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The Fellowship Factor in People's Lives

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  • kenhaining777
    I sometimes muse over the fellowship factor in people s lives. It is intriguing to contemplate how different someone s life would have been if they had never
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2010

      I sometimes muse over the fellowship factor in people's lives. 

      It is intriguing to contemplate how different someone's life would have been if they had never encountered the religious plague, which I affectionately call Wayman's World.  Depending on how intensely involved someone became with that religious world, and how long they stayed in it, the course of their lives was altered to varying degrees. 

      In my case, my life would have been completely different.  Had I not gotten entangled in that low level religion of Wayman's, I would not have married the woman I married, I would have almost certainly gotten my PhD, I would have continued my study of astrology, and a host of other things.  Many things were aborted in my life that could never be regained.  The simple fact of the matter is that I suffered loss of what I would call life itself. 

      It is sad in a free society that people can still become enslaved by something like religion.  Instead of making good, healthy choices concerning the direction of their lives, they let some religion, and religious leaders, tell them what they should be investing their time, energy, devotion, and money in. 

      In the case of Wayman's World, people were diverted from living truly productive and fulfilling lives into building an imaginary "kingdom," which was supposed to be the "kingdom of God on Earth."  In reality, they were building Wayman's kingdom, which is nothing more than a religious society in which Wayman is king, and has everything set up for his pleasure.  That world completely fills his desire to be a religious dictator, to have everyone in that world in submission to him, and to allow him to live like a wealthy CEO.  For the people who build that kingdom, however, it is a destructive diversion that drains them of their own lives.

      It is strange to try and explain to someone, who has no familiarity with anything like Wayman's World, why you would need to recover from being part of a church group.  It is even stranger to try and explain why you can never fully recover what was lost.  It is hard to not end up sounding like some whining, self pitying weirdo who wants to blame his or her problems on some church. 

      Granted, ex members can fall into the trap of self pity.  On the other hand, it would be silly to try and minimize what this religious organization does to people, and how it wrecks their lives.  The loss is real.  Loss of career, education, once in a life time opportunities, friends, relationship with family, and other such things, is very real as a result of being a part of Wayman's World.  It is the loss of living a free life. 

      We gave up our freedom to follow Wayman and his leaders because they convinced us that the God of the Bible wanted us to do that.  We found out years later that they were just using people to attain a high lifestyle within that religous world.  Men who would have amounted to nothing in the real world were "powerful" men in Wayman's World.  Men and women who would have been successful in the real world were enslaved to these leaders, and sacrificed their own potential to build "the kingdom." 

      Once someone leaves that religious world, and are completely disowned by them, then they can see all of this.  That is one of the aspects of the whole experience that is so hard.  You realize that in the end you were indeed what Wayman says: a human resource.  And now there is no way to get back all of the years, the effort, the energy, the devotion, and the money that you invested in Wayman's dream world. 

      Some try to rationalize and say it wasn't all bad.  Well, nothing is all bad.  There have been men who were in prisoner of war camps who will talk about some positive things that they took away from that experience.  Yet, most would skip out on that experience, given the choice.  It is the same with Wayman's World.  Almost always, a person would have been infinitely better off if they had never been ensnared by Wayman and his henchmen.  Wayman and his top leaders have benefited through the destruction of other people's lives.

      The fellowship factor in people's lives is akin to catching some disease that really messes up your life.  At a time of vulnerability the fellowship enters your life and does some serious damage.  I suppose that people should be vaccinated against such destructive religions.  Perhaps we could better educate people as to the potential of these types of religions really messing up people's minds and lives.  

      Shalom
      Ken
       

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/ 

       

    • John Doe
      Ken ,I have been doing some research to find out Pastors who have left pH,if they are succeeding in their ministries and starting new churches under the right
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 3, 2010
        Ken ,I have been doing some research to find out Pastors who have left pH,if they are succeeding in their ministries and starting new churches under the right doctrinal guidelines.I have noted that many have fallen under the "Shepherding Movement" in which the PH house called covering and accountability (unbalanced of course) many have run under the wings of Mitchel's acquaintances in the early days,that he claims are enemies or rebels because they wouldn't join his control."Fellowship".To just fall under control of another .....I don't get it...possibly gave them position quickly?? any feed back


         
        --- On Mon, 3/1/10, kenhaining777 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        From: kenhaining777 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse] The Fellowship Factor in People's Lives
        To: slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 3:18 PM



        I sometimes muse over the fellowship factor in people's lives. 

        It is intriguing to contemplate how different someone's life would have been if they had never encountered the religious plague, which I affectionately call Wayman's World.  Depending on how intensely involved someone became with that religious world, and how long they stayed in it, the course of their lives was altered to varying degrees. 

        In my case, my life would have been completely different.  Had I not gotten entangled in that low level religion of Wayman's, I would not have married the woman I married, I would have almost certainly gotten my PhD, I would have continued my study of astrology, and a host of other things.  Many things were aborted in my life that could never be regained.  The simple fact of the matter is that I suffered loss of what I would call life itself. 

        It is sad in a free society that people can still become enslaved by something like religion.  Instead of making good, healthy choices concerning the direction of their lives, they let some religion, and religious leaders, tell them what they should be investing their time, energy, devotion, and money in. 

        In the case of Wayman's World, people were diverted from living truly productive and fulfilling lives into building an imaginary "kingdom," which was supposed to be the "kingdom of God on Earth."  In reality, they were building Wayman's kingdom, which is nothing more than a religious society in which Wayman is king, and has everything set up for his pleasure.  That world completely fills his desire to be a religious dictator, to have everyone in that world in submission to him, and to allow him to live like a wealthy CEO.  For the people who build that kingdom, however, it is a destructive diversion that drains them of their own lives.

        It is strange to try and explain to someone, who has no familiarity with anything like Wayman's World, why you would need to recover from being part of a church group.  It is even stranger to try and explain why you can never fully recover what was lost.  It is hard to not end up sounding like some whining, self pitying weirdo who wants to blame his or her problems on some church. 

        Granted, ex members can fall into the trap of self pity.  On the other hand, it would be silly to try and minimize what this religious organization does to people, and how it wrecks their lives.  The loss is real.  Loss of career, education, once in a life time opportunities, friends, relationship with family, and other such things, is very real as a result of being a part of Wayman's World.  It is the loss of living a free life. 

        We gave up our freedom to follow Wayman and his leaders because they convinced us that the God of the Bible wanted us to do that.  We found out years later that they were just using people to attain a high lifestyle within that religous world.  Men who would have amounted to nothing in the real world were "powerful" men in Wayman's World.  Men and women who would have been successful in the real world were enslaved to these leaders, and sacrificed their own potential to build "the kingdom." 

        Once someone leaves that religious world, and are completely disowned by them, then they can see all of this.  That is one of the aspects of the whole experience that is so hard.  You realize that in the end you were indeed what Wayman says: a human resource.  And now there is no way to get back all of the years, the effort, the energy, the devotion, and the money that you invested in Wayman's dream world. 

        Some try to rationalize and say it wasn't all bad.  Well, nothing is all bad.  There have been men who were in prisoner of war camps who will talk about some positive things that they took away from that experience.  Yet, most would skip out on that experience, given the choice.  It is the same with Wayman's World.  Almost always, a person would have been infinitely better off if they had never been ensnared by Wayman and his henchmen.  Wayman and his top leaders have benefited through the destruction of other people's lives.

        The fellowship factor in people's lives is akin to catching some disease that really messes up your life.  At a time of vulnerability the fellowship enters your life and does some serious damage.  I suppose that people should be vaccinated against such destructive religions.  Perhaps we could better educate people as to the potential of these types of religions really messing up people's minds and lives.  

        Shalom
        Ken
         

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/ 

         




      • kenhaining777
        John Doe said: [Ken ,I have been doing some research to find out Pastors who have left pH,if they are succeeding in their ministries and starting new churches
        Message 3 of 4 , May 8, 2010
          John Doe said:

          [Ken ,I have been doing some research to find out Pastors who have left pH,if they are succeeding in their ministries and starting new churches under the right doctrinal guidelines.I have noted that many have fallen under the "Shepherding Movement" in which the PH house called covering and accountability (unbalanced of course) many have run under the wings of Mitchel's acquaintances in the early days,that he claims are enemies or rebels because they wouldn't join his control."Fellowship".To just fall under control of another .....I don't get it...possibly gave them position quickly?? any feed back]

          I have no actual statistics, but it seems to me that about 80% of those pastors who leave the fellowship, and who were making a decent living as pastors, join one of the groups that have broken off.  The two main ones are Praise Chapel, and Ron Jones' Victory World Outreach.  Greg Johnson rejoined Foursquare, and Mike Mastin joined the Australian Assemblies of God.  Some have told me that if you go to Praise Chapel's website that it reads like an old conference flier. 

          The easiest thing for most of these guys to do is to join up with one of these groups as they are doing mostly the same stuff that was done in the fellowship.  They teach a lot of the core doctrines, particularly those that relate to church attendance and tithes, i.e., giving money.  Most of the time the main difference between these groups and Wayman's fellowship is that they do not have the media rules that force people in "ministry" not to have a TV or go to the movies, etc.  Some of them allow women preachers.  Mostly they are somewhat altered versions of the Wayman O. fellowship. 

          One man, who had gotten out in the 1990 exodus, who I talked to back in 1994 when I got out, was very honest with me about this issue.  He told me that one of the main reasons he kept pastoring was that it was the easiest way for him to make a living.  He went with Praise Chapel, and managed to keep his church from being completely torn apart by Wayman's tactics.  He even survived getting divorced, and remarried, while he was pastoring.  He is relatively successful today.

          I had the opportunity to hook up with either Ron Jones or Praise Chapel, but I decided I wanted to move away from some of the doctrines they still embraced.  Unfortunately, it is hard to make a real transition and still keep the church together.  Mine pretty much fell apart, and I closed it about 15 months after I left the fellowship.  As I changed my beliefs after closing the church, it was no longer an option for me to continue pastoring, unless I wanted to completely fake it.  I just wasn't into that. 

          Many did join these other groups, however, and some survived and even thrived.  A lot of others tried to make in those groups, but eventually faded out.  Most pastors who were working a job just got completely out of the pastoring game.  The working/burnout pastors generally end up in redirection, and then end up leaving the church. 

          What is strange to watch is these guys getting up on stage and preaching about the rebels, and then when they themselves leave the fellowship they look up the men they blasted from the pulpit.  I am sure that David Vicary is in touch with his former fellowship pastor, Mike Mastin, whom Vicary replaced.  I remember at one point, some of the guys who left in 2000/2001 formed a new group called, New Destiny.  That pretty much died out, and the members are all over the place these days. Tommy Alvarez, who has a former fellowship church in El Centro, California, holds a conference that a some of the ex pastors and ex leaders of the fellowship attend.

          I suppose we could do something like People Magazine does, Where Are They Now? for ex pastors and ex leaders of the fellowship.  I would love to read it, myself.  And I suppose I would be in there.  I could pose at a desk with piles of astrology books on it.B-) 

          Live Long and Prosper
          Ken


           
        • Borismbuster
          FYI Mastin now attends Vicary s church. ... left ... churches ... fallen ... wings ... enemies ... those ... as ... ones ... of ... of ... in ... the ... in
          Message 4 of 4 , May 9, 2010
            FYI Mastin now attends Vicary's church.




            --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777
            <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > John Doe said:
            >
            > [Ken ,I have been doing some research to find out Pastors who have
            left
            > pH,if they are succeeding in their ministries and starting new
            churches
            > under the right doctrinal guidelines.I have noted that many have
            fallen
            > under the "Shepherding Movement" in which the PH house called covering
            > and accountability (unbalanced of course) many have run under the
            wings
            > of Mitchel's acquaintances in the early days,that he claims are
            enemies
            > or rebels because they wouldn't join his control."Fellowship".To just
            > fall under control of another .....I don't get it...possibly gave them
            > position quickly?? any feed back]
            >
            > I have no actual statistics, but it seems to me that about 80% of
            those
            > pastors who leave the fellowship, and who were making a decent living
            as
            > pastors, join one of the groups that have broken off. The two main
            ones
            > are Praise Chapel, and Ron Jones' Victory World Outreach. Greg Johnson
            > rejoined Foursquare, and Mike Mastin joined the Australian Assemblies
            of
            > God. Some have told me that if you go to Praise Chapel's website that
            > it reads like an old conference flier.
            >
            > The easiest thing for most of these guys to do is to join up with one
            of
            > these groups as they are doing mostly the same stuff that was done in
            > the fellowship. They teach a lot of the core doctrines, particularly
            > those that relate to church attendance and tithes, i.e., giving money.
            > Most of the time the main difference between these groups and Wayman's
            > fellowship is that they do not have the media rules that force people
            in
            > "ministry" not to have a TV or go to the movies, etc. Some of them
            > allow women preachers. Mostly they are somewhat altered versions of
            the
            > Wayman O. fellowship.
            >
            > One man, who had gotten out in the 1990 exodus, who I talked to back
            in
            > 1994 when I got out, was very honest with me about this issue. He told
            > me that one of the main reasons he kept pastoring was that it was the
            > easiest way for him to make a living. He went with Praise Chapel, and
            > managed to keep his church from being completely torn apart by
            Wayman's
            > tactics. He even survived getting divorced, and remarried, while he
            was
            > pastoring. He is relatively successful today.
            >
            > I had the opportunity to hook up with either Ron Jones or Praise
            Chapel,
            > but I decided I wanted to move away from some of the doctrines they
            > still embraced. Unfortunately, it is hard to make a real transition
            and
            > still keep the church together. Mine pretty much fell apart, and I
            > closed it about 15 months after I left the fellowship. As I changed my
            > beliefs after closing the church, it was no longer an option for me to
            > continue pastoring, unless I wanted to completely fake it. I just
            > wasn't into that.
            >
            > Many did join these other groups, however, and some survived and even
            > thrived. A lot of others tried to make in those groups, but eventually
            > faded out. Most pastors who were working a job just got completely out
            > of the pastoring game. The working/burnout pastors generally end up in
            > redirection, and then end up leaving the church.
            >
            > What is strange to watch is these guys getting up on stage and
            preaching
            > about the rebels, and then when they themselves leave the fellowship
            > they look up the men they blasted from the pulpit. I am sure that
            David
            > Vicary is in touch with his former fellowship pastor, Mike Mastin,
            whom
            > Vicary replaced. I remember at one point, some of the guys who left in
            > 2000/2001 formed a new group called, New Destiny. That pretty much
            died
            > out, and the members are all over the place these days. Tommy Alvarez,
            > who has a former fellowship church in El Centro, California, holds a
            > conference that a some of the ex pastors and ex leaders of the
            > fellowship attend.
            >
            > I suppose we could do something like People Magazine does, Where Are
            > They Now? for ex pastors and ex leaders of the fellowship. I would
            love
            > to read it, myself. And I suppose I would be in there. I could pose at
            > a desk with piles of astrology books on it. [B-)]
            >
            > Live Long and Prosper
            > Ken
            >
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