Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [a-w-h] Whisper H-80 Diversion Sticking?

Expand Messages
  • DJ MacIntyre
    ... Cool. At the bottom of the tower, I installed a junction box (to be changed for the disconnect as per the inspector s wishes), and have checked the
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 29, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Andrew Kruse wrote:

      >Hmmmm- You are saying it is furling early. There could be a few different
      >problems.
      >
      >LOW OUTPUT
      >
      >1) One of the phases may have a problem. You might want to test each of the
      >three phases as they come into the controller. Also check the rectifier to
      >make sure it is fine.
      >

      Cool. At the bottom of the tower, I installed a junction box (to be
      changed for the disconnect as per the inspector's wishes), and have
      checked the voltages there. The manual calls it "wild AC". I've seen
      ~12-14v at the tower bottom. This should be measurable on each wire
      against the ground?

      >2) If this problem has been going on since you installed the machine, you
      >could have a mis-wired turbine. If the machine is wired at 24vdc and you are
      >charging a 12 vdc battery bank, the symptoms would be the same.
      >

      Ok, on this unit, I was told by the supplier that the only voltage
      ajustment to make was in the controller box, by arranging the jumpers on
      the heat sink side. Now, I did *order* a 12v configuration, they shipped
      one marked 24v, but told me all I had to do was ajust the voltage in the
      controller. Is this factual? They mean well, of course, but... I had a
      client with problems with an OutBack GTFX, and just got the replacement
      board direct from OutBack, and switched it out. Nice folks over there, too.

      >FURLING PIN
      >
      >As for the furling pin sticking... That is separate. How old is this
      >machine?
      >

      Ordered and delivered last October, installed in February.

      > Most likely it has the composite bushing. If so it could be wearing
      >out. You want to catch this before it wears out into the casting. We changed
      >this a couple of years ago to bronze which so far has been doing very well.
      >

      Ok, so not likely that, then.

      >Also, the furling nut on the top of the turbine is very sensitive. This
      >should NEVER be adjusted. Too tight and it will stick. Most likely you will
      >need to bring the machine down to inspect the wiring.
      >

      Figured, yeah. Not really a big problem, that part. Now that I have the
      guy wires adjusted, it should pretty much just flop d... err, be "easily
      lowered carefully" and with little fuss ;-).

      > You will want to
      >remove it, place the machine upward in a vice; remove the nut and separate
      >the upper from the lower. Then inspect the bushing. Regardless, you should
      >change the bushing so call our office and ask for a replacement.
      >

      Cool, I will do that.

      > Then clean
      >everything carefully, spray the inside of the new bushing with some dry lube
      >and re-assemble. The process takes about 20 minutes. When you re-tighten the
      >nut you want to do so to just where it starts to get tight. In the vice you
      >want to watch the machine furl back into place with gravity alone. If it
      >doesn't then loosen the nut little by little until it does.
      >

      All righty then ;-).

      I'll keep you in the loop, let you know how it goes. It was an emergency
      install, supposed to be a cogen, but the utility tanked out at the last
      minute, hence the February install. And yes, the installation of a wind
      turbine, in Canada, in February is pretty much as fun as it sounds, yeah
      ;-).

      DJ
    • Hugh Piggott
      ... Diversion of power by the controller is not directly related to windspeed at all. It is related to battery voltage. If your battery is small or fully
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 29, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        At 9:24 PM -0400 27/4/05, DJ MacIntyre wrote:
        >
        >
        >Is this normal performance, the diversion starting at that low a windspeed?

        Diversion of power by the controller is not directly related to
        windspeed at all. It is related to battery voltage. If your battery
        is small or fully charged then the controller should start to divert
        power in quite low winds to prevent overcharge and this is healthy.

        You should be looking at battery voltage. If this is around 14 volts
        then it is healthy for the controller to divert power away from the
        battery. If there is no load on the system then it is normal for the
        controller to continue to dump power even in low winds.

        At 11:37 AM -0400 28/4/05, DJ MacIntyre wrote:
        >Wired right now for
        >12v (yeah I know, but the client had a million 12v gel cells and
        >wanted a 12v system...)

        You can wire the 12 volt batteries in series to make 24 volt
        batteries. Cells are 2 volts. Each 12 volt block contains 6 cells.
        Wire its positive to the negative of another to make 24 volts (with
        12 cells). Better to understand such things before dealing with
        clients.
        --
        Hugh

        Scoraig Wind Electric
        http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/
      • DJ MacIntyre
        ... Ah, I misspoke. I meant physical diversion of the blade face, out of the wind. On my Jacobs turbine, I *would have* called it furling, because the blades
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 30, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hugh Piggott wrote:

          > At 9:24 PM -0400 27/4/05, DJ MacIntyre wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> Is this normal performance, the diversion starting at that low a
          >> windspeed?
          >
          >
          > Diversion of power by the controller is not directly related to
          > windspeed at all. It is related to battery voltage. If your battery
          > is small or fully charged then the controller should start to divert
          > power in quite low winds to prevent overcharge and this is healthy.


          Ah, I misspoke. I meant physical diversion of the blade face, out of the
          wind. On my Jacobs turbine, I *would have* called it furling, because
          the blades actually turn. With the H80, the entire front half twists, or
          as I called it, "diverts" out of the wind. This is not a battery
          charging issue.

          > You should be looking at battery voltage. If this is around 14 volts
          > then it is healthy for the controller to divert power away from the
          > battery. If there is no load on the system then it is normal for the
          > controller to continue to dump power even in low winds.


          Nah, the battery bank isn't an issue here. Sorry I misspoke.

          DJ

          >
          >
          > At 11:37 AM -0400 28/4/05, DJ MacIntyre wrote:
          >
          >> Wired right now for
          >> 12v (yeah I know, but the client had a million 12v gel cells and
          >> wanted a 12v system...)
          >
          >
          > You can wire the 12 volt batteries in series to make 24 volt
          > batteries. Cells are 2 volts. Each 12 volt block contains 6 cells.
          > Wire its positive to the negative of another to make 24 volts (with 12
          > cells). Better to understand such things before dealing with clients.


          Don't get condescending, Hugh ;-). I know very well how to
          series/parallel batteries to get desired voltages. I have a sixty cell,
          24v NiCad bank in the basement, three twenty cell banks paralleled.
          The reason that I didn't bump the client up to a 24, 36, or 48 V bank
          was purely financial.

          It was an odd client setup, this one. One of the things our company is
          willing to do is utilize "client sourced" equipment. This client bought
          a crap load (sixty) of "gently used" ~ ten year old Dynasty 12v gel
          cells, and a couple of old U-Series Trace inverters. Then they came to
          me to "make it go". Yeah. Well.

          So, running the numbers for them, here became the issue; Dynasty, in
          their tech specs for this particular battery, required 2/0 minimum for
          interconnect size in strings that large (and I broke it up into
          "fifteens" with junction boxes); gel cells are like that. To bring the
          string up to 24v, the cabling demands would almost double.
          Add to that the two inverters they purchased were ALSO twelve volt,
          which they wanted to use.

          My hands were kinda tied.

          Alot of extra expense for batteries and inverters that were borderline
          useful and could, realistically, die any day. I discussed it with the
          client, and that is why we went 12v.

          That, actually, was one of the reasons I spec'd an H-80 into the system.
          The voltage is user-configurable, so, when they got to the point of
          needing to replace the batteries with something newer, and could replace
          the inverter with something else, and, by location and utility, I
          suggested an OutBack (I'm not Xantrex's biggest fan), we could bump the
          whole thing up to 24, 36, or 48 with minimal investment and continue to
          use the turbine. I might even be willing to buy back all the extra
          interconnects from them, to recycle with other clients ;-)

          So, yeah, 12v, bad idea, I agree, but this was a special case.

          So don't get preachy with me, bloke ;-).

          DJ
        • Andrew Kruse
          I am getting a picture here. It does appear to be a couple of problems. First is the controller - It is a good chance you have a controller set at the wrong
          Message 4 of 11 , May 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I am getting a picture here. It does appear to be a couple of problems.

            First is the controller - It is a good chance you have a controller set at
            the wrong voltage. It is a bit complicated on those old ones but you can
            switch the voltages. I believe there are 3-4 steps that must be made to do
            so. Contact Jim Bell in our tech support department for instructions. That
            is jim@...

            If you changed the furling pin, then more than likely it is just a bit too
            tight. You will have to drop the tower but do it and then back the nut off a
            bit. Try not to mess with the nut too much so you don't reduce the locking
            ability of the nylon insert in the nut.

            Andy



            -----Original Message-----
            From: awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com [mailto:awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of DJ MacIntyre
            Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:40 PM
            To: andy@...
            Cc: 'awea'
            Subject: Re: [a-w-h] Whisper H-80 Diversion Sticking?



            Andrew Kruse wrote:

            >Hmmmm- You are saying it is furling early. There could be a few different
            >problems.
            >
            >LOW OUTPUT
            >
            >1) One of the phases may have a problem. You might want to test each of the
            >three phases as they come into the controller. Also check the rectifier to
            >make sure it is fine.
            >

            Cool. At the bottom of the tower, I installed a junction box (to be
            changed for the disconnect as per the inspector's wishes), and have
            checked the voltages there. The manual calls it "wild AC". I've seen
            ~12-14v at the tower bottom. This should be measurable on each wire
            against the ground?

            >2) If this problem has been going on since you installed the machine, you
            >could have a mis-wired turbine. If the machine is wired at 24vdc and you
            are
            >charging a 12 vdc battery bank, the symptoms would be the same.
            >

            Ok, on this unit, I was told by the supplier that the only voltage
            ajustment to make was in the controller box, by arranging the jumpers on
            the heat sink side. Now, I did *order* a 12v configuration, they shipped
            one marked 24v, but told me all I had to do was ajust the voltage in the
            controller. Is this factual? They mean well, of course, but... I had a
            client with problems with an OutBack GTFX, and just got the replacement
            board direct from OutBack, and switched it out. Nice folks over there, too.

            >FURLING PIN
            >
            >As for the furling pin sticking... That is separate. How old is this
            >machine?
            >

            Ordered and delivered last October, installed in February.

            > Most likely it has the composite bushing. If so it could be wearing
            >out. You want to catch this before it wears out into the casting. We
            changed
            >this a couple of years ago to bronze which so far has been doing very well.

            >

            Ok, so not likely that, then.

            >Also, the furling nut on the top of the turbine is very sensitive. This
            >should NEVER be adjusted. Too tight and it will stick. Most likely you will
            >need to bring the machine down to inspect the wiring.
            >

            Figured, yeah. Not really a big problem, that part. Now that I have the
            guy wires adjusted, it should pretty much just flop d... err, be "easily
            lowered carefully" and with little fuss ;-).

            > You will want to
            >remove it, place the machine upward in a vice; remove the nut and separate
            >the upper from the lower. Then inspect the bushing. Regardless, you should
            >change the bushing so call our office and ask for a replacement.
            >

            Cool, I will do that.

            > Then clean
            >everything carefully, spray the inside of the new bushing with some dry
            lube
            >and re-assemble. The process takes about 20 minutes. When you re-tighten
            the
            >nut you want to do so to just where it starts to get tight. In the vice you
            >want to watch the machine furl back into place with gravity alone. If it
            >doesn't then loosen the nut little by little until it does.
            >

            All righty then ;-).

            I'll keep you in the loop, let you know how it goes. It was an emergency
            install, supposed to be a cogen, but the utility tanked out at the last
            minute, hence the February install. And yes, the installation of a wind
            turbine, in Canada, in February is pretty much as fun as it sounds, yeah
            ;-).

            DJ









            ==========================================================
            THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE HOME ENERGY LIST.
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            . Please feel free to send your input to:
            awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.com
            . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to:
            awea-wind-home-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            .. To view previous messages from the list,
            subscribe to a daily digest of the list,
            or stop receiving the list by e-mail
            (and read it on the Web), go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/awea-wind-home .
            . An FAQ on small wind systems is located at
            http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen .
            . This e-mail discussion list is managed by
            the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA):
            http://www.awea.org . AWEA maintains the Home
            Energy list as an "open discussion space" for
            those wishing to learn more about home energy
            systems, and takes no responsibility for the
            opinions or technical advice provided on the
            list.
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            ical advice provided on the
            list.
            ----------------------------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • DJ MacIntyre
            ... Actually, of the whole thing, I m pretty sure the controller is ok. Yes, I had to change the internal jumpers around a good bit to get it to match the
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Andrew Kruse wrote:
              >
              > I am getting a picture here. It does appear to be a couple of problems.
              >
              > First is the controller - It is a good chance you have a controller set at
              > the wrong voltage. It is a bit complicated on those old ones but you can
              > switch the voltages. I believe there are 3-4 steps that must be made to do
              > so. Contact Jim Bell in our tech support department for instructions. That
              > is jim@...

              Actually, of the whole thing, I'm pretty sure the controller is ok. Yes, I had to change
              the internal jumpers around a good bit to get it to match the diagram for a 12v setup from
              the 24v configuration it came in, but the manual is quite clear on that point, and I
              followed it exactly.
              I'll check, of course, but I doubt it's the problem.

              > If you changed the furling pin, then more than likely it is just a bit too
              > tight. You will have to drop the tower but do it and then back the nut off a
              > bit. Try not to mess with the nut too much so you don't reduce the locking
              > ability of the nylon insert in the nut.

              No problem. Industry spec, as I remember, suggests you can remove a nylon locking nut once
              or twice before having to discard it. And buying a new one is a 30 cent investment, so no
              worries there, either ;-).

              I'll let you know. Still waiting for the three phase fused disconnect to come in for the
              tower base. I'll do that, too, when the tower is down.

              DJ
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.