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Re: How not to build a church.

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  • miguel_hayworth
    hey you guys can you check my new halloween page out and give me feed back, thanks for your support
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 31, 2007
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      hey you guys can you check my new halloween page out and give me feed
      back, thanks for your support

      http://www.firstplumbline.net/html/thepottershouseHalloween.html

      Do look at our photo`s section.

      Miguel.

      --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "naboth675"
      <naboth675@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Miguel.
      >
      > I will hopefully be up and running on the internet again every soon. I
      > won't promise anything though given previous setbacks.
      >
      > God bless you...naboth675
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, miguel hayworth
      > <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi please feel free to send me any articles you have, that you would
      > like on the web site I hope all is well.
      > >
      > > Miguel Hayworth
      > > Director/First Plumbline Apologetics
      > > http://www.firstplumbline.net
      > > http://firstplumbline.blogspot.com
      > >
      > > naboth675 naboth675@ wrote:
      > > I read a bit about church growth and revivals ect and one of the
      > comments that got me thinking was concerning successful evangelism and
      > reaching out to the local community. It seems that there is a wealth of
      > evidencve showing that churches that are successful in this area target
      > people who relate to the type of person found in the church or the
      > church adapts to the type of people they are trying to reach. Think
      > about that in the light of the evangelistic endevours we were sucked
      > into in the fellowship.
      > > This normally consisted of yelling at anyone and everyone
      > indisciminately. Badgering any poor passer by with your version of the
      > truth and pushing for an immediate decision. Then we have the concerts.
      > Most concert flyers give little true indication of the type of music
      > being performed and and so the people who come are largely unimpressed.
      > If they should leave before the dreaded altar call however they may be
      > followed outside by a wayman zealot who wants to harrass them back in.
      > The altar call is usually designed to emotionally blast them into the
      > middle of next week and the long term fruit of this is unspectacular to
      > say the least.
      > > Then there are the film outreaches. Why? Why would any logical person
      > living in the 90's with access to the internet, youtube, cable tv and
      > myriads of channels to watch want to sit in a dirty small shop front
      > watching a 70's tv with a vhs film starrring nobody you've ever heard of
      > attepting to act. Sheer boredom perhaps. Dragged out by an incessant
      > disciple more likely.
      > > The arrogance of their strict adherence to fellowship pattern has all
      > but killed off many fellowship churches in their infancy {not a bad
      > thing me thinks!} The exception to this was the Prescott church where a
      > reluctant Wayman Mitchell let the young hippy converts do gospel
      > versions of their kind of music. This struck a chord with many {excuse
      > the pun} and explains some of their early success. Walthamstow gained a
      > number of talented black artists and they in turn brough in other like
      > minded people. Most U.K churches follow the Walthamstow model with
      > dismal results. {Why do they assume that rap music and ragga are going
      > to work in white middle class Norwich or rock loving Glasgow?}
      > > The other thing that seals the fate of many of these churches is their
      > refusal to adapt their worship services to suit the tastes of the people
      > they are trying to reach. This need not involve compromising basic
      > biblical principles but then EVERYTHING'S a vital principle to them. We
      > must screach in tongues, berate the people for money, beat down on folk
      > from the pulpit at every turn and a hundred other things I'm sure you'd
      > all prefer not to remember.
      > > One of the things that stands out for me about this fellowship is how
      > someone will occassionally say how great it is that whether you go to
      > conference in Perth or Prescott or London you will find the churches and
      > the people are so much the same. Thats why the Potter's House is always
      > destined to be a little cult and not a big one. Thankfully, most normal
      > people feel they just don't fit in there. The Potter's House has become
      > a victim of it's small minded pride. A crumbling monument to an
      > unbending dictator in Prescott, Arizona.
      > > regards...naboth675
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
      > >
      >
    • naboth675
      Thanks for the advice. God bless you...naboth675 ... soon. I ... hayworth ... would ... evangelism and ... wealth of ... target ... Think ... sucked ... of the
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2007
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        Thanks for the advice.

        God bless you...naboth675




        --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "Rahab "
        <rahabsplace@...> wrote:
        >
        > What's the deal? Do you need a new secure server?
        >
        > Try Laughingsquid.net if you do. Those guys are based out of San
        > Francisco. I doubt very seriously that the fellowship has any pull
        > there. :D
        >
        > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "naboth675"
        > <naboth675@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Miguel.
        > >
        > > I will hopefully be up and running on the internet again every
        soon. I
        > > won't promise anything though given previous setbacks.
        > >
        > > God bless you...naboth675
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, miguel
        hayworth
        > > <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi please feel free to send me any articles you have, that you
        would
        > > like on the web site I hope all is well.
        > > >
        > > > Miguel Hayworth
        > > > Director/First Plumbline Apologetics
        > > > http://www.firstplumbline.net
        > > > http://firstplumbline.blogspot.com
        > > >
        > > > naboth675 naboth675@ wrote:
        > > > I read a bit about church growth and revivals ect and one of the
        > > comments that got me thinking was concerning successful
        evangelism and
        > > reaching out to the local community. It seems that there is a
        wealth of
        > > evidencve showing that churches that are successful in this area
        target
        > > people who relate to the type of person found in the church or the
        > > church adapts to the type of people they are trying to reach.
        Think
        > > about that in the light of the evangelistic endevours we were
        sucked
        > > into in the fellowship.
        > > > This normally consisted of yelling at anyone and everyone
        > > indisciminately. Badgering any poor passer by with your version
        of the
        > > truth and pushing for an immediate decision. Then we have the
        concerts.
        > > Most concert flyers give little true indication of the type of
        music
        > > being performed and and so the people who come are largely
        unimpressed.
        > > If they should leave before the dreaded altar call however they
        may be
        > > followed outside by a wayman zealot who wants to harrass them
        back in.
        > > The altar call is usually designed to emotionally blast them into
        the
        > > middle of next week and the long term fruit of this is
        unspectacular to
        > > say the least.
        > > > Then there are the film outreaches. Why? Why would any logical
        person
        > > living in the 90's with access to the internet, youtube, cable tv
        and
        > > myriads of channels to watch want to sit in a dirty small shop
        front
        > > watching a 70's tv with a vhs film starrring nobody you've ever
        heard of
        > > attepting to act. Sheer boredom perhaps. Dragged out by an
        incessant
        > > disciple more likely.
        > > > The arrogance of their strict adherence to fellowship pattern
        has all
        > > but killed off many fellowship churches in their infancy {not a
        bad
        > > thing me thinks!} The exception to this was the Prescott church
        where a
        > > reluctant Wayman Mitchell let the young hippy converts do gospel
        > > versions of their kind of music. This struck a chord with many
        {excuse
        > > the pun} and explains some of their early success. Walthamstow
        gained a
        > > number of talented black artists and they in turn brough in other
        like
        > > minded people. Most U.K churches follow the Walthamstow model with
        > > dismal results. {Why do they assume that rap music and ragga are
        going
        > > to work in white middle class Norwich or rock loving Glasgow?}
        > > > The other thing that seals the fate of many of these churches
        is their
        > > refusal to adapt their worship services to suit the tastes of the
        people
        > > they are trying to reach. This need not involve compromising basic
        > > biblical principles but then EVERYTHING'S a vital principle to
        them. We
        > > must screach in tongues, berate the people for money, beat down
        on folk
        > > from the pulpit at every turn and a hundred other things I'm sure
        you'd
        > > all prefer not to remember.
        > > > One of the things that stands out for me about this fellowship
        is how
        > > someone will occassionally say how great it is that whether you
        go to
        > > conference in Perth or Prescott or London you will find the
        churches and
        > > the people are so much the same. Thats why the Potter's House is
        always
        > > destined to be a little cult and not a big one. Thankfully, most
        normal
        > > people feel they just don't fit in there. The Potter's House has
        become
        > > a victim of it's small minded pride. A crumbling monument to an
        > > unbending dictator in Prescott, Arizona.
        > > > regards...naboth675
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows.
        Tryit now.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • naboth675
        I ve just looked at it. Simple, clear and an explicit indictment of what the Potter s House is doing. This is the kind of thing I want to see on the net. I
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I 've just looked at it. Simple, clear and an explicit indictment of
          what the Potter's House is doing. This is the kind of thing I want to
          see on the net.

          I knew quite a few of the people down in Walthamstow. It was clear
          even then that they enjoyed going to extremes to shock. Some of those
          guys have an unhealthy obsession with guns and violence. Their
          response to the easter protest shows that my view is more than mere
          opinion. Top marks for reporting on their bizarre and unbalanced
          practices.

          God bless you...naboth675



          --- In
          slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "miguel_hayworth"
          <miguel_hayworth@...> wrote:
          >
          > hey you guys can you check my new halloween page out and give me
          feed
          > back, thanks for your support
          >
          > http://www.firstplumbline.net/html/thepottershouseHalloween.html
          >
          > Do look at our photo`s section.
          >
          > Miguel.
          >
          > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "naboth675"
          > <naboth675@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Miguel.
          > >
          > > I will hopefully be up and running on the internet again every
          soon. I
          > > won't promise anything though given previous setbacks.
          > >
          > > God bless you...naboth675
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, miguel
          hayworth
          > > <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi please feel free to send me any articles you have, that you
          would
          > > like on the web site I hope all is well.
          > > >
          > > > Miguel Hayworth
          > > > Director/First Plumbline Apologetics
          > > > http://www.firstplumbline.net
          > > > http://firstplumbline.blogspot.com
          > > >
          > > > naboth675 naboth675@ wrote:
          > > > I read a bit about church growth and revivals ect and one of the
          > > comments that got me thinking was concerning successful
          evangelism and
          > > reaching out to the local community. It seems that there is a
          wealth of
          > > evidencve showing that churches that are successful in this area
          target
          > > people who relate to the type of person found in the church or the
          > > church adapts to the type of people they are trying to reach.
          Think
          > > about that in the light of the evangelistic endevours we were
          sucked
          > > into in the fellowship.
          > > > This normally consisted of yelling at anyone and everyone
          > > indisciminately. Badgering any poor passer by with your version
          of the
          > > truth and pushing for an immediate decision. Then we have the
          concerts.
          > > Most concert flyers give little true indication of the type of
          music
          > > being performed and and so the people who come are largely
          unimpressed.
          > > If they should leave before the dreaded altar call however they
          may be
          > > followed outside by a wayman zealot who wants to harrass them
          back in.
          > > The altar call is usually designed to emotionally blast them into
          the
          > > middle of next week and the long term fruit of this is
          unspectacular to
          > > say the least.
          > > > Then there are the film outreaches. Why? Why would any logical
          person
          > > living in the 90's with access to the internet, youtube, cable tv
          and
          > > myriads of channels to watch want to sit in a dirty small shop
          front
          > > watching a 70's tv with a vhs film starrring nobody you've ever
          heard of
          > > attepting to act. Sheer boredom perhaps. Dragged out by an
          incessant
          > > disciple more likely.
          > > > The arrogance of their strict adherence to fellowship pattern
          has all
          > > but killed off many fellowship churches in their infancy {not a
          bad
          > > thing me thinks!} The exception to this was the Prescott church
          where a
          > > reluctant Wayman Mitchell let the young hippy converts do gospel
          > > versions of their kind of music. This struck a chord with many
          {excuse
          > > the pun} and explains some of their early success. Walthamstow
          gained a
          > > number of talented black artists and they in turn brough in other
          like
          > > minded people. Most U.K churches follow the Walthamstow model with
          > > dismal results. {Why do they assume that rap music and ragga are
          going
          > > to work in white middle class Norwich or rock loving Glasgow?}
          > > > The other thing that seals the fate of many of these churches
          is their
          > > refusal to adapt their worship services to suit the tastes of the
          people
          > > they are trying to reach. This need not involve compromising basic
          > > biblical principles but then EVERYTHING'S a vital principle to
          them. We
          > > must screach in tongues, berate the people for money, beat down
          on folk
          > > from the pulpit at every turn and a hundred other things I'm sure
          you'd
          > > all prefer not to remember.
          > > > One of the things that stands out for me about this fellowship
          is how
          > > someone will occassionally say how great it is that whether you
          go to
          > > conference in Perth or Prescott or London you will find the
          churches and
          > > the people are so much the same. Thats why the Potter's House is
          always
          > > destined to be a little cult and not a big one. Thankfully, most
          normal
          > > people feel they just don't fit in there. The Potter's House has
          become
          > > a victim of it's small minded pride. A crumbling monument to an
          > > unbending dictator in Prescott, Arizona.
          > > > regards...naboth675
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows.
          Tryit now.
          > > >
          > >
          >
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