate the help!
      >>
      >>
      >>David W. Potter
      >>Orange Grove Texas (where there is no market for wind)
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Orv wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>Hi David Potter:
      >>
      >>In the H-80 unit that I found, there was also rubbing
      >>of the magnets.
      >>
      >>When dismantled, the generator had a short axle with
      >>three bearings.
      >>The bearings were worn and had loose balls, and the
      >>axle was worn
      >>so that the bearing inner diameters were loose on the
      >>shaft. I
      >>replaced the axle and put new bearings on the axle.
      >>Difficult, but
      >>doable.
      >>
      >>With the outer magnet can installed. I couldn't feel
      >>the looseness
      >>of the bearings. The magnets are very strong. Ideal
      >>gap to the
      >>armature is about .025 inches.
      >>
      >>Best wishes, Orv Lynner
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Andy wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>David,
      >>
      >>Sometimes this happens. If it rubs just slightly then
      >>don't worry about
      >>it.
      >>Over time it will settle into place (2-3 weeks of
      >>continuous
      >>operation). If
      >>it is a very rough rub (hard to turn) then you need to
      >>contact me right
      >>away. There is no excuse for that.
      >>
      >>I would like to know why did it take so long for the
      >>repair to be
      >>completed?
      >>We did have problems in the past that way but not in
      >>the last six
      >>months.
      >>
      >>
      >>Andy
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE HOME ENERGY LIST.
      ----------------------------------------------------------
      . Please feel free to send your input to:
      awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
      . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to:
      awea-wind-home-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      .. To view previous messages from the list,
      subscribe to a daily digest of the list,
      or stop receiving the list by e-mail
      (and read it on the Web), go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/awea-wind-home .
      . An FAQ on small wind systems is located at
      http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen .
      . This e-mail discussion list is managed by
      the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA):
      http://www.awea.org . AWEA maintains the Home
      Energy list as an "open discussion space" for
      those wishing to learn more about home energy
      systems, and takes no responsibility for the
      opinions or technical advice provided on the
      list.
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